Does the Adventure series still stack up?

[RidersDX]

Yes, but anytime you argue against an opinion it seems like you're trying to change people's minds about it.

Edited February 27, 2011 by RidersDX

[Kuzu]

...isn't that the point of debating? Everyone on this forum does that. But we all should do it in a calmer manner.

[RidersDX]

Debating is trying to make someone UNDERSTAND your point, not to change their minds.

Edited February 27, 2011 by RidersDX

[Sami]

Debating is trying to make someone UNDERSTAND your point, not to change their minds.

Chill, RidersDX isn't doing anything wrong. He doesn't view them through rose-tinted goggles, he just disagrees on some things. Speaking of which:

I disagree. In SA2, Tails didn't need Sonic at all, but he still felt close to him. You see him flying to Prison Island by himself to go and save Sonic. Didn't need help from Sonic there, Sonic needed Tails' help there. And when Sonic was sent to his doom, Tails was upset because he thought he lost his best friend. He was independent, but he couldn't imagine a life WITHOUT him. So he became even more independent. In my opinion, Tails really was handled well in SA2.

Eh, I guess I can see that, but at the same time, I still think the way they tried to make him "more independent" was just a cop-out, and it felt incredibly lazy to me. I guess it's more SA2's fault then SA1's, really, but even so, the fact that they pulled the same form of (incredibly cliche) character development on the same character in both games is insulting enough; the fact that some fans praise both stories like gods just bothers me even more. :/

More then independence, but realizing that Amy was the true friend and not Eggman. I think that's more then just independence.

The method in which he gains his independence is different, yes, but I still don't think it's all that different. He saves Amy (who did absolutely nothing for him, which makes the whole "realizing she's the real friend" thing kind of iffy. I mean, what made him want to save her? The fact that she refused to give up the bird? The fact that she was a pink female hedgehog? What made her become his friend?), depending on the story, she saves him, and then he never even attempts to see her again for the rest of his life. It was an alright story, but come on, something to cry over? The ending to Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations made me tear up. The final climax in Ghost Trick made me feel like crap. This? ... Not so much.

Hell no, it may have been a part of it, but Shadow's development was much more then that. He wanted vengeance, he wanted people to pay for him hurting. But in the end, he had a revelation that this is not what Maria would've wanted Shadow to live his life like. Shadow was MUCH MORE then just independence and we all know that.

I'm not saying that was all Shadow had, just that they pulled the independence card on him as well. To be honest, I quite liked Shadow's characterization in that game.

[RidersDX]

Chill, RidersDX isn't doing anything wrong. He doesn't view them through rose-tinted goggles, he just disagrees on some things. Speaking of which:

Thank you.

Eh, I guess I can see that, but at the same time, I still think the way they tried to make him "more independent" was just a cop-out, and it felt incredibly lazy to me. I guess it's more SA2's fault then SA1's, really, but even so, the fact that they pulled the same form of (incredibly cliche) character development on the same character in both games is insulting enough; the fact that some fans praise both stories like gods just bothers me even more. :/

I guess, but at the end of the day, I still feel it was well written, even if they used the same thing a second time. To me, it just seemed much more dramatic with SA2's way of doing it, so it still made it feel pretty fresh. SA2 handled Sonic heading for his doom right. I kinda wish actually they didn't show the scene of Sonic trying to use Chaos Control until AFTER he appeared near Knuckles. Would've made it much more effective. But Tails' face during it, really made the scene for me. I can see it being annoying doing the same thing twice, but I still felt it was pulled off very well despite that. I'd prefer them to try different things with Tails now though.

The method in which he gains his independence is different, yes, but I still don't think it's all that different. He saves Amy (who did absolutely nothing for him, which makes the whole "realizing she's the real friend" thing kind of iffy. I mean, what made him want to save her? The fact that she refused to give up the bird? The fact that she was a pink female hedgehog? What made her become his friend?), depending on the story, she saves him, and then he never even attempts to see her again for the rest of his life. It was an alright story, but come on, something to cry over? The ending to Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations made me tear up. The final climax in Ghost Trick made me feel like crap. This? ... Not so much.

It was their first attempt so I guess I'm a little lighter when it comes to SA's story. I won't deny it has its faults, and alot of it comes off as uninteresting. (Big the cat anyone?) But regarding Gamma, maybe the fact that the bird was willing to sacrifice herself for Amy did something to Gamma actually. Maybe he was thinking, why would that bird do that for her? Why does the pink hedgehog care so much about the bird? Perhaps Gamma wanted that kindness given to him as well, and maybe he thought by releasing Amy, he'd get it. It was something Eggman wouldn't give him. Eggman treated him like a weapon, Amy treated him as a person.

