The Canonicity of Sonic Characters!

[Diogenes]

You could put it earlier in the timeline, but that only adds more unnecessary confusion.

Actually it works pretty much perfectly.

[HunterTSF]

Actually it works pretty much perfectly.

...then how come Eggman goes from the technologically superior Metal Sonic design to the outdated hunk of metal that is Mecha Sonic? That's working backwards.

Makes no sense, I tells ya.

[SEGAMew]

The power source for Sonic CD's badniks were plant life/flowers rather than animals... and I have no clue what Metal/Mecha/Silver Sonic runs on.

[Diogenes]

Speed didn't work, so he tried power.

[Indigo Rush]

Hunter, normally I agree with everything you say without even thinking twice because of your awesomeness and correctness, but I have to disagree with your interpretation of Sonic CD in the timeline. We got confirmation from AAUK that the entire game was canon, Time Stones and all. It was created alongside Sonic 2 by different developers within SEGA, accounting for the design differences. This is why there are 2 kinds of Metal Sonic. Unfortunately, this explanation isn't one that abides within the timeline itself, but rather more of a development history deal, so I don't know if this explanation counts for you. The best ways to explain what happened are extraneous fanfiction work for a little plothole that probably shouldn't be fiddled with in the first place, but if I had to take a crack at explaining why the Eggster went with different designs of Metal Sonic...

Option 1: This places Sonic CD after Sonic 1 and before Sonic 2, because Sonic 2 directly leads into Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Sonic 1 ends, and Sonic goes to Little Planet and fights Metal Sonic. Once Metal Sonic is defeated, and the game ends, Eggman puts his focus on the Death Egg project. Not satisfied with how Metal Sonic performed and not willing to put focus on rebuilding him at the moment, he tosses together a temporary replacement (Silver Sonic) to take on Sonic. Silver Sonic is destroyed, and Sonic 3 begins. Eggman hashes together yet another robot Sonic that functions similarly to Silver Sonic, again, not able to spend the time on repairing either two, since he's focused on his Death Egg. In short, Silver Sonic and Mecha Sonic are just temporary replacements until Eggman can go back and improve on the original Metal Sonic. This theory works best, I feel, although those who prefer the timeline to match the release dates of the games won't find this one to their liking.

Option 2: Sonic CD happens after Sonic 2, and before Sonic 3. This theory doesn't really hold much water because there's no logical reason for Eggman to leave the Death Egg on Angel Island to work on taking over Little Planet. This theory would involve Tails embarking on his own journey (see: Tails Adventures/Skypatrol) while the Chaos Emeralds are stored somewhere safe for the moment. Eggman builds Metal Sonic and Sonic CD's events happen. After this, Eggman hashes together Mecha Sonic for Sonic 3 and Knuckles and decides he suddenly cares about the Death Egg again. Again, this isn't the best option, but if you want to match the timeline to the release dates, this is the way to do it.

Option 3: Despite the year it was released, place Sonic CD after Sonic 3 and Knuckles in the timeline. Simplest solution, although it won't satisfy everyone. Also, we need to account why Tails isn't showing up here (Skypatrollin'?)

EDIT: Also, we need to take Sonic 4 into account. So it would have to happen before then, because the CD-style Metal Sonic is in Episode II (don't act like you didn't know) However, some may want to ignore Sonic 4 altogether, so it really depends on your liking.

EDIT 2: Alternatively, Sonic 4: Episode II's Metal Sonic could possibly be Metal Sonic's first appearance. We need to wait and see how they handle this in the future, but until then, what I said before pretty much still stands as my explanation.

Now... if it were up to me, I'd pick Option 1. It places Sonic CD before Sonic 2 and after Sonic 1, but seems to be the best explanation.

To conclude, the Sonic timeline's been botched from day one. It's likely that neither Sonic CD nor Sonic 2 were originally created with the ambition to branch out into a continuing timeline, so this was an unintended result of SEGA cashing out their new superstar. Once Sonic 3 was made to follow directly after Sonic 2, Sonic CD fell into the obscure category in the field of canonization, right alongside the obscurity of being released on an unpopular SEGA add-on for the 16-bit console.

It's honestly best to just ignore it and assume that Sonic CD happened at some point after Sonic 1 and before Sonic Adventure.

EDIT: b'sides, AAUK says it's canon, so nyeh.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[SEGAMew]

Sonic CD is effectively an "Another place, another time" deal... Literally. Sonic hops around time so much in that game that he in the end ended up in a very good future that lead to the awesomeness of S2/S3+K timelines. Metal Sonic wasn't used in Sonic 2 and Sonic 3+K because Sonic went to the past and smashed all the Metal Sonic statues and thus Eggman had no inspiration to draw his designs from.

Those are my thoughts/theories anyway.

