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mikeblastdude

Where's the love for Sonic Advance 3?

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on a note thats not part of the argument before.....

from the original post, I definitely agree with the team thing being a good idea and seeing it in later games. it took me a while to figure out amy and knuckles's down + b movees which were awesome!

I think its the fact that i spent hours and hours on this game how old was i... like 13? i just loved listening to it and i felt it was a hard game, but it dodnt matter how many times i got pitted, or spiked in the special stages... the game somehow made me keep trying, finishing it, i revisited it and finished it again, because i wanted to refind all the chao :D

I personally found it a great game. i think its really interesting how there is such a variety and scale between opinions on this game. makes for a good discussion..(without member bashing)

by the way, i never noticed how many pits there were in this game untill someone mentioned it here... its totally true, there are a LOT of them!!

Edited by Naysu

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How so? your just being stupid, and what i said is the truth.

Let's go over this "truth," then:

the only ones that hate the games are the ones who suck ass at it plain and simple as that.

Incorrect. I think you'll find my saves of all of the Sonic Advance titles to be 100% completed.

The advance series was a different spin on the sidescroller sonic games

Incorrect. The original Advance was a carbon copy of Sonic 2 design sensibilities, and Sonic Advance 3 was a lazy redesign of Sonic Advance 2. The only truly different game is the second one.

some sonic fans just don't appreciate that,

On the contrary. One of my favorite games in the series for "pick up and play" fun is Advance 2. It is usually even the first game I try when testing a new GBA emulator.

they go on and on about so called "bad level design," ect;

It would probably help if the game didn't have bad level design.

but just won't admit they suck at it, typical behavior/attitiude.

Ah, been quite a while since I heard this. I miss hearing such nonsense.

The game got good scores, so that's all that really matters

Yes. In this time of strife for the Sonic franchise, the only truly important thing that mattered was a good Metacritic score. Nevermind if the typical review for the game was trash, or the actual quality of the game. Scores are where it is at.

So, yeah, not an awful lot "truth" in your initial post. And, honestly, this is pretty depressing...

Hey, let's play the logical fallacy game!

Do as you wish, the truth is the truth :rolleyes:

"Of course what I said was accurate. I said it."

1.) Sega didn't lend you the task of making sdv3, and

"Let's See You Do Better"

2.) you aren't the ones with the vision of how you wanted sdv3 to be/designing the levels/turn out, Dimps were.

"The developers did it, so it must be right."

And besides, i'm pretty sure the fans that liked the game out weighs the fans that don't and that's all that really matters, is that sega made a profit.

Quality by Popular Vote.

I will say that I am quite impressed with your ability to shove so many into such a short post.

Where is Tornado? Certainly not on SSMB.

Edited by Tornado

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But enough merriment:

That's another thing that's wrong with this fanbase, is that some people just try to find every little flaw within the game's and complain about it, i wish people like that would just disappear.

You know what is worse? The people who stick their fingers in their ears and shout at everyone else because they refuse to acknowledge those flaws exist.

They must have sucked at the game, cause there is no glicthes that's like sonic 06 to make you fail, there are no glicthes to make you fail really, its all on your own merit.

I'm playing Sunset Hill for the first time. I hit a speed booster. Which sends me into another speed booster. Which sends me into a loop. Which sends me into a spring. Which sends me into a ramp. Which sends me directly into a spike hazard. Which I take damage from and fall backwards into a bottomless pit. Now, exactly what part of that process is my fault? Because if I'm legitimately doing something wrong, feel free to inform me, because it happens all the damn time in the game (Unleashed as well, but that is a topic for another day).

There are some thats trying to find excuses to say the game sucks.

Than it is fantastic that it has so many to choose from. And I'm particularly interested in your thought process, because you've immediately started targeting people who mentioned the poor level design even though there are so many other problems with the game that were also reciprocated (for the most part) by people other than me.

Any of you can say how the level design should be etc, but it doesn't make you right cause

It does, actually. Cheap level design, whether you can put up with it or not (and there games that I enjoy that I do put up with it, like Sonic 2 SMS), is an objective problem.

You can't really point out flaws in what i said, cause it's true, it's his and anyone else's opinion that the game sucks, including mine that said it is good.

I explained my opinion. You came in here and played the "stop sucking so much" card. You haven't expressed any worthwhile opinion whatsoever. You see, I disagree with the OP, and basically anyone for that matter who gives this game the time of day. But I recognize their right to the opinion they hold. Because they actually expressed opinions. They didn't bulldoze their way into this thread, say that anyone who hates the game must suck at it, and then bulldoze back out.

And i can careless of what the hell tornado says, at the end of the day it's his opinion, no matter who says otherwise,

It is my opinion. And several other people in this thread were able to respect that opinion. So what is your excuse?

learn to tell a difference between a decent game and a bad game, sonic 06 was a bad game.

