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Patticus

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The console did well cause it was "hacked" beyond belief. If you really look at most psp websites, polls, most people just use it for music, emulators and anything the hacking programs can do.

What a load of bollocks.

The hacking websites pol said that people use their PSP's for hacking WOW! I don't deny that a lot of people did use homebrew on the system (I wasn't one of them), but to claim that it's the sole reason for why it did as well as it did is beyond short-sighted, but to also suggest that's going to be the same fate of the Vita? Ridiculous.

And another thing I'd like to bring up.

There trying to make a concole experence on the go... and honestly in this day and age it won't work.

You're not the first person to bring this up and frankly I'm tired of putting counter argument against it, so I'm going to ask... why exactly do we not want this?

If you can get me a console experience in a handheld that can give me games the standard of Uncharted 2 and 3, why on earth would I not want that?

Can someone explain this to me? We don't want handheld games which are too good? This makes utterly no sense at all. If suddenly Nintendo said 'oh we're going to release a perfect port of Super Mario Galaxy on the DS, people wouldn't be putting down their pre-orders months in advance? Balderdash and poppycock I say!

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You're not the first person to bring this up and frankly I'm tired of putting counter argument against it, so I'm going to ask... why exactly do we not want this?

Considering how much of a port machine the 3DS was of Nintendo properties, I think the reason we don't want them is because if Sony did it we wouldn't be getting ports of Nintendo games.

Or something.

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Wow, are you serious?

http://psp.dashhacks.com/

Good enough?

What does that prove, exactly?

You can hack a Wii by sneezing on it. Does that mean most of its sales came from people buying it to hack it? Keep in mind that there was a several year period where new PSP models were unhackable, and it kept on selling well enough.

Edited by Tornado

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There is a difference between a Wii and a PSP..... a PSP is ON THE GO. Even if you hack any home concole, most are not gonna buy it to hack it. A portable, people are with it more so on the go, they fiddle around with it.

http://www.vgchartz....s=50&sort=Total

All the psp sales..... compared to ANY console, or past handhelds, those are HORRIBLE sales. There have been many.... many interviews towards Sony and they know, hacking problems caused software to tumble like rocks. (This is why the PSP's VITA memory sticks and everything is different so they cant go into computers or others devices, just VITAS) to prevent this.

You compare those games to how many PSP's are out there? Pretty terrible. All those systems with barley any games are all used for "other" reasons, mostly hacked to get movies, music, emulators and so on. Im not here to bash the games, cause I have a PSP myself and I like many games... were talking about sales here and honestly... compare software - hardware, its not showing well at all after all these years.

And another thing I'd like to bring up.

You're not the first person to bring this up and frankly I'm tired of putting counter argument against it, so I'm going to ask... why exactly do we not want this?

If you can get me a console experience in a handheld that can give me games the standard of Uncharted 2 and 3, why on earth would I not want that?

Can someone explain this to me? We don't want handheld games which are too good? This makes utterly no sense at all. If suddenly Nintendo said 'oh we're going to release a perfect port of Super Mario Galaxy on the DS, people wouldn't be putting down their pre-orders months in advance? Balderdash and poppycock I say!

For the "core" hardcore fans, most of them are going to rather play uncharted 2 whatever game it was... on a PS3 or Xbox or whatever that "full concole game experence" on a concole. There have been many, many cases where they put a 60 hour game, even a Street Fighter game from a concole onto a handheld, it never does well. People want to pick up a game, play multiplayer with there friends, or just finish a quick game or a level. Not sit there with a Vita for hours on end. I rather just sit on the sofa to play the same game with a controller thats more comfortable.

Now there are some that like it, I don't care myself cause yes they are quality great games.(I don't mind it if there on the VITA or not cause maybe even ill get one) But to the general public they don't want that and they never sell well sadly...

Edited by The Smexy Bat

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Well the PSP has also always been the "luxurious" system where as the DS was meant for kids and casual gamers. The casual gaming market is and always will be the majority of the market on the industry. Unfortunately, handheld casual gamers have been sucked up by iOS games like Angry Birds and Temple Run. Back during the PSP/DS Wars, mobile gaming wasnt as big as it was today and it threatens both systems today. Coupled with the cheapness, uniqueness, and simplicity of the 3DS I think that will come out on top cuz with every other person having a smartphone nowadays, there is only room for one real handheld and thats Nintendos cheap, fun, and affordable 3DS.