[Indigo Rush]

Sonic CD is effectively an "Another place, another time" deal... Literally. Sonic hops around time so much in that game that he in the end ended up in a very good future that lead to the awesomeness of S2/S3+K timelines. Metal Sonic wasn't used in Sonic 2 and Sonic 3+K because Sonic went to the past and smashed all the Metal Sonic statues and thus Eggman had no inspiration to draw his designs from.

Those are my thoughts/theories anyway.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Detective Shadzter]

Woah, that's a whole mess of canon topics over at the SEGA Forums. Just been posting in the new single canon topic that a mod opened after locking the others to explain AAUK's credibility, since a bunch of folk are heavily doubting him just because he works as a Community Manager at SEGA Europe.

Here's what I said if anyone wants to read them:

What AAUK said isn't his opinion on it. A lot of folks here are looking down on him for just being SEGA Europe's Community Manager and saying he has nothing to do with SEGA Japan and Sonic Team, but HE DOES. Me and my fellow staff at The Sonic Stadium speak to him a lot, go to SEGA press events and work with him on the Summer of Sonic event and know a bit about what his job entails. AAUK and the rest of SEGA Europe and all other SEGA divisions for that matter are always in contact with SEGA Japan and Sonic Team and know their games and brands as well as their Japanese departments.

For Summer of Sonic for example, AAUK has to get in touch with Sonic Team for EVERYTHING to do with the event as we plan it all through the year, despite it being based in the UK. Everything has to get approved by Sonic Team before it can go ahead in the event, even the damn events logo and website. That's how close in contact AAUK is with Sonic Team.

[Core]

While I don't question AAUK's credibility, I have to address this point:

Here's another example to back up AAUK's credibility: Anyone remember SEGA Europe's official Sonic website they used to have called Sonic City? Remember all of those great games pages for every Sonic game released packed with tons of official details, story plots, artwork and screens? Those awesome character profiles with bios etc? Well, the whole site was AAUK's work. He got all of the info, character details and art and stuff from Sonic Team, but the whole site was solely his passion and hard work. Shame it didn't last after all of his effort.

Actually, AAUK himself said that he didn't make the site, and that while he did a lot of writing for it, he didn't write everything on it.

Besides, not everyone thought that that site was that great - there was a lot of controversy about the contents.

[Sean]

Every game happened, and in the order of release. This isn't the fucking Legend of Zelda guys.

Oh and that new My Little Pony show is unbelievably banal and its popularity astounds me.

[SEGAMew]

But the story of Tails Adventures happened before he met Sonic.

[Sean]

One game, then! And I'm sure there are other piddling oddities to be found with enough scrutiny, but I can't see room for debate about the series' so-called continuity, aside from one particular wall that was merely a result of multiple production teams. But since the discussion in this topic just happens to be more directed toward examples such as where Sonic CD or Sonic Advance are intended to be or which characters really exist, I have to ask: seriously?

Anyhow, what I was meaning to get at was that the majority of Sonic games barely have any connections with each other, so overall continuity is a non-issue. I wouldn't think hard about this, or even at all.

[Tornado]

Sonic 2 8-Bit couldn't have happened either. Spinball is a right clusterfuck, too.

It wasn't a Sonic Team game

It was arguably more of a Sonic Team game than Sonic 2 was.

(it was developed by another internal SEGA division, as was Chaotix)

The difference being that Chaotix was a side-game with such a tenuous link to the rest of the series that someone at Sega went out of their way to remove Sonic from the game itself, and the other one was directly headed up by one of the original 3 members of Sonic Team.

and it's a total bitch to shoehorn into the classic trilogy's timeline anyways.

It happened before Sonic 2. It is just that easy.

Hell, it could have happened before Sonic 1.

...then how come Eggman goes from the technologically superior Metal Sonic design to the outdated hunk of metal that is Mecha Sonic? That's working backwards.

Makes no sense, I tells ya.

It is only working backwards if Metal Sonic is superior to the one in Sonic 2. And there is basically no evidence even implied that says so.

Reports of my return have been greatly exaggerated.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Tornado

[AAUK]

After reading through that SEGA Forums thread I can safely say that AAUK has no idea what he's talking about.

I beg to differ.

RE: Sonic City - I didn't code the site no, but I wrote a hell of a lot of it, all the character text and bios had to be approved by Sonic Team and when I came in a lot of what had already been done I had to completely re-write had to be fixed.

[ArtFenix]

I heard you say that the rush series isn't canon, but colors is. Haha! If colors is canon and rushes is not, how do you explain the fact that in colors ds Sonic and Tails know who is Blaze and Blaze knows who're they? How do you explain that Sonic knows Marine and asks Blaze how's she doing? I see A CONTRADICTION there.

I think every game that has connections with previous games is canon. At lease advances, rushes and chronicles with battle are canon.

[SEGAMew]

We all know handheld game stories run on their canon timeline separate to the big console timeline.

Surely both Winter Olympic timelines on Wii and DS did not happen on the same plane simultaneously!