Learn to the the difference between a good game and a well-programmed game.

So he can type a 10 page essay for all i care, everything he says and feels is still gonna be moot,

Ah, more respect.

not only that, i'm not gonna waste my time arguing with the kid.

Watch out. Internet tough guy on the loose!

I really don't care what you "repeat" cause like i said its the truth
I'm not really complaning just stating the truth really,

I'd still like to see this "truth" that you speak of.

And when i say "so called fans," i'm not talking bout that "true sonic fan" bullshit cause there is no such thing as a "true fan" your either a fan or your not, i'm talking about the ones that claim there sonic's fan yet does shit like that, cause i can tell ya now, that ain't no fan.

I'm an avid fan of the Gran Turismo series. I think Gran Turismo 5 is a terrible game. Absolutely dreadful, with terrible design decisions and absolutely awful quality standards. And yet, I'm still pretty obviously a fan of the series because I am a fucking fan of the series. I'm a member of a Gran Turismo message board (like I am for this board). I pay attention to Gran Turismo news (like I do for the Sonic series). And I still regularly play the games in the series that I do like. I don't need to fellate Sony every time they release a GT game just because they release a game, and I sure as shit don't need to extend the same courtesy to Sega every time they release a Sonic game.

And mods, feel free to lock this account if it is against the rules. I simply wasn't sure of any other way to get around the quote limit.

Edited by Tornado Again

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^Best first post ever.

I have nothing nice to say about this game, but it has some great Special Stage music, as (almost) always.

Oh c'mon, Sean. This thread was made for you to rant. You know you want to. Let it rip, man!

I can't wait to see Phos rip this thread to shreds and sends it to the abyss.

My opinion of this game...ugh. I hated it. I thought the team thing was unnecessary as hell and only limited the characters. This game could have had truly different characters, but no. They had to enable certain abilities through a forced partner gameplay. If they just gave the character all the abilities in the first place, it could have worked out, but I imagine that there aren't enough buttons...

Level design was kind of clunky as well. It just wasn't a great Sonic game and it didn't have anything that I could call enjoyable about it. It was meh to infuriating at times which is not a good thing. Atleast Sonic Unleashed gave me that thrill and challenge at one time.

Edited by turbojet

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And mods, feel free to lock this account if it is against the rules. I simply wasn't sure of any other way to get around the quote limit.

Wait, you couldn't have made a double-post?/used other means to signify quoted content (such as bolded text)?

Oh c'mon, Sean. This thread was made for you to rant. You know you want to. Let it rip, man!

I think Tornado and some other fine individuals have already summed up my hatred for the game, but if you insist. And as a disclaimer, I completed the game 100%, even going so far as to get all of the gold medals, which was no difficult task anyway.

This game has absolutely no redeeming features. The level design is a pain in the ass, as it essentially punishes you for playing the game. Every danger I can think of pretty much amounts to either spikes, bottomless pits, bottomless pits, or hazards that you can't move out of the way in time (Chaos Angel). Repeated playthroughs of a level do not solve this, as you are subjected to the mercy of every hazard this game throws at you regardless of practice due to the sheer abundance and utter pattern-less nature of them all. This is truly a trial and error game in every sense of the word. And with an engine as piss-poor for platforming as Sonic Advance 2's (a game that I don't like, but at least can live with since it didn't try to be something it was obviously not), it's a wonder why they just didn't stick with that game's design. The best way to describe each of these levels is that they all feel like girder blocks hovering against different backdrops. In fact, trying to play any level in Sonic Advance 3 achieves the exact same thing as a human in real life running and jumping from girder to girder of an actual building: you get fucked and you die. Also, the bosses are terrible, each and every one of them.

The team system is horrible, and somehow the developers managed to produce something far more counterintuitive than even Chaotix's version. You aren't connected to your character, but the list of positives stops there. For starters, the AI reminds me of an escort mission game in which your partner is doing absolutely everything it can in its power to not stay on the same screen as you. Why is it jumping around all over the place like a goddamned superball? It's also very tedious to deal with in some of the later levels in Chaos Angel, which have floating platforms suspended in air, yet my partner finds it fit to jump ahead and trigger their drop-out before I have the chance to land, sending me to my death. Having different abilities being separated depending on which team you pick is also quite banal, and - what a surprise - every move that isn't part of the character's natural move set is pretty much shit. What use is a Tails who can't fly and instead uses tail-propelled boxing gloves to glide down at a rate faster than even Knuckles's natural gliding ability? Why can't I perform trick moves if I'm not Sonic/Tails or Amy/Cream? And none of the levels even try taking advantage of different team combinations other than the occasional isolated route that lasts for all of 15 seconds. Despite the wealth of characters and specific move sets, it is amazing how there's even less to do in this game than there is in Sonic 3 & Knuckles!

