Jump to content
Awoo.

Does the Adventure series still stack up?


Kuzu

Recommended Posts

To add onto Scar's statement, I feel the same way he does, and as I've said before, I do not believe that the Sonic franchise should be ran to only please the fans, which is what they want when they request (demand) Sonic Adventure 3. What makes a series so fun is that it brings something new to the table. I'm not talking about a sequel that takes what the first game has and expanding it, I'm talking about relying on creativity over continuity to make a franchise good. There are franchises that need continuity, like Street Fighter, but Sonic doesn't need it. Besides, Sonic Team is finally making progress and expanding the series to more than anthropomorphic animals being in the real world with 80's rock music playing in the background (I'm not saying that that was bad, I'm saying that we're actually getting something different for a change). Personally, I'm loving SEGA's confidence in the character that they've had lately, the same way they felt about him in the 1990's, so much that they don't need nostalgia to make a franchise good, that they have the mindset to make the character good in new situations and are willing to open up to a new crowd. I can't wait to see new types of people enter the fanbase.

Edited by Krishaa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I disagree with the idea that sequels are uncreative. When you think about it, all Sonic games are sequels; even if it isn’t always necessary to link every Sonic game together with one massive narrative structure. Also, I don’t see any reason why Sega can’t develop sequels to older Sonic games while also working to create completely unique Sonic games as well, as history has shown, Sega certainly has the resources to produce multiple Sonic games as the same time. The future of this series will not hinge on any single Sonic game or any other Sonic related IP; I think that a little variety is the best way forward, to accommodate the varying tastes of this surprisingly complex fanbase.

Still, thinking back to last generation, I have very fond memories of Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2; as well as their respective ports on the Gamecube. I think that creativity was key to these games success; offering many new ideas, such as storylines with actual character growth and some excellent 3D level designs, to make these games just as enjoyable today as when I first played them all those years ago. Speaking of the future, I see no reason why ‘Sonic Adventure 3’ wouldn’t take advantage of technological advances; using Sonic Unleashed’s improved camera system and perhaps even the Hedgehog Engine itself would be a perfectly reasonable choice for Sonic Team to make. On a more personal note, I’d like see some more interesting stories in future Sonic games; don’t get me wrong, I think that Sonic Colours has some great dialogue, I just think the game was also hampered by a basic plot. Moreover, it would also be good to see the Chao Garden again; if not as part of ‘Sonic Adventure 3’ then at least as some sort of stand alone game, on path with the sort of thing you can download through the Xbox Marketplace. Just to offer a coupe of examples of how I think that many aspects of Sonic Adventure still hold merit today.

Edited by Kintor
  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't hate the Adventure fans, I just don't like it when they act like the Adventure games were the greatest thing since sliced bread, and won't accept anything less than a game just like it. You can like the games as much as you want, I commend you for that, but don't assume if its not like the Adventure games, its automatically crap(This isn't directed at you RidersDX, its a general thing).

I've seen a million comments like: "Sonic should make another game like Sonic Adventure 2, its the only way to save the franchise" or "Unleashed was terrible, the last good Sonic game was SA2"

Its those type of comments that set me off, when fanboys act like everything after SA2 is crap(similar to how the Retro Purists act)

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also when reviewers go off in they typical rant on how the Sonic franchise isn't doing so well and mention how the Handheld games kept the Franchise alive since the genesis ones, people always jump the gun about how "your forgetting about Adventure 1 and 2!!!" as if they generally accepted as shining games...ever thought of that they aren't to many people(especially 2 with it's forced gameplay styles)?

Edited by eboni
  • Thumbs Up 3
  • Bad Quality Post 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you did say "The only people who think the adventure games are amazing are the fanboys", which is insulting toward the Adventure fans in general, not just the fanboys who wouldn't like any other kind of game.

And what if people genuinely think that the games after Adventure 2 were bad, and not because of the formula? It sounds like you're hating people just because they have a different opinion.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides Colors is about to be the epitome of Sonic "fanboyism" and its as average as it can get with Sonic.

Congratulations. You're now exactly like the very haters that you previously loathed.

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides Colors is about to be the epitome of Sonic "fanboyism" and its as average as it can get with Sonic.

And I've also think SA2 is an average game and it doesn't derserves most of the praised it gets. It would've been great for me if it didn't forced me to play those tedious hunting and shooting stages that I can't stand and I end up turning the game off. Stop bringing up another game to make your favorite game look good.

Edited by sonfan1984
  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Main thing for me is that people do like as if SEGA never listened to what the fans of the Adventure games want , which just isn't true.

