Sonic's Greatest Rival

[HunterTSF]

Does it really matter? The bottom line is they still have competitions with each other, whether its on Hoverboards or not. IF that's the case then I could say Jet doesn't count as a rival because he appears in a pair of spin offs.

Unlike Jet's personal rivalry with Sonic, Shadow did not face Sonic on his own accord in Free Riders - he only faced him because that's who his team was assigned to go up against in the EX World Gran Prix. It wasn't his personal choice. If you say that everybody is a rival of one another just because they competed in the competition against their assigned opponents, you'd get bizarre rivalries that make no sense such as E-10000B v. Cream or Tails v. Storm.

Furthermore, everybody fought everybody without much reason in the Rivals games. That was the entire point of the series. But nobody uses that as justification for Tails v. Espio as a legitimate rivalry.

Anywho, on topic - Sonic's greatest rival is Sonic Man. 'Nuff said.

lol jk, Jet and Johnny 100%

[Kuzu]

Everyone competes with everyone from time to time, when you bring party games and the Rivals subseries into the mix.

If that's the case, what makes Shadow any less of a rival than Jet?

Jet's a different case since his entire existence is contained within those spinoffs.

But its non-canon, so according to you it shoudn't matter.

I dunno. Takes place in a major game, isn't just one fight out of a group of equally (ir)relevant fights?

Considering Shadow hasn't been in a main game since 06(Which was full of problems itself) its really early to tell then, but like I said in almost every spin off they fight each other at least once. And wouldn't Sonic & Jet's fights count as irrelevant then? Considering they're racing never has a huge impact on anything.

[Nepenthe]

I agree that they have a rivalry, but it's not about the same things as with Metal and Shadow. Jet's rivalry is based on Gear riding, which is just something Sonic took up as a hobby (and/or to get into Eggman's tournament). Shadow and Metal are challenging Sonic's on-foot speed, whether or not they're cheating to do it.

Pardon me for saying, but I'm not sure how this is relevant. A rivalry's a rivalry, isn't it, (although I'd argue Johnny and Jet are the only two traditional rivals)?

At what point did effort and skill come into this? Metal's engine is build into his body, thus it is his speed, regardless of how much skill or effort it requires to use (and the same would be true if he used his just-as-mechanical legs to match Sonic's speed). Jet is using a separate piece of equipment.

You responded to another member that skill was irrevelant in regards to how Jet achieved his speed. The same is true to an extent for Shadow and undoubtedly so for Metal because the former uses less skill than Sonic by relying on decreased friction and the latter because all he's doing is arguably flipping a switch and riding it out, which I'm free to maintain doesn't count simply because it's built into his body. In short, sprint or go home.

Which makes him a good rider. It doesn't make him fast.

It makes him fast in the context of vehicular racing. No one called Dale Earnhardt slow just because he drove a car. It was innately understood that his piloting skills made him fast in the context of the competition, same with Jet. Again, speed is not only applicable to leg work.

Metal isn't using "mechanical assistance"; he is the machine. We wouldn't say Sonic is using organic assistance because he's using muscles to pull on his bones in a way that propels him forward. On the other hand, if he had to ride a horse to go fast, one could call that organic assistance, in the same way that riding a hoverboard is mechanical assistance.

I thought "organic assistance," e.g., running, was actually the task in which these characters were rivalling each other in in this discussion, and that mechanical assistance, regardless of whether it was necessary for a character's speed or not, invalidated characters like Jet from being proper rivals in that regard.

And excuse the formatting and lateness; I'm on a phone.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Kuzu]

Unlike Jet's personal rivalry with Sonic, Shadow did not face Sonic on his own accord in Free Riders - he only faced him because that's who his team was assigned to go up against in the EX World Gran Prix. It wasn't his personal choice. If you say that everybody is a rival of one another just because they competed in the competition against their assigned opponents, you'd get bizarre rivalries that make no sense such as E-10000B v. Cream or Tails v. Storm.

Furthermore, everybody fought everybody without much reason in the Rivals games. That was the entire point of the series. But nobody uses that as justification for Tails v. Espio as a legitimate rivalry.

