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Nepenthe

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Despite my better judgement, I hope this doesn't become or come across as inflammatory, but coming from a mostly neutral perspective to all of the following examples, I find this trend as fascinating as I do eye-brow raising. I guess the primary question is, why does the general consensus, whether good or bad, for certain items in the Sonic franchise not only about-face completely but do so so suddenly without any noticeable or even sensible evolution in thought? Also, do you attribute these changes to overcoming ignorance, (i.e. it was always/never good), changing times and standards, some level of hypocrisy and hyperbole, or a combination thereof?

Big the Cat's newfound fanbase is an example of what I'm talking about. His lack of intelligence has been reframed into "simplicity" and his actual strengths are now being aggressively highlighted to show his worth as a character. I'm not sure how tongue-in-cheek the whole thing is, especially in light of All-Stars Racing, but regardless, deriding Big for being stupid nowadays seems to earn you ire.

Dimps is another. As I've discussed in the Status field, it's suprising that people would rather Sonic Team develop the games than Dimps. This surprise comes from a combination of what I witnessed from the Rush series' reception, the recent attacks on Iizuka and his character, the long-standing loathing of Sonic Team design hallmarks, and the continued relevance of Sonic 06 on the franchise's reputation. Was Sonic 4 really so bad as to effectively undo Sonic 06, or was Colors so good as to make the Rush series irrelevant?

I could probably go in-depth on other examples: The big three voice actors, (White, Drummond, Griffith), Sonic R's quality and soundtrack, Sonic Shuffle's quality, both Daytime and Nighttime gameplay, hub worlds, humans, the modern character designs, and even classic gameplay ideals to an extent, but regardless I don't think I'm the only one in this fanbase who, regardless of their opinions, has been caught off guard to find out that the status quo of something isn't the status quo anymore, and that you were out of the loop when the shift happened. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing; I find it good and even refreshing to be able to question traditional thought. But when it's difficult to track the history of the transition from one field of thought to another, when it feels like you've just woken up one day and everyone is suddenly in agreement on the position that, maybe a year or even a few months ago, was universally loathed, I sometimes want to ask, "Why, when, and how did this happen?"

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The fanbase seems to be made up of lost sheep who take it in turns to be the shepard.

2005- Rush is the best thing ever. 2010- Rush is shit and S4 is just Rush 3.

2007- Secret Rings is fantastic. 2008/9- Secret Rings is one of the worst Sonic games ever.

2008- The radio effect while boosting Unleashed is awesome. 2011- Ruined forever.

Advance Years: Dimps are the only ones keeping Sonic alive. 2010/11- GET THEM AWAY FROM MY HEDGEHOG

Yes, I fully understand what you're saying and it totally annoys me too. Some of it really is overcoming ignorance, like with SatSR and the ridiculous controls that you have upgrade, other times it's just whatever is cool. Specifically, a lot of people were actually happy when they found out that Dimps were developing S4.

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The fanbase seems to be made up of lost sheep who take it in turns to be the shepard.

2005- Rush is the best thing ever. 2010- Rush is shit and S4 is just Rush 3.

2007- Secret Rings is fantastic. 2008/9- Secret Rings is one of the worst Sonic games ever.

2008- The radio effect while boosting Unleashed is awesome. 2011- Ruined forever.

Advance Years: Dimps are the only ones keeping Sonic alive. 2010/11- GET THEM AWAY FROM MY HEDGEHOG

Yes, I fully understand what you're saying and it totally annoys me too. Some of it really is overcoming ignorance, like with SatSR and the ridiculous controls that you have upgrade, other times it's just whatever is cool. Specifically, a lot of people were actually happy when they found out that Dimps were developing S4.

I don't specifically remember happiness when it was confirmed Dimps was on Sonic 4. If nothing else, I thought when the second teaser come out and Retro picked apart the trailer to deduce/guess it was using the Rush Engine, it led to backlash because it was essentially confirmation that the classic physics wouldn't be returning. That, along with stronger opposition to the daytime gameplay and Rush's influence on it, seems to have sealed Dimps' fate as a incompetant developer.

But in general, it's mostly annoying to me because I can't remember any proper transition or debate going on about the subjects in question, thus past and present consenses appear to be so amazingly polarized in such a short amount of time that it's almost unbelievable. For example, when it was confirmed that Jaleel White was on board the Sonic fan film, I thought, "Oh, this is celebratory news? I thought most people hated that guy's voice.... Huh, well okay then!" Maybe we learned something from Griffith's dismissal? Who knows?