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I'm sure the Vita will probably sell well enough once a Call of Duty game is released for it, especially if there is an emphasis on online play.

The price of 3G and memory cards on this handheld is insane though. If they don't either lower the memory cards beyond what they have or lower the system price as a whole, I'll probably have to wait a bit. I mean $250 is one thing (which is super expensive in itself) but another $30 to $100 extra for a memory card is completely different. The 3DS had a problem with price and despite how powerful the Vita is not many people want to spend that kind of money.

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There is a difference between a Wii and a PSP..... a PSP is ON THE GO. Even if you hack any home concole, most are not gonna buy it to hack it. A portable, people are with it more so on the go, they fiddle around with it.

So can you explain why sales didn't completely fall off from mid-2008 to mid-2010?

For the "core" hardcore fans, most of them are going to rather play uncharted 2 whatever game it was... on a PS3 or Xbox or whatever that "full concole game experence" on a concole. There have been many, many cases where they put a 60 hour game, even a Street Fighter game from a concole onto a handheld, it never does well. People want to pick up a game, play multiplayer with there friends, or just finish a quick game or a level. Not sit there with a Vita for hours on end. I rather just sit on the sofa to play the same game with a controller thats more comfortable.

Now there are some that like it, I don't care myself cause yes they are quality great games.(I don't mind it if there on the VITA or not cause maybe even ill get one) But to the general public they don't want that and they never sell well sadly...

And yet in the sales link you provided there are 7 games in the top 10 that are full console games on the system (most of them were even rereleased on the PS2 later or were PS2 ports themselves).

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You're not the first person to bring this up and frankly I'm tired of putting counter argument against it, so I'm going to ask... why exactly do we not want this?

If you can get me a console experience in a handheld that can give me games the standard of Uncharted 2 and 3, why on earth would I not want that?

It's not a matter of tech, it's a matter of games.

The reason I play portable games is because they're condensed down to bring suitable experiences at any situation whenever I'm on the go or on a school break, something I can quickly boot up to have a quick run through and still come out satisfied. Cinematic eposes like Uncharted I'd rather play on the big TV, especially when Uncharted has always remained the same goddamn game for three installments with little to no evolution but within the technical aspects. If I have an option at home to play pretty much the same game on the big screen, you can bet your ass that I'd rather choose that over hunching down into a miniature screen and strain my neck for the next hours.

Okamiden is an example of a game on the Nintendo DS I don't like playing at all because it's pretty much an inferior version of Okami. I can't pick it up whenever I'd like and just play a bit for some quick fun because it requires a timesink.

And believe it or not, portable games that actually "feel portable" in that regard is exactly what sells the most, for good reasons too. It was perhaps the main reason PSP never did as well as it could have, as well as the fact that it never had a killer app.

Can someone explain this to me? We don't want handheld games which are too good? This makes utterly no sense at all. If suddenly Nintendo said 'oh we're going to release a perfect port of Super Mario Galaxy on the DS, people wouldn't be putting down their pre-orders months in advance? Balderdash and poppycock I say!

Lovely straw man you've got going on there. But if I had to humor you, I'd say Super Mario Galaxy would still arguably suit a portable format far better than the likes of Uncharted, if only because of how Mario's formula has always been a matter of individual challenges and levels that present the opportunity to breeze through in a matter of minutes.

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I don't know.....I mean isn't Ocarina of Time 3DS quite a long game? I mean its a port of what is considered to be the best Zelda game of all time. Its RPG-esque and boasts quite a long playtime. Yet isn't it one of the 3DS's best sellers? When Monster Hunter and Kingdom Hearts are release, both of which are typically quite long games, won't they be comparable to console games in terms of scope?

I don't know maybe I'm missing something

I don't know about you, but I want a console that can play those pick-up-and-play games easily, but also has the capability to play massive cinematic games for when I'm away from my PS3 for long periods of time (e.g on an aeroplane, which incidentally now have AC-output sockets on them nowadays before you start on battery). Surely a console which can afford both quick time-wasters as well as deep involving "cinematic" games is a good idea.