Anywho, on topic - Sonic's greatest rival is Sonic Man. 'Nuff said.

lol jk, Jet and Johnny 100%

But didn't Sonic & Jet's rivaly start because of the Ex World Grand Prix? Rivals are supposed to challenge the hero's abilities. both Shadow & Jet do this, so even if they fought because of an official standing, the bottom line is both Shadow & Jet challenge Sonic in terms of speed, so I ask, What makes Shadow any less of a rival than Jet? Jet's only difference is that he takes it more personal than Shadow.

[Carbo]

Who do you think it is and why?

He has consistency.

[Kuzu]

He has consistency.

lol Though Sonic may have finally beaten the ocean in Colors.

[SykoTech]

It's ironic. Sega's given Sonic so many "rivals" like Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze, and Silver. Yet none of them really count as rivals too much. They fought Sonic because he was either their enemy or in their way, but they've never really expressed personal interest in proving their better than Sonic. Maybe in a few spin-offs where there forced to compete (Battle, Rivals, Free Riders). But in the main games? Nope.

Metal Sonic in Sonic Heroes was probably the closest thing Sonic had to a great rival. He didn't just see Sonic as an pest like Shadow and Blaze did. Nor did he just see Sonic as an enemy to eliminate like Knuckles and Silver did. Sonic was someone he was striving to defeat for personal reasons. Proving himself to be better than Sonic was one of his biggest goals. Sure, you could say the same about Jet or Johnny, but they only compete in vehicle racing. I don't think such a limited form of competition deserves the title of "Greatest Rival".

Unfortunately, Metal Sonic is a soulless robot programmed to do whatever Eggman wants in the other games. He had a distinct personality in Heroes, but that was a one-time thing.

...so, yeah. Sonic doesn't really have a greatest rival. Eggman would probably qualify for that title before any of the others.

Edited March 7, 2011 by SykoTech

[SKSpawn]

Hm, I think Sonic's problem seems to be he has too many rivals, really.

Eggman is is main rival, in that they always clash over their ideals. Although they began as foes, they seem to have more of a cat-and-mouse game feeling to them now, where they face off for sport. So, in effect, rather than saving the world from pollution or freeing his animal buddies from a madman, Sonic is facing Eggman to test his natural skills against Eggman's mechanical ones- this is a form of rivalry.

Metal Sonic is an extension of this. Created by Eggman to match and out-perform Sonic in every way, Metal Sonic can do what Eggman, as a fat old man, is unable to do. As Metal Sonic looks just like him, is super strong, can harness the powers of the Chaos Emeralds, and can move at super fast speeds, of course Sonic engages him in combat eagerly- he wants to prove that his natural ability to do all those things i better than Metal Sonic's man-made ability, which is another rivalry. You can say both these characters are his arch-enemies, and like I said I believe Eggman once was, but considering Metal Sonic doesn't technically have a personality of his own much, or much independence (Sonic Heroes dropped the ball on his insurrection), I don't think you can say Metal Sonic is his arch-enemy because Metal Sonic cannot feel the necessary emotions (rage, jealousy, pride, etc) to facilitate it.

Knuckles was the first animal-based rival Sonic had; he could do everything Sonic can do, but was stronger, sneakier, and constantly dogged Sonic's progress. Even after he found out he'd been tricked, he was reluctant to help and game manuals often stated that he was antagonistic towards Sonic. However, I think really their rivalry only lasted for about three games (Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, Triple Trouble), after which they became friendly rivals- whenever some kind of race was involved (for the Chaos Emeralds or whatever) or some kind of competition was involved (car racing, fighting, etc), there's usually some kind of line between the two where they wind each other up. Again, Sonic and Knuckles will often compete in friendly competitions to test their skills, making them rivals in a sense.