When Adventure 2 came out, people didn't like the Shooting/Hunting Levels. So they made Heroes a game with only one gameplay-style that focused on the speed-based plattforming.

People didn't like Heroes, so SEGA thought"Maybe they do like all that stuff from SA2" so they made a game about shooting/searching/running mixed into one, covered with a dark fleshed out storyline about their beloved Shadow,made 400 Crush40 Songs and let Senoune compose about 500 Level Songs, which all sound the same.

People still claimed that SEGA doesn't listen and wanted a truely proper SA3, which has all the elements that the Adventure games have, and they did that with 06.

When Unleashed was announed it contained the same gameplay element(unrelated gameplay forced upon the player) of Adventure 2, yet people still wanted SA3 because they it had the Werehog and an unrelated alternate gameplay style and not only Sonic gameplay, even tough the Adventure games weren't 100% Core-Sonic gameplay.

So when Colors came out it was what everybody wanted, Sonic Unleashed without Werehog.SEGA realised finnaly after 7 years that people want a game without alt. gameplay and branched off the Adventure formula for once after so many years. Yet they still want Adventure 3.

Edited by ChikaBoing
  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stop bringing up another game to make your favorite game look good.

No, no. I don't need to use Colors to make SA2 to look good, I think its a good game on its own. :P There's a lot of people who actually ENJOYED the other styles of alternate gameplay. And I think A LOT of people did because they were fun. I liked being Eggman and blasting up stuff, I liked looking for keys and avoiding the Egg Beetle's lasers, and I liked speeding along Green Forest too! To me it wasn't a "Well shoot, I'm not Sonic anymore!" experience it was a "Well, what's next?!?!" experience.

And again, Colors isn't a bad game, It's good, but nothing amazing. Sega may have given people what they wanted, granted I actually enjoyed Werehog but found it useless and can do without it, but what they presented was average. Nothing about Colors makes me say, "This is the BEST Sonic game in ages" as the reviews imply.

I think it only receives such praise because there isn't any alternate play style. Which is a good thing but there was nothing memorable about these levels, or the story, or even the music. The last one is totally opinionated... cause as well all know music tastes are dependent on the person.

And Colors is NOT Unleashed gameplay without Werehog. Unleashed day stages are more focused on speed in both 2D and 3D and less platforming. The platforming is there, but there's not an emphasis on it. Colors stages are based on Unleashed's levels but they're excessive 2D platforming with spurts of Sonic running in 3D, grinding on a rail, or using a wisp. Or jumping on that damned yellow spring, which is just so not Sonic gameplay. If it was Unleashed without the Werehog, I would have enjoyed it more... =/

I prefer Unleashed day levels because they are way more engaging. Maybe they didn't have all of these alternate paths that people obsess over or heavy platforming, but they were speedy and exciting! I, personally, like that in Sonic. Part of why SA2 Sonic levels were so amazing to me because they made me feel like I was Sonic and I needed to use my speed to save the freaking world as quickly as possible. I don't feel like that in Colors. I'm running, because Sonic isn't slow in Colors by means, but I'm just going from A to B. It lacks the substance to me. Granted it's still a fun game, but it lacks the impact that makes me say, "Sonic I love you SO. FREAKING. MUCH."

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, no. I don't need to use Colors to make SA2 to look good, I think its a good game on its own. :P

Well okay, but it seems like you're alway taking a stab at Colors almost everytime you talk about SA2. I can respect the fact that you love SA2 and all the other gameplay styles but that is so annoying sometimes.

Edited by sonfan1984
  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's always annoying, considering the fact that most people play a Sonic game for the Sonic gameplay. Keeping the other play-styles separate is something a majority of consumers can agree on.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Main thing for me is that people do like as if SEGA never listened to what the fans of the Adventure games want , which just isn't true.

This is correct.

People didn't like Heroes

This however is not true. Heroes was actually well-recieved. It was more of the fact Shadow returned and people wanted him to have his own game.

When Unleashed was announed it contained the same gameplay element(unrelated gameplay forced upon the player) of Adventure 2, yet people still wanted SA3 because they it had the Werehog and an unrelated alternate gameplay style and not only Sonic gameplay, even tough the Adventure games weren't 100% Core-Sonic gameplay.

This is also quite underhanded. Blaming the adventure fans for something that was universally agreed upon is just wrong. A large majority of the fanbase did not want Werehog and found him to be a terrible gimmick. Do not isolate the adventure fans for this. That's just wrong.

