Concerns?

[Tyranno]

The thing is, realistic physics is being confused with "pinball dynamics." Which isn't inherently realistic at all, it's just a hallmark of the Classics game play style.

Colors and Unleashed DO have physics of their own, and some aspects of it are based on momentum, just not to the same extent as "pinball dynamics" are. But to say Colors and Unleashed were all about running with no concern for environment is inherently false. They take momentum and instead emphasize FLOW, which is making sure Sonic flows from one action to another with speedy results while also being cognizant of power ups and obstacles.

If I had to make a comparison, Classic Sonic is all about controlling a sentient pinball. Modern Sonic is about controlling a sentient missile. And if anything, Colors has shown us you CAN make the latter deep and engaging.

[Blue Blood]

Quoting myself

There is this one little bit that still concerns me somewhat. At around 39 seconds into the video below, Sonic unclurs off a ramp and launches crazy high into the air. It's exactly the way he behaves with certain ramps and coming out of water in Unleashed and Colours because the height they launch Sonic at is completely scripted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmN0Z6GAfj0&

The Sentinel at Retro thinks he can here a spring sound when Sonic is behind the the trees. I'm not totally sure. What do you think?

[Blue Comeback]

From RubyEclipse in response to someone asking

why does a admin respond to the complaint about voices but not other threads about gameplay...

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?367538-Something-I-noticed-in-the-trailer&p=6593143&viewfull=1#post6593143

There's a lot about the game that remains secret. Much of the gameplay is still in that realm, so I can't offer new tidbits of info you may not have already seen there.

It seems obvious that most of the gameplay of Modern and Classic Sonic has been shown, and their moves have been discussed.

If the game is all Sonic gameplay thatd be amazing (dont mind other characters as long as it follows the Sonic Model. But I hope there aren't other gameplay "types"

[Indigo Rush]

Analyzed the ever-loving jalapeno chili out of that part.

He definitely uncurls. There is no spring, no indication of Sonic moving out of ball mode before hitting the slope, nada.

It may be that one particular instance alone, but he's uncurling.

EDIT:

My assessment of the situation is that Sonic doesn't normally uncurl, just as Ruby said, but in some particular instances, he will for one reason or another.

This is nothing we should get worked up about. The same goes for that one corkscrew segment. It's just like that one corkscrew area in Lava Reef Zone, you're forced into a running form rather than a ball mode. It's nothing to worry over.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[PeanutButterDimond]

I looked over that uncurling part so many times now. i am almost completely sure I see a spring and hear a spring. that is if I am not hearing and seeing random things. Try to see if you can hear it or see it. I am pretty sure I can.

[-Mark-]

I must admit, I'm a bit worried that the game in general (3D sections in particular) will be too similar to Unleashed. Not that that's a bad thing per se, and it'd still be nicer than the 'hold up to win' 3D sections of Colours, but even so.

The problem with HD Unleashed day stages was that they were absolutely full of near-artificial difficulty and were horribly unfair, with cheap instant-deaths everywhere until you'd practically memorised the level layouts. Far too many bottomless pits in general, and how is it fair that failing a five-button QTE equals instant death? A hard game is fine, but you shouldn't be rubbish at it by default without lots of practice.

I just hope they balance out the difficulty a bit, or the game's going to get slammed for being an unfairly difficult, uncontrollable mess like Unleashed was, regardless of actual quality.

Edited April 20, 2011 by -Mark-

[Sega DogTagz]

and how is it fair that failing a five-button QTE equals instant death?

I don't get this.

The only stunt based QTE's that I remember insta-killing you in Unleashed were found in Eggmanland. Considering it was the climax of the game, and there were sooooo many ways to die there, I never understood why people single out those QTE's. Everything killed you in that stage. Walking 2 feet to the left could get you killed in that stage. Complaining about an element that insta-kills in the final stage is like complaining about a final boss who's best attack just so happens to be the strongest thing in the game. It is supposed to be the ultimate challenge. Its the last stage for a reason.

You screw up on the last stage, you die. Is that really such a hard pill to swallow for some you guys? Do you want the game to hold your hand forever? Where is the line?

Edited April 20, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[Blue Blood]

I don't get this.

