Favorite Sonic Cartoon?

[DaLoLz]

I have a question.

I can remember seeing a Sonic cartoon or something with the Sonic CD version of Amy back loong time ago. Somewhen in the 1990s.

Is there a 5th cartoon I don't know.. Or was this just an Sonic CD advertisement?

[Tornado]

Some people today do tend to criticise SATAM for its slightly darker setting

Edited May 8, 2011 by Tornado

[Kintor]

While aesthetic differences do exist between the Roboticizer and the way Eggman captures animals for his Badniks I think that the similarities are stronger. Now, despite what differences in mannerisms Eggman may have between various media, I think that certain traits will always be true of the character. At his most basic Dr Eggman/Dr Robotnik is a mad scientist who turns organic creatures into robots to aid in his ambition of global conquest. From that basis I think that the rest is really up to the writer. Whether with roboticized Mobians or captured Flickies the end result is identical, Dr Eggman/Dr Robotnik takes intelligent creatures against their will and uses them as raw material for his army of robots – that’s his character. There is no sense in getting caught up in minor details. Both Dr Eggman and Dr Robotnik are interesting villains in their own right; it just goes to show all the possible ways someone could develop this character, given just a few basic ideas lifted from Sonic 1’s admittedly threadbare plot. Different takes on a character between Sonic media help inject a little more creative and originality into this franchise. I see that as a good thing.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Kintor

[Dr. Mechano]

At his most basic Dr Eggman/Dr Robotnik is a mad scientist who turns organic creatures into robots to aid in his ambition of global conquest.

Except game Eggman doesn't do that. He's never turned a single animal into a robot. He's used plenty of them to power his robots, however. But this is quite different from physically transforming organic animals into machines themselves.

From that basis I think that the rest is really up to the writer. Whether with roboticized Mobians or captured Flickies the end result is identical, Dr Eggman/Dr Robotnik takes intelligent creatures against their will and uses them as raw material for his army of robots – that’s his character.

But I feel like there's a rather big difference.

For Dr. Eggman, capturing animals is a means to an end, that end being world domination. He needs robotic soldiers to conquer the world, and the animals provide a convenient power source.

For SatAM Robotnik, roboticization is the end itself. His goal appears to be roboticizing the entire planet. For Sega Eggman, his ideal world seems to have sentient subjects who still have free will, but are heavily governed under his egotistic dictatorship. SatAM Robotnik has no organic subjects- Just mindless automatons slaving away in his dystopian world.

I feel it necessary to say this too- Game Eggman uses normal animals to power his robots, while SatAM Robotnik roboticizes anthropomorphic talking animals. That's a rather stark difference- You won't find Eggman tossing a Sonic-sized animal into a robot, after all. The difference between Sega Eggman and SatAM Robotnik is one between animal cruelty and actual human enslavement (I use the word human to describe the anthropomorphic animals because they're functionally on the same level as humans). Yes, what Sega Eggman does to the animals is pretty twisted, but he doesn't do this to humans or anthropomorphic animals- Only to the common, non-sapient ones. I'm not dismissing mistreatment of animals as a minor thing, but I do feel it's certainly far less depraved than the stuff Julian does to intelligent lifeforms of human-level intelligence.

[SpeedKeed]

My favorites are AOSTH and Sonic X. Not really big on SATAM and Sonic Underground, but they're good too.

[Tornado]

While aesthetic differences do exist between the Roboticizer and the way Eggman captures animals for his Badniks I think that the similarities are stronger.

They aren't aesthetic differences. They are inherent conceptual differences that make the two concepts almost completely detached from each other, both in how they are applied and in how they are actually treated in story by their respective mediums.

One of them is permanent subjugation mostly done just for the sake of getting rid of the character in question, explicitly and repeatedly treated in the show as a fate worse then death to the extent that the mere word bothers some of the characters when uttered.

The other one is basically using animals as a 9-volt battery to power robots, and is always treated as nothing more than an annoyance for the main characters to deal with.

Whether with roboticized Mobians or captured Flickies the end result is identical, Dr Eggman/Dr Robotnik takes intelligent creatures against their will and uses them as raw material for his army of robots – that’s his character. There is no sense in getting caught up in minor details.

There has never been a game that treated Eggman's actions the way SatAM treated Robotnik's, and there was never an episode of SatAM that treated Robotnik's actions like the games treated Eggman's. Its not an issue of minor details being different. It is an issue of virtually everything except the base ideas (Robot Army with animals involved) being completely different in execution, completely different as a plot device and completely different as a character motivator.

