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Stacy

Westboro Baptist Church

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I think she was saying it's in poor taste to do this on one of his kid's Facebook pages, which I agree with, especially since he still sees him as his father. I'm the same. I've got no sympathy for Fred nor any care for how he goes, but I don't think my personal hate for the man would prompt me to shit on him in the direct presence of his kids. There has to be a line somewhere.

exactly. i doesnt matter if if he was horrible, its still cruel to go on his kids' facebook pages or blogs and write shit like "I hope Fred gets shat on in his grave" or "I hope his corpse gets rape by a gay man" etc etc. Its fucking sick and people should feel bad. Im usually not angry like this but I hate it. Instead of writing nasty comments show some compassions for the kid.... because hes losing his father. ;p

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As a bisexual man, I too am a part of the group Phelps spent his life preaching hatred against, but I wish no ill will on this man. Rather, I'm disheartened by his wasted life, his severed ties with his own family, and the bitterness that he appears to be taking to his grave. Does he deserve my pity? No, but I can't help but feel it anyway. I look at Phelps and I see not a monster, but a tragically misguided man that was taken in by extremism and hatred. I think about what he could have been, and what he tragically wasn't.

 

I am curious about his ex-communication from Westboro though. Could he have had a late-life change of heart that we didn't know about? It's too early to say, I suppose, but the topic does interest me.

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I don't think Phelps was misguided in the sense that he was totally ignorant. I feel he knew exactly what he was doing the entire time; his whole entire church is a scam to eke money out of civil suits by enraged people. What's an easy way to enrage people? Picket the funerals of gay people and scream they're going to Hell by using the rights given to you by our well-meaning country, of course. Throw on that a dash of extensive child beating, overall cult-rearing, ruination of those he had grudges with, and other psychopathic behaviors, and you have a man who by all accounts is pretty much the definition of evil. I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for the children and gullible people who fell for his disgusting shit and perpetuated his nonsense. I hope they're able to go on without him and better themselves as people. But if there's a positive afterlife, Fred Phelps certainly doesn't deserve to experience it.

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I am curious about his ex-communication from Westboro though. Could he have had a late-life change of heart that we didn't know about? It's too early to say, I suppose, but the topic does interest me.

It's not entirely impossible.

Louis XIV reigned France as pretty much a tyrant. All he cared about was reckless self-indulgence with his lavish palaces and consolidation of power, and he happily sent his people off to war to die en masse. He bankrupted his nation and abused his people to no end.

And yet... the stories about his final years are somewhat interesting. His health rapidly failing and his palaces increasingly empty (rather than being filled with huge parties), he seemed to become cold and reserved. Almost as if he regretted it all.

When he died, his wife wasn't even with him and had run off to a monastery. It is said that when his young grandson, who would become Louis XVI, was near him shortly before he died, he told the boy, "Be a good King," one who would not destroy his country with wars and selfish projects. It could be creative liberty... or it could be that someone who spends their whole life indulging in a vice learns to regret it as they grow older.

Maybe Fred Phelps has, far too late, realized the monster he's unleashed. It seems that very often, it is our own mortality that seems to instill humility and remorse, far too late to be of any use.

He could very well still be the same hate-spewing, bitter person he's been for decades. But at the same time, people can change if they truly want to. We can regret that time we called someone ugly or fat, or having stolen someone's possessions, or having passed that homeless guy without giving him some money. Regret is something every ordinary person can feel, why not someone who's well-known?

The prospect of dying alone and unloved in a hole like a filthy animal does a fine job of making one change your perspective, I'd imagine.

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At this point, all I can safely say is that I feel sorry for the man's family and hope that they can get through this the best way they can. The man himself, my sympathy has died ages ago for, really.

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I'm less happy to see him gone and more upset that throughout his life, he failed to change his ways.  He was a wicked, evil, ignorant, detestable excuse for a human being, but I would have been so happy to have seen him see the error of his ways.  That's wishful thinking, of course, but it would have been a nice thought.

 

Sadly, I don't think this will keep Westboro from continuing their stupidity, so there's hardly any reason to celebrate.  Still, it interests me to know that he was apparently kicked out of his own establishment?  How very curious.

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If nothing else, it makes me optimistic that he started to have a change of opinion... something that wouldn't go over well. Getting kicked out of a church YOU'RE the leader of... is, well, rather strange.

A part of me always thought he might be homosexual deep down himself. It's not uncommon for the most vocal homophobes to be so, a result of extensive denial. So I can't help but wonder on that issue...

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From what I remember, his kids actually think the shit he pulls is moronic. Don't have a source for that but I remember hearsay of it.

 

So Fred Fuckface Phelps is about to kick the bucket? Can't say I'll miss him.

 

Unfortunately his death is insignificant. The pointless protests these idots make to do nothing more than provoke people will continue.

