Unleashed Daytime Gameplay: Good or Bad?

[Voyant]

Sorry to tell you this, but you're kinda doing a bad job at it.

I mean recently you've been constantly provoking and insulting people who just happen to have different opinions than you. See:

This topic is about what people think of the Unleashed style. Some people like it, some people dislike it, they express their opinions and that's all. Do you really have to come and start posting stuff like "Whether you guys like it or not The Unleashed style is here to stay [...] If you don't like it then you can go play Mario or something". I mean really? Don't you see how offensive it sounds?

Everyone has their own vision of how he Sonic franchise could improve, it would be nice it you would just stop acting like only yours is right or something.

And then you'll gladly call Sonic 4 lazy, but you throw a fit if someone else call any other game lazy. Sounds like a double standard.

I don't know why you've been acting like this, but really, just chill out.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Voyant

[Kuzu]

Ah, those narrow corridors, boost-fest and enemies no-one-gives-a-shit-about, because you take them down like ninepins?

No. It's not the style for Sonic to keep. It sure was fun in Unleashed, but since Colors it started becoming boring, because it's all the same shit. The adventures style of gameplay was much more flexible, there was more space for actually good level design and it was actually 3D gameplay.

Unleashed gameplay was fine for one game. It was OK for two games.. I'm not so sure if it'll be as fun for 3 games (Generations being the third). I don't think Sega should keep it. It's becoming boring, every Sonic game looks the same in terms of gameplay. No innovations.

The only good part in SU gameplay is speed of course. It's fantastic. I think Sega should mix the adventure type of gameplay with unleashed. Something like 60% SA gameplay and 40% Unleashed gameplay so that there could be a lot of exploration in 3D, platforming in 3D AND speed sections in 3D. And get rid of those stupid 2D parts. Leave them to 2D Sonic games where they belong. If I buy a 3D main Sonic game, I expect to see 3D gameplay, not some Sonic rivals like 2,5D stuff.

Unleashed has 3D gameplay too, just instead of jumping you're dodgeing. Why does everyone think Unleashed is just a boost fest? yeah it looks like one but I can tell by most gameplay videos it takes a lot of skill to get through those levels like that, and I'm pretty sure people died a million times before perfecting it.

For me Unleashed feels more like Sonic's own style rather than a speedy Mario like in the Adventure games, that's not to say I don't love it either, but Unleashed has its own charm. I do feel Adventure(The first one not the second) had better 3D level design however, and I hope we see some of that in Generations.

Also when was it Bad to put 2D in 3D games? I've played galaxy and Galaxy 2 a million times and they have plenty of 2D setions in their levels, it doesn't mean however that they suck when it comes to 3D.

[Sega DogTagz]

Also when was it Bad to put 2D in 3D games? I've played galaxy and Galaxy 2 a million times and they have plenty of 2D setions in their levels, it doesn't mean however that they suck when it comes to 3D.

Its not that its bad exactly, it more like Colors used it like a crutch. That game was particularly re-focused on delivering a solid platforming experience, but it almost always resorted back to the second dimension to get it done. A 3D Sonic game needs to strike a balance, or the whole thing may well as be 2D.

That being said, I think the Unleashed model is a great track to follow. Its fun and exhilarating and most of all delivers an experience that no other mascot platformer can duplicate. Colors refined the model a bit, and brought more creative level design to the table and even though it was a different squad I think some of the lessons they learned there will get put forth in this newest title. There are some problems with the format here and there, and I would like to see an emphasis on 3D platforming instead of the cheating the Colors team did, but all in all I like where the Hedgehog is headed. It works for me.

I also happen to think that the Unleashed playstyle is less of a diversion from the Adventure style than people give it credit for. SA2 plays just like Unleashed sometimes.

