Westboro Baptist Church

[Solkia]

Doubt it. Most of the pictures of protests don't even show Phelps present. He's more of a media face and a behind the scenes leader. His wife will probably take over that role.

[Tara]

I don't think priesthood has any bearing on heredity anyway?

 

In any case, someone will take his place.  WBC is a hateful group, not just one hateful person.

[Tani Coyote]

The question is how effective his leadership was to the organization, ultimately.

 

If he didn't build a legacy that can outlive him, the WBC will go into decline, sort of like Yugoslavia after Tito died and was no longer able to keep it united. But if he did, whoever fills his shoes will make sure it remains business as usual.

I'm hopeful the group will steadily shrink either way. That a lot of the church members have turned away from it shows there's hope for all of them.

 

The only question is if they want to see how wrong they've been, and comprehend that it's harder to love than it is to hate.

[SonicandTails58]

I found something a little bit contradictory in their hate.

They always spout shit like "Thank God for the Killer/9-11/etc" and yet, they STILL preach "THOU SHALT NOT KILL". A minor detail, possibly, but it is a huge problem for them. They are telling people NOT to kill each other, but they still support the people who DO kill others. If they are supposed to be doing "God's Work" through their dumbass extremist ways, then why do they support the side that goes against EVERYTHING they stand for?

[Tara]

I found something a little bit contradictory in their hate.

They always spout shit like "Thank God for the Killer/9-11/etc" and yet, they STILL preach "THOU SHALT NOT KILL". A minor detail, possibly, but it is a huge problem for them. They are telling people NOT to kill each other, but they still support the people who DO kill others. If they are supposed to be doing "God's Work" through their dumbass extremist ways, then why do they support the side that goes against EVERYTHING they stand for?

Not that it's any better (it's even worse, in fact), but the mindset is actually not that the person doing the killing should be praised, but that God Himself caused 9/11 to punish America.  "The person should still be condemned, but God should be praised for opening our eyes," says anyone who happens to enjoy being a piece of shit.

[Old dead account]

Some when is the funeral protest? Seriously, are people gonna protest his funeral just for lolz? This guy was trash, zero fucks given, hope he burns, something something something raped by fags in hell, etc. Honestly, I stopped caring about WBC when Arizona and Russia decided they want to be even worse than them in regards to homosexuals.

[Tani Coyote]

The WBC are hateful, but they don't condone murder.

Case in point: the Matthew Shepherd case. It's no secret that they said he was burning in Hell forever for being gay, but in the same statement they said that the ones who killed him need to pray to God for forgiveness.

Murder's a line that only the most extreme people cross. Even as radical, hateful, outright vile as the WBC are, they've never condoned it. They simply state that these tragedies are God's doing - and part of the package of theism is that God can't do anything wrong, unlike human beings.

God striking someone down with lightning is perfectly moral in their viewpoint, since it's God who did it. A human being, on the other hand, is not authorized to kill someone.

It's a weird double standard, but it's just how they (and many mainstream religious people) think.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Right, there's nothing for me to say that hasn't been said already.

 

A man who was spreading hateful, bigoted messages throughout the nation has finally died. A guy who's reasoning was so moronic, it made the fucking KKK sound like the voice of reason whey they counterprotested them from picketing a funeral.

 

That is an amazing accomplishment for anyone to do, and I'm certainly not going to feel any sorrow for his death. I know it's cold-hearted, but I always stand by this creed: Don't demand sympathy and then refuse to give it in return - treat others the way you want to be treated. He demanded hatred to others, I'll give his death apathy in return. He's lucky I'm not praising his death after giving plenty of reasons to do so.

[iDEATH]

It's interesting that, in his youth, Phelps was actually something of a local hero and a massive civil rights activist, working hard against segregation and the "Jim Crow" laws of the time. For a time, in his area, for any member of a minority who got in trouble with the law, he was the man to go to for help.

 

So sad that a man who could have done some real good in his life (and who did for some time seemingly) would start such a vile organisation and throw all of his potential for good down the toilet.