I'm not saying that was all Shadow had, just that they pulled the independence card on him as well. To be honest, I quite liked Shadow's characterization in that game.

I feel like the independence was more just a part of it. It really is just realizing that Maria would not want him to be stuck in the past. Independence is a part of it I guess though.

Edited February 28, 2011 by RidersDX

[ChikaBoing]

It's funny how now the Sonic Retro Boards are the least pessimistic about the Adventure games...

[Krishaa]

Despite any of our opinions on the Adventure franchise, it is pretty obvious that it has not aged well with the general public. Here are a few examples to prove my point:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-adventure

Despite whether people think Adventure is the better game than Colors and Unleashed, what Colors is doing is increasing our fanbase, where Adventure will not, especially with the bad rep it's recieved from the general public.

[SuperClassic]

It's funny how now the Sonic Retro Boards are the least pessimistic about the Adventure games...

I find it rather humorous too. We all know that half of Retro is a bunch of 90's Sonic loyalists.

[Sean]

I find it rather humorous too. We all know that half of Retro is a bunch of 90's Sonic loyalists.

Yeah, knock this off guys. I'm getting pretty tired of seeing members here make petty jabs like these at Retro for no good reason.

[ChikaBoing]

Despite any of our opinions on the Adventure franchise, it is pretty obvious that it has not aged well with the general public. Here are a few examples to prove my point:

Despite whether people think Adventure is the better game than Colors and Unleashed, what Colors is doing is increasing our fanbase, where Adventure will not, especially with the bad rep it's recieved from the general public.

Also when reviewers go off in they typical rant on how the Sonic franchise isn't doing so well and mention how the Handheld games kept the Franchise alive since the genesis ones, people always jump the gun about how "your forgetting about Adventure 1 and 2!!!" as if they generally accepted as shining games...ever thought of that they aren't to many people(especially 2 with it's forced gameplay styles)? It's like this thought is/was completly blocked in their mind, for many years. It was always irratating to me.

Edited March 3, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Kuzu]

Also when reviewers go off in they typical rant on how the Sonic franchise isn't doing so well and mention how the Handheld games kept the Franchise alive since the genesis ones, people always jump the gun about how "your forgetting about Adventure 1 and 2!!!" as if they generally accepted as shining games...ever thought of that they aren't to many people(especially 2 with it's forced gameplay styles)? It's like this thought is/was completly blocked in their mind, for many years. It was always irratating to me.

The first review posted is filled with those types of comments, it pisses me off too.

The only people who think the adventure games are amazing are the fanboys, because aside from them, you don't hear about them at all.

[Dr. Crusher]

I admit that even today I still slightly like SA1, but only slightly. SA2 on the other hand can GTFO, even if it features a playable Robotnik.

Some might say that S3&K is overrated, or Sonic 2 is overrated, or the Genesis games in general, or Sonic CD, or even the handhelds (seriously, I've heard this once)... but if you ask me, it's the Adventure series that really reigns supreme as the most overrated of Sonic games.

Another thing that pissed me off once was from not too long ago. Someone from elsewhere had made a thread on a Colours-related topic list about what new types of zones would they like to see if, if, there was ever a Colours 2. In other words, he/she's not forcing SEGA to make a Colours 2 or even actually asking for one, just saying what he/she'd like to see if there ever was. Yet someone replied with something along the lines of "Making a Colours 2 would be unoriginal. Don't make another one, keep the series fresh." No harm in itself, but when you realise that they completely look the other way and go on and on about an Adventure 3 nonstop like many others, it's ever so slightly eye-twitching.

[DarkLight]

I admit that even today I still slightly like SA1, but only slightly. SA2 on the other hand can GTFO, even if it features a playable Robotnik.

Some might say that S3&K is overrated, or Sonic 2 is overrated, or the Genesis games in general, or Sonic CD, or even the handhelds (seriously, I've heard this once)... but if you ask me, it's the Adventure series that really reigns supreme as the most overrated of Sonic games.

Another thing that pissed me off once was from not too long ago. Someone from elsewhere had made a thread on a Colours-related topic list about what new types of zones would they like to see if, if, there was ever a Colours 2. In other words, he/she's not forcing SEGA to make a Colours 2 or even actually asking for one, just saying what he/she'd like to see if there ever was. Yet someone replied with something along the lines of "Making a Colours 2 would be unoriginal. Don't make another one, keep the series fresh." No harm in itself, but when you realise that they completely look the other way and go on and on about an Adventure 3 nonstop like many others, it's ever so slightly eye-twitching.

