Sonic's Greatest Rival

[hebitaka]

Who do you think it is and why?

[slam422]

Metal Sonic, because that's what he was created to be: Sonic's ultimate rival & foe.

Though I guess the same could be said about Shadow, seeing as how they bot share many of the same abilities. Still, I choose Metal over Shadow because of the fact that Shadow could care less about outdoing Sonic, whereas that's Metal's main directive: to outdo & defeat Sonic.

[Saint Nathan]

Metal Sonic.

He turns into a fucking dragon.

All Shadow does is cry about that blond chick whats-her-face.

[hebitaka]

Metal Sonic.

He turns into a fucking dragon.

All Shadow does is cry about that blond chick whats-her-face.

Since when does he do that now?

And isn't Metal a villain while Shadow is a hero?

Edited March 7, 2011 by hebitaka

[-Mark-]

The lack of Jet-mentioning in this topic disappoints me. D:

Seriously, but sorry. I see Metal Sonic as enemy material, not a rival. Metal Sonic was made to kill Sonic, not just race or fight him. In fact, let me find, copy and paste my big long post I made a while back about why Jet is the only proper, valid rival Sonic actually has;

I love the Babylon Rogues as characters, Jet in particular as I find him to be the first 'proper' Rival character for Sonic. Knuckles is basically a hotheaded, comic-relief friend now, Shadow more of an anti-hero (or just straight up brooding good-guy these days), and the less said about Metal Sonic as a character the better. Jet's awesome in that he's actually an honest-to-goodness rival for Sonic, based solely on the speed factor. Insult him all you want for using an Extreme Gear instead of running, but to be honest, the way I see it, everyone knows Sonic can run the fastest. I see Sonic accepting Jet as a rival for something else, in that sense- he knows if it was a foot race, he'd win, but he wants to give Extreme Gears a shot as well, because to Sonic, he wants to be the fastest ateverything, not just running (make your own jokes), so therefore still sees Jet as a valid, fair rival. I also love how Jet's character has developed, ironically, in Free Riders. Whereas he had no qualms about cheating to win the finals of the original EX World Grand Prix, when he suspects Wave of helping him cheat in Zero Gravity, he gets really annoyed. He's definitely matured as a character, without falling into the typical pattern of 'becoming a friend'.

Yes, Knuckles, Shadow, and to some extent Metal Sonic still retain aspects of being a rival, but none of them really fit the bill properly in my opinion, in that they've more or less fallen into the 'friend' or enemy' categories.

EDIT:

And isn't Metal a villain while Shadow is a hero?

This. http://board.sonicstadium.org/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png' alt=';)'>

Edited March 7, 2011 by -Mark-

[Marcello]

I don't see anybody really as a rival. When I think of a Rival I think of Blue/Gary from Pokemon. Someone who makes the main character want to get better to surpass him. They have similar goals etc.

[hebitaka]

I don't see anybody really as a rival. When I think of a Rival I think of Blue/Gary from Pokemon. Someone who makes the main character want to get better to surpass him. They have similar goals etc.

Technically in rivals 2 profile. Shadow is stated to view sonic as his rival and equal in all apespects of his life, and in colors wanted to test Sonic's capabilites in defeating eggman with missions. Because Shadow has such a high opinion in his abilites, he wanted to see if Sonic had the same potential.

[CanofEpicSauce]

Knuckles the Echidna.

[DarkLight]

Knuckles the Echidna.

Care to explain why?

[Kuzu]

Looks like someone hijacked my topic from the Sega Forums.

But anyway I like them all, they have something to bring in terms of rivalry, but I'd Metal is more of a Arch Enemy than a rival.

[Dr. Crusher]

Jet's the closest to being a proper rival character. Knuckles only gets involved when Robotnik tricks him, Metal's too much of an enemy and doesn't put enough focus on him being a robotic Sonic, and the most you'll get from Shadow are snarky comments and fans constantly trying to create the bizarre illusion that there actually is a rivalry nowadays. (Not that the Sonic VS Knuckles fans are any better.) Robotnik also doesn't count, because he's the main fucking villain, not a lowly "rival". Mario's out as well because he's Nintendo - that and because, hey guys, they don't have to hate each other. Just because Sonic VS Mario would be a cool fight doesn't mean they have to tear each other's guts apart. Ever think they could become great friends?

