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The Fandom Divide on "Classic" Sonic


Dr. Mechano

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This isn't a Generations topic, but it was certainly inspired by the heated debates over the upcoming game. Basically, the vast interpretations of what the "classic" era actually was, and what actually happened during it. We have several views of the classic age:

Japanese: Mad scientist Dr. Eggman is trying to take over Earth with cute little robots powered by animals and a variety of other inventions and weapons! Sonic thwarts his first scheme, quickly becomes a world-renowned hero, and continues an ongoing battle with his supervillain nemesis. The transition to Sonic Adventure, in this view, is fairly easy since the only thing to explain is the change to design, without the need to explain away settings or name changes.

American/European: Planet Mobius is being terrorized by sole human Dr. Ivo Robotnik (Sky Patrol was never released outside of Japan, so Witchcart isn't part of early American continuity), a madman who literally transforms animals into robots in his quest to rule the planet. Sonic and his animal friends stand up against his oppressive invasion and stop him from conquering the world. Doesn't mesh quite as easily with the modern games, since we have to explain some name/location changes (SA1's dub flimsily tries to handwave "Eggman" as an insult, but what to do with "Mobius" is anyone's guess).

Cartoon Blending: Then there's the people who try to adapt the cartoons/comics into the game story, to varying degrees. This is usually done with SatAM (Though I occasionally see AoStH influences as well), with the honest belief that red-eyed, metal-armed Julian was the one flying the Eggmobile and sending Badniks across the world. This view was somewhat prominent in the 90s when kids couldn't tell the difference between the off-model art and in-game sprites, but few hold this position today and do recognize separate continuities between the games and adaptive media.

How do you view the older games? Their limited in-game stories leave them widely open to interpretation, after all.

Personally, I am a big fan of the Japanese plot, and find the characters far more likable. Wacky fun-loving Eggman is the kind of villain I enjoy watching, and I find most of his western portrayals really one-dimensional and boring. I also prefer Earth over Mobius, and find it makes a lot more sense when you assume humans have always populated Sonic's world (albeit off camera for the classic games for the most part).

Still, what are your thoughts on this? Let's discuss!

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I think all the arguing is silly. Regardless of what form/continuity/media that you know him from, Sonic is Sonic. Whether or not a fan/person has preferences over other variations of him is up to them, and them alone, and trying to argue over the defining factor/continuity/whatever is just a headache waiting to happen.

Personally, I'm going to be doing what I've done for nearly every new Sonic title that's come along - wait and see, and enjoy what we already have of the blue blur to kick back and relax while I anticipate it.

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I never actually began my younger life as a Sonic fan. The first Sonic game I ever played was, of all games, Advance 2. The explanation is a a long and silly one (read: idiot watches someone else play Advance 1's X Zone and thinks it's cool), but either way I enjoyed it. As such, I knew about Eggman/Robotnik being one and the same instantly. Even then, all the kids at my primary school always said "Robotnik". They never said "Eggman". (Then again, they were AoStH fans, but still.)

Feeling I owe it to myself to play the older games so that I wasn't missing out, I later got Mega Collection, thus, there was more mentioning of "Robotnik", "roboticizing" and "Mobius". I remember looking at the Manuals section, reading the zone descriptions in excitement. "Lava Reef sounds cool!" "What's a Panic Puppet?" "How will Sonic fight Robotnik in Wing Fortress?

As of now, while I'm okay with how Sonic goes anyway, I'd have liked to combine some concepts from both sides. For instance, I liked the many different islands and Badnik battery methods (because you know, I enjoy believing that it's even worse than roboticizing) in the Japanese storylines, but on the other hand I liked the idea of Sonic having his "own" world (don't care what the name is - Mobius, Planet Freedom, whatever) and Robotnik being a sort of "animal boogeyman" type figure.

Take note that me preferring Sonic living in Not-Earth doesn't mean I exclude Not-Robotnik humans. I'm fine with humans and animals living in harmony (provided they're Unleashed-style of course). Also, just because I use "Robotnik" more in my posts doesn't mean I don't like "Eggman" - I like both names equally, but just happen to be more familiar with using Robotnik.

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I'm an American, but I personally prefer the games over the cartoon series. I have nothing against the cartoons, but people overrate them too much and don't realize that Sonic is a video game icon and not a cartoon icon.

My first Sonic game is the one that started it all (Sonic 1 for the Genesis).

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At this point, I barely even care. I'm tired of looking back.

