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What stages do you want to see in Sonic Generations?


Agent York

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Couldn't you say all of the above in regards to classic levels for C.Sonic? Explain-- What completely new level tropes have we seen thus far for C.Sonic's Green Hill? None really, just a different level design, which is thus the point of this whole game: New level designs for previously seen locales.

Edited by Nepenthe
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I don't know why people are expecting any levels from Shadow the Hedgehog. This is about celebrating SONIC, not spin-offs and whatnot. Sonic '06 I can kind of understand, but you couldn't even play as Sonic in Shadow, plus I'm willing to bet SEGA want to stay as far away possible to anything even related to Shadow's game.

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What i'm trying to say is, if they want to make new stages with unleashed's tropes levels, they might as well put them up as DLC. It would only feel half unique in generations and that's kind of a waste

Classic sonic stages have never been displayed in HD and are pretty old. Same with sonic adventure era. I wouldn't even mind sonic 06 as we haven't played them in neither of the styles yet.

Edited by Jaouad
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Couldn't you say all of the above in regards to classic levels for C.Sonic?

You could - if it was 3 years ago we just had those levels in the exact same engine, aeshtetics and gameplay style.

The idea is to recreate all locales from the ground up, but picking any levels from Unleashed wouldn't be doing that unless it overhauls the visual style completely.

Edited by Carbo
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I'm hoping for the game to be dominated by Genesis and Adventure levels, with like, one Unleashed level, maybe one from Sonic '06, and one from Colors tops.

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Update on last nights apparently leaked list of levels:

Yay!

Indeed. That list of selected zones was way past lame.

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I don't know why people are expecting any levels from Shadow the Hedgehog. This is about celebrating SONIC, not spin-offs and whatnot. Sonic '06 I can kind of understand, but you couldn't even play as Sonic in Shadow, plus I'm willing to bet SEGA want to stay as far away possible to anything even related to Shadow's game.

Despite not starring Sonic, it's nonetheless a major entry in the franchise and the narrative bookend to one of the longest and most notable story arcs of the games' canon. Besides, if they're going to stay away from it only on the basis that it was ruinous, then they have no business touching Sonic 06 despite its more solidified status as a main title. On the basis of how significant the game was, I personally think they should be obligated on principle to recognize ShtH in some way whether or not they actually will at the end of the day.

What i'm trying to say is, if they want to make new stages with unleashed's tropes levels, they might as well put them up as DLC. It would only feel half unique in generations and that's kind of a waste

Classic sonic stages have never been displayed in HD and are pretty old. Same with sonic adventure era. I wouldn't even mind sonic 06 as we haven't played them in neither of the styles yet.

I don't see what age nor even graphical quality has anything to do under the original premise of your post. You said Unleashed's levels would be a waste because all of the gameplay tropes are existent under Modern Sonic's style. This is the same with Classic Sonic. We've seen that there is technically nothing new there either aside from the fabulousness of the graphical quality which frankly has no bearing on how the game will play and feel. Ultimately, they're going for new level designs, which is the main kicker here-- You can make a new level design out of an existing area regardless of said area's age.

You could - if it was 3 years ago we just had those levels in the exact same engine, aeshtetics and gameplay style.

The idea is to recreate all locales from the ground up, but picking any levels from Unleashed wouldn't be doing that unless it overhauls the visual style completely.

Indeed, the primary idea is to take past levels and give them completely new level designs which can easily be done with recent games' locations, especially considering Classic Sonic has not played them yet.

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Oh wait, I think the word trope wasn't the right word. I meant the levels in any game made recently wouldn't make sense. Like I said for unleashed they might as well make DLC instead of putting any stage from unleashed in sonic generations. It would feel like a waste to any better stage that could take their place that people might have missed way more.

Look I understand you're arguments. But I hope you can agree that "the choice" wouldn't be clever with all the other choices they could make. Any stage from recent games would feel like a waste of effort and resources. I mean an example, let's say any unleashed lvl would be in the game, but any awesome stage from the classics or adventures ended up being left out, it would always feel like the space hasn't been used wisely

Edited by Jaouad
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Despite not starring Sonic, it's nonetheless a major entry in the franchise and the narrative bookend to one of the longest and most notable story arcs of the games' canon. Besides, if they're going to stay away from it only on the basis that it was ruinous, then they have no business touching Sonic 06 despite its more solidified status as a main title. On the basis of how significant the game was, I personally think they should be obligated on principle to recognize ShtH in some way whether or not they actually will at the end of the day.

