So...anyone believe this will unite the fanbase?

[YoshiUnity]

Bringing the fanbase together? In my honest opinion...

I just can't see it happening. In fact, I think that this game will go through basically what Unleashed went through, except much more mixed. (I can already see the napalm of debates flying in and burning everything.) This game will basically have the bread and butter of classic Sonic Fans, combined with the toast and jam of modern Sonic fans. Even if both gameplay styles were programmed and design to perfection, some, possibly most, will like one side more than the other.

It can be that they find the other bit of gameplay more dull, or that they just won't accept it. The thing about this that sucks is that there are a lot of things in Sonic these days that is love/hate. And this goes for both Classic and Modern fans. Put the boost in, take it out; love and hate. Homing attack; love and hate. So on and so forth... Let's not forget that there are fans that straight up refuse to see anything good about the opposing style. And you're going to have people like that no matter what sadly.

Now, it could widen the mixed crowd as well. Some people are open to trying things their not too sure of; however, I don't see that number increasing to a much massive scale this time.

Edited April 22, 2011 by YoshiUnity is not a meme

[SuperClassic]

What is there to unite? Anytime I hear unite, and fanbase, I think of communism and brainwash, I'm not kidding. Everyone has their own opinion, and giving people what they want wont change what they got before, or their opinions on what they got before.

[JaidynReiman]

People are still going to complain that "Modern Sonic" appears, "Shadow" appears, "Other Characters" are playable (IF they are)... It doesn't particularly matter if they're optional or not. People will complain if they're even in the game. And some people will complain about the opposite.

So, no... it won't unite the fanbase. It isn't going to. Now, it may help a ton more people to buy the game because they get to play as both CLASSIC and MODERN Sonic in the same game... but classic/modern Sonic fans will complain about both appearing. Fans of both will love this game absolutely to death.

If the game turns out the way it looks to be, it may wind up being the greatest selling Sonic game ever (especially if more characters are OPTIONALLY playable...). But that doesn't mean it will "unite" the fanbase. That's NEVER going to happen.

[batson]

Speaking more generally about the broken fanbase, i still find it very fascinating that in these post-Unleashed days there are actually two distinct militant retro-fractions of the fanbase. In the not-to-distant olden days, there were just the Classic-fans going "bring the series back to the way it was!" and the modern and/or universal fans going "Nah, the series is fine as it is". Nowadys, we still of course have the Classic-fans going "bring the series back to the way it was!" but ALSO a certain fraction of the former modern fans that have reacted negatively to the most recent changes to the series and thus become what we can call Adventure-fans who are ALSO saying "bring the series back to the way it was!", only "the way it was" to them means something completely different than it does to the Classic-era fans. And then of course we have the, err, modern-modern and/or universal fans going "Nah, he series is doing fine as it is".

You all already know all of this of course, so maybe it's just a waste of space to spell it out like this. But im just saying, as a long time Sonic fan this recent development in the fanbase is very interesting to me, and im dying to see how Sega will react to this in the future. As of now, i honestly suspect that Sega has not yet realized that the Adventure-era fraction is a force of it's own. They probably interpret the fanbase as more or less being split in terms of 2D/pre-Adventure fans and 3D/post-Adventure fans, and they probably think they are doing the entire fanbase a favor with Generations. Those poor, innocent, well-meaning fools.

[Scar]

After this game, Sonic Team should say "fuck what they want, what about what WE want"

The only reason I can see anyone joining Sonic Team, is if they were a long-time fan of the series. Possibly money, but if you wanted that, you'd probably go to Nintendo.

So it should be fair to assume that most, if not all members of Sonic Team are a fan of the series, or what the series used to be. The only reason they're doing what they're doing is because its what the fans want, and its what is considered to be popular.

I'm sure members of Sonic Team have a vision of what their ideal Sonic is. Heck I'm sure Iizuka also has a vision for the ideal Sonic, and it might even be what we're all dreaming of. Naturally, they can't do that, because it has already been determined that the Unleashed formula is popular and makes money. The Unleashed formula was made because people were complaining about 3D Sonic games (cough Sonic 06) were too slow. So they looked at the massive popularity of Sonic Rush, and brought that into 3D (spectacularly mind you).