The only stunt based QTE's that I remember insta-killing you in Unleashed were found in Eggmanland. Considering it was the climax of the game, and there were sooooo many ways to die there, I never understood why people single out those QTE's. Everything killed you in that stage. Walking 2 feet to the left could get you killed in that stage. Complaining about an element that insta-kills in the final stage is like complaining about a final boss who's best attack just so happens to be the strongest thing in the game. It is supposed to be the ultimate challenge. Its the last stage for a reason.

You screw up on the last stage, you die. Is that really such a hard pill to swallow for some you guys? Do you want the game to hold your hand forever? Where is the line?

There were QTEs that killed you upon failure in JJ and SS (maybe more) too. The difference was that they were easy and hard to fail.

[SEGAMew]

I hate QTE so much, yet I love Heavy Rain (but then again, Heavy Rain gave you a longer time to input your commands).

[Sega DogTagz]

There were QTEs that killed you upon failure in JJ and SS (maybe more) too. The difference was that they were easy and hard to fail.

That's still the last leg of the game though, so I'll stand by my point. Botching a quickstep wont get you killed in Spagonia, but there are stretches of Eggmanland dedicated to the move that will roast your hide for the slightest error. QTE's should be held to the same standard.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[-Mark-]

Regardless, a QTE should never equate to instant death. Okay, maybe in the last level, but even then, there should be some context to it. In Unleashed it was basically "Get the QTE right or inexplicably fall to your death on a jump". They could at least have something dangerous fly at you to warrant you dying if you fail it, rather than just falling if you fail and making the jump if you don't.

Also, one thing worries me as well; namely, this is now one Sonic game Sega can't afford to screw up. The amount of hype and excitement that's been generated, and looking at what the game's appearing to promise (not to mention the obvious 20th anniversary stuff), if this game is anything less than 'pretty good', both Sonic and Sega's reputations are going to take a massive hit.

EDIT: Also I still stand by my point that Unleashed relied far too much on bottomless pits for cheap, fake and automatic difficulty. I think I rarely actually died from any in-level hazards in that game.

EDIT 2: In fact, it's made even worse by the fact Sonic Colours was very well-received both critically and commercially. That just adds more pressure for it to be good, and will increase backlash if it isn't.

Edited April 20, 2011 by -Mark-

[Sega DogTagz]

Regardless, a QTE should never equate to instant death. Okay, maybe in the last level, but even then, there should be some context to it. In Unleashed it was basically "Get the QTE right or inexplicably fall to your death on a jump". They could at least have something dangerous fly at you to warrant you dying if you fail it, rather than just falling if you fail and making the jump if you don't.

Do they need to put warning signs over lava pits too?

I mean, nobody ever actually told me to stop boost running over the water in Adabat, but I had a pretty good hunch that hitting the brakes would be suicide. At that stage of the game, it was a pretty safe assumption that everything could kill you. Inexplicable death via failure is hardly inexplicable when it occurs toward the end of the story. I don't expect the platforming segments to be as forgiving later in the game as they are early on, so why should everything else march to a different beat?

EDIT: Also I still stand by my point that Unleashed relied far too much on bottomless pits for cheap, fake and automatic difficulty. I think I rarely actually died from any in-level hazards in that game.

I'd say most deaths occur from people abusing the boost before they are ready and then blaming the topography when they run off a cliff, but that's just me.

As for the in-level hazards, I fondly remember biting the big one once while staring at awe at those giant Eggman pistons that push you off the stage. Knew it was dangerous, but it caught me looking.

I don't recall too many Sonic games where hazards ever posed a major threat at killing me. Sure stuff like Slicer would rob me of my ring horde, but he never actively posed a killer threat. Bottomless pits / botched attempt at platforming have always been the bane of Sonic's existence.

[SEGAMew]

[Sega DogTagz]

^That one is the bane of Super Sonic's existence. Bottomless pit that made you wait for death.

But yeah bottomless pits & botched platforming kill the most Sonic's.

[ChikaBoing]

IMO more multiple paths, and I guess the Sign-warning from Colors would make the Unleashed formula perfect. We haven't had exploration type gameplay since SA1 for a reason, when SA2 came out, everyone agreed that the streamlined, faster levels that are all essentially Speed Highway, are better than the ones in SA1.

