Thoughts On The Sonic Fanbase...

[HeroMystic]

This is adorably ignorant. I see you have...a 09 registration date?

Lulz.

Disregarding the fact you pretty much ignored the entire thread, went for the oldest strawman in the book, and quite simply didn't do the research...

Actually, I'll just ignore your attempt to look intelligent and say that the SSMB had to do a restart at March 09 due to a server drop, so everyone here has no sooner than an '09 join date. Refrain from strawmanning, especially if you're going to claim ignorance.

[Scarred Sun]

Lulz.

Disregarding the fact you pretty much ignored the entire thread, went for the oldest strawman in the book, and quite simply didn't do the research...

Actually, I'll just ignore your attempt to look intelligent and say that the SSMB had to do a restart at March 09 due to a server drop, so everyone here has no sooner than an '09 join date. Refrain from strawmanning, especially if you're going to claim ignorance.

I'm sorry that I didn't know the most recent history of The Sonic Stadium.

It all gets kind of blended together after more than decade. Keep disregarding my point concerning the nature of Sonic fandom, though.

[HeroMystic]

Keep disregarding my point concerning the nature of Sonic fandom, though.

There's nothing to disregard, it's correct.

That's what I meant by difference of opinion.

[Tweaker]

Disregarding the fact you pretty much ignored the entire thread, went for the oldest strawman in the book, and quite simply didn't do the research...

You're missing the point, bro. Scarred Sun is a community veteran; she has seen and experienced way more of the Sonic scene and its workings than you could ever pretend to. Her perspective is a little broader than yours, bro. All of this crap is overblown; Shadow didn't do anything more to the fanbase as a whole than any other game did. It's just a game. People express their opinions on them. There's no reason to look further into it because you're just looking for patterns or temporal shifts that don't exist.

The only problem with the perception of the Sonic fanbase as of late is that Jim Sterling whined and cried and for some inane reason people listened. Otherwise, the community is more or less just the same as it's been since its origins in alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog. The only difference is that it's more accessible now and encompasses newer generations of kids who get introduced to the series with later games. That's it. Shadow has nothing to do with that.

[HeroMystic]

You're missing the point, bro.

There was no point missed. I just simply targeted the attempt of a strawman which ruins credibility and personally loses my will to take a post seriously.

The only point where our opinions actually differed was when the level of intensity in terms of arguments and disagreements within the fanbase spiked, which I point to ShTH. If what she is saying is a direct response to that then I'll simply have to step away from that because I have no knowledge in that department.

[Ferno]

I'm really liking the condescending attitudes of all the people coming out of the woodwork.

[SchemingMinor]

toocoolforschool getting butthurt over Mario and then leaving? Wow. Who didn't see that coming? *scarcasm*

Sonic is cool, but not to cool to stay out of school. So stay in school:

But I digress.

You know, it's people like them that give other gamers a bad taste in the mouth about the Sonic fanbase and it's something that we could learn about. The common stereotypes about the Sonic fandom are either:

People like the above who act like childish nimrods and start things

Furries!

Obsessive furries

Did I mention furries?

and WARBARGARRBL foam at the mouth obsessive fanatics that... GREEN EYES!

The fanbase should learn to tolerate one another and accept that not every branch from the Sonic media tree will appeal to other fans. For example I have accepted that people like SatAM Robotnik, no matter how far away from game Robotnik he appears. I do not go on boards and harass others who have deferring opinions about the character.

Someone hates Mario? Sure, I know one day they will be struck down by the mighty finger of Miyamoto and wish for a swift and painful demise into the Underwhere, but I also realize that I would be a hypocrite; needless to say I don't like things other people like *cough*Sonic*cough* and I stick it up like a gentlewoman and respect their opinion. After all, I am sure there are fans on this board who wish I would get thrown inside of a rusty box of irregular scrap metal for my outspoken preference for Dr. Robotnik.

But the Sonic fanbase is just like any other vocal fanbase out there, just that people hear us more because we are louder and more numerous than other fanbases.