Shadow was more of the mirror of Sonic to begin with, sort of the anti-Sonic, whose motivations were to destroy the world using the powers Sonic used to save it. Given that he was allied with Eggman and ruining Sonic's reputation, the two had a fierce rivalry in Sonic Adventure 2. They may have set aside their differences to save the world, but their rivalry never really died out; whenever they encounter each other, they always engage in tests of speed and ability, trying to out perform each other and test their abilities. This is a rivalry; it's not as friendly as Sonic's rivalry with Knuckles due to Shadow's disposition, but it's a rivalry nonetheless. Shadow's abilities (Chaos Control, rocket boots, etc) make him Sonic equal, and again Sonic jumps at any chance to show that his natural abilities are better than Shadow's.

Jet is an obvious rival; his ability to ride Extreme Gear makes him the fastest, most talented Gear rider around, his reputation matched only by Sonic's abilities on foot. To me, this would be like a race car driver testing his driving skills against a motorcycle rider- its not just the vehicle, but the person riding/driving it that wins the race- you can't build skill! Thus, the two clash because Jet is the fastest at Extreme Gear and Sonic is fastest one foot. Sonic knows he lacks Jet's skill at Extreme Gear, so he takes up the challenge to master it and put Jet's abilities to the test. jet, however, has no compulsion about ditching the Gear to foot-race Sonic; he knows where his talent lies, and sets the rules firmly in his court. As they still clash in an antagonistic way, they are still rivals.

Other rivals include Johnny, Silver, Chaos, Emerl...in fact, most of the prominent antagonists in the games are set up as Sonic's rivals (Jet being the most obvious, I guess. A case could be made for Shadow ("OMG DARK SONIK!") but the fact remains that Jet, Wave, and Storm were created to specifically rival Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, yet didn't need to be as a suitable rival team (Shadow, Rouge, and Omega) already existed). Sonic is often friendly with a lot of his rivals, but then he's basically a friendly person, most of the time. He doesn't, however, shy away from a challenge or from the chance to test his skills, so anyone he engages in a test of any sort automatically becomes a rival- that's what a rival is, someone who has skills that equal yours, in whatever way, and challenges you to test yours against theirs.

I think some of us are confusing "rival" to mean "enemy", when not all rivals are bad people who must be stopped. There is, after all, nothing wrong with healthy competition.

(By the way, it's totally Mighty )

[Aquaslash]

Metal Sonic is an extension of this. Created by Eggman to match and out-perform Sonic in every way, Metal Sonic can do what Eggman, as a fat old man, is unable to do. As Metal Sonic looks just like him, is super strong, can harness the powers of the Chaos Emeralds, and can move at super fast speeds, of course Sonic engages him in combat eagerly- he wants to prove that his natural ability to do all those things i better than Metal Sonic's man-made ability, which is another rivalry. You can say both these characters are his arch-enemies, and like I said I believe Eggman once was, but considering Metal Sonic doesn't technically have a personality of his own much, or much independence (Sonic Heroes dropped the ball on his insurrection), I don't think you can say Metal Sonic is his arch-enemy because Metal Sonic cannot feel the necessary emotions (rage, jealousy, pride, etc) to facilitate it.

I am not doubting that Metal Sonic CAN use the Chaos Emeralds, but he technically has YET to harness their power. In fact, the only time he's so much as even TOUCHED one of the things is when he hid one inside himself in Rivals 2. What generally happens is that the Chaos Emeralds are used AGAINST Metal Sonic.

That said, a Super Metal Sonic needs to happen!

[The Weeb with No Name]

Silver Sonic.

[Kuzu]

Silver Sonic.

[Indigo Rush]

Sonic's Greatest Rival

Of all time.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[krazystitch]

Definitely Metal Sonic. He's the only one who actually comes back and continuously tries to win against him. Not very often, but he still does it. Knuckles is one of Sonic's buddies now and Sonic has teamed up with Eggman, Jet, and Shadow before. I wouldn't exactly consider those being as strong rivals as Metal Sonic.

Edited March 8, 2011 by krazystitch

[Ferno]

Sonic's Greatest Rival

Of all time.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Inferno

[hebitaka]

Definitely Metal Sonic. He's the only one who actually comes back and continuously tries to win against him. Not very often, but he still does it. Knuckles is one of Sonic's buddies now and Sonic has teamed up with Eggman, Jet, and Shadow before. I wouldn't exactly consider those being as strong rivals as Metal Sonic.

