Sonic's Greatest Rival

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Except that's not what you were suggesting, you were suggesting giving Sonic more powers to "even" the playing field, if Sonic needs to struggle against his rivals, he doesn't need more powers to do so.

 

Honestly, one thing that Sonic needs in order to struggle against his rivals is to make the Rival's powers ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING against him. Seriously, for being so powerful, you'd think the rivals would have at least been able to win once against Sonic, but the current status quo doesn't let Sonic so much as face a minor conflict without it being fixed by someone else's incompetence (Eggman's Mind Control Beam in Colors comes to mind) or just simply end up being easily steamrolled over (a lot of things I can't remember right now).

 

Of course, Sonic's other skill would be the ability to adapt quickly and improvise strategies better than any of the other cast members, so he can level the playing field.

Edited March 15, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Except that's not what you were suggesting, you were suggesting giving Sonic more powers to "even" the playing field, if Sonic needs to struggle against his rivals, he doesn't need more powers to do so.

Then you haven't been reading my whole posts, because that IS what I was suggesting the whole time. I've said it so much, that I'm surprised you missed it.

 

Me advocating giving him another power was only part of that, and I've said that like...what...twice throughout all my posts (and hardly gave any further weight to what those extra powers would be)? What in the world did you think I meant when I was talking about and bringing up examples about how dominates all the others when I was talking about things like the I even used for what I was talking about.

 

Edit: And furthermore, you said you weren't talking about Gameplay, and yet you're contradicting yourself by throwing the "It's a video game" card.

Edited March 15, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

Then you haven't been reading my whole posts, because that IS what I was suggesting the whole time. I've said it so much, that I'm surprised you missed it.

 

Me advocating giving him another power was only part of that, and I've said that like...what...twice throughout all my posts (and hardly gave any further weight to what those extra powers would be)? What in the world did you think I meant when I was talking about and bringing up examples about how dominates all the others when I was talking about things like the I even used for what I was talking about.

 

Edit: And furthermore, you said you weren't talking about Gameplay, and yet you're contradicting yourself by throwing the "It's a video game" card.

 

If that's what you're referring to, then you still don't need to give Sonic any new powers. A seemingly weak ability can be pretty damn broken depending on how you use it; it doesn't matter how many fancy moves a master swordsman has, a bullet between the eyes from the average joe is enough to take him down regardless. This quite from Bruce Lee basically sums it up:

 

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who had practiced one kick 10,000 times.”

 

 

It's not what you have, it's how you use it.

 

 

As for the second part, I said it's a video game because the way the plots are structured, Sonic is going to outpace his rivals eventually. It's an inevitable thing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If that's what you're referring to, then you still don't need to give Sonic any new powers. 

And like I said for the second time, I've hardly given that thought any further weight other than "I'd like to give him a new power", dude.

A seemingly weak ability can be pretty damn broken depending on how you use it; it doesn't matter how many fancy moves a master swordsman has, a bullet between the eyes from the average joe is enough to take him down regardless.

Yeah, kinda like the I gave you earlier...or when I said,

 

As for the second part, I said it's a video game because the way the plots are structured, Sonic is going to outpace his rivals eventually. It's an inevitable thing.

And yet that was completely beside the point that I was talking about the whole time...

Edited March 15, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

And like I said for the second time, I've hardly given that thought any further weight other than "I'd like to give him a new power", dude.

Ok, I'm just saying it's not exactly needed, can I disagree with it?

 

Yeah, kinda like the I gave you earlier...or when I said,

The glass cannon example doesn't exactly fit Sonic, and I admittedly missed the second point.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Ok, I'm just saying it's not exactly needed, can I disagree with it?

I'm pointing out that I didn't really say enough for you to base my whole argument around it. I just wanted to make that clear, since it didn't appear you got it.

The glass cannon example doesn't exactly fit Sonic, and I admittedly missed the second point.

Also pay note that I wasn't even talking about a specific character about the Glass Cannon when it was still talking about strengths and weaknesses. You weren't either when I brought it up again, so I don't see how in the hell that's even a counterargument.

Edited March 15, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[SenEDDtor Missile]

So based on the conversation above, would something like this suffice?

 

Sonic:

Pro/Con: decent at many things, Master of Nothing except Speed and good maneuverability.

Pro: Highly Adaptable, improviser.

 

Shadow:

Pro: High Mastery of Chaos Powers, Strong Ranged Attacks.