So where am I going with this?

Every fanbase has their assholes, it's just sad that our assholes tend to be louder than the rational fans and the outside sources seem to generalize the fanbase upon that. There are nice people within the fandom that I have met over the past decade and not everyone is sitting in a basement in a crusty, random colored hedgehog fursuit fapping to pictures of hawt Rouge on Master Emerald on Item Monitor hentai while bitching about the Pantone shade of Sonic from one game to the next.

Hell, if it wasn't for this fanbase I wouldn't have had the opportunity to meet a lot of great people like Ian Flynn and you lot of esteemed, irate, forum monkeys.

And you know what? A couple of months like now we will continue to go back at each others throats. It happens in every fandom, but we still tend to love each other. Personally I don't see the logic behind that, but I guess it's just like the live in couple who argues over things at one minute and the next are serving each other breakfast in bed.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Kintobor

[Slingerland]

^Props to Kintobor.

I'm really liking the condescending attitudes of all the people coming out of the woodwork.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This is adorably ignorant. I see you have...a 09 registration date?

Dreadknux, the very owner of these boards, also has an 09 registration date. Yet these boards have been around since 2000.

The main reason why that is the case is because the previous board got wiped out in 2008 or 09 and it took them a while to get it back online, but all data back then has been lost.

[Ferno]

Pfffffft, hahahaha... Get real, man.

Yeah...now I remember why I stay away from Retro... Because a chunk of them think they need to act like high and mighty douches like this to get points across. Eh.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Inferno

[BlazingTales]

Pfffffft, hahahaha... Get real, man.

Yeah...now I remember why I stay away from Retro... Because a chunk of them think they need to act like high and mighty douches like this to get points across. Eh.

Unnecessary roughness!

Come on, broniks, I don't think we need to start this.

On topic, the way I see the Sonic fandom can be described as follows:

Furries

Classic Elitists

The "True Sonic Fan" Brigade

Cool people who just like Sonic

And any combination of the above

We're a really big group of people. Disagreements will be made and fights will happen. But in the end it's all about a big blue hedgehog that we love.

Edited February 10, 2011 by BlazingTales

[Glenn]

On topic, the way I see the Sonic fandom can be described as follows:

Furries

I have a hard enough time as it is, working out how to be human.

Classic Elitists

They were nice videogames, for sure, but if Sonic was just four 2D platformers, there'd be no fanbase.

The "True Sonic Fan" Brigade

I can't be one of these. I like Sonic the Hedgehog (2006).

Cool people who just like Sonic

Many have described me as many things, but "cool" is not a word I hear very often, I must admit!

And any combination of the above

Help! What does that make me, if I'm none of them?!

[Marcello]

I think at times, even though we may be quite split up, the fanbase truly shines and shows some unification. Like the Sonic 4 competition stuff last year. Or from what I've heard SoS.

I dunno, maybe it's because I only really go here, but for the most part my experience with the Sonic fandom is quite good.

I can't be one of these. I like Sonic the Hedgehog (2006).

The "True Sonic" Brigade are the people who like anything Sonic and say people who don't, aren't true Sonic fans

Many have described me as many things, but "cool" is not a word I hear very often, I must admit!

Help! What does that make me, if I'm none of them?!

I think you're one of the nicest guys around, so I'd say you're part of the "Cool people who like Sonic".

[RootingForTheEmpire]

Heheh. I don't fit into any of those groups, either- I'm here for my daily dose of Eggman. Both for his villainy and character~

[BlazingTales]

The way I see it, the "cool people who like Sonic" category encompasses quite a large group of the fandom. They're just the people who enjoy any part of the Sonic franchise- be it the games, a character, a cartoon, a comic, etc.- and are generally nice, level-headed people.

I think at times, even though we may be quite split up, the fanbase truly shines and shows some unification. Like the Sonic 4 competition stuff last year. Or from what I've heard SoS.