I should also add on to what Dr. Mechano said and say that SatAM Robotnik did not roboticize as a means to build up his robot army. He roboticized purely as a means to terrorize the populace that was resisting his rule into submitting to him. Not only was it not a means to an end like Dr. Mechano explained it was for game Eggman, but the intended result wasn't even the same thing.

What you are basically saying is that, other than being completely different in almost every practical way, they are the same thing because the initial concept is similar. You might as well be saying that shooting a guy and taking his stuff is the same thing as buying the stuff from the guy, with the explanation that in both scenarios you get his stuff.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Tornado

[Kintor]

Well, given that we are talking about a fictional character(s?) here, the primary antagonist from a children’s cartoon and video game no less, I think that both over an equally simplistic -black and white- idea of what evil is. Suffice say, you are not supposed to defend the villain’s action; not in a children’s story like Sonic the Hedgehog usually stars in anyway. Both versions of Eggman/Robotnik are equally callous in the way they treat others to further their ends. I’ll admit SATAM Robotnik makes things fairly obvious; all the terrified screaming involved with the roboticization process gets the message across fairly well. However, as Sonic Colours has shown, Dr Eggman has no interest in the free will of others; his latest plan hinged on a giant cannon that (if it didn’t suffer from mechanical failures) could have enslaved every mind on the plant down below; Tail’s certainly didn’t look like he had much of a choice when he attacked Sonic earlier that day. Both turning people into robots and using a mind-control weapon have precisely the same result – a total loss of free will. An evil end regardless of how the villain schemed to achieve that goal. Both Dr Eggman and Dr Robotnik serve the same purpose, by virtue of their evil actions and the fact that they always lose, children gain a simple -good vs. evil- understanding of what not to do with their lives. Moral ambiguity has nothing to do with it.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Kintor

[Flyboy Fox]

I feel it necessary to say this too- Game Eggman uses normal animals to power his robots, while SatAM Robotnik roboticizes anthropomorphic talking animals. That's a rather stark difference- You won't find Eggman tossing a Sonic-sized animal into a robot, after all. The difference between Sega Eggman and SatAM Robotnik is one between animal cruelty and actual human enslavement (I use the word human to describe the anthropomorphic animals because they're functionally on the same level as humans). Yes, what Sega Eggman does to the animals is pretty twisted, but he doesn't do this to humans or anthropomorphic animals- Only to the common, non-sapient ones. I'm not dismissing mistreatment of animals as a minor thing, but I do feel it's certainly far less depraved than the stuff Julian does to intelligent lifeforms of human-level intelligence.

What about the wisps in Colours, Mechano? Tails was able to translate their language into actual speech, so surely they count as sentient/intelligent? Yet he drained them of their life energy and left them in a zombified 'dead' state which was really quite horrible.

(By the way, whoever neg-repped Mechano on his last post - is it really necessary to use neg-rep on a perfectly polite and well-written response just because you disagree with it?)

[Kamicciolo]

While still quite horrible, it was still treated, as Mechano has pointed out, a means to an end. Eggman was only really draining them of their energy for his weapon, so them turning into Nega Wisps is simply a byproduct of that.

Though I will admit there is a suggestion in certain deleted lines that the Nega Wisps were intentional, but I don't know how much we can take that as fact.

[Flyboy Fox]

I agree that the motive is different, I wasn't addressing that issue. I even agree that SatAM Robotnik was far crueller than SEGA Eggman, however I was responding specifically to this (which isn't about motive, but rather about who ends up hurt). Emphasis mine:

"The difference between Sega Eggman and SatAM Robotnik is one between animal cruelty and actual human enslavement (I use the word human to describe the anthropomorphic animals because they're functionally on the same level as humans). Yes, what Sega Eggman does to the animals is pretty twisted, but he doesn't do this to humans or anthropomorphic animals- Only to the common, non-sapient ones. I'm not dismissing mistreatment of animals as a minor thing, but I do feel it's certainly far less depraved than the stuff Julian does to intelligent lifeforms of human-level intelligence."

The wisps - clearly intelligent and sentient beings - were most definitely enslaved and treated cruelly, whereas Mechano seemed to be suggesting that SEGA Eggman only uses/mistreats non-sentient creatures.