In fact, the only two examples I can think of right now where this isn't the case is Sonic Team's capabilities, somehow, and Shadow's worth as a character. You can clearly see when, where, and why they not only began to fall out of favor but slowly regain some semblance of trust again.

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2005- Rush is the best thing ever. 2010- Rush is shit and S4 is just Rush 3.

I maintain now, and have always maintained that the only redeeming factor about Rush was the music of the first game. You can quote me on that one.

2007- Secret Rings is fantastic. 2008/9- Secret Rings is one of the worst Sonic games ever.

Clearly here, it looked good next to Sonic 06. I think the fact that I quit that game after the 3rd zone says it all for me. Unlocking good controls? BULL.

2008- The radio effect while boosting Unleashed is awesome. 2011- Ruined forever.

I don't know what the frag happened here. I guess they people were right when they said Sonic fans will never be happy.

Advance Years: Dimps are the only ones keeping Sonic alive. 2010/11- GET THEM AWAY FROM MY HEDGEHOG

I think the key thing here, is that not only did the Advance games get progressively worse, but then Rush was a complete and total diversion from anything they had ever done before. Though looking at it with new jargon, they progressively went from the classic style to the modern one.

If I were to hazard a guess, the fanbase might be going through the phase where they love their new toys, but years later see that they weren't so hot after all.

If I EVER show signs of getting tired of a useable Super Sonic, shot me with every weapon you've got, revive the corpse and do it again 3 times

Edited by Aquaslash

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The deal with Big is mostly a joke, I think; most people who say they like him do like him to some extent, but it's also fun to make the fat retarded cat out to be a badass. In general, though, I don't think there's any clear reason you can pin down. People's opinions change for all sorts of reasons. Some people leave the community and some people join it. And I figure sometimes "unpopular" opinions end up snowballing into popularity once someone has the balls to say it.

Advance Years: Dimps are the only ones keeping Sonic alive. 2010/11- GET THEM AWAY FROM MY HEDGEHOG
Well this one actually has some legitimate outside reasons for it; the shift to the boost-heavy Rush gameplay which has become the Dimps handheld Sonic standard and their poor work on Unleashed Wii and Sonic 4 could believably turn a former supporter off of Dimps' work.

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I'm with you Nepenthe, I still enjoy Dimps games as I have since they started making them. I still consider SatSR a good game as I did back then.

In fact, I can't think of a single opinion regarding Sonic that I have changed radically at all.

Edit:

I always liked Big. I think he's a very fun character.

Edited by Tobbii

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I suppose my inhibition to accept Dimps' current status as fully genuine is because their catalog runs concurrent with the absolute worst of Sonic Team's efforts which in turn is some of the absolute worst the entire series has to offer. I can easily fathom Dimps suffering a decline, but I become incredulous when the outright hate is played up against the numerous Sonic 06 box art posts that are made whenever someone suggests a new game using Adventure elements or even the tooth-and-nail fights that constantly emerge over the quality and adaptability of Unleashed style which Dimps had a hand in shaping.

(Note: I've not played any of the Rush or Advance games for long thus I'm not qualified to say anything extensive about them. My conversation about Dimps is what I've merely derived from online outlets. =P)

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It's the same kind of thing with the secondary characters at the time too. A lot of people thought that there were too many characters but fast forward to today and everyone wants Knuckles, Amy and the like back because we haven't seen them in ages.

I think Sonic Rush was good for at it's time, especially the state that the series was in at this point. Same goes for Secret Rings, and now that we have Sonic Unleashed, Colours and Generations, people are comparing the newer games to the older ones and forgetting how much more accepting we were of the games at that time. Personally I thought that Sonic Rush and Secret Rings were okay but over time I just got bored of them I guess (I did hate Secret Rings' controls though). I liked Sonic 4 quite a bit though, a lot more than the Rush games.

Edited by Cerulean_Sky

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I have a theory on this. I call it the theory of 'The Garden Moan of the Apocalypse'

It goes as follows and I'll cite a very recent example to back it up.

Sonic 4 is finally released and people download it.

Initial reaction is positive, most reviews are decent, except for one or two. A couple of people really dislike it.

The people who like it usually just sit there and play it.

The people who dislike it start making youtube videos explaining why it's crap and forum signature banners explaining why it's crap.

People who enjoy it see the 'hysterical counter mob' and question why.

Hysterical counter mob explain why it's not 'as good as' or why it's 'wrong.'

Eventually hysterical counter mob includes someone who has the ability to update main pages of big websites.

Thuss the impression is complete, the said game was always crap from the start. Despite initially people liking it.

