Unleashed Daytime Gameplay: Good or Bad?

[T-Min]

In Sonic Generations, Modern Sonic will play like he did in Unleashed's daytime levels, with the focus placed more on speed. Though I fangasmed as soon as I saw that the daytime gameplay was returning, I have seen some comments expressing concern over the fact that these stages are "linear" or "automated." Thus, I decided to make a thread to see what the general opinion is: do you like the Unleashed style or do you think it needs to die?

As you can probably tell, I LOVE the Unleshed style. Though I don't believe that Sonic games should just be about SPEEDSPEEDSPEED, I personally found the daytime levels to be based less around OHEMGEELOOKATHOWFASTIAM and more around having quick reaction time and memorizing the levels. All of them had an arcade-like feeling. The first time you would play them, they would kick your butt HARD because you don't know what's coming and when. It encourages you to go back and play them over and over again until you've memorized the locations of the various traps, obstacles and shortcuts of the level, and when you're finally able to pull off a perfect run without dying or getting hit, you just feel so accomplished. And though I've probably S-ranked all ten of Unleashed's main daytime levels about 50 times, I still never get tired of going back and challenging my score and time to see if I can do better. It's a gameplay style that I hoped I would see return eventually, and I'm immensely glad that Generations is granting my wish. Of course, that's just me. What are your thoughts?

Edited April 25, 2011 by T-Man

[Diogenes]

Should be better.

[sonfan1984]

I don't really like the gameplay that much in Unleashed cause it's too much QTE's and trial and error memorization which I can find to be pretty frustrating. Sonic Colors fixes that, though so I find the gameplay more enjoyable.

Edited April 25, 2011 by sonfan1984

[Core]

I didn't dislike Unleashed, but I was hoping the Unleashed gameplay would not appear again. I don't like this design philosophy that requires you to memorize the level. The way the levels are designed, they feel more like race tracks or obstacle courses than proper levels. It's like you don't really have freedom, because too often you're just expected to press the right button at the right time. Also, I would prefer if there weren't 2D sections, because I expect a 3D game to be in 3D.

Colors mostly reused the same formula, it did some things better and some things worse, and I found the game mostly boring.

Generations is using this formula again, and from what we have seen so far it looks worse. I'm aware that it could change and/or the later levels could be different, but right now I have no reason to be optimistic. In any case I would prefer if they just didn't use the Unleashed formula.

[BlazingTales]

Give me Colours' platforming and less focus on QTEs/trial-and-error gameplay with Unleashed's fun and thrills, and I'll be very happy.

[Phos]

This is what I see when I look at Unleashed's gameplay.

[ChikaBoing]

I like it alot,and besides SA1 it's my favourite kind of modern Sonic. Tough after Generations they should stop using it. 3 games are enough, much like how there were 3 Advance games,3 Rush games, and the 3 Classic games. They should combine the best things from Unleashed and Adventure in the future.

Edited April 25, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Djawed]

It's not a good formula and has a lot of restrictions imo. Just looking at sonic generations green hill zone makes it sorta feel like deja vu with only the aestethics being different. SO one level you go and boost boost avoid obstacles with a little platforming. Next stage you do the same but a bit more complex with added botomless pits, and repeat. I was glad when they tweaked it up a little bit making it close to it's full potential in colors but you could still see the restrictions it had. What defines a platformer in it's core is the feel of control and physics. Then you can expand upon that and add gameplay elements that work for it. When talking about the classic pinball physics you think about using half pipes to come out higher and higher. Slinging up from a big downward slope etc. All these gameplay elements require your input. Sonic unleashed on the other hand cant do more than blazing speed, quickstep and drifting. I mean the last 2 were pretty well thought out, but slow segments mostly come by surprise and exist of regular platforming.

When I imagined a 20th aniversary game before it got anounced, I expected an allnew programmed engine that probably wouldn't blow me away or anything(my expectations are never that high), but at least make you move freely again. I guess that was a bit too much hastle for them.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Jaouad

[ChikaBoing]

Thing is when people say that Colors improved on it, is that most of the Improvment comes from making the game mostly 2d.

Edited April 25, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Djawed]

Thing is when people say that Colors improved on it, is that most of the Improvment comes from making the game mostly 2d.

No i actually loved the little 3d segments as well. They actually managed to put some alternate paths in it too

Also the little bits at sweet mountain, asteroid coaster and starlight carnaval. Planet wisp having the fewest. There wan't much sadly, which is probably the only complaint I had.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Jaouad

[JezMM]

I love Unleashed gameplay as many know, and feel Colours was an absoloute patronisation in terms of it's "improvements", namely stupidly simple 3D sections and mega man platforming in the 2D ones.