Con: Takes Hits like a paper bag (doesn't get killed, but gets the wind knocked out of him easily), Excess use of Chaos Powers drains him.

 

Knuckles:

Pro: High Physical Resilience and Physical Strength.

Con: Poor temper control, can be defeated by attrition, slower compared to others.

 

Silver:

Pro: Psychic abilities, strong offense or defense.

Con: Cannot attack and defend simultaneously, defenses can be overwhelmed with enough force (think Violet from The Incredibles).

 

Metal Sonic:

Pro: About as fast as Sonic, Denser Metal Body gives good resilience, very relentless.

Con: Relentlessness makes him prone to barreling through and thus susceptible to traps, electrical surges from body leave him vulnerable, and poor turning.

 

This is based on the most commonly seen "rivals" btw.

Edited March 15, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[Tani Coyote]

What advantage does Sonic have over Shadow again? Ya know, aside from being the protagonist.

 

Yes, this was my point in many posts I've made as of late. That Sonic wins at all is because of protagonist status.

 

Had Sega gone with something Archie-esque like Sonic being the embodiment of chaos and thus unpredictable, I think he'd make up for the apparent weaknesses he has. But since they haven't, it just seems really forced when he ties with someone who's wiser, stronger, and more skilled than him.

 

Normally such a character starts out one-upping you and you grow to match them. The Final Rush/Chase battle best illustrates this; Sonic makes use of the abilities that give Shadow an edge, and they're at such high speeds the strength factor is negligible. They are actually equals in this battle, true rivals.

 

Really it's good Sega set Shadow on the path to being an ally after this because otherwise it would have felt one-sided again given that Sonic never uses his chaos abilities again.

[Mysterious X]

Let's not turn this to Sonic haters okay?!

I used to hate how Sonic had such an ego, how he was rather... Overrated, I hated all that until, I got the PS2 about 4 or 5 years ago, and I got Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, I enjoyed them to the full, and I never forget how enjoyable it was to defeat the final boss in Unleashed with levitatin Super Sonic, so I'm just sayin, let's not forget the idea of the seven Chaos Emeralds havin 'ultimate powers', once Sonic finds them, not Eggman's best machines or Metal Sonic or anyone (who's not a hedgehog) won't stand a chance.

 

But also let's not forget that they always get scattered around the, globe and to make the storyline acceptable they make him look for them all the time, so, why won't some smart evil enemy decide to attack Sonic before it's too late? Let us see what it's like for Sonic to have 'lost' and stop fillin young kids' heads with fake ideals, and then they see all their heroes in real life lose over time and in the end they will either hate Sonic and everythin related to him, or they'll just kill themselves out of depression, cuz the real life is not a Sonic movie.

[Tani Coyote]

Let's not turn this to Sonic haters okay?!

 

I'm not expressing distaste for Sonic, merely the fact his victories and ties seem rather forced. There are not many rivalries in the series because Sonic's never shown getting stronger in most cases; the character he's rivals with almost always has him outgunned in multiple ways and he just magically comes out on top somehow. Because the plot demands it.

 

Let us see what it's like for Sonic to have 'lost' and stop fillin young kids' heads with fake ideals, and then they see all their heroes in real life lose over time and in the end they will either hate Sonic and everythin related to him, or they'll just kill themselves out of depression, cuz the real life is not a Sonic movie.

 

Umm... I don't think it would become quite that extreme. It's just a fact you go down before you go up. Having Sonic have his backside handed to him on a golden ring platter would enhance the realism and create impetus for him to improve his act in some way. As it is he never loses... in a roleplay that would be called godmodding. In a game that's called hero status.

 

To have a fair rivalry, Sonic must lose from time to time. Not a crippling loss, no, but he must be unable to take everything as a game 24/7. Like Johnny Lightfoot's death in StC caused him to re-evaluate how he approached problems. If Shadow or someone else beats him to within an inch of his life, he might make actual effort to improve himself.

[Jolt_TH]

In a lot of the recent games he doesn't really seem to struggle, sure there a few cutscenes where he gets hit or squished, but a few seconds later he triumphs! The struggle never lasts for more than a few seconds, let alone a level or even a portion of the game!