Agreed. Not to mention if we go by this person's logic, SA2 would be considered unoriginal because it's a sequel to the first one.

[Scott]

I like all Sonic games, let's get that down first!

Also at this time, I'm really tired so...yeah, lets get that down too!

I liked both Adventure games (obv.) and I enjoyed Unleashed (ain't played colours wii cos I'm one of those people who hope for a 360 version) and they're so very different, yeah

But as someone said, it DOES extend the fanbase, we shouldn't argue about how one should be like this game and the other being like that game!!!

I love both Adventure 1 and 2 to bits, but they had alot of flaws, that when I played Unleashed on the 360 felt like they were finally fixed such as:

Camera issues: Not really totally 100% polished but good enough to not bother me in the least during levels, only in HUB worlds.

Grinding: Grinding's one of my favourite things in Sonic games, and moving from a rail onto a parrallel rail was a bit glitchy in Sonic Adventure 2/Heroes and in Shadow the Hedgehog it felt better but....slow? while in Sonic Unleashed it was brilliant, fast and flawless!

Speed: OMG I was blown away by the speed when I held down that boost button and without it, Sonic was still pretty fast, It felt amazing, but it was too narrow, you were going through a set path, which was essentially a straight line, with a few levels each having a few alternate paths which were nice, others har to find, where the Adventure games, you had space in all directions, and didn't need a guide as it was easy to navigate but it was slower and wasn't quite the "get from point A to B as the classics"

Characters: It's debateable in my opinion whether or not characters destroy the gameplay for you, in my time, only Big (SA), Tails (SA2, it was better suited on Eggman), Amy (S'06)have destroyed the fun for me for their own reasons, but the games are Sonic games and with only Sonic being playable in recent games, where can they go wrong? (minus werehog, since thats a purposely altered Sonic), Sonic's levels were brillaint in both Adventures, we only needed one Team in Sonic Heroes to be honest, he played goodish in 06 and superb in Unleashed.

But yeah, my point! Unleashed improved on sooooo many things the Adventure games didn't, even improving thr In-game clip scenes with the mouth movement, was I the only person who noticed?

Instead of hating other gameplay styles and bring selfish and ignorant and trying to convince people what YOU want, just enjoy what YOU have?

I want a new adventure-like game myself, but I've got SA 1 & 2, Heroes, ShTH and S'06 to keep me going, and I even want a classic-Unleashed fusion, but I'm not gonna demand it or say it SHOULD be done!

Before you all flame me and throw your spikey's and launch your missiles at me, keep in mind this is basically my opinion, and in no way represents yours, but I'm just throwing this out there!

And now I finish, cos I feel like I'm swaying away from the topic now....

<3

[RidersDX]

Also when reviewers go off in they typical rant on how the Sonic franchise isn't doing so well and mention how the Handheld games kept the Franchise alive since the genesis ones, people always jump the gun about how "your forgetting about Adventure 1 and 2!!!" as if they generally accepted as shining games...ever thought of that they aren't to many people(especially 2 with it's forced gameplay styles)? It's like this thought is/was completly blocked in their mind, for many years. It was always irratating to me.

It irritates you people have a different opinion from you? Although, I will admit there are many annoying Adventure fanboys out there but you're not doing yourself any favors by hating people for just preferring the Adventure games.

The first review posted is filled with those types of comments, it pisses me off too.

The only people who think the adventure games are amazing are the fanboys, because aside from them, you don't hear about them at all.

What the hell Shadic? You hate people for preferring the Adventure series? I'm beginning to think the reason you called me out like that in this thread and my locked topic is because I just happen to favor the Adventure games, not because of myself.

Seriously people, I realize there are lots of annoying Adventure fans out there, but like I said before, you are doing absolutely NOTHING for yourself by playing their game and hating all people that so much as like the Adventure series.

[BlazingTales]

I don't think anyone said anything about hating Adventure fans, they just said they dislike it when people place the series on a god-like pedestal.

[RidersDX]

I don't think anyone said anything about hating Adventure fans, they just said they dislike it when people place the series on a god-like pedestal.

But that kinda is hating Adventure fans. They dislike that they love the series.

[BlazingTales]

But that kinda is hating Adventure fans. They dislike that they love the series.