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Guys, Shadow the Hedgehog isn't being represented in this game. I linked to a SEGA page about the level poll they used a while back, and they specifically said no Shadow or Handhelds. :P

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Indeed, the primary idea is to take past levels and give them completely new level designs which can easily be done with recent games' locations, especially considering Classic Sonic has not played them yet.

Thing is - neither has this iteration of Modern Sonic. We've never seen an Unleashed style version of City Escape. Or Windy Valley, Bingo Highway, Kingdom Valley and whichever other games that were made prior to Unleashed. Not only that but these will inevitably have had been radically re-designed with a bunch of new effort placed into it thanks to the Hedgehog Engine and the more colorful and vast designs.

The problem of incorporating Unleashed levels however is that as a game that came out relatively recently ago and has modern sections completely based off of it, it's not doing anything new, neither for gameplay or design. Re-using it would be incredibly lazy from a design standpoint. While Classic Sonic is indeed very much unchanged to what his own levels will adapt to, they benefit from actually being re-created in a brand new engine, fully rendered in 3D HD and with a far vaster and richer detail. At best I can't see Sonic's Unleashed levels do that to Classic Sonic except just adding pinball physics, loops, platforming and curves to Unleashed's pre-existing assets, and Modern Sonic's levels will feel like mere expansion packs to Unleashed. I'd be a bit more partial to Colors since that wasn't in HD and would have had to been re-created, but since odds are that these games were developed alongside each other with Colors probably starting development later on than Generations, I don't see that happening.

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Good, honestly there was nothing memorable about that game at all besides the CGI scenes. It was shit and it isn't even a proper Sonic game.

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Arguable.

Eeeh... 4 (5 if you count BH) city stages, GHZ and a clone of it, no Eggman base, ice, water, desert, jungle or fire level (unless you count CC). I don't think that it's particularly arguable when there's only nine stages total.

Which, given the possibility that Sonic 3 and Knuckles is considered one game (which it is by many people) and there is only one stage per game, is probably the best choice? That stage is fucking amazing and would be even more amazing remastered in HD.

They are considered tow halves of the same game, but they are separate titles in their own right. Plus S3K is like the fan-favourite game. A little recognition from both halves, would not have been out of place.

Something people would have to deal with regardless of the amount of stages in the game. You can't please everyone 100%. At the most you can hope for DLC.

Oh naturally. No way we're getting all the stages we could possibly want, but that doesn't stop the selection from being underwhelming when so few of the stages are really iconic.

EDIT: Just edited in spoiler tags just in case. Better safe than sorry.

Edited by Blue Blood
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With the developer cycle being longer than Unleashed(which had awful lot of content despite of itself), the Engine already establiched, and an organised focus within Sonic Team on this game-I'm expecting at the least alot of Zones, and not just 9.

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Oh wait, I think the word trope wasn't the right word. I meant the levels in any game made recently wouldn't make sense. Like I said for unleashed they might as well make DLC instead of putting any stage from unleashed in sonic generations. It would feel like a waste to any better stage that could take their place that people might have missed way more.

Look I understand you're arguments. But I hope you can agree that "the choice" wouldn't be clever with all the other choices they could make. Any stage from recent games would feel like a waste of effort and resources. I mean an example, let's say any unleashed lvl would be in the game, but any awesome stage from the classics or adventures ended up being left out, it would always feel like the space hasn't been used wisely

There's tons of awesome stages from the classics and Adventures that are going to be left out anyways regardless of whether or not they devote one level to Unleashed and/or Colors because there's only so much space on the disk and so much time in the day to develop before the deadline. Almost every choice aside from Green Hill and maybe Chemical Plant is probably going to be someone's waste of space; That's an inevitability.

I understand your point of view because I begrudgingly held it myself not too long ago, but I simply changed my mind under the guise of the game's goals, the fact that Classic Sonic hasn't had a chance at these locales yet, and because they're part of the series' history too, recent or not.

Guys, Shadow the Hedgehog isn't being represented in this game. I linked to a SEGA page about the level poll they used a while back, and they specifically said no Shadow or Handhelds. :P

Well, that's just bollocks. Alright then. =(

Thing is - neither has this iteration of Modern Sonic. We've never seen an Unleashed style version of City Escape. Or Windy Valley, Bingo Highway, Kingdom Valley and whichever other games that were made prior to Unleashed. Not only that but these will inevitably have had been radically re-designed with a bunch of new effort placed into it thanks to the Hedgehog Engine and the more colorful and vast designs.