I go with the Japanese version because that's what the series tends to follow these days.

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I've never even looked up the Japanese continuation, so I know very little aside from the fact that they called the villain "Eggman" instead of "Robotnik". I've grown with the American take, but that's largely separated from the game version for so many reasons, with the biggest being the large inconsistency with the games and the cartoons.

The only thing that I brought from the cartoons into the game was the name of the planet Sonic lived on. I've always assumed that the game universe called it "Mobius" but ever since they changed it to "Earth" I've just went with that.

But for the most part, I've always looked at the games as their own continuity because of the above reasons.

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The first Sonic media i was aware of was AoStH, and when i played the Mega Drive games i guess always assumed that they took place in the same universe as the games. Then SatAM started airing in my country, and i realized that it definetely took place in a different universe than AoStH, but i cant remember which of the universes i interpreted the games as taking place in, if any. Then when i got a bit older however i realized that the games probably took place in their own universe.

And then Adventure came out when i was 12 and confused the crap out of me. Even if i had at this point realized that the games weren't connected to the cartoons, i had absolutely no idea that there were differences between the Japanese and Western storylines for the games (im not sure i had even realized that the Sonic games were Japanese...). I was confused over whether the games still took place on Mobius or whether the location had magically shifted to Earth, and the fact that everyone in the game suddenly called Robotnik "Eggman" bothered me quite a lot. Even to this day, i still like to argue that Sega's way of introducing the "Eggman" name to westerners was poor. I mean, if you (like i did) take for granted that "Robotnik" is the characters name, and have no idea about the whole "Eggman in Japan" deal, then the other characters constant use of that name in the game just comes of as really, really weird. When it's heard for the first time it's supposed to be and insult from Sonic, but it get's weird when you realize that everyone (except Robotnik/Eggman himself) calls him that all the time, so it kinda comes of like that at some point prior to the game, the whole Sonic-universe came together and said "you know what would be fun everyone, if we all start calling Robotnik "EGGMAN" just to tick him off! Yeah, let's do that!". Whenever i try to explain how odd this whole thing seemed to me at the time, i always tell people to try to imagine playing a new Mario game and finding out that the whole Mario-universe suddenly calls Bowser "Spikebutt" with no explanation at all of how that came to be.

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I tend to stick with the Japanese iteration of the classic backstories. Sega of America effectively botched their own versions by making Knuckles Chaotix story completely inconsistent with everything else.

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Once again, I will cite the Concept: Mobius analysis because I like how well it fits: in 1993 when the continuities suddenly exploded in all directions, there really was no direction up to that point, since all that was released were the first two games , the only major characters were Sonic, Tails and Robotnik, and as a result the possibilities were boundless. The first two cartoons and the Archie comics were done with the blessing of Sega of America, so their canonocity is sound if separate. And the fact is that some people first experienced Sonic through these media rather than the games. However, reason for any divide: no good reason.

The moment I read the Japanese manual translations and discovered that the Sonic games had a much deeper storyline than most Americans and Europeans were let in on, I found it hard to look back to before. Do not get me wrong: I enjoy the cartoons and comics for their own merits, but it is not coincidence that my favorite non-game media that can be considered "classic" is the OVA. Back in a time when it was hard to find games that really connected to each other through story, I saw Sonic as much bigger than I had seen his universe before. I was most probably most inspired by seeing the links between Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure, and since then, there has been no other storyline worth closely following and connecting the dots.

The two most important things I look for in video games are storyline and soundtrack, and Sonic still excels in both.

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...And the gameplay, right?

Gameplay's kind of important too.

Edited by Dr. Crusher
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I prefer the Satam and Archie canons over the Japanese Sonic canon.

I feel that Satam and Archie improved upon the storyline. I feel that Satam and Archie ofter more in the way of storytelling.

I like Sonic better as a freedom fighter then as a wonder who runs all over the world looking for adventure.

I prefer Robotnik as a evil man with no redeeming personality traits over silly manchild Eggman.

I prefer Princess Sally, Bunnie Rabbot, Rotor, and Antoine over most of the game cast.

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Japanese Sonic canon, all the way.

There's so much more the Japanese instruction manuals did with Sonic's story, mostly no one has any idea. I wish people would read up more on them because they explain a good bit of information regarding the continents Sonic traverses through, and the correlation of them and the Chaos Emeralds. I love how in this Sonic is also the original owner of the Tornado biplane, lived in Christmas Island originally, and flew from country to country on watch for Robotnik's devious plans, making sure he doesn't continue to hold hostage the animal population of the Earth, or worse yet take over the Earth.