[Core]

I heard you say that the rush series isn't canon, but colors is. Haha! If colors is canon and rushes is not, how do you explain the fact that in colors ds Sonic and Tails know who is Blaze and Blaze knows who're they? How do you explain that Sonic knows Marine and asks Blaze how's she doing? I see A CONTRADICTION there.

He actually said that Colors Wii is canon, but that Colors DS is not.

[AAUK]

I heard you say that the rush series isn't canon, but colors is. Haha! If colors is canon and rushes is not, how do you explain the fact that in colors ds Sonic and Tails know who is Blaze and Blaze knows who're they? How do you explain that Sonic knows Marine and asks Blaze how's she doing? I see A CONTRADICTION there.

I think every game that has connections with previous games is canon. At lease advances, rushes and chronicles with battle are canon.

He actually said that Colors Wii is canon, but that Colors DS is not.

You beat me to it Core.. both DS and Wii stories can't both have happened moving forward.

Sorry to have dampened your all too obvious glee ArtFenix.

[Marcello]

I don't get why Riders is canon.

Also, I want Rush and Rush Adventure to be canon :V I don't see why they aren't

[SEGAMew]

I saw Riders aS canon as Sonic underground to be honest. Their canon stops just outside the border of their respective universes.

[ArtFenix]

You beat me to it Core.. both DS and Wii stories can't both have happened moving forward.

Sorry to have dampened your all too obvious glee ArtFenix.

I don't give up so easily xD. I remember someone from Sega said that the DS version is a part of the freaking story, it helps to better understand what the story is about or something. So how is that the Wii version is canon and the DS version that expands the story is not?

Seriously, AUK, you work for Sega, ok, but you are not a part of the development team. What gives you the power to tell what's canon and what's not?

both DS and Wii stories can't both have happened moving forward.

Why not? I see no reason to say such things. I believe they could be parts of one story. And the appearance of side characters are SIDE missions, they don't influence the plot.

Edited February 20, 2011 by ArtFenix

[Indigo Rush]

Well, if the community manager of SEGA fails to satisfy your itching ears, be our guest and believe what you want to believe... but don't expect us to tell you what you want to hear.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[ArtFenix]

First of all: he's a fan of Sonic, just like us. Then he's cummunity manager, but he's neither Iizuka, nor a part of sonicteam. Those people are in charge of making games. AUK is not. But if he spoke to the guys from sonicteam i might change my mind.

I'm not like you. I'm not gonna trust somebody just because he/she works for Sega, but is not connected with the developers.

And i don't see ANYTHING that could make sonic colors ds/sonic chronicles stories non canon. I mean, really? What makes them non canon, huh?

Edited February 20, 2011 by ArtFenix

[Indigo Rush]

First of all: he's a fan of Sonic, just like us. Then he's cummunity manager, but he's neither Iizuka, nor a part of sonicteam. Those people are in charge of making games. AUK is not. But if he spoke to the guys from sonicteam i might change my mind.

I'm not like you. I'm not gonna trust somebody just because he/she works for Sega, but is not connected with the developers.

Except that he is in contact with Sonic Team. Did you even read the topic? Also, you're a fan, just like us, so by your logic, I should trust you in the same manner in which you trust AAUK, meaning, not at all. Again, he is connected with the developers.

I'm not like you. I'm not going to type up a poorly written (and how!) response in favor of my own personal desires for what I want the series to be, nor will I resort to making asinine assumptions about others.

Edit:

And i don't see ANYTHING that could make sonic colors ds/sonic chronicles stories non canon. I mean, really? What makes them non canon, huh?

Well, for one, the developers said so through AAUK. But beyond that, how about the fact that Sonic Chronicles as a series has been scrapped, and BioWare won't be making anymore? Additionally, for Sonic Colors DS, you can't reconcile the Wii and DS versions for the inclusions Yacker's mom. That's just off the top of my head.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[ArtFenix]

Ok, since i made everything clear..

Ok, if he's connected with the developers then i should reconsider.

BTW what makes my posts poorly writen? I don't show arrogance and unlike some people don't click on "-" just because i disagree with somebody.

how about the fact that Sonic Chronicles as a series has been scrapped, and BioWare won't be making anymore

You know, that reminds me of Castlevania:circle of the moon. The develpoers once said that it's not canon, though it had absolutely nothing in it to consider it a not canon game. Funnily enogh, they later reconsidered and said it's canon.[i heard that, but i'm not sure]

What's the way of considering something not canon anyway? It's like if one of Harry Potter books [or any other book] was not very great and that would make it not canon? Who cares if it's connected with the previous games more than every other book [in this case, game]? That's stupid. But in the end it's up to developers to decide, so..

you can't reconcile the Wii and DS versions for the inclusions Yacker's mom. That's just off the top of my head.

Yaker's mom doesn't afflict the story at all. I hate that damn thing as much as you do, but that's not really a reason to consider a game non canon, is it?^^ Edited February 20, 2011 by ArtFenix