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rant coming:

 

To me the facebook comments are sick. I mean this is someone talking about there dad passing away and not being able to see him because of they way the family is and people are.... yeah. I heard of Westboro by name but I dont know much about them but its something I notice. Its okay to hate someone for their horrible messages but just dont bring that shit to someone whos the child of said person. its cruel.

I agree, cheering about it is kind of barbaric if you ask me. 

 

Yes, this guy was an asshole, and yes he spread a hateful message and offended a lot of people. I don't feel like his death is something to be happy about- it doesn't change a thing in the world. 

 

Maybe he had a change of heart in the end, like people say. If he did that makes this kind of sad. I mean he was a bigot, sure, but that's the kind of thing that's learned- now it seems like he's alone. Sucks for him, really. 

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Oh really? What is his sons moral alignment? Does he believe the poison his father has spread, or is he against him?

 

"Terribly ironic that his devotion to his god ends this way. Destroyed by the monster he made.
 
I feel sad for all the hurt he's caused so many."
it was in the post itself

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Oh really? What is his sons moral alignment? Does he believe the poison his father has spread, or is he against him?

I believe pretty much every one of his kids has gone down the path of "Jesus Dad, this shit is so stupid," and yet still feels, "But I love you regardless." The same way hearing my grandmother's Biblical literalism makes my brain hurt, but I love her dearly. One can say such views don't hurt people, but I don't think it's as simple as that since it can still test a lot of emotions and exposure to scientific theory.

Speaking of which, I don't really see how what he does is any more hateful than the "nonbelievers go to Hell" thing that's implied in a ton of mainstream churches. The Westboro Baptists just aren't as subtle about it. Sure, said churches may say to be kind, but it doesn't hide the fact they still think you ultimately are going to endure eternal pain and suffering because of what you believe (or don't). I'd consider that a pretty cruel, harsh thing to say about people, it's just the WBC don't bother trying to hide it.

I mean, I'm gonna be blunt here. Calling me a "fag" seems rather tame in comparison to "You're a good person but you don't believe in X so therefore when you die you're going to be tortured for all eternity."

Not saying the WBC are innocent of anything (they most certainly are not), but it sounds to me like they just don't have as much diplomatic tact as larger organizations and thus are a lightning rod. The mainstream churches are often just as full of themselves, but they at least have a nice face on top of it. WBC skipped the makeup.

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Oh please, everyone wanted this asshole off this damn planet for years. IT's amazing he hasn't been shot till now.

 

This guy deserves no sympathy. HE's a bitter old man bullying the entire goddamn nation with his shitty funeral protests and hate speeches for the sake of laughs.

 

Anyone who not only taunts people as they're mourning over the dead, but also drags their fucking children into it is less than dog shit. Fuck him.

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I agree, cheering about it is kind of barbaric if you ask me. 

 

Yes, this guy was an asshole, and yes he spread a hateful message and offended a lot of people. I don't feel like his death is something to be happy about- it doesn't change a thing in the world. 

 

Maybe he had a change of heart in the end, like people say. If he did that makes this kind of sad. I mean he was a bigot, sure, but that's the kind of thing that's learned- now it seems like he's alone. Sucks for him, really. 

 

The whole world is barbaric when you think about it and were all guilty including myself, I don't think we can escape what we are. I've never really believed in that were "higher beings" crap not saying you do.

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Let's not fill this thread with false equivalences by saying everyone is equally guilty of being barbaric. No. I will not be compared morally to a person who- somehow at the very least- beat his children with his fists, simply because I said I don't give a crap about him on a message board due to the fact that he is a child abuser among other things.

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This is nothing to celebrate. For most people, it's nothing to feel bad over either. The man's death isn't going to change a single thing. If nothing else his family deserves peace, because they aren't the ones who robbed it from other people. 

 

The whole situation's tragic, really. Not the death specifically, but whenever you see a person who's this fucked up, you know it could've all been different. He's ultimately responsible for his own actions and we shouldn't forget that, but hate isn't something you're born with. It's learned, and I think that's equally important to keep in mind. But now I'm just waxing philosophical here, and it's not something I'm particularly good at, so I'm just gonna end this by saying the dude was a tremendous asshole and his death means nothing to me, but I'm sure it does to someone else. 

 

The WBC will continue to be fucked beyond belief. These are people who can't be reasoned with; you can't get on a soapbox with fanatics because they're really good at tuning you out. 

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Let's not fill this thread with false equivalences by saying everyone is equally guilty of being barbaric. No. I will not be compared mroally to a person who- somehow at the very least- beat his children with his fists, simply because I said I don't give a crap about him on a message board due to the fact that he is a child abuser among other things.