The problem of incorporating Unleashed levels however is that as a game that came out relatively recently ago and has modern sections completely based off of it, it's not doing anything new, neither for gameplay or design. Re-using it would be incredibly lazy from a design standpoint. While Classic Sonic is indeed very much unchanged to what his own levels will adapt to, they benefit from actually being re-created in a brand new engine, fully rendered in 3D HD and with a far vaster and richer detail. At best I can't see Sonic's Unleashed levels do that to Classic Sonic except just adding pinball physics, loops, platforming and curves to Unleashed's pre-existing assets, and Modern Sonic's levels will feel like mere expansion packs to Unleashed. I'd be a bit more partial to Colors since that wasn't in HD and would have had to been re-created, but since odds are that these games were developed alongside each other with Colors probably starting development later on than Generations, I don't see that happening.

I'm not a gamer who gives any significant benefit to the effect that graphical upgrades of pre-existing levels or assets has on newer games, hence why I don't agree with you on the graphical quality of Classic Sonic's levels making any real difference in my stance that his Green Hill Zone is ultimately doing the same thing as a hypothetical Modern Sonic's Spagonia would do. Fine, it looks pretty. But I'm using a control scheme to overcome obstacles in an area that are all over twenty years old, and not only are all of these things over twenty years old, but they've been constantly rehashed and shoved into the modern limelight in the form of multiple ports of S1 and the consistent reuse of Green Hill in newer games and promotional items.

I surmise that's part of the reason why many people here are finding Classic Sonic's Green Hill showcase so boring, or at least finding Modern Sonic's interpretation that much more exciting: We've seen it all before, and any luster to be had from the fact that Classic Sonic is back in HD has worn off. New coats of paint to old things don't catch my eye at all. It primarily comes down to whether or not the level designs will allow me to experience these familiar locations from a different viewpoint, to add something unique to them that gives them a new life beyond extra polygons. Modern Sonic's episode with the giant Chomper is the prime example. That would be just as breath-taking the first time I saw it whether or not the game looked as pretty as it did because it's adding to the dimensionality and history of the level in a more significant way.

It is from there that I disagree using a new location from Unleashed would be lazy. As I constantly argue, Unleashed's locations benefit greatly from the use of having multiple large set pieces and even different biomes within in the same level. Shamar has an Arabic town, a desert, and a canyon system all overcome with ruins. Adabat has portside towns, the ocean, islands, the jungle, and ancient temples at its disposal. Chun-Nan has mountains, the Great Wall, rivers, bamboo, and an overall temperate at its helm. Empire City is begging to be explored-- What does the ground of it look like, or even the underground? What do the road systems and traffic look like? What are its historic sites or tourist destinations? What can adding more set pieces, different altitudes, or different routes do for all of these levels? How can Classic Sonic reframe them?

Instead of thinking as these levels as merely a series of specific assets that Sonic Team might simply port directly over from Unleashed, think of them as places instead.

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What could they do to improve Unleashed and Colors?

Unleashed - Eggmanland without the stupid Werehog. That alone is worth putting the game in.

Colors - One thing people regularly complained about regarding Colors was that you didn't get the same "tour of the level" Unleashed gave you. There wasn't as much of a sense of progression. Rather, it seemed like you were stuck in the foreground of a pretty picture. Not only would the levels look even better in HD, but you could actually explore some of that scenery. Works for me. Plus, if we get Aquarium Park, there's a better chance of 3D underwater gameplay.

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What Nepenthe said.

By reintroducing some of the Unleashed stages, they have the opportunity to design entirely new levels, which get rid of some of the annoying problems that lurked within the originals. Namely QTE's are gone now. You can expect annoying QTE or die moments to be gone from the Generations version of the stage.

And again, as Nepenthe said, it gives them the opportunity to include things they wanted to include in Unleashed but couldn't. Seeing a Subway system/network as a portion of Scyscraper Scamper would be absolutely fabulous. Seeing more of those ruins in Arid Sands and Jungle Joyride would be fab too. Heck, I would love to see Jungle Joyride again simply to see what it would look like running at a smooth framerate (beit 30 or 60).

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I'd generally like to see some modern stuff redeemed, just to prove that the Ideas didn't make the game inherently bad, but bad execution.

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What Nepenthe said.

By reintroducing some of the Unleashed stages, they have the opportunity to design entirely new levels, which get rid of some of the annoying problems that lurked within the originals. Namely QTE's are gone now. You can expect annoying QTE or die moments to be gone from the Generations version of the stage.

And again, as Nepenthe said, it gives them the opportunity to include things they wanted to include in Unleashed but couldn't. Seeing a Subway system/network as a portion of Scyscraper Scamper would be absolutely fabulous. Seeing more of those ruins in Arid Sands and Jungle Joyride would be fab too. Heck, I would love to see Jungle Joyride again simply to see what it would look like running at a smooth framerate (beit 30 or 60).