[Kamicciolo]

Ah, didn't realise that was what ya meant, sorry for the mistake . And you do have a point, however it may also be worthwhile to consider how Eggman himself would view the Wisps, since he could very easily have not been aware they were sentient or even simply have decided that they were comparable to the usual small animals he typically uses. Afterall, its only really clear to us (through Sonic and Tails) that the Wisps are intelligent, with no hint from Eggman's side of things. The line for this also gets blurred even more depending on how you view the small animals from the early games.

Though I do also feel its worthwhile to point out that Sonic Advance 2 suggested Eggman was gonna use Tails and Knuckles to power Badniks (since the manual says he kidnapped them while pulling the usual Badniks stunt and all), and even has actually used Humans in the Sonic X Comic. So he's not exactly above using such things either way.

[Flyboy Fox]

And he did try to brain-control Tails into attacking Sonic, whilst drawing extreme glee from the fact that he knew full-well that Tails is Sonic's best friend and Sonic would be loathe to hurt him. But I can see that it's not the same as using any old random civilian that way, given that Sonic and Tails are specifically out to stop him and there is personal animosity involved.

I do wonder exactly what would have happened if he'd been able to brainwash the whole world, though, and where that would factor into the cruelty/enslavement to sentient beings argument.

[Kamicciolo]

While I can't say much on the cruelty aspect, it would undenibly be total enslavement. From what we saw of the it's effect on Tails, they'd pretty much be left as mindless drones that would be subject to his each and every whim. Just imagine if the effects of that thing were irreversible after having been used on someone...

In terms of Game Eggman's character that would either be treated as simply an escalation of his previous actions in the whole "Animals as Badniks" matter, or could actually be seen as him stepping over a line he'd never really crossed before.

[Flyboy Fox]

That's what I'm asking, really. Would it be stepping over an until-then uncrossed barrier, as far as Eggman morality goes? I'd like to particularly know how Mechano feels about 1) using the Wisps and 2) the brainwashing of every human on the planet, in terms of his interpretation of SEGA Eggman's ethics, because I do enjoy his insight.

[Vertekins]

Game Eggman's no angel when it comes to his actions towards sentient creatures, human, wisp or otherwise.

If I recall correctly, Eggman was out there picking-up kidnapping innocent sentient bipedal anthropes in SADV2 in order to use them in a new batch of powerful robots. Even going so far as to pick up a cute little 6 year old rabbit girl and her Chao as potential cores for these new robots. The game is ambiguous regarding what he did/was planning to do with Vanilla but his plot clearly suggested that he wasn't above enslaving Sonic's kind in robots.

There's also the thing concerning Chronicles. How he expresses disappointment at the fact that his and Tails' invention to get rid of the Marauders on Angel Island wouldn't cause them pain or suffering. Shows he's a touch sadistic towards sentient bipedal anthropes.

[Flyboy Fox]

A lot of people don't take Chronicles as canon, but I'd like to think that it could be because I find it interesting how things might have changed over just the course of a year or so from the canon-now. Eggman certainly shows a streak of sadism in that remark of his... although it could also be argued that Sonic and co have become a little jaded too, as they seem to be unexpectedly celebratory over the idea of Eggman being dead, rather than sad they couldn't have won more peacefully. So, I dunno... if Chronicles is canon, I'd say that it shows a bit of a dark, or at least more jaded, side to all of the characters.

As far as the thing with Cream and Vanilla is concerned; I'd forgotten about that. I think SEGA Eggman would use regular critters more than sentient beings when he can, possibly just because it's less fuss, but it seems he's not morally above the idea of using 'people'. He just doesn't seem to get a kick out of it in quite the same way that SatAM Buttnik does - as others have said, a means to an end rather than simply for the evil of the act itself.

[Luke.]

From 1st to last

Number 1: AOSTH (Adventures of sonic the hedgehog)

whats to say its funny and ied have to say random but in a very fantastic way

scratch and grounder there epic lol as a child when young there traps were probs the most epic FAILS EVER!

But yeah growing up as a child with this cartoon its my number 1!