The modern series also connects near seamlessly with this canon, besides the issue where Knuckles suddenly decided to place the Master Emerald in a much more vulnerable spot on Angel Island.

Edited by Azukara
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I prefer the Satam and Archie canons over the Japanese Sonic canon.

I feel that Satam and Archie improved upon the storyline. I feel that Satam and Archie ofter more in the way of storytelling.

I like Sonic better as a freedom fighter then as a wonder who runs all over the world looking for adventure.

I prefer Robotnik as a evil man with no redeeming personality traits over silly manchild Eggman.

I prefer Princess Sally, Bunnie Rabbot, Rotor, and Antoine over most of the game cast.

Do you mind explaining instead of just saying "X is better than X because I said so"

As for me....I'm a modern fanboy so I guess I lean more towards the Japanese continuity more than anything else, I tried watching SATAM couldn't get into it, it just didn't feel like Sonic to me.

I dunno the Japanese continuity stood out to me more, and actually made sense of things that the american side screwed up

Edited by Shadic93
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Do you mind explaining instead of just saying "X is better than X because I said so"

As for me....I'm a modern fanboy so I guess I lean more towards the Japanese continuity more than anything else, I tried watching SATAM couldn't get into it, it just didn't feel like Sonic to me.

I dunno the Japanese continuity stood out to me more, and actually made sense of things that the american side screwed up

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I'd argue freedom in some sense to be an inherent desire for most people and sentient creatures on the planet, thus it needs about as much explaining as a love for oxygen. And Sonic's love of freedom is directly challenged whenever some villain, Eggman or otherwise, strives to take it away under the guise of world domination. Neither of these things needs explaining.

Regardless though, I'm a Japanese continuity nut and have been since the switch over, but I don't particularly despise other entities.

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I've never watched the cartoons or read the comics (not that they were sold here anyway), so I've got a preference for the games canon. Now, about the Japanese/American split, I guess I'll go with the Japanese one because, although now I can't remember why, everyone was aware of the different canon in Japan, and since Sonic Adventure took more elements from the Japanese canon, that's what I go by.

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I personally prefer the Japanese canon because it makes more sense and also the wackier Robotnik (Sonic OVA FTW!!). On the other hand, I do like the American canon because I like the idea of the planet being named Mobius. Maybe Mobius could be a sister planet to Earth, sort of like in Sonic X. Now, while I did like the SatAM Robotnik, I personally find the OVA Robotnik more preferable. It seems like Eggman is sort of like the OVA Robotnik. Anyways, in conclusion, I feel that the Japanese canon made more sense than any of the other canons so that's that.

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Because Satam and Archie explain why Sonic has a love for freedom for starters. In the games we never really see Sonic's love for freedom really being challenged. In fact in the games Sonic doesn't even treat Robotnik as a serious threat.

Does something so simple as "love for freedom" really need explaining?

As for liking Sally, Bunnie, Rotor, Antoine over most of the game cast is because I feel that they have more in the way of personality then most of the game characters. Amy has little in the way of personality outside of her crush on Sonic. Cream has no personality outside of being polite, and being polite is more of a character trait then a personality.

Other than maybe Sally, all those other characters you mentioned are no better. Hell, even Sally falls into that same category. Rotor is your generic smart guy, Bunnie is the cowgirl, Antoine is the coward, Sally is the standardized leader. etc.

Mobius feels like a living breathing world then the world in the games which is not set in stone and changes from game to game.

How is Mobius any livelier than the Game World? They're both inconsistant to me.

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I grew up with Sonic since I was two years old and since I am American I grew up with all the cartoons and American media. I'm one of those strange ones who grew up off of all the Sega Genesis games and Satam and AOSTH cartoons and strongly follows and loves the Japanese continuity way more. As a kid I never really focused on Sonic's storylines much in the cartoons and when it came to playing the games I didn't really know how to read the manuals at my young age and just pretty much used my imagination honestly. I just loved Sonic because he was Sonic and he was my childhood hero. When Sonic Adventure first came out and Robotnik was slowly being turned into and referenced as Eggman and Mobius was now Earth I found it a bit odd and at first felt really confused but I didn't really mind it whatsoever.