See all Sonic Team has been doing, is making what is popular and what fans "like". When Rush was released, people, including fans were gawping at it and said it was the best Sonic game released in ages. This was obviously in 2006-7, so Sonic Team Jr (Post 2006) then took that idea and made it into 3D.

Making levels that large would be too resource heavy, so they needed something extra to make sure the game isn't bitched at for being too short. They could have used other characters, but after 06 people would have probably thrown a fit at such an idea, so what they did was keep in Sonic only, but just physically change Sonic in order to support a different type of gameplay.

The reason why Sonic 1 - 3 and Knuckles and Adventure 1 was so good, was because they weren't looking at what people wanted. At the time, it was a labour of love on Sonic Teams part. They all bound together and created a game series out of passion. That is what is lacking from the games right now.

We still don't know what Sonic Team want from a Sonic game. We don't know what their ideas are for their perfect version of Sonic is. As I've said, Sonic Team probably consists of people who are fans of Sonic. That's the only reason they would join Sonic Team at all.

I want to see what Sonic Team can do when they don't have to worry about our opinions bearing down on them. If they limit themselves to keep on making games the way we want to make them, or the way which is deemed most popular and profitable, then will hit a glass ceiling, of "above average". Why? Because people tend to do better when they are doing what they want to do.

If they do what they want to do, then the games will be imbued with a passion and sparkle that simply cannot exist in a game they are forced to make, no matter how polished it is.

I wonder if any of this made any sense?

Edited April 22, 2011 by Scar

[Core]

The reason why Sonic 1 - 3 and Knuckles and Adventure 1 was so good, was because they weren't looking at what people wanted. At the time, it was a labour of love on Sonic Teams part. They all bound together and created a game series out of passion. That is what is lacking from the games right now.

I wonder how you can tell such a thing. Just because they're listening to the fans on some aspects, why does that means they have no passion for what they do? How do yo know they just don't want the same things as the fans? Moreover, how can you tell in which conditions the old games were created?

Now, I agree with you that they shouldn't listen to the fans. I just don't understand how you can judge how much passion they put in each game.

[Segakid]

I wonder how you can tell such a thing. Just because they're listening to the fans on some aspects, why does that means they have no passion for what they do? How do yo know they just don't want the same things as the fans? Moreover, how can you tell in which conditions the old games were created?

Now, I agree with you that they shouldn't listen to the fans. I just don't understand how you can judge how much passion they put in each game.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Segakid

[Scar]

I wonder how you can tell such a thing. Just because they're listening to the fans on some aspects, why does that means they have no passion for what they do? How do yo know they just don't want the same things as the fans? Moreover, how can you tell in which conditions the old games were created?

Now, I agree with you that they shouldn't listen to the fans. I just don't understand how you can judge how much passion they put in each game.

I'm not saying they didn't put any passion into it. Colours and Unleashed clearly showed a lot of effort.

What I am saying is that they'd be more passionate about something if they came up with the concept instead of us and built it up into something special.

[Core]

OK, but what do you mean by "if they came up with the concept instead of us"? When did fans ever choose the concept of a game? Even with blatant fan-service like the inclusion of Classic Sonic, I don't think they would have done it if they hadn't wanted to.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

OK, but what do you mean by "if they came up with the concept instead of us"? When did fans ever choose the concept of a game? Even with blatant fan-service like the inclusion of Classic Sonic, I don't think they would have done it if they hadn't wanted to.

I think he means for them not rely on fan input so much. They could at least consider some ideas if they look promising, but overall they shouldn't make something for us as if they owe us anything. Catering to it too much can cause a mess due to differences that may come out of it, and especially if not handled well. (of course)

Edited April 23, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[ChikaBoing]

d it might even be what we're all dreaming of. Naturally, they can't do that, because it has already been determined that the Unleashed formula is popular and makes money. The Unleashed formula was made because people were complaining about 3D Sonic games (cough Sonic 06) were too slow. So they looked at the massive popularity of Sonic Rush, and brought that into 3D (spectacularly mind you).

See all Sonic Team has been doing, is making what is popular and what fans "like". When Rush was released, people, including fans were gawping at it and said it was the best Sonic game released in ages. This was obviously in 2006-7, so Sonic Team Jr (Post 2006) then took that idea and made it into 3D.