[Penny]

I absolutely LOVE Unleashed's gameplay. It's my favorite 3D Sonic game. I'll be the minority here and think Colors wasn't a big improvement. The only thing it improved on was the 2D sections. That's it. Sonic Unleashed had the much better 3D section and (while not part of the gameplay) I think the voice actors are better... anyway, another thing I like about Unleashed compared to Colors is the boost. In Colors you got boost by destroying enemies and white wisps. In Unleashed you got boost from rings. I like that a lot more. I think it's a good idea that Generations is using Unleashed's boost. A thing Generations impproved about the boost, however, is that the boost no longer attracts rings (at least from what I've seen). That way there at least is a limit on the boost, no matter how small. I also agree that they should add more platforming to the 3D sections; just a bit more than Unleashed's.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Grimchi3f

[ArtFenix]

Unleashed has 3D gameplay too

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, but mostly too linear.

[Core]

No Sonic game has ever been some giant sandbox; all are ultimately linear experiences where the only way to progress through the game is to get to one, single goal. If anything, alternate paths have never been done any significant justice with the arguable exception of ShtH where they actually complimented the game's theme of relative morality and led to outright different stages and endings instead of just padded the levels with samey-looking paths with ultimately-unnecessary collectables.

Nobody mentioned sandboxes... I still think everyone is using the word "linear" while meaning different things. I want to say Unleashed levels are "linear", but it has nothing to do with alternate paths or multiple goals.

[Nepenthe]

Nobody mentioned sandboxes... I still think everyone is using the word "linear" while meaning different things. I want to say Unleashed levels are "linear", but it has nothing to do with alternate paths or multiple goals.

I realize no one mentioned sandboxes; that was intentional exaggeration on my part to lead into the point that Sonic games as a principle rule lead you from point A to point B whether or not you've got vertical exploration at your disposal.

I won't deny that the Unleashed playstyle in general is naturally linear however, but I disagree with the notion that it's *too* linear as if our metaphorical leashes were ever that long before. I also disagree with the implication that always accompanies the panning of the style's linearity that it cannot possibly be used to any exploratory or meaningful effect, that the only possible way for locations to have any dimension and believability is if we throw in a whole mess of alternate paths that are only going to lead you back to the main path or the stage's single goal in the long run anyways.

[Tornado]

aaaaaannnndddd this is what happens when you throw logic in game with a blue hedgehog running at the speed of ssssoooouuunnndddd. Oh Yeaaahhhh!!!

I'm getting rather annoyed at seeing this thrown out in response to almost everything of late. I'm not coming down and saying I agree with lounge's point of view, but he clearly thought that something didn't make sense with Sonic being able to boost on rails, because Sonic doesn't actually do anything to actually build up his speed. Using "well, logic doesn't apply to this series" as a catch all response is an almost epic missing of the point. It is entirely possible for something to have internal logic that is completely detached from from real world comparisons.

No, it does indeed take skill and reflexes to actually control Sonic properly and make it through the levels in as perfect a manner as possible even if you do have the design memorized.

It does take skill, but it takes skill to do all trial-and-error games. That doesn't mean that your skill is the main contributor towards your success.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Tornado

[Nepenthe]

It does take skill, but it takes skill to do all trial-and-error games. That doesn't mean that your skill is the main contributor towards your success.

I can agree with that, but at the same time, the Unleashed style isn't something a lobotomized lemur can ace either. Saying it's a completely skill-less endeavor is a general peeve of mine. xP

[Tornado]

I certainly wouldn't say it is skill-less, no. Eggmanland is still stupidly hard if you know where everything is. But you do have to know where everything is first.

[Nepenthe]

I certainly wouldn't say it is skill-less, no. Eggmanland is still stupidly hard if you know where everything is. But you do have to know where everything is first.

I wouldn't say you'd have to know where everything is in Eggmanland first in order to manage properly avoiding it. The only thing I can blatantly remember taking me by surprise in that level and thus pissing me off is the first badnik-- You're sent into a spring, and the camera turns in such a way as to suggest you're in an arc an are about to land on a platform. Instead, you hit one of those hovering bots if you don't have the precognition to homing attack it before it comes all the way on screen.