One of my favourite games ever, Skies of Arcadia (which NEEDS to be re-released btw!) you and your team has many points where you are beaten down. First your family and friends are captured and sentenced to execution, then you get separated from the rest of your team and stranded on an island, then you get captured by the enemy and imprisoned and then your base gets anhillated by the enemy (after spending 2-3 hours killing enemies to save up the 95,000 gold it takes to build it!) AND that is just on the FIRST DISK. These parts don't even make up half te story on one disk and don't make it so your character is ALWAYS being beaten, there are tons of times you one-up the main antagonists. They are placed in the right spots in the story so it breaks it up nicely and makes you want to see if you can overcome it! Heck I haven't even reached disk two yet and I've had the game for a good 13 years!

[Mysterious X]

I'm not expressing distaste for Sonic, merely the fact his victories and ties seem rather forced. There are not many rivalries in the series because Sonic's never shown getting stronger in most cases; the character he's rivals with almost always has him outgunned in multiple ways and he just magically comes out on top somehow. Because the plot demands it.

 

I wasn't meanin only you by this but in general.

 

Umm... I don't think it would become quite that extreme. It's just a fact you go down before you go up. Having Sonic have his backside handed to him on a golden ring platter would enhance the realism and create impetus for him to improve his act in some way. As it is he never loses... in a roleplay that would be called godmodding. In a game that's called hero status.

 

To have a fair rivalry, Sonic must lose from time to time. Not a crippling loss, no, but he must be unable to take everything as a game 24/7. Like Johnny Lightfoot's death in StC caused him to re-evaluate how he approached problems. If Shadow or someone else beats him to within an inch of his life, he might make actual effort to improve himself.

 

Well I went off-topic for a moment there, I was talkin about some people who find life a lot different than it is in the perfect life of movies, but Sonic or any other character for some kids can form what we call a role model, we can't deny that many cartoons that are meant basically for kids, focus on teachin children values of family and strong friendship, but I remember many of those that neglected very important things that we learn later as we grow up.

Anyway, there's no doubt that we have seen Sonic gettin beaten for a minute, and just before everyone comes and save him, and then they prepare him for another fight to win anyway, also Shadow isn't the example I want, when the two of them met it was like same speed no one wins, same power no one wins, so without the Emeralds they are even, the fact that Shadow was created as the 'Ultimate Life Form', and then he was the same as Sonic, that's just a way to tell us that Sonic is even to the Ultimate Life Form.

This topic is called 'Sonic's Greatest Rival' and by 'Greatest' do we want someone up to challenge him? Or someone way more powerful to defeat him? Cuz apparently either way there's no such rival.

 

One of my favourite games ever, Skies of Arcadia (which NEEDS to be re-released btw!) you and your team has many points where you are beaten down. First your family and friends are captured and sentenced to execution, then you get separated from the rest of your team and stranded on an island, then you get captured by the enemy and imprisoned and then your base gets anhillated by the enemy (after spending 2-3 hours killing enemies to save up the 95,000 gold it takes to build it!) AND that is just on the FIRST DISK. These parts don't even make up half te story on one disk and don't make it so your character is ALWAYS being beaten, there are tons of times you one-up the main antagonists. They are placed in the right spots in the story so it breaks it up nicely and makes you want to see if you can overcome it! Heck I haven't even reached disk two yet and I've had the game for a good 13 years!

 

That's a bit similar to the game 'Getting up', where the main character always gets beaten by other gangs, isn't it?

Edited March 15, 2013 by Mysterious X

[Shikushi]

I say Metal Sonic. He's just as fast and strong as Sonic, he can copy abilities and turn into a fucking metallic dragon.

[E-122-Psi]

 

Umm... I don't think it would become quite that extreme. It's just a fact you go down before you go up. Having Sonic have his backside handed to him on a golden ring platter would enhance the realism and create impetus for him to improve his act in some way. As it is he never loses... in a roleplay that would be called godmodding. In a game that's called hero status.

 

To have a fair rivalry, Sonic must lose from time to time. Not a crippling loss, no, but he must be unable to take everything as a game 24/7. Like Johnny Lightfoot's death in StC caused him to re-evaluate how he approached problems. If Shadow or someone else beats him to within an inch of his life, he might make actual effort to improve himself.

In fairness, Silver trounced him both occasions in Next Gen, the implication being that if outside interference and eventual change in motives hadn't been in the way, Silver would have killed him rather handily.

 

What do you think of Sonic now after Lost World, where his ego and lack of patience has specifically been shown as causing a hindrance, and him actually being placed in a very fallible situation he is unable to save others.

Edited November 14, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Kuzu]

....Did you really need to respond to a comment from eight months ago.

[E-122-Psi]

There was only one comment thus far that isn't.