So yeah. Jet's the closest to being the number one rival at this point.

But Johnny's better.

[Vertekins]

The lack of Jet-mentioning in this topic disappoints me. D:

That's probably because Jet is a joke. Especially when he uses HOVER BOARD RACES of all things to gauge who is the fastest creature in the universe. Sonic is, hoverboard or otherwise. Kthnksbai. Jet is only a 'rival' when he is cheating. The only reason he 'won' over Sonic in the first Ex World Grand Prix is because Wave made sure he would win.

I do not consider Shadow to be Sonic's ultimate rival purely because Sonic is ALWAYS nerfed to a truly ludicrous degree in fights with Shadow across continuities with the sole exception of Archies 25 Years Later Arc in a misguided and thoroughly unconvincing effort to make Shadow look like more of a badass. Those fights are no material to consider when it comes to gauging rivalry because it is thouroughly unfair to Sonic.

I'd consider Metal Sonic to be the ultimate rival. It's clearly been said that it's able to surpass Sonic's speed, it's persistence and perserverance makes it particularly deadly and whilst it could do with more competence, there's no real doubting that it is an extremely tough opponent for Sonic to outrace or outfight single-handedly.

[Kuzu]

Jet's the closest to being a proper rival character. Knuckles only gets involved when Robotnik tricks him, Metal's too much of an enemy and doesn't put enough focus on him being a robotic Sonic, and the most you'll get from Shadow are snarky comments and fans constantly trying to create the bizarre illusion that there actually is a rivalry nowadays. (Not that the Sonic VS Knuckles fans are any better.) Robotnik also doesn't count, because he's the main fucking villain, not a lowly "rival". Mario's out as well because he's Nintendo - that and because, hey guys, they don't have to hate each other. Just because Sonic VS Mario would be a cool fight doesn't mean they have to tear each other's guts apart. Ever think they could become great friends?

So yeah. Jet's the closest to being the number one rival at this point.

But Johnny's better.

Was the long break really neccasary? Anyway doesn't the fact that Sonic fights Knuckles/Shadow kinda contributes to a rivalry.

That's probably because Jet is a joke. Especially when he uses HOVER BOARD RACES of all things to gauge who is the fastest creature in the universe. Sonic is, hoverboard or otherwise. Kthnksbai. Jet is only a 'rival' when he is cheating. The only reason he 'won' over Sonic in the first Ex World Grand Prix is because Wave made sure he would win.

I do not consider Shadow to be Sonic's ultimate rival purely because Sonic is ALWAYS nerfed to a truly ludicrous degree in fights with Shadow across continuities with the sole exception of Archies 25 Years Later Arc in a misguided and thoroughly unconvincing effort to make Shadow look like more of a badass. Those fights are no material to consider when it comes to gauging rivalry because it is thouroughly unfair to Sonic.

I'd consider Metal Sonic to be the ultimate rival. It's clearly been said that it's able to surpass Sonic's speed, it's persistence and perserverance makes it particularly deadly and whilst it could do with more competence, there's no real doubting that it is an extremely tough opponent for Sonic to outrace or outfight single-handedly.

How is Sonic nerfed anytime he fights Shadow?

[Indigo Rush]

Was the long break really neccasary? Anyway doesn't the fact that Sonic fights Knuckles/Shadow kinda contributes to a rivalry.

How is Sonic nerfed anytime he fights Shadow?

Did you really need to quote that? I mean, come on.

As for this topic, I'm sure there are at least 3 others like this floating around.

And by the way, Sonic's rival is, and always has been, Dr. Eggman.

[Vertekins]

How is Sonic nerfed anytime he fights Shadow?

Shadow The Hedgehog. Sonic and Diablon Boss Fight. What can Sonic do? Errr....run around. And Homing Attack occasionally. And stand around like a complete idiot for many seconds on end almost begging to be attacked. Shall I also mention that the blue idiot also AIDS Shadow into attacking Diablon by effectively allowing him to jump off of him in order to reach Diablon's 'head'?