I completely agree! Despite some expected tensions, Sonic probably has one of the most "involved", "close" fandoms out there. Look at all of amazing fans have done! Nothing all bad can accomplish things like that and make friendships so strong.

Edited February 10, 2011 by BlazingTales

[Glenn]

The "True Sonic" Brigade are the people who like anything Sonic and say people who don't, aren't true Sonic fans

Ah. Well, I'm still not one of those, even if my initial reasoning was flawed! Thanks for the clarification!

I think you're one of the nicest guys around, so I'd say you're part of the "Cool people who like Sonic".

How sweet are you?! *blushes* Thank you kindly!

I completely agree! Despite some expected tensions, Sonic probably has one of the most "involved", "close" fandoms out there. Look at all of amazing fans have done! Nothing all bad can accomplish things like that and make friendships so strong.

You're a genius, and you're absolutely right, as was Marcello in the original quote you quoted. I've heard so many horror stories about the fanbase and yet encountered so few myself... if any. I've been lucky enough to attend last year's Summer of Sonic, went to a recent Sonic London meet-up and am, overall, ridiculously proud to belong to a fanbase that has such nobility as Sonic Relief. And while I accept that all stories must have a foundation in truth, I personally have had nothing but positive experiences with Sonic fans.

S'why I count them all as individuals, and form friendships with those individuals. I fear doing them a disservice to label them as "the Sonic fanbase", as it comes with that negative stereotype of anger and argument.

[CanofEpicSauce]

and not everyone is sitting in a basement in a crusty, random colored hedgehog fursuit fapping to pictures of hawt Rouge on Master Emerald on Item Monitor hentai while bitching about the Pantone shade of Sonic from one game to the next.

And not everyone is like this guy:

[Tweaker]

Yeah...now I remember why I stay away from Retro... Because a chunk of them think they need to act like high and mighty douches like this to get points across. Eh.

Are you retarded? You're the one acting like a high and mighty douche here. I don't know what makes you think you're better than everyone else here and somehow exempt to your own flawed and ignorant judgement, but come the fuck off it. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Scarred Sun said--join dates were absolutely relevant in the point being made--and the only reason Brad replied the way he did is because despite "understanding the point," people were still throwing around words like "strawman" in reference to the basis for the argument. The only misrepresentation of his position in that case was a join date of 09 as opposed to his alleged 2005 join date, which despite being wrong does not invalidate the point being made--that she has been around a lot longer and has more perspective with which to accurately judge the actions of the community over the years. Pointing out that it was a strawman was completely pointless because it didn't change that fact; if anything, it appeared pretentious.

But you... you're a piece of work, sticking your nose into issues that don't concern you with blanket statements about an entire forum. That makes you look super fucking cool. I wish I could be just like you when I grow up!

[Emmett L. Brown]

Me, I'm a Sega Mega Drive fanboy who grew up. Of course I'm gonna stay interested in the Sonic franchise, even though ya know what? Nintendo makes better games. They make better games, and we're still never going to see Zelda, Mario or Metroid fans developing into a fanbase as diverse and energetic as the one Sonic has. People are more passionate when they root for second best.

(This spot reserved for the first person to quote this and passionately argue that Sonic isn't second best and Nintendo doesn't make better games. Go git 'em!)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But you... you're a piece of work, sticking your nose into issues that don't concern you with blanket statements about an entire forum. That makes you look super fucking cool. I wish I could be just like you when I grow up!

Um Tweaker, no offense, but I dont really think it helps you when you do the exact same thing he brought up in his previous post. He was mocking the tone the topic fell into and then criticized Brad for the way he came at him, but you really took it to the extreme and I seriously doubt he was trying to "look cool" with what he said.

Edited February 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Ferno]

Are you retarded? You're the one acting like a high and mighty douche here.

Am I now? I don't recall snapping at people like you're doing right now. You're attitude is just screaming "douche" to me.

I don't know what makes you think you're better than everyone else here and somehow exempt to your own flawed and ignorant judgement, but come the fuck off it.