Making levels that large would be too resource heavy, so they needed something extra to make sure the game isn't bitched at for being too short. They could have used other characters, but after 06 people would have probably thrown a fit at such an idea, so what they did was keep in Sonic only, but just physically change Sonic in order to support a different type of gameplay.

Actually the Unleashed formula was already decided at the end of 2005,to make a gameplay concept for the Next-Generation of Consoles, the true Sonic 06 as it were(according to Wentos). The Unleashed formula was a respose to critisism of the hap-hazard stuff of Heroes,06 and Shadow, but also a rsponse to the crtisismn to Camera angles in the Adventure Series,and for those who wanted 2d gameplay. Rush and Secret Rings were actually a pieces of the already planned Unleashed formula, or at least I'm pretty sure Dimps didn't come up with the Boost.And Secret Rings was claimed to be the "best" 3D Sonic game, by many reviewers, so they just further wanted to use the "behind the back" gameplay.

And Sonic Team had always been more or less the same ever since the Dreamcast days, they were some new-time people for Unleashed, and some old-time people came back again who worked in the Adventure days, and stuff like that, but nothing major. Fun fact: The Lead game designer for 06 was Werehog Level Designer.

You are also right about the Werehog stuff, but that and the Hubs, were merely an attempt to recreate Sonic Adventure with all of it's stuff. And for many people asking for Adveture 3, I guess they just rolled along with it.

The only reason I can see anyone joining Sonic Team, is if they were a long-time fan of the series. Possibly money, but if you wanted that, you'd probably go to Nintendo.

I think it's more of a reason that it's easier to get to work at Sonic Team than Nintendo.

Edited April 23, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Burning Neoxor]

Unless there is an unlockable hybrid sonic that takes what made classic sonic great and somehow makes new substantive developments to those core mechanics, then this just further the divide. I can already see this as setting the stage for a (sicking) debate about who should be the future of the franchise, "black-eyes" classic sonic or "green-eyes" modern sonic.

[Gamerguy21]

Actually the Unleashed formula was already decided at the end of 2005,to make a gameplay concept for the Next-Generation of Consoles, the true Sonic 06 as it were(according to Wentos).

Don't believe anything Wentos said. He's been proven to be a fake with the announcement of Mario & Sonic at the London Olympics, since he said the next Mario & Sonic would be an adventure game.

And it's not like anything he said was amazingly true, either. After Unleashed came out, he claimed the next game would be 100% daytime gameplay with Tails and Knuckles as playable characters. But last I checked, neither Tails nor Knuckles were playable in Colors. Now, he could have been referring to this game, but even then there are still 2 flaws:

1. Tails and Knuckles might not even be playable in this.

2. This isn't the next main series game after Unleashed. (Colors was)

That was a bit off-topic, but I just wanted to point out that Wentos shouldn't be used as a source.

[KrazyBean]

After this game, Sonic Team should say "fuck what they want, what about what WE want"

The only reason I can see anyone joining Sonic Team, is if they were a long-time fan of the series. Possibly money, but if you wanted that, you'd probably go to Nintendo.

So it should be fair to assume that most, if not all members of Sonic Team are a fan of the series, or what the series used to be. The only reason they're doing what they're doing is because its what the fans want, and its what is considered to be popular.

I'm sure members of Sonic Team have a vision of what their ideal Sonic is. Heck I'm sure Iizuka also has a vision for the ideal Sonic, and it might even be what we're all dreaming of. Naturally, they can't do that, because it has already been determined that the Unleashed formula is popular and makes money. The Unleashed formula was made because people were complaining about 3D Sonic games (cough Sonic 06) were too slow. So they looked at the massive popularity of Sonic Rush, and brought that into 3D (spectacularly mind you).

See all Sonic Team has been doing, is making what is popular and what fans "like". When Rush was released, people, including fans were gawping at it and said it was the best Sonic game released in ages. This was obviously in 2006-7, so Sonic Team Jr (Post 2006) then took that idea and made it into 3D.

Making levels that large would be too resource heavy, so they needed something extra to make sure the game isn't bitched at for being too short. They could have used other characters, but after 06 people would have probably thrown a fit at such an idea, so what they did was keep in Sonic only, but just physically change Sonic in order to support a different type of gameplay.

The reason why Sonic 1 - 3 and Knuckles and Adventure 1 was so good, was because they weren't looking at what people wanted. At the time, it was a labour of love on Sonic Teams part. They all bound together and created a game series out of passion. That is what is lacking from the games right now.