Why do the developers love making getting into Special Stages so fucking complicated? How have we gone from collecting 50 rings and searching for a big ring hidden deep within an act, to finding seven arbitrarily placed special rings and having to collect fucking Chao in each and every stage, which then allows you to search for a Special Stage key, which then allows you to finally access a Special Stage? What is the justification for this? This is complete horse dicks. And of course, seeing as how the Special Stages are so bad in this game like they are in every Sonic Advance game, there's absolutely no motivation to play them beyond the first time you win the Chaos Emeralds.

Most of the music is atrocious. The sharp quality of Nakagawa's soundtrack for Sonic Advance 2 is replaced with Sonic Battle's horrid sound scape, hampering otherwise-alright melodies with some of the worst instrumentation I have ever heard in any handheld game, which makes vanilla Game Boy games sound much more pleasant. The Green Hill remix is horrible and an utter abomination compared to its original rendition, and it elicits the same feelings I get when I hear a stupid kid on the bus who's whining all the time and their parents threatening every five minutes to spank their asses shut. With the exception of Chaos Angel, musical differences between acts of a certain zone are minimal at best, making hearing the same theme over and over across three acts a bore.

It's games like these and Kingdom Hearts II that make me ask myself not only why did I pay for these games, but why did I even bother trying to unlock everything in them? I must have been desperate to find any ounce of worth in them. Either that, or I did enjoy this game at one point, but was far too much of a fool to realize the difference between good games and Sonic Advance 3. In comparison, I think Sonic 4 is a bad game, but at least I didn't buy it.

In ways, I try to look at Sonic Advance 3 in some kind of positive light. I like to think of it as a parody of Sonic games by imposing the question upon the player: what would happen if Sonic tried doing the shit he does in video games in the real world? Sure, nothing about Sonic Advance 3's levels are reminiscent of environments in real life, but think about it. If Sonic was a fast-running hedgehog who tried to do all the fancy tricks he can up the ass, he's sure as hell not going to avoid getting run over by cars, tripping over potholes, or blasted away by police-laden spike strips. Sonic Advance 3 shows just how well the speed demon would truly fare in the real world: not very well, and with several dozen broken bones by the time he's finished. Good show, Sega.

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Wait, you couldn't have made a double-post?/used other means to signify quoted content (such as bolded text)?

I tried double posting, but it kept automatically merging it with my previous post instead (and breaking all the quotes as a result). And I don't like not using the quote tags to do quotes, because I find it really hard to read and keep track of when editing.

Where is Tornado? Certainly not on SSMB.

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It is actually exactly like that...

Then I sure as hell didn't notice it.

I understand disliking it. I wouldn't say I do, but it still baffles me how it's the only Sonic game to ever get a Golden Joystick. But I seriously don't get why you people seem to hate it so passionately. I've yet to see rants on Sonic Labyrinth this long.

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Being passionate about games is good for the soul. I am just as quick to lavish my favorite games with the utmost attention in my long, dawdling rants, and I won't hesitate to do the absolute polar opposite for something I despise.

And anyway, Sonic Labyrinth seemed okay... you know, for what it was. Certainly one of the better Game Gear games of the series, but that's not saying much.

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And as a disclaimer, I completed the game 100%, even going so far as to get all of the gold medals, which was no difficult task anyway.

Srsly? You actually felt that compelled to complete it fully.

How much else was there after getting the Chaos Emeralds? Because after I beat the final mission, I never felt bothered to play it again.

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Chaos Angel Zone was pretty much the only zone in the game I enjoyed. It may be one hell of a clusterfuck (I admit myself). But it was at least somewhat better than the other stages. That and it was one of the few zones to actually have some rather awesome music (And it needs more remixes. The only one I like so far is my own shitty little MIDI edit...). The game for the most part had good music, but Chaos Angel and Cyber Track were really the only ones I actually felt complimented the level correctly =/

I had gold medal'd the game out of boredom too really. But that was more out camping and having nothing else to do...

Edited by DarkOverord

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I understand disliking it. I wouldn't say I do, but it still baffles me how it's the only Sonic game to ever get a Golden Joystick.

Wait, really? Oh wow, I had no idea. That's pretty surprising actually, I mean I personally think that Sonic Advance 3 is a great game, but not the best by a long shot. There are definitely better Sonic games out there (and not just the classics). Still though, congrats to Sonic Advance 3 for that achievement. :D

How much else was there after getting the Chaos Emeralds? Because after I beat the final mission, I never felt bothered to play it again.

I think the Chaos Emeralds and gold medals were it really as far as extra things to do. Admittedly I was never able to get all of the Chaos Emeralds, that seventh special stage is just too hard! >_<

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I've always felt Sonic Advance 3 was rather underwhelming and uninspired, and certainly the weakest of the three Advance games, but I never really considered it bad.