I don't think it's so much hating the fans as it is disliking the nostalgia-painted opinion.

For instance, I never was much of a fan of Sonic Heroes, but I have several friends who love the game to death (as it was the title to introduce them to Sonic). Though I can't see why they find the game so amazing, I'm still able to stay friends with them. On the opposite end, I think Shadow the Hedgehog is a bit underrated (due to it being the game to introduce me to the series), but that doesn't mean people snipe me down over it.

[Scar]

But that kinda is hating Adventure fans. They dislike that they love the series.

No we don't dislike them because they love the series. I'm happy for them in fact. Its great that they like the games so much.

My major problem with many (not all) of them, is their false sense of self-entitlement, as if they deserve SA3. The other problem is, that they want a game in the image of SA1/2 and nothing short of that will do.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Scar

[RidersDX]

I don't think it's so much hating the fans as it is disliking the nostalgia-painted opinion.

For instance, I never was much of a fan of Sonic Heroes, but I have several friends who love the game to death (as it was the title to introduce them to Sonic). Though I can't see why they find the game so amazing, I'm still able to stay friends with them. On the opposite end, I think Shadow the Hedgehog is a bit underrated (due to it being the game to introduce me to the series), but that doesn't mean people snipe me down over it.

It's just that these days, people seem to be that much more harsh towards Adventure fans, just because they happen to love the games. This is just like before where classic fans were hated on for putting them on pedestals. I used to be one of those haters. Now that it's the Adventure games being hated on though, I see how the classic fans felt and it is wrong to hate people like that just because they love certain games more then you do. I'm just sick of it all, why can't people respect each other's tastes? I know I sometimes get carried away, but there are people who don't even try to respect that other people can disagree.

No we don't dislike them because they love the series. I'm happy for them in fact. Its great that they like the games so much.

My major problem with many (not all) of them, is their false sense of self-entitlement, as if they deserve SA3. The other problem is, that they want a game in the image of SA1/2 and nothing short of that will do.

I know there are LOTS of Adventure fans like that, and I see why people can be lead to hate them. I know you're not one of those people that hate Adventure fans, I respect you for trying to stay respectful. But some people do not. Sonic Adventure 3 is a VERY GOOD example of Adventure haters at their worst. They disrespect anyone that even MENTIONS the idea, they don't respect people that happen to want a Sonic Adventure 3, but don't say they deserve a SA3. If they did, I can see why people are quick to be aggressive. But I just think everyone has to take a step back, and try to remember that you may be disrespecting someone just because of their opinion.

[Kuzu]

I don't hate the Adventure fans, I just don't like it when they act like the Adventure games were the greatest thing since sliced bread, and won't accept anything less than a game just like it. You can like the games as much as you want, I commend you for that, but don't assume if its not like the Adventure games, its automatically crap(This isn't directed at you RidersDX, its a general thing).

I've seen a million comments like: "Sonic should make another game like Sonic Adventure 2, its the only way to save the franchise" or "Unleashed was terrible, the last good Sonic game was SA2"

Its those type of comments that set me off, when fanboys act like everything after SA2 is crap(similar to how the Retro Purists act)

[BlazingTales]

It's just that these days, people seem to be that much more harsh towards Adventure fans, just because they happen to love the games. This is just like before where classic fans were hated on for putting them on pedestals. I used to be one of those haters. Now that it's the Adventure games being hated on though, I see how the classic fans felt and it is wrong to hate people like that just because they love certain games more then you do. I'm just sick of it all, why can't people respect each other's tastes? I know I sometimes get carried away, but there are people who don't even try to respect that other people can disagree.

I think Adventure fans are being targeted simply because of the sudden "demand" for Sonic Adventure-esque gameplay. Sonic's most recent outing lacked alternate gameplay styles/characters, hub worlds, a dark story, and only featured a few non-linear 3D sections: all of which being staples to the Adventure formula. Just as Scar said, because of both this and retro fans being "treated" with the release of Sonic 4, some select fans feel like SEGA "owe" them a SA3. I admit it is quite irritating to watch and I'd like it if those fans would lay off and move on; the Adventure series was -objectively- not the greatest thing to ever happen. Despite this, never would I say I'm disrespecting either them or their opinions. I'm glad they enjoy the games as much as they do, just don't expect everyone else to enjoy the series and don't limit yourself to just the Adventure titles.

Don't get me wrong, I adore the Adventure games in spite of their flaws and would love to see a SA3, but if SEGA were to release something completely different like Sonic's Amazing Journey through Happyland, I'd be just as thrilled.