Just look at the bulk of the replies from every preview event, even Summer of Sonic, people liked it. When it first came out, on here you couldn't move for people praising the game, that they were enjoying it. But for some reason, after a while, people starting making videos and arguments as to why it was crap, then they had the official feedback session, no disrespect to the guys who went because if they don't like the game then they don't like it, but was I the only one who wondered 'why have they invited two people who have been against the game since it was announced?'

I think that for those who enjoy the game just can't be bothered to argue back and forth, so they either continue to enjoy the game or move on and start playing something else. Not sure about everybody else, but after I beat Sonic 4 I more or less stopped going into that forum because I couldn't stand reading the latest issue of the daily bollocks "News just in, you can make Sonic stand on a wall if you slowly move bacwards and hold down on the right analogue!" Right... how many people actually play a Sonic game like that? Meanwhile over at Fallout New Vegas, I attempted to jump over a hedge and got stuck in a constant falling annimation which ment I had to reset the console.

-----

Another example is Sonic Heroes. Sonic Heroes is the interesting example as it came out just prior to 'everyone' having the internet. So most influence people had from it were from magazines, and again, not bad scores, not amazing, but certainly not bad.

I remember my main complaint from it was the voice acting/dialogue, specifically Tails and Charmy. But when I first started to look at Sonic forums, I was shocked at how much people hated the game. Almost everything about it was hated, I didn't join this forum early enough to try and figure out what caused it. But I remember Sonic Heroes at one point being as unpopular as Sonic 06 was, if not more so. But I couldn't figure out why. It just seemed like everywhere you went people hated it and were slating the game for no other reason than, 'well... because.'

Remember when Black Knight was announced? All what we had as a cover scan of Nintendo Power, yet we had TSS front page articles telling us that the game would be dreadful before we saw even a screenshot, let alone a video.... something is wrong when we start doing that, even if the game was a bit ribbish. If we're starting the global concept that 'this game is shit!' before we even see anything of it, something is very wrong.

Again, Sonic 4 fell into this one, we had people saying the game was crap because of how Sonic looked when he built up speed in the initial announcement trailer... what?

And we do the exact opposite too, with Colours, all we got was a CG teaser with no gameplay, but that was enough to set us all down one mindset.

----

Another example I could give here is Sonic and the Secret Rings, at one time this game could do no wrong, it was almost an unwritten rule that 'you are not allowed to make even one hint of a negative point to this game.' Wii owners were constantly raving about it, yet when those of us who picked up 360's and PS3's decided to treat ourselves to a Wii and this game, what the hell happened? Yeah the game was ok, but not exactly this marvellous masterpiece that we had rammed down our throats for the first 5 months of it's release.

It was almost like there was a huge mob yelling OH YEAH! WELL WE DON'T NEED UNCHARTED!FALL OF MAN! HALO! GEARS! WE'VE GOT THIS AND YOU WILL ENJOY IT! Fuck me! This must be good if people are comparing it to that! But no way was this game as great as people originally made it out to be. This next line might not be so popular with some people, but I have always had the belief that at the time, the only reason people constantly went on about how good secret rings was, is that they were Wii only owners. That it was some kind of 'why our console is better.' Because ever since then, most times whenever someone says "What about a port to the other consoles, the level of resistance to that idea gets less and less with every year."

------

The voice actor debate however is a different story altogether. From what I remember, when Jason replaced Ryan, it was kinda divided like this.

15% of the fanbase wanted Ryan, 15% wanted Jason. 70% were too busy wondering what the other 30% were moaning about.

Now part of the backlash for Jason was that he had Sonic X behind him, a lot of people had the mindset "Well Sonic X wasn't very good so...." instead of actually waiting for Jasons first voice acting debut, oddly the first time we heard him was in the Sonic Riders trailer wasn't it? And he didn't sound too bad. But for years people put him through hell for no reason other than he worked for 4kids and he had the Sonic X baggage on his CV. That wasn't fiar, nobody was complaining about his voice in any serious degree other than 'like, because...'

You want an example of that? Well, who remembers those posters people were putting on website stelling people not to buy Sonic 06, not because of what the game was like... but because Jason was leed VA. Thats wrong, no matter how hard you try and spin the justification, to say the game is rubbish and you shouldn't buy it for a voice actor is completely wrong.

I think for the whole Ryan/Jason issue was purely because some people hated Sonic X and thought that because the Sonic X VAs were getting the job, it would mean the games would instantly be shit.