Number 2: SatAm

it had a nice story to it but there was only 26 episodes i wish there where more

should have been a episode 27 as snively said in episode 26th its his turn now

wanted to have seen how well snively would have done

Number 3: Sonic x

Personly i liked sonic x it wasnt fantastic but i liked it

the eggman parts were there best parts

sonic x probrally had the best storyline

Last but not least sonic underground :

oh my dayz what do i have to say

the music was very annyoing and i mean ANNYOING

i hate both characters manic and sonia (Sonia relly surely you can think of a better name oh look what i did i removed a c and put a a oh clever)

singing was also annyoing

and also it made no sence

[Dr. Mechano]

That's what I'm asking, really. Would it be stepping over an until-then uncrossed barrier, as far as Eggman morality goes? I'd like to particularly know how Mechano feels about 1) using the Wisps and 2) the brainwashing of every human on the planet, in terms of his interpretation of SEGA Eggman's ethics, because I do enjoy his insight.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[azoo]

The OVA trumps all. It's got to be my favorite of the entire bunch of the cartoons for it's awesome animation, it's well-balanced story, how all the characters had very likeable traits, and that it expanded on the environment and world around Sonic. Planet Freedom is probably the coolest version of Sonic's world there is, and I wish they could've kept going in that direction with the basic Segasonic canon; especially since Yuji Naka and Naoto Oshima sort of watched over development of it and all. It was a fun movie with a great atmosphere to it and amazing characters; and I kind of sulk every now and then about how they never continued this in form of a TV show, or even in the Adventure-onward canon.

Next off I'd like to culminate all the Sonic shorts into one clump. The Sonic CD opening / ending, Man of the Year, the shorts found in Unleashed, and Night of the Werehog. All featuring silent Sonic with vivid expressions, tons of cartoony movement and action-y scenes. Probably some of the most charming Sonic media there is. Now if only they could do stuff like this more often... Maybe they will continue to use this style for classic Sonic in Generations.

AoSTH is definitely my favorite of the western Sonic cartoons though, I'll say that. I grew up on this show, watching it on Toon Disney every night, so that's alot of good memories and nostalgia there. Plus, you have to loooove Rrrobotnik and his metallic morons lackeys Scratch and Grounder (and Coconuts). I agree with anyone who says there hasn't been any lackeys since that are good as these three. Sonic and Tails were also adorable as best buds here, the show was outright funny (sometimes unintentionally due to the occasionally horrible art), and it had a charm to it that I don't ever see in any other TV shows. Plus, this show got me to love chili dogs, how could I thank it enough?!

Since Tornado is a man of great truths and pretty much stole the words from my mouth regarding these three, I'm just gonna quote him on SatAM, Sonic X, and Underground!

SatAM: This has aged painfully. As Dr. Mechano said, it seems so much like they took another show, bought the Sonic licence and turned all of the characters into Sonic equivalents. Without changing anything else.

It almost runs off of a checklist for "generic 90's darkness/edginess," and the writing isn't anywhere near solid enough to carry it without making it look pretentious. Tails is in the show for what looks like pure marketing reasons. Sally eventually became a tumour that infected every episode she was in, to the point of filling in for characters who were far better suited for the tasks. Sonic flip-flopped between "complete asshole" and "plucky smartass" without rhyme or reason. Robotnik as a character was almost exactly like Claw from Inspector Gadget with how one-dimensionally comic-book evil he was, frequently being a bad guy purely for the sake of being a bad guy (and not even with the justification that doing bad things amused him, but just because) in such a way that it isn't surprising that villains like him are really only parodied these days.

Many dramatic moments in the show are telegraphed half an episode before they happen, especially stuff like the occasional heroic sacrifice. And the general setting and themes are so heavy handed that it rivals Captain Planet in subtlety. This is just Season 1, mind you. Season 2 did not do the show any favors.

In other words, while it may have been a fantastic show for its time (though, compared to fare like Batman: TAS or Gargoyles, I can't say I would agree with that), almost nothing about it holds up today. Also not helping is that the "serious" Archie issues Sean mentioned above handled almost everything SatAM ever tried to do far better than SatAM ever did.

Sonic X: Oh boy. You want a crappy show? I'll give you a crappy show. Here's the formula:

Take the Sonic series. Bleed everything out of it but the shonen elements the series has picked up since Sonic Adventure. Now take story arcs and elements that are already in place with 'tweens in mind, and rewrite them for a lowest common denominator audience of 10 year olds. Throw in a poorly-written self-insert character to randomly take up screen time from other, better-written characters, purely as a cynical way to "connect" with the kids for a franchise that has already been connecting with kids since 1991. Then make him a rich kid who spends most of his time being a spoiled prick so he fails even in that regard.