There is nothing stopping the Vita from having those pick-up-and-play games that people keep talking about it. Absolutely nothing. Just because the Vita has more sophisticated hardware doesn't mean they it cannot have the simple games. Remember, the Vita utilises the Quad-core variant of the ARM Cortex A9 mobile processor. Smartphones happen to also be utilising the single or dual-core variants of the Cortex A9, or architecture similar to it. The new Nvidia Tegra 3 uses the Quad-core Cortex A9. The Apple A5 uses the dual core variant of the Cortex A9. So its not like its too difficult to program for, in fact mobile games developers should pretty much know how the Vita's hardware works given their experience with ARM processors.

the 3DS has Mario Kart, which is a quick, easy, fun online and local mulitplayer game. The Vita has Modnation Racers, which probably has similar functionality. Both systems have big-budget console-esque games, and I'm sure both will also have those quirky arcadey properly mobile games.

The Vita hasn't even launched outside of Japan yet and people are still writing it off because its predecessor sold poorly. That is about as stupid as writing the Wii off because the Gamecube and N64 sold poorly. If Apple Computers and the recent explosion in Smartphone sales is anything to go by, people couldn't give a flying fuck about price as long as its pretty and shiny and can act reasonably as a status symbol. Nintendo's success with hardware hasn't really been due to whats available; fans of Nintendo IP's would buy their console just for the next Mario, Metroid or Zelda regardless. No their success can mainly be attributed to their heavy-handed marketing scheme. They, with their advertises, dictated who they were aiming their product at. In the case of the Wii and DS this was the family, a yet untapped market up until then. They got the ball rolling with Wii Sports,Wii Play and Wii fit, and the developers followed suit oweing to the massive sales of the console; producing games to appeal to the members of the newly penetrated Market. It was pretty much self propagating; the more people saw the family-friendly Wii, the more they bought it, the more the publishers made family games so even more people bought it, resulting in even more family games. Same goes for the DS.

The PSP wasn't as successful, because I didn't see anywhere near as many advertises for it as I did the DS, and the advertises that were shown weren't aimed at the same people who Nintendo were aiming at. They were in the pure gamers market, and they did reasonably well, by shaking off Nintendo's once near universal handheld monopoly by gobbling up 30% and leaving Nintendo with 70% as opposed to 100%.

But that's all by-the-by. This is a new handheld generation. The mighty Nintendo and the not-so-newboy Sony have to contend with the biggest competition they've ever faced; smartphones. Smartphones rule the ultraportables and within a year will outstrip the Vita in raw power. Its a new ball-game and the same old tricks won't work, from either company. Nintendo is sticking to their guns; Nintendo IP's and pokemon up front and casual stuff following closely behind. Capitalising on the new 3D trend. Sony are sticking to their premium market, but have decided to take a leaf from Nintendo and from smartphones. They have more arcade-like games than before and still have their big guns waiting. This time with the addition of the massively popular Call of Duty at some stage, which will have an impact in the US and Europe.

It may or may not be an even fight between Sony and Nintendo, in terms of the Vita vs 3DS. Both can have whatever games Sony and the 3rd parties choose to make for them, there are no inherant limits on what either can do beyond their processing power differences. The Vita is not totally incapable of producing smaller, quicker, mobile games and doesn't necessarily have to rely exclusively on its big cinematic games.

TL;DR

The Vita may not be a massive sales phenomina. It doesn't matter. If it has games that people want to play, then it will sell. Its as simple as that. Right now the 3DS has something that people want to play; Mario Kart, so it will shift units. When something that fans of Sony products is released, then the Vita wil shift units. Early days yet.

We can talk about what games the Vita has and doesn't have in 5 years time, or whenever the next handheld is released. Right now, it has the potential to have any type of game it wants, and we can't tell of its successes or failures until it happens.

Edited by Scar

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I don't know.....I mean isn't Ocarina of Time 3DS quite a long game? I mean its a port of what is considered to be the best Zelda game of all time. Its RPG-esque and boasts quite a long playtime. Yet isn't it one of the 3DS's best sellers? When Monster Hunter and Kingdom Hearts are release, both of which are typically quite long games, won't they be comparable to console games in terms of scope?