As it stands, I can't say i've any sympathy for the man whatsoever.

 

Though, like others in this thread, I'm interested in the story behind his excommunication from the church. generally the people they boot out have spoken out against the church or at least began to question it.....while I can't see that happening here it's certainly interesting. Send in Louis Theroux!!!

[Stacy]

Have to say I am among those who are completely apathetic towards this.  Like, whatever.  I mean, cheering and celebrating because someone with different beliefs to me has died reminds me of a particular group a little too much.

 

This going contradict what I said earlier. Oh boy this has hit a nerve.

 

You're post comes across arrogant as well as ignorant, I suggest you read up more on Fred Phelps. 

 

I can't believe you of all people are giving him sympathy? Because he was "human" and had "different beliefs"? Having read more into Fred Phelps he apparently sexually abused his own children you know, that's incest, paedophilia and rape all rolled into one, that last one you supposedly hate so much? Yeah he did it to his own family. So why are you surprised people are being so apathetic and bitter towards his passing? Personally I'll gladly be apathetic towards a piece of shit such as Fred Phelps.

 

Having personally seen have relatives torn apart by sexual abuse by another relative who at first we couldn't believe was capable of such acts and lied to us all and the court this pisses me off that you all people want to give Fred Phelps an abuser dignity many of us don't think he deserves.

 

So to answer that question you gave me Jez I've known people affected by rape, drug and alcohol addiction and much worse (victim of murder). It is hell and only reason I didn't bring it because is too difficult, painful and most of all personal. Its affected part of my family so bad that one of them is addicted to painkillers and anti-depressants they can't cope with it. Some of us have had to joke about the situation and detach ourselves from the reality of it at times that we forget that to outside world it is intensive.

 

This something I never wanted to bring up on here, I shouldn't have to and don't want to wear as a badge when people drag my name through the dirt.

 

 

It's interesting that, in his youth, Phelps was actually something of a local hero and a massive civil rights activist, working hard against segregation and the "Jim Crow" laws of the time. For a time, in his area, for any member of a minority who got in trouble with the law, he was the man to go to for help.

 

That makes it all the more fucked up I guess.

[Tara]

 

This going contradict what I said earlier. Oh boy this has hit a nerve.

 

You're post comes across arrogant as well as ignorant, I suggest you read up more on Fred Phelps. 

 

I can't believe you of all people are giving him sympathy? Because he was "human" and had "different beliefs"? Having read more into Fred Phelps he apparently sexually abused his own children you know, that's incest, paedophilia and rape all rolled into one, that last one you supposedly hate so much? Yeah he did it to his own family. So why are you surprised people are being so apathetic and bitter towards his passing? Personally I'll gladly be apathetic towards a piece of shit such as Fred Phelps.

 

Having personally seen have relatives torn apart by sexual abuse by another relative who at first we couldn't believe was capable of such acts and lied to us all and the court this pisses me off that you all people want to give Fred Phelps an abuser dignity many of us don't think he deserves.

 

So to answer that question you gave me Jez I've known people affected by rape, drug and alcohol addiction and much worse (victim of murder). It is hell and only reason I didn't bring it because is too difficult, painful and most of all personal. Its affected part of my family so bad that one of them is addicted to painkillers and anti-depressants they can't cope with it. Some of us have had to joke about the situation and detach ourselves from the reality of it at times that we forget that to outside world it is intensive.

 

This something I never wanted to bring up on here, I shouldn't have to and don't want to wear as a badge when people drag my name through the dirt.

 

I don't think you read that post right. =/

[no one]

Well here's the thing, death is an unfortunate happening no matter who is involved. Yeah the guy was a bad person pretty much hrough and through, but cheering about his death ain't makin' us look any better. Just remain apathetic and carry on with your life.

[Indigo Rush]

I have to wonder if a mob of people with picket signs saying "We're sorry for your loss," and "Jesus loves you," would blow their minds.

 

Of course, I'm speaking from a Christian perspective here. I think it'd just be fascinating to see what would happen if all the people who Fred Phelps and his congregation hurt were returned love for their hate. 