Now make it so the plots generally start, and therefore revolve around, the self-insert character; but don't do anything to compensate for the characters that originally drove the plot. When you do show the tertiary characters the show should theoretically be about, make sure to focus on and greatly exaggerate one or two of their secondary traits, but (and this is an important step) nothing else. Make heavy handed morals and lessons to be learned, and then make it so the person trying to teach them is ostracized for being an idiot when they are clearly the only one who hasn't gone through a lobotomy. Finally, make sure all of the plot conflicts revolve around one or more of the main characters being colossal morons. Now you are almost done! All you have to do is pepper the script with completely inappropriate and painfully unfunny 4th-wall breaks (in the original Japanese) or puns (in the dub), and you are ready to start handing scripts out.

Now let's animate! First, make sure you have a budget similar to that of a college kid's flash movie. Now spend all of that on the first episode. For the rest of the show, farm the episodes out to Korean animation sweatshops. When people have grown accustomed to how poorly drawn your show is, change it up! Make characters look like they were drawn by a different studio for each individual scene! When people get use to that, farm the work out to people who suffer from epilepsy, and make them draw your episodes under strobe lights. When you run out of money for even that, give the drawing duties to burn victims or some other similar group. The end result needs to be that over the course of an episode, it looks like several dozen characters named Sonic, several dozen characters name Tails and several dozen characters named Knuckles (though in reality, just Chris) have all had a small part in a successive course of events of the plot.

Super Bonus Ranking - Sonic Underground: I haven't seen an episode of Sonic Underground since 2001. I have no opinions on it, other than stating how incredibly ballsy it was to try to do a SatAM style plot after Sonic Adventure came out.

[Kamicciolo]

As for Advance 2, was it stated anywhere that he intended to use Cream in a robot? I know he kidnapped her, but I didn't think his intentions were explicitly stated anywhere.

[Barry the Nomad]

Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, baby!

For many reasons:

• I witnessed the premiere of the series, I remember watching it on our old black and white in the kitchen while having breakfast. I believe the episode was "Best Hedgehog", I remember being very confused as it technically is the 13th episode but aired first. Still, it was awesome to see it for the first time (literally).

• Milton Knight, designer of AoStH Robotnik, is such a great guy. His animation is fantastic, his Robotnik is legendary, and he's always up for a little e-mail correspondence and will do Robotnik paintings for fans.

• The Time Travel arc is the best multi-episode Sonic story of all time. OF ALL TIME.

• While not exactly like the games, there are a number of similar elements: Sonic & Tails always on the move, Robotnik and his badniks out to get them, various zones appear (Starlight, Labyrinth, Casino Night, Pinball Fortress)

• It features the original video game theme song.

• "In the Hall of the Mountain King" is used well.

• Robotnik has a catchy theme (I hum it when I see very fat people. I can't help it!)

• Scratch and Grounder are very funny, even when re-watching the episodes now.

• Who can forget pingas?

[DaddlerTheDalek]

My Favourite Sonic Shows are SatAM & AOSTH!

[Mangoaxe5]

I tried rewatching Sonic X on Youtube to see if my opinions towards the show changed any. And I have to say that I still can't stand it.

Why is Sonic boring?

Some episodes show him just napping away.

Where is Tails personality? Again he's just a fixer-sue.

What happen to the rest of Knuckles personality?

There's more to Knuckles character then just being gullible and getting mad alot.

Amy is way too hammer happy.

Does anyone even remember the personality that Amy had in Sonic Adventure 1&2? You know back when she was a kind little girl who was able to see the good in others.

And don't get me started on Chris and Robotnik.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I tried rewatching Sonic X on Youtube to see if my opinions towards the show changed any. And I have to say that I still can't stand it.

Why is Sonic boring?

Some episodes show him just napping away.

Where is Tails personality? Again he's just a fixer-sue.

What happen to the rest of Knuckles personality?

There's more to Knuckles character then just being gullible and getting mad alot.

Amy is way too hammer happy.

Does anyone even remember the personality that Amy had in Sonic Adventure 1&2? You know back when she was a kind little girl who was able to see the good in others.

And don't get me started on Chris and Robotnik.

I know what you mean!

[Anarnee]

The one I remember the most out of the older ones is Underground. I'm fond of it, though I know its not that great... AoStH and Satam.... I don't remember Satam at all, and I know I watched AoStH and I loved it, but I can't remember anything about it that stood out.

Sonic X is my favorite though... I didn't like Chris, and I didn't like... frick... whats her name? That Alien chick? but I enjoyed the story still. There were bright pieces hidden in the show...

I enjoyed the old OVA with Metal Sonic too.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Anarnee