Sonic Battle. Sonic has been referred to time and time again to be the fastest Hedgehog in the world. Unless this quote does not take into account transgenic Hedgehogs then why does Shadow have greater foot speed? The only thing inferior about Shadow compared to Sonic is his heal ability. Nothing else is inferior or identical in Sonic Battle.

Sonic X. Episode 73. We've seen Sonic throughout the entire series take punishment that would undoubtedly kill any human male of prestigious strength instantly. We've seen him display immense physical strength such as pushing against Guerra Hard's arm that his pinning him against a wall in episode 13 or carrying fairly weighty loads such as Chris' mom (Episode 19), a boat (episode 14) or metal girders (Episode 54). So please convicingly tell me why Sonic got very easily overpowered by Shadow when they're pushing against each other or why a single spin attack rendered him unconcious instantly in ep 73? And I'll add that he was so "badly injured" that he couldn't go and protect Tails and Cosmo at any point in the episode. All from a single spin attack courtesy of Shadow.

Sonic shows no competence in most fights against Shadow that you'd expect given his array of consistent attributes. He is nerfed in fights against Shadow in a vain effort to reinforce Shadow as the God Mode Sue and Black Hole Sue.

[RootingForTheEmpire]

I think Sonic's greatest rival is Eggman. Whilst Eggman is the main villain, he is still undoubtedly a rival of Sonic's and has been since his debut. Most games come down to the fight between Sonic and Eggman if you look at it(and ignore any final bossmonsters)- it's always been Sonic rushing to stop Eggman's plots, and Eggman trying to stop Sonic from stopping him. And whenever they come into direct contact, there's always that clashing of great egos- Sonic's general cockiness vs. Eggman's borderline narcissism and superiority complex.

Also, they fight a whole bunch, Sonic 1-Colours, etc.

[DarkLight]

I think Sonic's greatest rival is Eggman. Whilst Eggman is the main villain, he is still undoubtedly a rival of Sonic's and has been since his debut. Most games come down to the fight between Sonic and Eggman if you look at it(and ignore any final bossmonsters)- it's always been Sonic rushing to stop Eggman's plots, and Eggman trying to stop Sonic from stopping him. And whenever they come into direct contact, there's always that clashing of great egos- Sonic's general cockiness vs. Eggman's borderline narcissism and superiority complex.

Also, they fight a whole bunch, Sonic 1-Colours, etc.

Well generally, when people say, "Who's Sonic's Best Rival?" they usually mean who has a greater or equal equivalent of speed compared to Sonic, not nescessarily who has the bigger ego.

[Diogenes]

They're all pretty much shit.

Metal Sonic barely ever shows up.

Knuckles is Sidekick #2 now, not a rival.

Shadow's almost always off on his own business, and even when he's with Sonic there's barely any rivalry between them.

Jet just rides hoverboards.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If I had to truly decide, it would be Jet. He's the only character who actually competes with Sonic, so he's the only one who is actually a rival in that regard.

However, it's a bit dysfunction that he wants to prove he's the fastest seeing as how he's only capable of being fast on a hoverboard as opposed to a footrace tho. And it's further complicated when he acknowledges Sonic being the fastest on the ground.

Not sure how being fast in the air is comparable to that of the ground, but I don't want to bring any physics into this.

[RootingForTheEmpire]

Well generally, when people say, "Who's Sonic's Best Rival?" they usually mean who has a greater or equal equivalent of speed compared to Sonic, not nescessarily who has the bigger ego.

...

[Nepenthe]

Speed is not only applicable to foot travel. In the real world, we attribute different things as being the"fastest," and it is in context that Jet's rivalry with Sonic has validity. For example, the cheetah, the peregrine falcon, and the bullet shrimp, (that's its name, right?), are all the fastest animals in the world, just in different ways, but the cheetah's abilities do not invalidate the other two animals' feats simply because it runs. That is Jet's insistence: To be called the "fastest in the world" can also prompt one to demonstrate this talent in other fields.

Off-topic a bit, but this "feetses only!" thinking seems silly in its short-sightedness. It's the reason I facepalm whenever there's bitching over Sonic's use of a vehicle, and the reason I wonder why people don't give Jet the time of day but excuse Metal and Shadow despite the fact that they use rockets and hover skates respectively; They're not running either. xP

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

...