EDIT: Shadic93 puts it best; purists are annoying and people will be annoyed by them.

Edited March 4, 2011 by BlazingTales

[RidersDX]

I don't hate the Adventure fans, I just don't like it when they act like the Adventure games were the greatest thing since sliced bread, and won't accept anything less than a game just like it. You can like the games as much as you want, I commend you for that, but don't assume if its not like the Adventure games, its automatically crap(This isn't directed at you RidersDX, its a general thing).

I've seen a million comments like: "Sonic should make another game like Sonic Adventure 2, its the only way to save the franchise" or "Unleashed was terrible, the last good Sonic game was SA2"

Its those type of comments that set me off, when fanboys act like everything after SA2 is crap(similar to how the Retro Purists act)

So, you don't like it that they love Adventure games more then anything in this world? But I will say I understand the fans that hates anything else besides it. But you know, sometimes that opinion is there because they really just can't like that stuff. They shouldn't be disrespected for it just because they only like something and nothing else. And if they're being asses and bashing people that like the new stuff, then they are just asses, they don't respect people's different opinions.

I just feel like you don't respect my opinions Shadic. Yes, I love the Adventure games that much despite those flaws, I'm not going to make it sound like I hate them more then I actually do just because it'll annoy you if I don't. It's my true opinion, so I'll tell you my true opinion. And I feel like you just can't respect that. Sometimes, when you grow up to love something, you're able to look over its flaws and still enjoy it. But I do not deny those flaws. If you point out flaws, I will most likely agree with them if I do believe they are flaws. I am not close-minded, I can like something if it is good. I liked Colors', and I prefer its gameplay over ShTH, and it's equal to Heroes gameplay wise for me too.

[Kuzu]

So, you don't like it that they love Adventure games more then anything in this world? But I will say I understand the fans that hates anything else besides it. But you know, sometimes that opinion is there because they really just can't like that stuff. They shouldn't be disrespected for it just because they only like something and nothing else. And if they're being asses and bashing people that like the new stuff, then they are just asses, they don't respect people's different opinions.

I just feel like you don't respect my opinions Shadic. Yes, I love the Adventure games that much despite those flaws, I'm not going to make it sound like I hate them more then I actually do just because it'll annoy you if I don't. It's my true opinion, so I'll tell you my true opinion. And I feel like you just can't respect that. Sometimes, when you grow up to love something, you're able to look over its flaws and still enjoy it. But I do not deny those flaws. If you point out flaws, I will most likely agree with them if I do believe they are flaws. I am not close-minded, I can like something if it is good. I liked Colors', and I prefer its gameplay over ShTH, and it's equal to Heroes gameplay wise for me too.

Didn't I just say that I commend you for liking the games? As long as you don't act like a jackass going "Sonic Adventure 2 is the only good Sonic game" then I have no problem with what you do.

To clear things up: Would I like a Sonic Adventure 3? Hell yeah I would, I think it would be awesome, espcially if they're able to fix all the problems the last two games had. I just don't think we NEED one, if they make Sonic Adventure 3, power to them, but I don't want it because a bunch of fanboys cried for it, and Sonic Team is just making it because of them, that's how Sonic 4 came to be and look how that turned out.

I just hate it when the fanboys act like Jackass about the games is all.

[RidersDX]

Didn't I just say that I commend you for liking the games? As long as you don't act like a jackass going "Sonic Adventure 2 is the only good Sonic game" then I have no problem with what you do.

To clear things up: Would I like a Sonic Adventure 3? Hell yeah I would, I think it would be awesome, espcially if they're able to fix all the problems the last two games had. I just don't think we NEED one, if they make Sonic Adventure 3, power to them, but I don't want it because a bunch of fanboys cried for it, and Sonic Team is just making it because of them, that's how Sonic 4 came to be and look how that turned out.

I just hate it when the fanboys act like Jackass about the games is all.

I find it VERY hard to believe you would be okay with a SA3, considering how you acted when the latest SA3 topic came up. If I remember, you were probably the most aggressive of the bunch. And the TC only mentioned what he'd like in a SA3. You sound like you wanted it at fast, but stopped wanting it and actually did not want it due to the fanboys. Don't let the fanboys that insult the Adventure fans effect your opinion on the topic.

I don't feel I act like a jackass, and yet you made it seem like you thought I was one before on a couple of occasions. But I'll admit, sometimes I get carried away, but I try not to. It's sometimes hard, because that's what people make me out as.