Agreed. This is a new game and its a chance to perfect whatever level returns from Unleashed. Adabat is a beautiful stage, but as you said, it had awful framerate problems. I'd love to play through Jungle Joyride in Generations, especially if it focused on those beautiful ruins.

OFF TOPIC: Why was this post neg repped, its not like you said anything offensive. +1 to counteract it.

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I'm not a gamer who gives any significant benefit to the effect that graphical upgrades of pre-existing levels or assets has on newer games, hence why I don't agree with you on the graphical quality of Classic Sonic's levels making any real difference in my stance that his Green Hill Zone is ultimately doing the same thing as a hypothetical Modern Sonic's Spagonia would do. Fine, it looks pretty. But I'm using a control scheme to overcome obstacles in an area that are all over twenty years old, and not only are all of these things over twenty years old, but they've been constantly rehashed and shoved into the modern limelight in the form of multiple ports of S1 and the consistent reuse of Green Hill in newer games and promotional items.

I surmise that's part of the reason why many people here are finding Classic Sonic's Green Hill showcase so boring, or at least finding Modern Sonic's interpretation that much more exciting: We've seen it all before, and any luster to be had from the fact that Classic Sonic is back in HD has worn off. New coats of paint to old things don't catch my eye at all. It primarily comes down to whether or not the level designs will allow me to experience these familiar locations from a different viewpoint, to add something unique to them that gives them a new life beyond extra polygons. Modern Sonic's episode with the giant Chomper is the prime example. That would be just as breath-taking the first time I saw it whether or not the game looked as pretty as it did because it's adding to the dimensionality and history of the level in a more significant way.

It is from there that I disagree using a new location from Unleashed would be lazy. As I constantly argue, Unleashed's locations benefit greatly from the use of having multiple large set pieces and even different biomes within in the same level. Shamar has an Arabic town, a desert, and a canyon system all overcome with ruins. Adabat has portside towns, the ocean, islands, the jungle, and ancient temples at its disposal. Chun-Nan has mountains, the Great Wall, rivers, bamboo, and an overall temperate at its helm. Empire City is begging to be explored-- What does the ground of it look like, or even the underground? What do the road systems and traffic look like? What are its historic sites or tourist destinations? What can adding more set pieces, different altitudes, or different routes do for all of these levels? How can Classic Sonic reframe them?

Instead of thinking as these levels as merely a series of specific assets that Sonic Team might simply port directly over from Unleashed, think of them as places instead.

I never spoke about graphical updates - I was talking about graphical design.

The Hedgehog Engine has given an entire new edge and level of depth and detail to the plain 16-bit days where the only assumption I've ever had of Green Hill was a continuous plain of mountains and waterfalls. I have to disagree with you on the idea that Classic Sonic is boring because this new recreation has given them so much more to add to what was once just a plain slate. It's more interesting because we've never seen how the developers actually thought of the depths of these old stages that they could only once dream of envisioning. Green Hill now has caves, horizons and planes to discover and traverse through, even with Classic Sonic. It's managed to adapt the cinematic experience of Unleashed into the classic experience and it feels new and refreshing, and makes up for the fact that we're still playing a pretty old concept.

And again - as something that's purely based on the Unleashed way of running things, we've already seen a good deal of Unleashed's setting through hubs, additional DLC and even night time levels. By avoiding Unleashed which is already incredibly pretty and well designed I think they can instead spend that time on making more zones that aren't already well presented live up to newer standards and see how the developers truly imagined how fleshed out the older days of Sonic were. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I see design, especially aesthetic, as one of the most engrossing aspects of a game, and Sonic Unleashed already has so much of it that considering what the game's main gimmick is, I think there's far more deserving levels to give that exposure to.

Edited by Carbo
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I think we shouldn't forget about music remixes either. What's there to remix for any recent games in modern style? Jun Senoue allready said in interviews that he was adding some sort of "tempo" to the tracks to make them fit for the modern gameplay, but that is allready the case with all the unleashed stages.

Not only that, but the 16 bit era tracks deserve remixes with todays technology way more than anything recently.

It would be nice if they actually tried to make the most apropriate and best choices in this.

Edited by Jaouad
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I think we shouldn't forget about music remixes either. What's there to remix for any recent games in modern style? Jun Senoue allready said in interviews that he was adding some sort of "tempo" to the tracks to make them fit for the modern gameplay, but that is allready the case with all the unleashed stages.

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I'm not quite sure how I'd feel about that.

It'd be more hilarious than anything. Maybe they'll throw it in after all as a one off Werehog stage just to troll the fans.

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Also, has anyone considered that Unleashed might be represent by a night time stage? That'd rock.

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