That's kind of an unnecessary way of making them get the point, don't cha think?

Off-topic a bit, but this "feetses only!" thinking seems silly in its short-sightedness. It's the reason I facepalm whenever there's bitching over Sonic's use of a vehicle, and the reason I wonder why people don't give Jet the time of day but excuse Metal and Shadow despite the fact that they use rockets and hover skates respectively; They're not running either. xP

To be fair, it's still debatable whether Shadow can actually run that fast without his shoes either. And I've yet to see him break the sound barrier.

As for Metal, I have no idea how to go about that...aside from him being more of a vilian than a rival.

Edited March 7, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Scar]

Shadow The Hedgehog. Sonic and Diablon Boss Fight. What can Sonic do? Errr....run around. And Homing Attack occasionally. And stand around like a complete idiot for many seconds on end almost begging to be attacked. Shall I also mention that the blue idiot also AIDS Shadow into attacking Diablon by effectively allowing him to jump off of him in order to reach Diablon's 'head'?

Game logic. If Sonic was able to do more than run around and homing attack, the boss fight would be too easy. You would literally be able to sit there and watch Sonic defeat the boss for you.

Sonic Battle. Sonic has been referred to time and time again to be the fastest Hedgehog in the world. Unless this quote does not take into account transgenic Hedgehogs then why does Shadow have greater foot speed? The only thing inferior about Shadow compared to Sonic is his heal ability. Nothing else is inferior or identical in Sonic Battle.

Not Canon. Its a fighting game, agility =/= speed.

Sonic X. Episode 73. We've seen Sonic throughout the entire series take punishment that would undoubtedly kill any human male of prestigious strength instantly. We've seen him display immense physical strength such as pushing against Guerra Hard's arm that his pinning him against a wall in episode 13 or carrying fairly weighty loads such as Chris' mom (Episode 19), a boat (episode 14) or metal girders (Episode 54). So please convicingly tell me why Sonic got very easily overpowered by Shadow when they're pushing against each other or why a single spin attack rendered him unconcious instantly in ep 73? And I'll add that he was so "badly injured" that he couldn't go and protect Tails and Cosmo at any point in the episode. All from a single spin attack courtesy of Shadow.

Sonic X Episode 73 is NOT canon, and is in no way related to the main series. Citing that as a reason as to why Sonic is nerfed against Shadow is completely pointless, because it makes no difference. Its the equivalent of me drawing a fanfic where Shadow is an all-powerful god that reigns supreme over all. That doesn't suddenly mean the canon changes itself so that Sonic is now weaker than Shadow.

Sonic shows no competence in most fights against Shadow that you'd expect given his array of consistent attributes. He is nerfed in fights against Shadow in a vain effort to reinforce Shadow as the God Mode Sue and Black Hole Sue.

How? You've uses non-canon references to support your claims. They are invalid.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Scar

[Nepenthe]

Well, if Shadow's abilities are debatable, he should be barred from discussion regarding speed-based rivalries until we come to a consensus. Metal should be barred outright; Rocket boosters don't count.

[Vertekins]

Off-topic a bit, but this "feetses only!" thinking seems silly in its short-sightedness. It's the reason I facepalm whenever there's bitching over Sonic's use of a vehicle, and the reason I wonder why people don't give Jet the time of day but excuse Metal and Shadow despite the fact that they use rockets and hover skates respectively; They're not running either. xP

But Jet proclaims that whoever gets to the top of Crimson Tower first takes the title of Fastest Creature in the Universe. They're using Extreme Gear. Not their own bodies. So Jet's proclamation should be more like "Fastest Gear in the Universe" and/or possibly "Best Gear Rider", not fastest creature in the universe.

I totally agree though when it comes to Shadow and Metal using propulsion in order to match Sonic's speed. It can be argued that Shadow is not using natural speed because in that SA2 cutscene after Iron Gate, he actually floats in the air using his shoes jets, proving that they do provide some form of propulsion. That is not innate bodily speed. It's either that or his shoes provide a cushion of air to prevent friction that would prevent him reaching Sonic's speed. His Sonic Battle Run Ability outright states that he's using Jet Shoe propulsion in order to run at speeds greater than Sonic.

And as for Metal. Well. His specs say it all really.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Verte