 

Indeed. Is everyone theoretically capable of being as cruel, despicable, and otherwise toxic as he's been? Definitely. Does that mean everyone is? Not in the slightest.

 

It's poor form to assume someone who steals a pack of gum can't call out someone who committed a genocide. One crime is very clearly more severe than the other.

 

I may be a bleeding heart in this thread, but I'm still going to say he was a douchebag to the tenth degree during his lifespan. I've done a lot of things that weren't exactly good in my life... but since the tu quoque fallacy is by definition invalid, I'm still going to call him out on everything he's done wrong.

 

I think even the wicked deserve some level of dignity. That doesn't mean he's any less wicked.

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Let's not fill this thread with false equivalences by saying everyone is equally guilty of being barbaric. No. I will not be compared mroally to a person who- somehow at the very least- beat his children with his fists, simply because I said I don't give a crap about him on a message board due to the fact that he is a child abuser among other things.

 

Wasn't saying that, the sad fact is depending on one's point of view we are all barbaric, for example someone might think I am barbaric for eating the dead flesh of a animal or masturbating. That sounds absurd to some of us but that's what some people probably believe that on this very forum. We all like to think we are morally better than the other. That is why there will never be world peace. 

 

Makes it all pointless, it makes what I am saying pointless. Okay that was very detached and Dr. Manhattan sounding. But sometimes I like to think like this. I am morally better than you? Are you morally better than me? Why do we do that?

 

There I am done being cold and detached.

 

From my own morals speaking hopefully the families whose funerals were picketed find some peace in Phelp's passing and hopefully WBC will disband.

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I believe pretty much every one of his kids has gone down the path of "Jesus Dad, this shit is so stupid," and yet still feels, "But I love you regardless." The same way hearing my grandmother's Biblical literalism makes my brain hurt, but I love her dearly. One can say such views don't hurt people, but I don't think it's as simple as that since it can still test a lot of emotions and exposure to scientific theory.

Speaking of which, I don't really see how what he does is any more hateful than the "nonbelievers go to Hell" thing that's implied in a ton of mainstream churches. The Westboro Baptists just aren't as subtle about it. Sure, said churches may say to be kind, but it doesn't hide the fact they still think you ultimately are going to endure eternal pain and suffering because of what you believe (or don't). I'd consider that a pretty cruel, harsh thing to say about people, it's just the WBC don't bother trying to hide it.

I mean, I'm gonna be blunt here. Calling me a "fag" seems rather tame in comparison to "You're a good person but you don't believe in X so therefore when you die you're going to be tortured for all eternity."

Not saying the WBC are innocent of anything (they most certainly are not), but it sounds to me like they just don't have as much diplomatic tact as larger organizations and thus are a lightning rod. The mainstream churches are often just as full of themselves, but they at least have a nice face on top of it. WBC skipped the makeup.

 

I've seen plenty of that it my life, and it always comes across to me as being disturbing. I try my best not to engage in esoteric debates with those who adhere to a strict, literal [a form of self-deception in and of itself, if you ask me, but that's for another day] interpretation of Scripture, but it's hard for me to keep silent. It's very weird for me to see such barbaric legalism argued with such glee. I have people tell me in the cheeriest way imaginable that the vast majority of the human race will be tortured for eternity in eternal hellfire. The funny thing is I'd rather have people tell me such things without the pretense. I'd rather them be honest to me than continue to peddle the old canard of "love the sinner, hate the sin". The phony cheer and feigned sympathy for every "lost soul" is beyond creepy when you consider exactly what they're trying to sell. I had this one person tell me they cared for me and loved me as a friend but was more than happy to cheer for my legislation which would continue to reinforce LGBT inequality. The amount of cognitive dissonance on display is startling. I don't know how anyone can go about living with such a mass of contradictions inside their minds. I suppose many just simply ignore all the noise. It's either that or confront said contradictions and change for the better. 

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I feel no sympathy for this man, but I'm not going to waste my time feeling hateful over anyone at the Westboro Baptist Church anymore. Yes, they're a bunch of evil minded, brainwashed assholes, but they just don't deserve my attention. Fred Phelps had control over his actions, and he lived a nice long life in his eyes, so he really doesn't deserve any remorse for his incoming death. Good riddance, but I doubt it's going to change anything.

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I mean, cheering and celebrating because someone with different beliefs to me has died reminds me of a particular group a little too much.

 

"Different beliefs" is an understatement, and not even an accurate one.

 

This is a man who has tormented tons of grieving families for nothing more than media exposure. If I'm supposed to be sympathetic to this asswipe under any circumstance, this is a ass-backwards world we live in.

 

Like I said before: Fuck him. It's one less asshole on this earth and that's perfectly fine with me.

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So... if his kids are done with his shit, can we assume that once he's gone, the church will go back to being a pretty normal little church, with all the craziness dissipating over the next few years?

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