We still don't know what Sonic Team want from a Sonic game. We don't know what their ideas are for their perfect version of Sonic is. As I've said, Sonic Team probably consists of people who are fans of Sonic. That's the only reason they would join Sonic Team at all.

I want to see what Sonic Team can do when they don't have to worry about our opinions bearing down on them. If they limit themselves to keep on making games the way we want to make them, or the way which is deemed most popular and profitable, then will hit a glass ceiling, of "above average". Why? Because people tend to do better when they are doing what they want to do.

If they do what they want to do, then the games will be imbued with a passion and sparkle that simply cannot exist in a game they are forced to make, no matter how polished it is.

I wonder if any of this made any sense?

*sniff* You deserve a f'ing medal mate, such true words from a wise man!!

[Scar]

*sniff* You deserve a f'ing medal mate, such true words from a wise man!!

Aww thanks, and holy shit +14!?!?

Also, I have a TL;DR for that post:

I want to see what Sonic Team can create using their own creativity, rather than seeing how well they can replicate our dreams.

[SilentDoom]

*Epic speech*

...

[CanofEpicSauce]

But while we're talking about that link, BigAl is pretty pathetic too.

Edited April 24, 2011 by CanofEpicSauce

[sonfan1984]

But while we're talking about that link, BigAl is

pretty pathetic too.

That video don't really have anything to do with this discussion so I don't really care what he likes to do on camera in his free time.

[Gamenerd]

It'll be a ruddy good game but it won't unite the fanbase - if anything, this game is almost too eager to separate the fanbase into entirely different segments rather than attempting to unify both. It looks like it will please many parts of fanbase (or at least, all but the incredibly picky), but I don't think this kind of game could possibly bring the fanbase together.

Generations is sort of legitimizing the split in the fanbase that some developers have mentioned in the past. It's making it seem glaring, rather than glossing over it and trying to combine the best of both worlds. We'll see how it turns out but a Zelda-esque franchise split would be no bad thing in my opinion.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Gamenerd

[Saint Nathan]

Who the fuck wants this fanbase 'united'?

Modern and Classic fans do not need to be united. They're not even the main split in the fanbase. The split is between "People who are cool" and "People who suck". And I don't want the people that suck all mixed up in my cool people.

It is not like chocolate and peanut butter. It is like chocolate and mayonnaise. It does not make Reeses. It makes idiot people yelling about everything while the not idiot people have their hands glued to their faces.

You know what they're trying to do? Make a good game. That's what they care about, making a fun game that will get more sales. Adding Classic Sonic was something they did partially as a marketing device, partially to allow for more platforming, and mostly to get fans of the classic games to go "holy shit this looks like something i should buy!"

And it's working. So in that sense, yeah they have. But in the actual split of people in this fanbase? Hell no they have not, and I hope they never do.

[i don't like pie]

sadly no i've already seen complaining that they used the wrong classic model which was a massive wtf

[sonfan1984]

sadly no i've already seen complaining that they used the wrong classic model which was a massive wtf

Ugh. People are just LOOKING for things to complain about. Sega finally brought classic Sonic back and now they're complaining about the model.

I mean, what's wrong with this model of classic Sonic?

It shows that some people will never be happy nomatter what.

[LoseR]

The only thing I CAN say is that this game will either UNITE or TEAR APART the fanbase... Nothing else...

[Gaming Misfit]

I think ST has put in some pretty awesome effort with this game. It looks like a miracle game to me as of right now. I personally love both classic and modern Sonic, so I'm very excited. Plus, just seeing that they've been listening to us as of lately, and taking it to heart is great to know.

As for everyone else, I think the majority of the Sonic fanbase is satisfied thus far...Why shouldn't they be? If I didn't per say like modern (I do, but just an example) I would be willing to take a piece for my classic gameplay.

Sadly though, there will always be fucktards who hate on something just because it isn't exactly the way they want it. 'Tis a shame. All in all though, mostly everyone is happy I think.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Gaming Misfit

[Somecallmejohnny]

Will it unite the fanbase? Not a chance in Hell.

I -do- think that it'll be good enough to get Sonic back on his feet and try the 3D approach with less fail this time. The Unleashed formula is working well so far, but something tells me it can be improved further.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Johnny