Also, how the fuck did this discussion turn into hating fans wanting Sonic Adventure 3 again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congratulations. You're now exactly like the very haters that you previously loathed.

This.

No, no. I don't need to use Colors to make SA2 to look good, I think its a good game on its own. :P There's a lot of people who actually ENJOYED the other styles of alternate gameplay. And I think A LOT of people did because they were fun. I liked being Eggman and blasting up stuff, I liked looking for keys and avoiding the Egg Beetle's lasers, and I liked speeding along Green Forest too! To me it wasn't a "Well shoot, I'm not Sonic anymore!" experience it was a "Well, what's next?!?!" experience.

And again, Colors isn't a bad game, It's good, but nothing amazing. Sega may have given people what they wanted, granted I actually enjoyed Werehog but found it useless and can do without it, but what they presented was average. Nothing about Colors makes me say, "This is the BEST Sonic game in ages" as the reviews imply.

I think it only receives such praise because there isn't any alternate play style. Which is a good thing but there was nothing memorable about these levels, or the story, or even the music. The last one is totally opinionated... cause as well all know music tastes are dependent on the person.

And Colors is NOT Unleashed gameplay without Werehog. Unleashed day stages are more focused on speed in both 2D and 3D and less platforming. The platforming is there, but there's not an emphasis on it. Colors stages are based on Unleashed's levels but they're excessive 2D platforming with spurts of Sonic running in 3D, grinding on a rail, or using a wisp. Or jumping on that damned yellow spring, which is just so not Sonic gameplay. If it was Unleashed without the Werehog, I would have enjoyed it more... =/

I prefer Unleashed day levels because they are way more engaging. Maybe they didn't have all of these alternate paths that people obsess over or heavy platforming, but they were speedy and exciting! I, personally, like that in Sonic. Part of why SA2 Sonic levels were so amazing to me because they made me feel like I was Sonic and I needed to use my speed to save the freaking world as quickly as possible. I don't feel like that in Colors. I'm running, because Sonic isn't slow in Colors by means, but I'm just going from A to B. It lacks the substance to me. Granted it's still a fun game, but it lacks the impact that makes me say, "Sonic I love you SO. FREAKING. MUCH."

I have to agree that I liked the focus on the Unleashed levels better than Colors (and FUCK that damn yellow spring).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors are equally commendable for their respective focuses; Unleashed for speed, and Colors for platforming. Either way, Colors had some good speed sections and Unleashed did have some good platforming sections as well. I don't understand why people ignore the moments where you need to platform in Unleashed; it isn't just a boost-a-thon, and the sections where you boost the most are when you'll need your most wits about you, hence the inclusion of moves like the quick-step or drift for better handling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well okay, but it seems like you're alway taking a stab at Colors almost everytime you talk about SA2. I can respect the fact that you love SA2 and all the other gameplay styles but that is so annoying sometimes.

You're probably right, I'll restrain myself. I'm sorry, I had A LOT riding on Colors and it disappointed me. If I'm being rather biased I'll try to correct that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you sure didn't want the Werehog back.

I didn't want the day-time stages back either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not gonna lie.

All of the 3D Sonic games are not what you'd call examples of exceptional game design. Frankly neither are all of the 2D ones.

Every single Sonic game has flaws, some more than others.

Just to prove a point, I'm going to make a list of said flaws.

SA1: Big the cat. The game was full of filler gameplay, which felt like gameplay time extenders. Glitchtastic camera system (sort of OK, first 3D Sonic game)

SA2: Another big one. What is regarded to be the best 3D Sonic game. Took some of the problems SA1 had, and made them worse. Made the Hunting stages even larger, and ruined the radar so you could only find 1 emerald at a time. Made the shooting much slower and made the later levels way too long for their own good. Sonic and Shadow stages usually being the only saving grace, as they clearly had the most effort put into their design.

We all know about the flaws of Shadow through to Secret Rings.

Sonic Unleashed: Like SA2 in more ways than you'd like to think. Features some really good and focused gameplay (Sonic stages naturally), however it too had filler (the Werehog), which wasn't horrible, but was a blatant attempt at extending gameplay time.

Sonic Colours: The new boy. Too much blocky platforming and some gimmicky stages. On-rails 3D gameplay.

P.S. Don't give me any bullshit about Unleashed and Colours being too linear, because SA2 was just as linear as those games (if not moreso), it was just much, much slower.

My point here being, there is no correct formula to making a great Sonic game, because as of yet, it hasn't been found. Desiring a game to be in a particular style won't help. We should demand development. This is isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but we need Sonic Team to take the very best elements of all the games, and combine them, and refine them. That is the only way forward from here. Scrapping everything is a waste of money, but only using part of what's available is a waste of time.