What I think is a missed opportunity was their insistance on making classic Sonic fully 2D in Generations. We already have 2D AND 3D with modern Sonic, and Adventure style 3D platforming does clash a bit with Unleashed style level design. If they put some Adventure style slow-paced 3D in classic Sonic's sections, everyone would be happy.

[Kuzu]

Its really hard to say, because I love Unleashed's sense of thrill and excitement, but its kind of lacking in the 3D platforming department, while Adventure is more or less a speedy Mario 64 clone, so neither of them are paritculary remarkable.

Sonic Unleashed basically is a race track, but considering its Sonic it kinda works for him, I mean it isn't completely devoid of platoforing in 3D, I mean eggmanland showed us that it has LOTS of platforming, and challenges. Adventure kinda had the more open ended levels, while still maintaining its pace.

We have no idea how the formula works in Generations, and I don't think we should judge it based on the first level alone, we all know the first level will always be for getting used to the controls.

[Rusty Spy]

Should be better.

has a lot of restrictions imo.

I agree here. There's a lot that Unleashed did that was really good, but when you look at the big picture, there's so much that Sonic can do, and the Unleashed gameplay heavily restricts itself by being too focused on the thrill that it sacrifices any sort of depth the game can have.

Thing is when people say that Colors improved on it, is that most of the Improvment is by making the game mostly 2d.

Not really actually, Colors had the best controls in a Sonic game. The Game Land's option to reduce Sonic's speed cap makes him control like a dream, not too fast, but not too slow. The only problem is that going too fast makes it impossible for Sonic to turn.

[ChikaBoing]

Not really actually, Colors had the best controls in a Sonic game. The Game Land's option to reduce Sonic's speed cap makes him control like a dream, not too fast, but not too slow. The only problem is that going too fast makes it impossible for Sonic to turn.

I thought that they made the controls that way, just so it works better with the 2d plattforming sections. In Unleashed, it was all about Speed, and controls are made for that, and there are actually little to no gameplay and physics-differences between both 3d and 2d,and the ration was 50/50. Where as in Colors, 3d was mostly speed, and 2d was the Main focus with it's plattforming and the physics changed for that,just so they can escape from making improvments on the 3d front.

Edited April 25, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Rusty Spy]

I thought that they made the controls that way, just so it works better with the 2d plattforming sections.

Uh, yeah, that's why they were better.

[ChikaBoing]

Uh, yeah, that's why they were better.

That's why I said that most of the improvments where on the 2d side.

[Rusty Spy]

That's why I said that most of the improvments where on the 2d side.

...........

Wait.... what? I merely said the controls were better in Colors. Why were you stating the obvious? You got me all confuzzled now.

[Scar]

A post I made which I think leads up to why I think Unleashed ended up as it is.

Well firstly you have to consider that Classic Sonic's physics whilst fun are wrong. Rolling up and down a half-pipe does not allow you to gain height. That much is basic physics: KE(max) = GPE(max), thus 1/2mv²=mgh.

Secondly, tight controls don't mix with good physics. The faster you are going, the more inertia you have. The more inertia you have the more difficult it becomes to change direction. This is one of many complaints about Unleashed. People keep complaining about Sonic having a 2-mile wide turning circle in Unleashed, but that's only because the physics actually work. That's why they created the quick-step and drift.

People would then say, "Well why don't you slow him down to SA levels of speed", well, because in Sonic Unleashed, if you don't boost, the top speed, is actually pretty close to SA1's top speed, but in Unleashed when you turn, you arc from side to side. In SA1, you twitch from side to side, completely disregarding inertia. The same is true in SA2.

Now you could say that the inertia there should be sacrificed for the sake of control, but then you also lose jumping inertia, ramp inertia and so on.

Also, another thing, rolling physics become severely fucked in 3D, because you are at the mercy of the terrain, because good physics would mean that you have extremely stiff controls whilst rolling. That does not make for good gameplay.

Another thing, having wide open spaces in 3D means that you essentially have wide open space completely devoid of level design, because its really fucking hard to make good level design and intersting, but playable terrain in 3D. Most of SM64 had levels with large empty feilds where there is nothing to do, but to run to the other side and find some place where there is actual level design. Heck that's why the planetoids in SMG[2] are so successful, because it means you don't have to run for ages across a large map before you reach anything interesting.

I could go on, but I'm tired and need some sleep.

However, I'm sure you realise by now that making 3D Sonic just the way you, I or we wanted is incredibly difficult. That is probably what resulted in Sonic Unleashed in the first place.