When did I say I was better than people? I was stating what I observed, and that was a bunch of people coming into what was pretty much a level-headed topic (well, atleast before toocoolforschool showed up) and pretty much calling people idiots for not knowing stuff. Theres being right, and theres being nice. You guys really aren't helping the relaxed atmosphere we've had here the past few days.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Scarred Sun said--join dates were absolutely relevant in the point being made--and the only reason Brad replied the way he did is because despite "understanding the point," people were still throwing around words like "strawman" in reference to the basis for the argument. The only misrepresentation of his position in that case was a join date of 09 as opposed to his alleged 2005 join date, which despite being wrong does not invalidate the point being made--that she has been around a lot longer and has more perspective with which to accurately judge the actions of the community over the years. Pointing out that it was a strawman was completely pointless because it didn't change that fact; if anything, it appeared pretentious.

That's understandable, but at the same time, hey, it happened, and naturally she was called out for it. Apologies were made, people (hopefully) moved on. I can't help but think that had things been the other way around, Marco wouldn't be getting much defense.

But you... you're a piece of work, sticking your nose into issues that don't concern you with blanket statements about an entire forum. That makes you look super fucking cool.

Yeah, I'm so cool for noticing how a whole forum acted like babies throughout the whole production and release of Sonic 4 episode 1. While this forum did the same, it wasn't as bad. Complaints can be a good thing, but too much of anything is bad. And by the way, I said "chunks" of members on there, I wasn't talking about everyone.

I wish I could be just like you when I grow up!

And I wish you would grow up. Period.

You feel better about yourself now that you've attacked someone on the internet with a couple f-bombs like a 13 year old kid on Youtube?

Edited February 10, 2011 by Inferno

[Vertekins]

Are you retarded? You're the one acting like a high and mighty douche here. I don't know what makes you think you're better than everyone else here and somehow exempt to your own flawed and ignorant judgement, but come the fuck off it. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Scarred Sun said--join dates were absolutely relevant in the point being made--and the only reason Brad replied the way he did is because despite "understanding the point," people were still throwing around words like "strawman" in reference to the basis for the argument. The only misrepresentation of his position in that case was a join date of 09 as opposed to his alleged 2005 join date, which despite being wrong does not invalidate the point being made--that she has been around a lot longer and has more perspective with which to accurately judge the actions of the community over the years. Pointing out that it was a strawman was completely pointless because it didn't change that fact; if anything, it appeared pretentious.

But you... you're a piece of work, sticking your nose into issues that don't concern you with blanket statements about an entire forum. That makes you look super fucking cool. I wish I could be just like you when I grow up!

Oh cut the shit.

Judging someone by their join date is the same arse-backwards logic that is like judging them by their post count; The higher the number/the older the member, the closer to god. Marco may have assured others that he only joined online Sonic fandom in 2005 but then that isn't applicable to Sun's automatic and misguided assumption that his '09 join date is directly proportionate to his 'knowledge' of Sonic fandom.

I joined SSMB in May 2005, you're going to make an assumption that that is when I actually stumbled across Sonic online fandom for the first time? Because that'd be totally off the mark as I've observed Sonic fandom for considerably longer than 6 years and let me say that online Sonic fandom of the early 2000's was considerably smaller and less opinionated than the fandom of the past few years, a fandom definately hurt and to an extent torn by the Shadow game and SONIC '06. Yeah Shadow's had his dissenters and praisers ever since his debut and I even recall the time when his fanboys were all butthurt over his 'demise' to the point that they began taking that flash in that cutscene as absolute concrete proof that Shadow used Chaos Control and survived. Heroes before it's release had people hyped for the return of Chaotix and Metal Sonic as well as the team-based gameplay, you rarely saw people automatically assume that Heroes would be awful like many in the fandom do today. I never saw people back in those days judge a trailer by a few frikking seconds of in-game footage like they did with Sonic 4. Even here had a ban on Shadow origin topics years ago before ShTH's release but the foibles of fandom back then were never to the degree that they are today.