A rather grand illustration to this theory is Sonic Colours and Roger 'Consoles' Craig Smith.

Who here remembers... when this was Sonics new voice. (Skip to 1:30)

I seem to recall how horrified people were, even though both T-bird and myself (you know, people who had actualy stayed at that room) said the voice was not as bad as our low quality cameras made it out to be, and that the voice was unlikely to be the final version used in Sonic Colours.

I remember also there was only ever 1 person who hated the idea of RCS as the new voice of Sonic. But I can't help but feel that one reason why people accepted him quicker than they did with Jason, was that he had no baggage and we had already decided that Colours was a good game.

In conclusion (lolz, conclusion) I don't believe that many fan reactions to games do represent true feelings for a title, once Sonic 4 is released in all it's episodes and the backlash has died down, I suspect that it will have a lot more vocal fans than it currently has. I also expect that eventually a lot of games/things that we like/dislike slowly change as the initial hype dies away and people feel more open to say what they truely feel.

Edit: look if you're going to rate this down, at least have the gaul to quote what I've said and say why.

Edited by Hogfather

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2005- Rush is the best thing ever. 2010- Rush is shit and S4 is just Rush 3.

I maintain now, and have always maintained that the only redeeming factor about Rush was the music of the first game. You can quote me on that one.

Fair do's, I know know some people have always dislike X and Y. But still, the general shift in attitude is annoying. I don't think that the Rush games are as good as I used to, but they're still good games.

2007- Secret Rings is fantastic. 2008/9- Secret Rings is one of the worst Sonic games ever.

Clearly here, it looked good next to Sonic 06. I think the fact that I quit that game after the 3rd zone says it all for me. Unlocking good controls? BULL.

Yea, this is one of those "overcoming ignorance things". It's a shame the Black Knight solved all the problems of SatSR then introduced a bunch of others.

2008- The radio effect while boosting Unleashed is awesome. 2011- Ruined forever.

I don't know what the frag happened here. I guess they people were right when they said Sonic fans will never be happy.

Yup. Can't be happy unless there's something to moan about.

Advance Years: Dimps are the only ones keeping Sonic alive. 2010/11- GET THEM AWAY FROM MY HEDGEHOG

I think the key thing here, is that not only did the Advance games get progressively worse, but then Rush was a complete and total diversion from anything they had ever done before. Though looking at it with new jargon, they progressively went from the classic style to the modern one.

I always thought Rush was an expansion of the SPEED SPEED SPEED gameplay in Advance 2 that people loved a few years ago (and then loathed, and not aren't sure about). But yeah, I'm a little torn after the quality has notably dipped game upon game.

Edited by Blue Blood

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For me, with Dimps, it's like this:

Sonic Advance was fun.

Sonic Advance 2 was fun.

Sonic Advance 3 was fucking horrible.

Sonic Rush was great.

Sonic Rush Adventure was great.

Sonic Colors DS was mediocre.

That leaves Sonic 4 which is also mediocre.

It's really their later stuff that's been pretty bad.

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See, I just stick to my opinions, personally. When the VA switch came around, I was unhappy because I didn't like the Sonic X voices in general, nor did I care for the flanderization of Vector's character that's remained since every post-Heroes game. I've also been a fan of White since the beginning, and I loved Roger's Sonic voice the moment I heard it in Colors. To be fair, I never cared for Drummond, either.

Classic design? I've always preferred it. When I was in gradeschool and the design switch happened, I was furious. So furious that I refused to acknowledge it as Sonic for a long time and even poked fun at it. I still adamantly prefer the retro look, but realize it probably won't become the mainstream look. I still wish they'd shorten his quills, though.

Unleashed? I didn't play enough of it to form an opinion, but I did like what I played, and I enjoyed Colors.

Sonic Rush was fun, but I prefer platforming in Sonic over a speed based experience, especially in 2D.

Never played Secret Rings, but I don't like on rail gameplay. Also, the point about it being compared to 06 is a sound one.

This is just my personal stance on the issue, but I definitely see how the fanbase keeps flip-flopping around. What next? Colors sucks? Bring back Sonic 06 formula? It's crazy, though I blame the vocal minority and the theory of conformity.

EDIT: Also, regarding Sonic 4...

SEGA promised a retro experience initially. What we got was basically Sonic Rush with retro graphics on a home console. I can see why so many people were adamant against it because it wasn't a worthy successor to Sonic 3.

And if you're gonna call it Sonic 4, people expect big things.