And then there's the QTE's I guess, if those count. Otherwise, the platforming segments and the roller coaster bit actually seem to be the overwhelming majority of the level as far as Daytime Sonic goes, and those don't necessarily rely on precognition as, say, trying to make it through Arid Sand's town square without hitting anything.

But of course, I honestly haven't played Eggmanland since I beat the bastard, so what do I know? xP

[Kuzu]

Just because Unleashed's levels are mostly linear in terms of 3D, doesn't mean it takes no skill to beat, it takes memorization is all, and I know some people will say "You shouldn't have to memorize a level" but yes you do, I've died countless times playing games my first run through, because I wasn't used to it, Trial and error is a key point of video games like it or not. I do wish for more more platforming but if generations follows unleashed's learning curve, I'll hardly complain. Though I do hope Sonic controls better in 3D, as in not slippery as fuck.

[Tornado]

Just because Unleashed's levels are mostly linear in terms of 3D, doesn't mean it takes no skill to beat, it takes memorization is all, and I know some people will say "You shouldn't have to memorize a level" but yes you do,

No you shouldn't.

I've died countless times playing games my first run through, because I wasn't used to it, Trial and error is a key point of video games like it or not.

No its not.

[Kuzu]

No you shouldn't.

Why not? Not everyone is an istant expert to beat a hard level on their first try.

No its not.

Really? Are you telling me games like the original Super Mario Bros. and its sequels along with a lot of other platformers at the time DIDN'T require memorization before conquering?

[Djawed]

Why not? Not everyone is an istant expert to beat a hard level on their first try.

But you should be able to if you are an expert. Sonic unleashed formula will kill the biggest expert with each new hard stage even if he has lots of experience with the formula, whereas good quality well built games don't/shouldn't have that.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Jaouad

[Voyant]

No its not.

What games have you been playing?

Lets pull out the genre pull and give out some examples.

Deadspace: How are you going to know how to kill some monsters correctly and most effective....Trail And error

So if I shoot a monster in the stomach..yet I wasn't given any indication that i I do so I get attacked by even more things and I die...Its the game fault?

Zelda...How are you gonna know which block goes where to activate a switch? Trail and Error.

So if I activate a switch that leads me to fight 3 stalfos and I did a puzzle the wrong way at the start...its the games fault?

Gears of War: How are you gonna be able to know whether you can rush in or have to take cover (There a reason why they make most fps games regenerate health) Tail and Error.

If I run and jump into a swarm of enemies trying to be a badass and I end dieing cause its too much..its the games fault for not initially putting me in a cover position?

All games lead to trail and error, that's how the human mind works, that's how people get addicted to things cause they want to be able to breeze on through it with no issues. If you take out trail and error...you take out the challenge factor and you take out the fun.

Sonic Unleashed: There is a curb on the other side of the building...person gets boost happy...hits the curve and plunges to his death in stead of taking it slow his first time around since its his first time? Games fault cause they put a death pit there and should have warned me NOT to boost even I have NO idea what coming next?

You chose to make that decision in the first place.

If video game makers thought you can breeze easily in every stage without dineg they wouldn't give you lives to reset after you taken a plunge.

You think Unleashed is unfair?

Edited April 27, 2011 by Voyant

[Djawed]

Edited April 27, 2011 by Jaouad

[Tornado]

Why not? Not everyone is an istant expert to beat a hard level on their first try.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Tornado

[Voyant]

But you should be able to if you are an expert. Sonic unleashed formula will kill the biggest expert with each new hard stage even if he has lots of experience with the formula, whereas good quality well built games don't/shouldn't have that.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Voyant

[Kuzu]

But you should be able to if you are an expert. Sonic unleashed formula will kill the biggest expert with each new hard stage even if he has lots of experience with the formula, whereas good quality well built games don't/shouldn't have that.