See all the different quirks brought to the table by 3D with regards to Sonic probably resulted in Sonic Team coming up with this kind of gameplay.

I mean surely Sonic Team must have had some kind of gleaming vision, that they themselves threw out simply because its too difficult yo actually do it well. Look at all the variables you have to take into account with a character that moves so quickly.

The best gameplay approximation to Sonic is a car, because no other organic character can move that quickly.

Technically speaking the best approximation to Sonic is a fighter jet.

[the blu blur]

Sonic Unleashed's gameplay is good...as a benchmark. A checkpoint, if you will. As with any checkpoints in Sonic games, these markers record progress, but are ultimately meant to be passed going forward.

[Kuzu]

A post I made which I think leads up to why I think Unleashed ended up as it is.

See all the different quirks brought to the table by 3D with regards to Sonic probably resulted in Sonic Team coming up with this kind of gameplay.

I mean surely Sonic Team must have had some kind of gleaming vision, that they themselves threw out simply because its too difficult yo actually do it well. Look at all the variables you have to take into account with a character that moves so quickly.

The best gameplay approximation to Sonic is a car, because no other organic character can move that quickly.

Technically speaking the best approximation to Sonic is a fighter jet.

Which leads to levels like Shadow's version of Wave Ocean or Arid Sands Act 3, wide open levels made for exploration, but the problem is there's almost nothing to explore in those levels, the only thing to do in those types of areas are find the switch that opens the end of the level, which is kinda boring to me really. This precicley is why I prefer Sa1/Sa2 Sonic's levels because yes while they are linear, but considering the games are more about speed and platforming than exploration it makes more sense for Sonic to get to the end of the stage as fast as he can, while dodging as many obstacles as possible. You can basically say Unleashed is a speedy version of Galaxy in terms of level design, just not as creative.

[goku262002]

Give me Colours' platforming and less focus on QTEs/trial-and-error gameplay with Unleashed's fun and thrills, and I'll be very happy.

This basically.

What i was hoping for was that Unleashed gameplay was just a start of things to come but felt more like sonic rush 3D and Colors gameplay was the refined version of Unleashed gameplay. Now it feels like they reverted back a peg by re-implementing just Unleashed gameplay. I'm wondering if they learned anything from Colors and some of Color's gameplay will be in generations at all?

[EXshad]

I liked it, to a point. I really think they could tone down the boost big time, mainly by stripping Sonic of the ability to gather a clusterfuck of rings by running 50 yards away from them. I also wanna see more emphasis on big areas with branching pathways, like Adabat, as well as some Chu-Nan/Colors platforming. They also have to trim down the automation, unless it's during chase-sequences or transitions between 2D/3D, because it can really take you out of the experience if you are not in control.

The problem with Unleashed I don't think was just the level design, it was the fact that the entire game was just a spam-the-boost-button contest. How long and hard could you cock-block the level from actually challenging you by boosting past everything? I like the boost a lot, but in moderation, and in Unleashed, you encouraged to always hold X. Instead of a "hold right" or "hold forward" game, it's a "hold X" game. The level design and the abilities they gave Sonic made the daytime levels nothing but speed runs. And I like the speed, don't get me wrong, but there has to be more to it than that, or else the speed isn't rewarding anymore; it's just monotonous. I had fun with it, yes, but it could have been so much better.

Edited April 26, 2011 by EXshad

[lounge]

The first time I played it I couldn't wait to get the feeling of running thru those environments. But when I finally did, damn was I bored. He basically maneuvers thru the levels for you with ease. It's like watching a movie. I still don't understand how it's possible for sonic to boost on the rails. That doesn't even make sense. Despite moving at high speeds while not boosting, it still feels like you're going slow, so the game tricks you into wanting to boost all the time. Boost thru the enemies, boost thru the tables and chairs, ugh! Playing Sonic Unleashed is the reason I don't want to buy Colors.

It's not just me, I let my sister play it and she got bored before even finishing the apotos level. With the exception of Sonic 06, I have more fun playing any other 3d sonic.

So yes the gameplay is bad. It's not broken, but it certainly isn't good. I don't get why a majority of the people who don't like the game, don't like it only because of the werehog. Time and time again I see the quote "If the game had all daytime stages it would've been awesome." It's weird to be in the minority with these kind of things, like being one of the few who enjoyed Shadow the Hegehog and was dissapointed in Twilight Princess.

[Diogenes]

I still don't understand how it's possible for sonic to boost on the rails. That doesn't even make sense.

Same way he can spin(dash) in place.

[lounge]

Same way he can spin(dash) in place.