 

Not excusing years of hatred from them, no sir. None of that was acceptable. But seeing that one member leave the church and seeing her struggle kind of reminded me that even though they're despicable for what they've done, they're still human. 

 

So I can't exactly get behind the bandwagon that wants to praise their death. Believe me, I definitely understand it and sympathize with it, but I suppose I'm just hoping for a miracle to happen with them. 

 

I guess I'd rather see their hearts soften than see them die in their blind hatred, is all.

[JezMM]

 

This going contradict what I said earlier. Oh boy this has hit a nerve.

 

You're post comes across arrogant as well as ignorant, I suggest you read up more on Fred Phelps. 

 

I can't believe you of all people are giving him sympathy? Because he was "human" and had "different beliefs"? Having read more into Fred Phelps he apparently sexually abused his own children you know, that's incest, paedophilia and rape all rolled into one, that last one you supposedly hate so much? Yeah he did it to his own family. So why are you surprised people are being so apathetic and bitter towards his passing? Personally I'll gladly be apathetic towards a piece of shit such as Fred Phelps.

 

Having personally seen have relatives torn apart by sexual abuse by another relative who at first we couldn't believe was capable of such acts and lied to us all and the court this pisses me off that you all people want to give Fred Phelps an abuser dignity many of us don't think he deserves.

 

So to answer that question you gave me Jez I've known people affected by rape, drug and alcohol addiction and much worse (victim of murder). It is hell and only reason I didn't bring it because is too difficult, painful and most of all personal. Its affected part of my family so bad that one of them is addicted to painkillers and anti-depressants they can't cope with it. Some of us have had to joke about the situation and detach ourselves from the reality of it at times that we forget that to outside world it is intensive.

 

This something I never wanted to bring up on here, I shouldn't have to and don't want to wear as a badge when people drag my name through the dirt.

 

 

 

That makes it all the more fucked up I guess.

 

 

What Akito said.  You clearly misread my post.  I said I was apathetic.  What bothers me is the celebration of someone dying because that's what they did on multiple occasions, "Thank god for dead soldiers" and all that shit.

 

 

I would never in a million years defend anything Westboro related.  They're one of the few things that make me full on angry.

[Big Panda]

The WBC are hateful, but they don't condone murder.Case in point: the Matthew Shepherd case. It's no secret that they said he was burning in Hell forever for being gay, but in the same statement they said that the ones who killed him need to pray to God for forgiveness.Murder's a line that only the most extreme people cross. Even as radical, hateful, outright vile as the WBC are, they've never condoned it. They simply state that these tragedies are God's doing - and part of the package of theism is that God can't do anything wrong, unlike human beings.God striking someone down with lightning is perfectly moral in their viewpoint, since it's God who did it. A human being, on the other hand, is not authorized to kill someone.It's a weird double standard, but it's just how they (and many mainstream religious people) think.

...that's fucked up.

If there is a God, I simply refuse, point blank, to believe it's the one these sadistic assholes have thought up.

What kind of God would actively make individuals commit the most unforgivable of sins to punish others and then take the people or person he used and condemn them to hell for something he made them do?

Their idea of God is pure evil. Plain and simple.

[Tani Coyote]

...that's fucked up.

If there is a God, I simply refuse, point blank, to believe it's the one these sadistic assholes have thought up.

What kind of God would actively make individuals commit the most unforgivable of sins to punish others and then take the people or person he used and condemn them to hell for something he made them do?

Their idea of God is pure evil. Plain and simple.

 

I agree fully. It also tramples on the idea of free will, which is generally held in high regard in Christianity as an explanation for evil. God allows evil, he doesn't cause it. All the wars, poverty, cruelty, etc. are humanity's own fault.

 

Then again these are the same people who say that they're going to be sitting on pedestals as God's judges, laughing in the face of every other human as they're cast into Hell.

 

I have to wonder if a mob of people with picket signs saying "We're sorry for your loss," and "Jesus loves you," would blow their minds.