I loved Sonic OVA way more than any of the cartoons I've watched before it though and still watch it so much till this day and wish it was a series. As I got older and learned about the Japanese storylines to the Sega Genesis games and got my eyes on the adorable Japanese Classic Art I was pretty much hooked on Classic Japanese Sonic. If you read the Japanese manuals for all the Sega Genesis and Mega CD games they are COMPLETELY different to the Americans manuals and have much more depth and story to them and also give some origin to certain things and the transition from Classic Sonic media to the New Generation media such as Adventure and onwards is just much more smooth and makes way more sense and doesn't really leave that many plot holes. If anything Adventure did a good and creative job at trying to tie Sonic 3 And Knuckles Japanese storyline into the New Generation media. In Classic Japanese Sonic's media theres just so much more story and you get more information on Sonic and his friends and the world they live in that the American manuals and media leave you completely clueless on.

In fact the Sonic CD manual is completely changed so they can tie in Sally and replaced Amy's name with Sally's and the rest of the original story was completely lost in translation. I kind of hate that, even though I love all the different varieties and concepts on Sonic and his world I hate how if there is perfectly good story why is there no direct translation, why change it to something completely different? I guess it was just the era at the time and America wanting Sonic to be this badass dude with the attitude but I felt like the manuals stories didn't really need all that changing. In the Classic Sonic's storylines we learn Sonic was born and originally lived on Christmas Island and he and Eggman had been rivals since before the events of Sonic 1. In the Sonic 1 manual they explain the Chaos Emeralds and how they are in this inner dimension (aka Special Stages) within the island that Sonic mostly hangs out on South Island and the island rotates because of them and Eggman went out of his way searching for them. The manual also explains how powerful the emeralds are and how Eggman can use and wants to use their raw power for evil and creating nuclear weapons of destruction.

It also gives a little more depth to his animal friends being turned into badniks and makes it sound like its Eggman's first time doing this and you get to hear Sonic's reaction to this. Now the American manual has basically three sentences mentioning the Evil Dr. Robotnik and how everyone got turned into Robots and Sonic must save them. All the other information pertaining to South Island and the Chaos Emeralds are completely lost. I love Sonic 2's Japanese manual story a lot. The biplane was originally Sonic's plane that he flew all over when travelling to explore and have adventures, the Classic Sonic world sounds like a world that consists of many giant islands so it makes sense. We learn about West Side Island where Sonic 2's events take place on and its legend which actually ties into Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Sonic Adventures storyline almost perfectly and foreshadows Sonic 3's events. We get a little biography on Miles Tails Prower and how he was picked on by animals for his twin tails and how he and Sonic meet. They mention how Tails finds and falls in love with Sonic's plane and their fateful meeting right upon starting their adventure.

Then enter's Eggman and you see the area's being destroyed and him using his badniks and such and it explains some of the levels in Sonic 2 such as Chemical Plant Zone. Sonic CD's manual explains why Amy is there, and gives you a little information about her as a character. It mentions Sonic wanting to see the Miracle Planet unknowing of Eggman's evil deeds and plans and what he has done to the Little Planet. I find it funny how the American manual is just SonAlly the entire time promoting Satam. I mean its for a good laugh but I am kind of mad at them butchering the storyline and leaving so much information out! Because come on the original stories were great! Definitely worth the read and you get a better outlook and idea on Sonic's world and his personality too. The OVA makes much more sense once you understand the Japanese story to Classic Sonic and I absolutely love the OVA along with all its Sonic CD references and art style.

Sonic 3's manual is a direct continuation from Sonic 2's where immediately after the Death Egg crashes Eggman gets back to work trying to get it back into orbit and obtaining the Chaos Emeralds. We get a biography and introduction to Knuckles character and story and we learn a little bit more about the ancient civilization mentioned in Sonic 2's manual because of the immediate link between the two games. We see how Knuckles is deceived and how the Chaos Emeralds vanish before his eyes making his reasons for stealing Sonic's emeralds make all the more sense. Sonic and Tails landed on a coastline somewhere where Sonic finds a old relic on the ground that links to the ancient civilization backstory from Sonic 2 and the beginning for Sonic 3. They go to search for the floating island in the legends thus starting Sonic 3. Adventure is a direct link to the storyline mentioned in Sonic 2's and 3's Japanese manual and I find it flowed rather nicely even though I find the Echidna's going to war killing little chaos to steal emeralds a bit jarring lol.