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sonic Colours: The new boy. Too much blocky platforming and some gimmicky stages. On-rails 3D gameplay.

Can you elaborate on this? I can't see anything negative about that. Do grinding on rails take away from good gameplay?

My point here being, there is no correct formula to making a great Sonic game, because as of yet, it hasn't been found. Desiring a game to be in a particular style won't help. We should demand development. This is isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but we need Sonic Team to take the very best elements of all the games, and combine them, and refine them.

But there's so many elements that people either like or hate. Is there even a general agreement on what the "good" elements in Sonic are? I know that some of the less desired elements are obvious (Big the Cat, alternate gameplay styles, shoddy camera, etc), but what others aren't so universally disliked. Boosting and homing attack are hated by some and loved by others.

It's great idea for the Sonic Team to do that, but it seems like even that wouldn't make a Sonic game that's received as "great" by all of the fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you elaborate on this? I can't see anything negative about that. Do grinding on rails take away from good gameplay?

I mean some times (mostly during quickstep sequences) control was taken from you, and you'd automatically move forward. Kinda like Secret Rings, but considering it was made by the same team, it kinda was to be expected.

But there's so many elements that people either like or hate. Is there even a general agreement on what the "good" elements in Sonic are? I know that some of the less desired elements are obvious (Big the Cat, alternate gameplay styles, shoddy camera, etc), but what others aren't so universally disliked. Boosting and homing attack are hated by some and loved by others.

It's great idea for the Sonic Team to do that, but it seems like even that wouldn't make a Sonic game that's received as "great" by all of the fans.

Yeah, everything can be used, if done correctly. Boost could be limited to a "sprint" functionality, by pressing down on the Left Analogue-button (L3). This would allow you a short burst of speed whilst on the move(perhaps with the peelout animation for nostalgia), which has a slow recharging time, so it can't be spammed. The Homing attack could be modified to use momentum to calculate its variables; the faster you're going the greater its range, and if you're at a standstill you can't use it. That would require much more tactical usage, and the extended range at high speed would reward players for being good enough to maintain their speed. Also the Homing attack could be animated and modified to simulate bouncing like the classics. Think the animation of when you homing attack a balloon in Unleashed/Colours. Instead of recoiling backwards from the homing attack, you home onto the enemy, then bounce off, whilst retaining your momentum and keep movign forward.

There are many ways you could improve already existing moves to make the games better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to say for a many of years, possibly until I joined this forum, I thought it was a generally accepted idea.

Trying to summarize the perception of the Adventure games, i would say that until a few years ago (that is, until the games got a huge backlash from the fanbase after the release of Unleashed and Colors), it looked something like this:

The Sonic fanbase liked the games (hell, even the people over at the Green Hill Zone forum, the breeding ground for the most narrow-minded type of "retro-fags", generally agreed that at least SA1 was a good enough game).

The video game press disliked them (yes, SA1 and to a lesser degree SA2 were both praised upon their initial release, but reviewers then changed their opinion about them very quickly).

Gamers in general disliked them.

People in general liked them. Not saying that gamers aren't "people" :P , but what i mean is that while "gamers, in the sense of people with a big interest in video games who regularly read video game magazines and such, generally appeared to have the same opinions on the Adventure games as reviewers did, more casual gamers (the ones who was even aware of the games existence, that is) appeared to be quite fond of them. I'm basing this belief both on personal experience, on the great sales of SA2:Battle, and on the fact that so many fans began their journey into Sonic fandom after experiencing the GameCube ports of the games.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or alternatively, someone could just pick up either of the Adventures and like them. Or hate them.

Fairly simple.

Edited by Dr. Crusher
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sonic Colours: The new boy. Too much blocky platforming and some gimmicky stages. On-rails 3D gameplay.

You didn't play Colors. Or if anything, you tried to play it like Unleashed. Colors is the most open of all the 3D games, trying to S rank the stages or hunting for all the Red Rings shows this perfectly. Aquarium Park in itself is stupendously vast, wide, long and deep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You didn't play Colors. Or if anything, you tried to play it like Unleashed. Colors is the most open of all the 3D games, trying to S rank the stages or hunting for all the Red Rings shows this perfectly. Aquarium Park in itself is stupendously vast, wide, long and deep.

As far as I can remember, Aquarium Park is only "vast, wide, long and deep" in the 2D sections. I wouldn't exactly call the 3D sections "on-rails", but that's not too far off.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.