I don't know maybe I'm missing something

I never said it had to be short, just offer enough bang for what little time you have available in the most efficient way possible. That said I don't recall ever defending Nintendo for not falling into that syndrome as well at times, it's just the fact that the PSP did it too often with way too many of it's titles.

If you ask me I'd have preferred Majora's Mask.

There is nothing stopping the Vita from having those pick-up-and-play games that people keep talking about it. Absolutely nothing.

There was also nothing stopping the PSP either, but what it managed was far from good enough. For the record I never even claimed that there was no chance it wouldn't happen, but from what I'm seeing, that's not actually happening right now, save for a few 3 hour long novelty gimmick titles.

The Vita may not be a massive sales phenomina. It doesn't matter. If it has games that people want to play, then it will sell. Its as simple as that.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way, because console sales will always determine a developer's interest in developing games. Sega were reluctant on releasing Shinobi on the 3DS due to it's unestablished base back then, and the reason for cancelled games such as MML3 and Bomberman 3DS could be attributed to lack of console sales as well.

Make no mistake, I want to love Vita because as far as capabilities go it's definitely a portable console I'd love to have. But if the 3DS and PSP has taught me anything about portables and excessive hype it's easier for me to stay cynical about an output I have no real interest in so far.

Also I'm not spelling it out as dead on arrival either. The massive essay you posted somehow seems kind of redundant and like it's trying to color that impression on me. I'm just not interested in it as of now, and neither are a lot of people.

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@Carbo

It wasn't directly aimed at you.

It was just an explation of my stance on the issue. Then it evolved into explaining what I believe contributed to Nintendo's handheld and console successes. It then once again evolved back to the original issue I was tackling.

If anything, it was aimed at people who are convinced the system will just have a bunch of cinematic games that apparently nobody wants to play on a handheld (which I don't think is true).

Meh.

Anyway, in the end the smartphone wins. If the Vita does fail, Sony still has a firm grip on the market with PSsuite, which it can make a killing off of and its own range of very capable smartphones.

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Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way, because console sales will always determine a developer's interest in developing games.

Edited by blackherox

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The Vita looks neat, but I really can't afford to shove out the money for it. I'm going to be waiting until there's a price drop, or at least some more games announced. The only one that has really caught my eye so far is Gravity Rush.

I usually regret buying videogame consoles at launch. Even the 3DS, which I love, has had a price drop and a few special editions by now.

Edited by Solly

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I've cancelled my order for the Vita, not because I don't want it, but because by Feb. 15, I won't have a job. Who knows, I've been putting in extra hours to be able to get the thing but eh, I don't really see that happening.

But I really want Gravity Rush, its the Vita game I want more than anything else. sad.png It just caught my eye, the gravity gimmick for some reason interests me so much. I might just buy the damn game by itself and get the Vita at a later date :P.

Edited by Silencer226

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If anything, the PS Vita shouldn't be too concerned with smartphones. All in all the 3DS is it's main competitor in the dedicated handheld market, yes, the smartphones have more traffic flowing to them but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. This discussion brings me up to one an IoS developer had a few months back about smartphone markets. (Note: Though the quote mostly refers to the DS, I think the PSVita has some relevance in it.)

Now lets see if I can get quotes to work...

Of course, superior does not necessarily mean that it will have the most traffic in comparison to its competitors. Smartphones will inevitably have more people using them than Dedicated Video Game Handhelds, let me explain why:

- Smartphones are penetrating the market because they provide an important function for society-- communication. Because of this, you'll find that a large number of people-- of just about every age group-- will have Smartphones for a variety of reasons.

- Consumers, when provided something for free, are often drawn to try it out-- even if they ordinarily wouldn't have! The number of "sales" of free software are not indicative of actual interest in the product-- many would not have bothered to download it even if it charged a miniscule amount! For example, I saw Angry Birds for free on the Android Market. I downloaded it and started it up once-- I found the game rather boring and deleted it shortly thereafter. However, they still count me in their listing of people who "bought" Angry Birds.

- Not only are people drawn to try something out with the $0.00 price tag, but kids or people with no spare money to spend on games likely use these to pass time. However, if they have no money to spend on games, they wouldn't have been investing in any game regardless.