[batson]

As of now, I'd say its only Shadow & Jet if only because they're the only ones who still are antagonist to Sonic nowadays.

Ahem, Metal Sonic? He overcame his own programming twice in order to prove his superiority to Sonic.

[hebitaka]

But he still loses.

[krazystitch]

Again he's evil and always loses. Shadow at least beats Sonic time to time and Sonic takes him seriously.

You don't need to win all the time to be considered a rival to someone. Yeah, Shadow has won some against Sonic, but he's also lost just as many. Maybe even more than Metal Sonic. And, as I said earlier, Sonic and Shadow have even teamed up on several occasions, where as Sonic and Metal Sonic are always against each other to see who is superior.

[hebitaka]

You don't need to win all the time to be considered a rival to someone. Yeah, Shadow has won some against Sonic, but he's also lost just as many. Maybe even more than Metal Sonic. And, as I said earlier, Sonic and Shadow have even teamed up on several occasions, where as Sonic and Metal Sonic are always against each other to see who is superior.

[Indigo Rush]

Bu-bu-but, only teh NEW gaemz have dem der butt-ess pitz!!

[Kuzu]

You don't need to win all the time to be considered a rival to someone. Yeah, Shadow has won some against Sonic, but he's also lost just as many. Maybe even more than Metal Sonic. And, as I said earlier, Sonic and Shadow have even teamed up on several occasions, where as Sonic and Metal Sonic are always against each other to see who is superior.

You can team with someone and still consider them your rival. Sonic & Shadow may team up, but they're not friends, and still compete with each other, hence they're still rivals.

To qualify as a rival you must be able to keep pace with the protagonist in both skill and power, the fact that Metal loses doesn't make him any less of a rival.

Vegeta was always weaker than Goku after his debut, but was the most persistent when it came to surpassing him even after accepting he's the better one, and hence is still considered rival.

[Dr. Crusher]

Was the long break really neccasary? Anyway doesn't the fact that Sonic fights Knuckles/Shadow kinda contributes to a rivalry.

Lol no. That's like saying the Big Bully from Mario 64 is a rival just because he fought Mario.

Also, if don't like page breaks, you could have simply shortened the break when you quoted me.

They're all pretty much shit.

Metal Sonic barely ever shows up.

Knuckles is Sidekick #2 now, not a rival.

Shadow's almost always off on his own business, and even when he's with Sonic there's barely any rivalry between them.

Jet just rides hoverboards.

I believe the apparently required role of "Sonic's Rival" is overrated anyways.

[hebitaka]

You can team with someone and still consider them your rival. Sonic & Shadow may team up, but they're not friends, and still compete with each other, hence they're still rivals.

To qualify as a rival you must be able to keep pace with the protagonist in both skill and power, the fact that Metal loses doesn't make him any less of a rival.

Vegeta was always weaker than Goku after his debut, but was the most persistent when it came to surpassing him even after accepting he's the better one, and hence is still considered rival.

This, out of all of Sonic's rivals, Shadow's the one who consistantly grows as powerful as the main character therefore is the only one who can competew with him due to feats and showings of said power.

In non cannon, Shadow has beaten Sonic's past rivals to.

[Kuzu]

Lol no. That's like saying the Big Bully from Mario 64 is a rival just because he fought Mario.

Also, if don't like page breaks, you could have simply shortened the break when you quoted me.

I already listed what it means to be a rival in my previous post:

To qualify as a rival you must be able to keep pace with the protagonist in both skill and power, the fact that Metal loses doesn't make him any less of a rival.

And I was speaking in general about the break thing, any moving on.

I believe the apparently required role of "Sonic's Rival" is overrated anyways.

Doesn't that make Robotnik overrated? OH SNAP!!

[Dr. Crusher]

No it doesn't.

Robotnik will always be an enemy in my eyes, and no amount of tarnishing via Sonic X will change that.