Fandom has always been torn. But never anywhere near as much as it has been for the last few years.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Verte

[SuperStingray]

The fanbase is something I tend to avoid discussing because I live by the mantra "complaining about complaining is still complaining," but I'm starting to feel some aggression rising in here. As I said, there is not one fanbase out there with unanimous interests. Sonic merely swelled the issue by how tangentially it evolved. It kind of annoys me when people try to divide fans into groups like "modernists" and "classicists" and "Drummondists" etc. Opinions are a lot more complex than that. The brain isn't infinitely complex, but we have over 100 billion neurons under our skulls. Even if two people have nearly identical opinions on the series, odds are there are ways in which they regard it differently. Disregarding someone's opinion because they prefer a certain selection of games, characters or voice actors feels feels like a Glenn Beck-ish mindset, dismissing any idea that seems to disagree with your interests even slightly and labeling it under generic titles hammered in with negative connotations like "Socialism," or in this case, Sonic Apologism, Sonic Purism, Furryism and the like.

Do you know why I'm the 16th most frequent poster on this site? Because it's the only place on the web I can seem to avoid that kind of shit. Have you ever tried to start a discussion about Sonic on 4chan? Youtube? Hell, even Sega's forums can devolve into shit slinging now and then. I don't doubt that other franchises might find the same issue, but I'm glad to have found a place for Sonic that feels like its worth getting a word into. And yet, these "fanbase blah blah blah" threads continue to disappoint me every time I peek inside and now I see why. Taking a look at the people who surround this franchise is all well and good, but they soon start to devolve into a dick-waving contest about who understands the fanbase the best and this doesn't seem like any exception. I'm not saying it's filled with condescension, but we seem to constantly engage ourselves in these conversations and not once have I ever seen one lead to a productive discussion. I'll admit it, I used to be caught in the loop. It frustrated me that Sonic fandom has become flamebait in and of itself, so I needed and outlet. And I just realized I wasted 45 minutes writing this post, so let me save you all the trouble of doing the same: talking about how we're part of an insatiable amalgam of nostalgic whiners, children, fetishists and """"REEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL"""" fans is a waste of your time and mine.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Come to think of it, wasn't the early 2000's near the time when computers started becoming more commonplace? Because during my time observing the fandom, there wasn't a lot of rage to the extent what I'm hearing came out around that very time period, and there didn't seem to be as many people on the forums as there were until Heroes came around and seemingly boosted the series' popularity by a good margin. Then again, the only Sonic sites I went too were the Sonic Info Center, The Sonic Foundation, the Sonic Stadium during it's youngest years, and Team Artail, so I don't think that holds much water overall.

Of course, I was 9 years old and didn't know very much outside of simply having fun with friends, so I wouldn't doubt if I was wrong on that part.

[Tweaker]

Um Tweaker, no offense, but I dont really think it helps you when you do the exact same thing he brought up in his previous post. He was mocking the tone and then criticized Brad for the way he came at him, but you really took it to the extreme and I seriously doubt he was trying to "look cool" with what he said.

"Exact same thing"? You mean... talk to someone? It's not Brad's problem and certainly not my own if someone perceives a firm, no-bullshit tone as "condescending." It also doesn't make his point even remotely valid.

The only thing "extreme" about my post was taking his snarky, arrogant attitude and slapping him right back in the face with it. Even then, I wouldn't call it "extreme" as much as "well-deserved."

Am I now? I don't recall snapping at people like you're doing right now. You're attitude is just screaming "douche" to me.

The only reason I had to snap at you was because I didn't like your ridiculous, douchey attitude and generalizations of an entire community based on whatever arbitrary, elitist guidelines you pulled out of your ass. You're not exempt to being called out as a douche just because you think other people are being douchey.