Edited April 20, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Sushi]

I looked over that uncurling part so many times now. i am almost completely sure I see a spring and hear a spring. that is if I am not hearing and seeing random things. Try to see if you can hear it or see it. I am pretty sure I can.

This.

Can't wait to play as both Sonics.

And I see alot of people are concerned about the gameplay of Modern Sonic. I repeat: Just have faith in Sonic Team. I am sure that they are aware of that. And by that, I ment problems like Unfair Deaths. Personally, I liked the Unleashed Day Stages more than Colours (Don't get me wrong, Colours was a good and fun game), and I felt that the difficulty-level was just fine. Same in Colours, but Colours was a bit easier. I am sure they won't make the OTE's as hard as in Eggmanland HD.

Besides, isn't it fun to run at 300+ mph with modern Sonic and be superfast with just one button press? Like, it gives you the feeling that you are Sonic. You have all his atlethic moves in disposal (Boost, Slide, Stomp, Homing Attack, Sidestep, Drift,...), and if you use them good and wisely, then you feel like a badass...Hahaha^^

[Indigo Rush]

I looked over that uncurling part so many times now. i am almost completely sure I see a spring and hear a spring. that is if I am not hearing and seeing random things. Try to see if you can hear it or see it. I am pretty sure I can.

That one sound effect heard when he launches up is background noise from the interview. You hear similar sounds in random spots in the interview.

I looked furiously for a spring. That one yellow blotch? That isn't a spring, it's a platform in the background reflecting the light.

Sonic's momentum drastically increases when he launches up, nowhere near as fast while he was rolling through, and it increased the moment he left the edge of the slope.

He uncurled. Why can't people see this?! The SEGA forums are more in denial than anywhere else, and I'm having a hard time responding to comments like "Nu uh, there IS a spring!" with NO evidence or reasoning to back it up.

[Scar]

That one sound effect heard when he launches up is background noise from the interview. You hear similar sounds in random spots in the interview.

I looked furiously for a spring. That one yellow blotch? That isn't a spring, it's a platform in the background reflecting the light.

Sonic's momentum drastically increases when he launches up, nowhere near as fast while he was rolling through, and it increased the moment he left the edge of the slope.

He uncurled. Why can't people see this?! The SEGA forums are more in denial than anywhere else, and I'm having a hard time responding to comments like "Nu uh, there IS a spring!" with NO evidence or reasoning to back it up.

Ruby Eclipse confirmed at Retro that there is no Uncurling.

Somebody showed a gif of the footage which shows Sonic still in ball form after coming off the ramp, then returning to running mode halfway through. Not sure why that is, but it will probably be eliminated by the final release version.

[Sushi]

See that Red little thing behind the palm tree's...ehm..leaves? (Don't know the correct word lol)

That, my friend, is that spring that launched C. Sonic way up.

[Indigo Rush]

I'm having a hard time keeping up this debate in 2 forums. Gyuh.

I never said that I don't believe Ruby. I fully believe that there is no uncurling... except for possibly scripted events. I have every reason to believe with that footage to back me up that this one instance of Sonic dashing up to collect rings is a scripted event.

EDIT:

This is kind of funny:

See that Red little thing behind the palm tree's...ehm..leaves? (Don't know the correct word lol)

That, my friend, is that spring that launched C. Sonic way up.

No. That, my friend, is a case of camera angles messing with you.

I certainly remember in the Genesis games where springs were silent and turned into flowers! Don't you?

Edited April 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Blue Blood]

The extended footage should make your multi-board debate a little easier, Indigo. No spring, and looks like automatic and scripted for the sake of the rings. Not a massive deal.

[Indigo Rush]

I feel that continuing the debate will be redundant. At this point, if they still think there's a spring, they're blind and deaf.

[Rusty Spy]

Imaginary springs. Srs Business.

[KrazyBean]

There are not that many rings in the Modern Sonic levels compared to Unleashed, so you can't boost as much, which is a good thing

[Blue Blood]

There are not that many rings in the Modern Sonic levels compared to Unleashed, so you can't boost as much, which is a good thing

And on the downside, the levels (or GHZ at least) are narrower and more uneventful than any of the Unleashed HD stages. It's like a corridor.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Blue Blood