 

Of course, I'm speaking from a Christian perspective here. I think it'd just be fascinating to see what would happen if all the people who Fred Phelps and his congregation hurt were returned love for their hate. 

 

Not excusing years of hatred from them, no sir. None of that was acceptable. But seeing that one member leave the church and seeing her struggle kind of reminded me that even though they're despicable for what they've done, they're still human. 

 

So I can't exactly get behind the bandwagon that wants to praise their death. Believe me, I definitely understand it and sympathize with it, but I suppose I'm just hoping for a miracle to happen with them. 

 

I guess I'd rather see their hearts soften than see them die in their blind hatred, is all.

 

Agreed fully.

 

Maybe I'm just naive, but I like to think no one is really evil, so much as there are people who are horribly ignorant and misguided. That's what I consider the WBC adherents to be.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's interesting that, in his youth, Phelps was actually something of a local hero and a massive civil rights activist, working hard against segregation and the "Jim Crow" laws of the time. For a time, in his area, for any member of a minority who got in trouble with the law, he was the man to go to for help.

This is what PISSES ME RIGHT THE FUCK OFF.

 

This man fights for the rights of one group that was being persecuted for who they are, while demonizing another group for the same. Granted, there are differences when it comes to the persecution of people based on race and one on sexual orientation, but it just speaks a lot of how self-absorbed, hypocritical, and all around weird such views and logic can be with people over the rights and welfare of others.

 

In short, this is the kind of stuff that makes me suspicious of people in general.

[nintega137]

This is what PISSES ME RIGHT THE FUCK OFF.

 

This man fights for the rights of one group that was being persecuted for who they are, while demonizing another group for the same. Granted, there are differences when it comes to the persecution of people based on race and one on sexual orientation, but it just speaks a lot of how self-absorbed, hypocritical, and all around weird such views and logic can be with people over the rights and welfare of others.

 

In short, this is the kind of stuff that makes me suspicious of people in general.

Actually based off of what I've read on the guy, yes he was a civil rights activist but he wasn't really in it for the actual civil rights but rather the money he made from it. Some people who know him(I want to say his children, sorry I can't find the link right now) say he used to use slurs when referring to black people and even went as far as to say they were "cursed". 

[Tani Coyote]

Also, I recall his reasons for helping blacks gain rights being on the basis that they were "the servant of the servant."

 

You really can do the right thing for COMPLETELY wrong reasons, to say the least.

 

Not too unusual for people to only wanna go halfway with rights like that. Tons of white people supported abolishing slavery. Full rights? Suddenly everyone turned cold.

 

It's thus no surprise in America that a lot of people feel gays shouldn't be executed or anything, but balk at the idea of marriage equality. It might have something to do with "love the sinner" and such, but that ignores all the huge emotional impacts that homosexuals feel because they feel like second-class citizens. Just because you don't put a bullet between someone's eyes or lay a hand on them doesn't mean you're not hurting them.

 

Alas, going more in depth would probably be best reserved for the LGBTQI thread.

[Tara]

The freeing the slaves in and of itself was more of a war tactic than an act of kindness on Abe Lincoln's part anyway.  Lincoln hardly cared about equality, although I believe he was known for treating former slaves with considerably more respect in his later years.  Our history is sadly paved with people who have done great things for ultimately selfish reasons.  I think it's worth commending that it was done by at least somebody, but we should always continue to foster that these things should be done out of purity of heart over expecting something in return or using it to meet an end.

 

Anyway, it doesn't surprise me to hear that Phelps was a civil rights activist.  it doesn't necessarily mean he cared for equality.  Just like environmentalists don't always really care for the environment.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Actually based off of what I've read on the guy, yes he was a civil rights activist but he wasn't really in it for the actual civil rights but rather the money he made from it. Some people who know him(I want to say his children, sorry I can't find the link right now) say he used to use slurs when referring to black people and even went as far as to say they were "cursed". 

Oh, well that makes me feel even more justified hating him.

 

Really, it's easy no matter what happens, isn't it?