When did I say I was better than people? I was stating what I observed, and that was a bunch of people coming into what was pretty much a level-headed topic (well, atleast before toocoolforschool showed up) and pretty much calling people idiots for not knowing stuff. Theres being right, and theres being nice. You guys really aren't helping the relaxed atmosphere we've had here the past few days.

Nobody called anyone an idiot until they started acting like one. Trying to refute an extremely valid point about the community as a whole to combat the rampant, blatantly incorrect claims otherwise on the basis of it being a "strawman"--something that did absolutely nothing to actually devalue the validity of the point whatsoever--was overwhelmingly ignorant and the main cause for most of us putting our two cents into this thread. The number of people trying to claim that the community is somehow majorly different than it was nearly 20 years ago based on completely arbitrary factors is ridiculous; we wanted to clear the air here with some trufax, but people seem more interested in being "right" than actually observing the facts and getting a bit of perspective. It's embarrassing.

Yeah, I'm so cool for noticing how a whole forum acted like babies throughout the whole production and release of Sonic 4 episode 1. While this forum did the same, it wasn't as bad.

My ass! I read the topics--it was just as bad here, if not worse, in terms of how people conducted themselves. Not like any of that matters--it's just people expressing their opinions about a game and other people, for some reason, being unable to respect other peoples' completely subjective views about a game, good or bad, and separate that from their own opinions and objective fact. That's a problem with discussion forums on the whole. It's not limited to Sonic Retro, Sonic Stadium or any other Sonic-based community.

Complaints can be a good thing, but too much of anything is bad. And by the way, I said "chunks" of members on there, I wasn't talking about everyone.

There is no objective point to which complaints are either "good" or "bad"--they are what they are. Again, the only issue is that people cannot separate their own subjective views from objective fact, nor can they respect other peoples' opinions for whatever reason.

And I wish you would grow up. Period.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

You feel better about yourself now that you've attacked someone on the internet with a couple f-bombs like a 13 year old kid on Youtube?

This trend of people making hard correlations between "dirty" language and the validity of a post's content is getting really, really old. You know what that is? It's called ad hominem. The way I express my point and your dislike of it does not affect my point in any way whatsoever. Your laughable attacks on my credibility based on the fact that I don't sugar-coat my language hold absolutely no water. Try again, bro.

EDIT: MORE STUFF I GUESS

Oh cut the shit.

Ain't no shit, brah.

Judging someone by their join date is the same arse-backwards logic that is like judging them by their post count; The higher the number/the older the member, the closer to god. Marco may have assured others that he only joined online Sonic fandom in 2005 but then that isn't applicable to Sun's automatic and misguided assumption that his '09 join date is directly proportionate to his 'knowledge' of Sonic fandom.

Except you're completely ignoring that the 05/09 confusion isn't important--the point is, SS has been around since what is widely considered to be the very early, early origins of the online Sonic scene; as such, she has seen this same exact behavior over the years with the release of no specific game affecting the extent to which people rage or do not rage. It is a completely irrelevant factor; her seniority in the scene gives her the advantage of having seen this behavior exist firsthand for years, and public record of years in the scene even before that concretely support this.

In most cases, you'd be right--join date or post count has nothing to do with a person's intelligence or ability to make a point. It is a factor when you're trying to argue that Shadow the Hedgehog had some sort of polarizing effect on peoples attitudes in the community (it didn't).

I'd try and tackle the rest of your point, but it seems to be based very strongly on your perception and emotional response to events you were directly involved in at whatever point in time that lead you to the impression that certain games have had a more significant effect than others in terms of how people act on the whole in the community. I can understand that position--it's easy to look at things objectively when you've been involved in them--but in terms of the big picture, it simply isn't true. People have acted this way since the very first posts on alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog in 1990--quite literally the beginning of the Sonic online fandom as a whole. Time and the quality of the games--something that will always be completely subjective--has not and shows no indication of changing that.

Fandom has always been torn. But never anywhere near as much as it has been for the last few years.

bzzzzzzzt wrong try again please

Edited February 10, 2011 by Tweaker