[Tornado]

So I should be an EXPERT in every new game and not die for making dumb choices???? Oooookkkaaaayyyyyy.....>>

That's not what trial and error gameplay actually is. Trial and error gameplay kills you in game before you know that the choice that you made was a dumb one. Proper game difficulty alludes to what the dumb choice is, and then kills you if you make it anyways.

Note: Sure Zelda games give you hints...but most of the time you wandering around at first trying to understand what the fuck to do until you SEE said hint...or after like...5 minutes Navi does the "HEY LISTEN" and tells you something.

I'm having difficulty understanding why this is supposed to mean that the games don't give you hints. All I see is a complaint about how open-ended adventure games are too open-ended.

Donkey Kong is a slower paced game...sure, but when your in a barrel you don't know wtf is going to happen when you shoot out of any angle. So you try different agnles in hope that the one you choose is the right 1. Essentially getting shot ALL the way back to the beginning is the same as dieing...its not like you die once and you have to start ALL the way from the first level.

The Donkey Kong Country games are also specifically known as being games that are unfair. This was commented on in nearly every DKC:R review when that game turned out to be close to the same way.

Hell you want a hint system...SU gives you LIVES when its gonna get tough...that should already tell you..."Hey might need to chill a bit."

That's not a hint system. That is a developer crutch.

ITs called difficulty dude, do you really want the game to hold your hand for the whole playthrough?

No. I want my skill as a player to make a difference the first time I play the game.

hard stages are supposed to be unfair, they're supposed to piss you off, and I respect Unleashed for it.

Hard stages are supposed to be hard. Unfair stages are not hard. They are cheap.

Its not bad design its called skill.

Wrong on both counts.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Tornado

[Voyant]

You know what just realized...

Difficulty is very subjective...

They should just put a easy mode and a hard mode in sonic games...so that EXPERTS can breeze through easy mode with no problems and feel at ease. While people who want challenge don't mind dieing a few times for making dumb choices can play on normal...or Hard.

That would fix everything right up...yup...

Edited April 27, 2011 by Voyant

[Tornado]

You know what just realized...

Difficulty is very subjective...

They should just put a easy mode and a hard mode in sonic games...so that EXPERTS can breeze through easy mode with no problems and feel at ease. While people who want challenge don't mind dieing a few times for making dumb choices can play on normal...or Hard.

That would fix everything right up...yup...

You know what would be really nice? When taking part in these huge arguments about things like this, that you would attempt to read the posts of those who disagree with you. And especially not lace your responses with smartass remarks when it is clear that you haven't read any other posts in the thread.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Tornado

[Voyant]

You know what would be really nice? When starting these huge arguments about things like this, that you would attempt to read the posts of those who disagree with you. And especially not lace your responses with smartass remarks when it is clear that you haven't read any other posts in the thread.

I am reading them...and I disagree with you...OO. I wouldn't be replying with an argument if I agreed...unless you want me to pick apart everything your saying....nah...

So let me get this clear.

Sonic has a boost function...you can use this whenever you feel like. You just started the 4th Zone and you see a looong stretch with some obstacles. You dodge them going at boost speeds then you turn the corner...and all of a sudden there is an obstacle...no sweat! You jump over it, but instead of coming to the ground and taking a look of what ahead of you air dash cause you feel pretty confident now and you don't want to loose speed.

You Air Dashed into a bottomless pit that was a disappearing and reappearing platform.

Who fault is that? You because you didn't chill out and see what ahead of you and air dashed....or the game because their a platform that pops in and out.

Note: I'm referring a bit to some obstacles in Scrap Brain Zone. (1 of my Fav levels btw)

***

I'ma say that's totally fair on my part. If you disagree with me then we just have total different mindsets about what we think is fair or not...so that means us fighting back and forth is pointless and I'm not going to waste my time. (Sonic 2 is also my favorite Sonic game so that just goes to show you...way different mind sets.)

Edited April 28, 2011 by Voyant