Comparing the revenue of Smartphone games making profit via ads to Dedicated Video Game Handhelds that make profit on the sale of the game is akin to a comparison of apples and oranges. The recent articles on this subject make it seem like these games are "stealing" profit from Dedicated Video Game Handhelds, when the reality is that they are just a new market altogether. In a sense, when you play these games, you are "working" for the developer to bring them ad revenue. Like I mentioned earlier, consumers are drawn to try out free products, and the developers of these games are cashing in on it through ads. They are not comparable because you can not gauge the consumer's level of interest on the revenue of an ad-based Smartphone game, but you can do so for games developed for Dedicated Video Game Handhelds.

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Sample PS Vita at all 600 GAME, Gamestation stores

http://www.computera...station-stores/

I'll have to give it a go at one of my local stores.

Sony bundles 3G Vita with free memory card, online time

http://www.computera...rd-online-time/

Great news for those picking up the 3G & Wi-Fi model. If only they could bundle one with the Wi-Fi only model, which is the one I'm getting.

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I got to play with Sony's new toy today.

Went into Game and they had their display all set up, so I had a little play on it. First thing I noticed was that the interface is VERY responsive and the PS home menu is very fast and smooth, much quicker than my PSP's XMB and even faster than my PS3's XMB.

I was able to play two demos on it. Now I don't know if the demos are on a disk or if they're installed directly onto either a memory card or the demo Vita itself. If it's a disk, then it may explain the problem I had with Wipeout, if it's on the unit or a memory card then if it's not old code, it may need a patch at some point for the loading times.

Wipeout *random number here*

The first thing about Wipeout that I thought was... Fucking hell the loading times! I hope all the games are not like this. The loading times on Wipeout are long, whilst actually getting to the title screen wasn't too bad, waiting for a stage to load up took a long time.

When the stage did load up, wow, you can't imagine how good the Vita looks until you see it, the tracks, the ships everything just looks stunning. The ship controlled almost exactly like it did in Wipeout HD on the playstation 3, controls were very responsive and at times I forgot I was playing the Vita and felt like it was Wipeout HD since it's pretty much a portable version of that game.

The next game I played was Little Deviants

This is that game where you use the rear touchscreen to manipulate the environment to make your character move. Unlike Wipeout, the loading times were practically gone, game loaded quickly as did the stage itself.

Main thing about this game... christ it was difficult, well maybe because I'd not ever used a control scheme like it, but it reminded me a lot of some of the more challenging stages for the original Monkey Ball. This is definately going to be a game for those who have fond memories of the Monkey Ball series and who are looking for a challenge. The stages are quite short, but the difficulty makes up for it, I suspect in later stages there won't be safety barriers on the edge of the play space and it'll add to the challenge.

As for using the rear pad... it felt alright. It took a little bit to get used to it since I'd never used an interface like it before, but after about a few min I got the hang of it. the rear pad itself is very responsive and accurate can't really bring any complaints against it other than my own 'owww it's something new and different, I have to learn something new' mentality.

I won't do a usual overal impressions because theres more I want to see it do before I make my mind up fully, but it does look like it's going to be an amazing system from what I saw, you really don't have an idea just how powerful and impressive this machine is until you see it.

Something else I also noticed, considering the graphical output this thing has... the handheld was quite cool, there was no obvious 'hot points' on it and the weight was also quite good too (maybe about the same as a PSP?).

There is one complaint I do have with the design... although I suspect this is to do with the design of the display case it was stuck in. The right Analogue stick feels like it should be moved more to the left, when playing Wipeout I kept catching it and it changed my view of the race...

However... I then discovered you could pull the Vita out of the machine so I held it more like I would if I had it at home, this solved the issue of catching my thumb against the right analogue stick. After I did this I didn't catch my thumb on it again. So I suspect the problem was being caused by the angle the vita is placed in the display case. If you do play one in the store display case, pull it out as far as it'll go so you can adjust your grip on it.

But from what I played and saw from it... it looks like it's going to be a pretty cool thing.

Edited by Hogfather

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Wipeout looks cool, but the franchise wasn't the same once they stopped using The Designers Republic (their last game was Wip3out). Since then, it's just been the dev team emulating their style, which is pretty lame.

I saw the little game cases last weekend, they're so cute! Like baby blu-rays.

Edited by Barry the Nomad

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