Hopefully I'm not going to far off topic but yeah I may have grown up on all the American Sonic media I really love and prefer the Japanese storyline and media much more and find the stories all flow much better together, leave less plot holes and have more information and imagination to them then the American counterparts. I am also in love with the old Japanese Classic artwork. <3 But I'm really one of the rarest Sonic fans out there that isn't really picky and pretty much like all the general media out there. I find people arguing and having wars over what is better just ridiculous and a waste of energy. Whatever version of Sonic you love more is completely up to you thats what opinions are for. Everyone has their own preferences so not everyone will be on the same page. Whether you like the Archie or Fleetway comics more or the games more its completely up to you. This is just as ridiculous as fighting over whether or not Classic Sonic had buckles on his shoes or not which I find insane! Just go watch Sonic CD's intro and ending movies and look at some Classic Sonic art American and Japanese people...lol.

Edited by SonikkuGenesis89
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I was brought into this whole thing through the comics and cartoons. Anything from there, such as "fastest thing alive", the Sonic & Tails dynamic, Sonic's love for Chili-Dogs, Mobius, Robuttnik, the Freedom Fighters; these things are all the definitive "old school Sonic" for me. I wouldn't get to have a Sega Genesis until 2000, so all these media were all I had to go on.

When I first got a hold of the games, there didn't seem to be any contradictions at all. I was just as used to AoStH as I was to StH so the fact that only Sonic & Tails were present wasn't really a bother. I think the one thing that really messed me up as far as this thing goes is the internet. Once you get on to the internet, you start hearing loads of fanboys mention the Japanese this and the Japanese that. I'm just like dude, really? Do I look freakin Japanese? Furthermore do I look like I care about anything they did? I would eventually go on to care greatly about their women, but that's another point altogether.

I was definitely one of those guys that tried to put everything together though. I was strongly against the idea of division and wanted one coherent story between all things Sonic. If it wasn't for Transformers, I still would be strongly against the idea of division; though I do admit, I would like to see one coherent story or unification between all things Sonic. Some days, I would like to read about Sonic & Tails traveling to the worlds of the wisps to thwart Eggman's latest scheme, and I would like to play through Sally's view of the Suppression Squad's attempted takeover of Mobius. I would like another Sonic Rivals featuring Sonic, Shadow, Metal Sonic, Scourge. We could call it the Clone Battles or something.

To be honest, I have no preference. I want them all together in a beautiful harmonious blend. The fact that I can't have this is the single most irritating thing about this entire franchise and I will probably bitch about it til the day I die or lose internet. Melodramatic but whatever. I'm a petty ass nigga like that XD

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I always liked the Japanese look on the Knuckles Chaotix storyline myself. It sounded very devious on Robotnik's part, ho ho ho.

Even so, I still hold the American/Western/whatever manuals to heart. Lines such as "Crush Dr. Robotnik!" and "Robotnik now rules the factories, refineries and cities!" and "Robotnik's robots will really be gunning for you here!" are fondly remembered by yours truly.

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I think the continuities really change how we view "retro" and "modern."

To the Japanese fans, the modern games made their once happy-go-lucky cutesy series a lot darker and edgier.

To American/European fans, the modern games softened up their once dark-and-edgy series with comparatively "kiddy" plots.

It's interesting that the modern games ended up being a middleground between the two opposing portrayals of classic Sonic in a way.

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To American/European fans, the modern games softened up their once dark-and-edgy series with comparatively "kiddy" plots.

Actually, I would say that the modern games kept the tone relatively the same. Sonic was never really overly dark as a whole. Sure you had the one more serious show, but it was counterbalanced by the much lighter show airing alongside it.

Furthermore, Underground, and the comics have about the same tone as the games today do. Just a bit serious, but full of cheese at the same time.

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Actually, I would say that the modern games kept the tone relatively the same. Sonic was never really overly dark as a whole. Sure you had the one more serious show, but it was counterbalanced by the much lighter show airing alongside it.

Furthermore, Underground, and the comics have about the same tone as the games today do. Just a bit serious, but full of cheese at the same time.

Shows are distinct from "SoA" game story, though. SoA's game plot was different from the SoJ game plot, but also distinct from the cartoons and comics as well.

For example, while SoA Robotnik was a hole-eyed heartless madman who literally turned animals into robots according to the manuals, there's no reason to believe he had any identity before "Ivo Robotnik," so he's distinct from SatAM's Julian despite being a very similar character. He's not the lovable glasses-wearing version of classic Eggman, but he's not the glowy red-eyes cartoon version either. ...or the funny red-eyes cartoon version, while we're at it.

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