Yes, the team gimmick was forced and ultimately fairly pointless (they basically shoehorned in a few breakable walls that only certain teams could break, and for me, the hub areas destroyed any flow that the game might have otherwise had. In fact, I think that was the biggest kicker, for me. In 2D Sonic, I just want to be able to start, and go from one level to the next without all this hassle in between. When they create a situation where I end up missing act 2, doing act 3 first, then having to go back and look for act 2, it's just irritating. It's okay the first time through, but absolutely awful for quick replays.

As others have said though, it just didn't really do enough different- and what it did felt forced, and took away from the experience rather than enhanced it. It was just a slower, tweaked clone of Advance 2, with messier level design.

To me, nothing about Sonic Advance 3 really stood out, is all. It was just 'there'. It's definitely one of the games that has the most stigma of 'generic obligatory Sonic sequel for the sake of making a sequel'.

But yes, Chaos Angel had absolutely epic music. :)

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Wait, really? Oh wow, I had no idea. That's pretty surprising actually, I mean I personally think that Sonic Advance 3 is a great game, but not the best by a long shot. There are definitely better Sonic games out there (and not just the classics). Still though, congrats to Sonic Advance 3 for that achievement. :D

It might have had to do with the competition that year, but I still find it hard to believe that it beat Mario & Luigi AND Metroid Zero Mission.

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Strangely enough, until very recently I never knew Sonic Advance 3 was so hated.

It's been a while since I played it but I remember liking it for the most part.

pretty much this. I had fun with it, but its a shame that Sunset Hill is quite flawed in level design with its bottomless pits. You gotta be careful when placing them in 2D because a lot of things can look the same in 2D space as opposed to 3D where its more obvious. My problem was when I was flung by a spring and missed that swaying platform I would expect the level to catch me only to die a long death in a pit. The Music is also pretty good as well(

).

Its certainly a more fun game, however, then say, well...their recent efforts. Each Advance game had its own flavor and I liked that. Sonic Advance 3, granted isn't for everyone, but for what its worth, it was a worthwhile title as the last big Sonic title on the GBA.

Edited by the blu blur

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The Music is also pretty good as well(
).

I see your Ocean Base and raise you TWINKLE SNOW!!! XD

And Cyber Track.

And Sunset Hill.

And Chaos Angel.

And Nonaggression.

And the ending credits.

And the Map Area themes.... Oh man, Cyber Track Map.... good stuff.

Damnit, every track is amazing! Where the HELL is my Sonic Advance 3 remix album!?! Get on it OC Remix!

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Damnit, every track is amazing! Where the HELL is my Sonic Advance 3 remix album!?! Get on it OC Remix!

Agreed 100%! I'd love to have some Twinkle Snow and Chaos Angel remixes on my iPod. And being the geek that I am, I'd also play them through the speakers in my car while I drive. :P

I was actually attempting a remix of Ocean Base about 2 years ago, but it didn't turn out too well. >_> (if you want a WIP version, feel free to message me) I really wish I was better at remixing game music, I'd totally be all over this soundtrack...

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oh yes the music was amaising :) sometimes i'd get in the level and not want to move and jump cause it would spoil the nice BG music.

Edited by Naysu

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Honestly, I don't understand why Sonic Advance 3 is so hated either. The partner system was almost useless and your partners would cause more annoyances than they would help, and some of the enemy placement is sort of unfair, but aside from that, I've always loved it. :/

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I love the Advance series, especially 2 and 3(more so 3). My biggest gripes is actually the shift movesets with Amy and Sonic. Slide isn't good and Amy's downwards attack bounces like Advance 2(both do that actually). Ruins the potential for momentum.

Advance 3 is probably one of the best Sonic games despite it's shortcomings(finding the chaos honestly wasn't implemented well but exploration in Sonic games is always flawed and not implemented well). The game isn't as difficult like SADV2 but it's close to it while bringing more hazards along the way. 

The complex team systems that promote replay-ability honestly makes this amazing and while the level design is more so "Track based" like Advance 2, it does very well with slowing down the game from the stupidly paced SADV2 to provide a more platformer/racer type game while retaining solid momentum throughout. In fact, the execution here fares better than Sonic3k in terms of flow. The difference between those 2 games is that Advance 3 doesn't bog the game down with cutscenes, overtly lengthy levels, too many bosses and other fluff. 

Of course, SADV3 doesn't come very close to the quality of S&K3 even in terms of level design. Although SADV3 is pretty darn good in it's own right, even better in some cases.

Oh, the partner system isn't useless, it doesn't force you to use it like Heroes.

Various levels have high benefits when certain partners are in use.

Example: Ocean Base Act 2 and 3. Use the Knuckles+Amy combination to access a shortcut on the vertical walls in the beginning of the level.

Those who say that haven't really played the game. Just barely touched it.

 

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