Edited by Mega

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Basically for me it's simply

good things are good,

bad things are bad

I don't think you would see me have a hard time accepting "evolution" if they actually did it well from the start. Evolution is normal and it's what the series needs. From a more retro fan perspective I would never want the classic gameplay to stay the same and will always be open to inovation etc.

Now moving on to the things you pointed out. I think this is simply a case of having a different stance on the franchise. I don't wanna be rude or anything, but the things you've listed are just not loved with the greater audience. They're either being found So so or loathed.

I think the greatest impact came from the franchise's bad perception itself. Sonic was going from an iconic character to a laughing stock. While you and many others may have still liked and supported it, the franchise's reputation was just dying with each new game. Sonic might have been gaining followers from the younger folks(i mean of course, they're kids), but losing alot from the more serious adult croud. The critical fanbase but also everywhere. This didn't come from because they didn't except evolution. That's just an ignorant way of seeing things if you ask me. How about they just weren't apealing to the general audience and for some (like me) even kinda shit. The potential audiences (for alot more sales from a business perspective) were note getting pulled into the franchise.

SEGA has obviously taken notice of this. THey have brand new community managers that gather opinions around the net. They had to make this step as they had to begin and take the franchise more seriously. No more bad scores. No more laughing stock. The franchise should be generally loved again by everyone and i'm sure they love the franchise just as much as us here. I particularly respect Rubyeclipe the most in what he has done. I admire his effort so much and consider him as a gift.

Now we're in a fase where everything is changing. It's only natural that a "fanbase" will defend what they stand for, but the same thing will happen when change occur. With the change of the franchise, the fanbase is changing as well. There is a part of the fanbase that will likely stand with anything SEGA does. So let's say a year ago they might've probably trashed the idea of a c.sonic and now all of a sudden they love it. I think it's also that many have realised and are starting to get convinced that we're heading towards much better times and what we had wasn't doing the franchise any good. The biggest impact was sonic 4 episode 1's anouncement. Let's forget about the end product for a moment. What sonic 4 episode 1's anouncement did wasn't just exciting people for a new game, but it created a lot of "what if" images in our minds, and those images sure didn't look bad.

I have been here for a while and I noticed the shift here too. You don't know how many times I have been bashed for simply asking back the older design. -10 reps for just using c.sonic in my post. Or about the homing attack in s4e1, another -10 reps. About some characters not being all that apealing - 10 reps and so on(My rep was around -170 total).

My own opinion is never "JUST" based around my ego self. I was aware of the dislikeness towards the franchise as here where I live, everyone thinks sonic sucks, while that wasn't the case back in the days. Even a simple character like cream the rabit has the potential to scare away millions of potential fans loving the concept of the franchise(sonic x presentation for instance). When I say something I will always consider the bigger picture. While nobody can agree about anything, I feel like I have been mostly on the side of what works. I guess my opinion isn't all that original maybe (lol)

Anyway, I just want to point out that i've basically always been against the weird changes from what I can remember and that I am not among the croud that "suddenly found it popular" to trash all the stuff. Also I don't think I ever trashed for the lulz because of the popularity.

Edited by Jaouad

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What next? Colors sucks? Bring back Sonic 06 formula? It's crazy, though I blame the vocal minority and the theory of conformity.

We're already there actually. Colours sucking, or at least being worse than initially thought, even got it's own discussion thread a few weeks back because of the increasing negativity about it, which I have to admit I was a part of to be honest. The 06 formula is pretty much the Adventure formula, and people are very much wanting that back it seems. I'm fine either way for now.

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The deal with Big is mostly a joke, I think; most people who say they like him do like him to some extent, but it's also fun to make the fat retarded cat out to be a badass.

I'm not sure it is as much as you would like to think.

For years people were looking and studying the main characters like crazy (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Eggman), then suddenly myself and a few others started to apply the same critical thinking and study to the lesser popular characters, when it came to Big, the general concensus between us was that aside form his Sonic Adventure gameplay which is quite boring, as a character Big is pretty good, in fact he's one of the better characters out there. The problem is that people tend to get hung up on his SA 1 gameplay (10 years old...) and his slow drone voice, instead of looking more at what he does, and what he actually says.

"It's not nice to tease my friends" *Clenches fists* --- Big the Cat --- Sonic Heroes.

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@ Hogfather: I think Roger's acceptance goes beyond a lack of baggage and primarily rests on the facts that we knew the change was coming, giving Jason diehards time to prepare, and he happened to have significantly better credits than Jason as a voice actor anyways. It was just handled much better, and I think the damage caused by Ryan's leaving would've been mitigated if it had been handled roughly the same way.

Regardless, I agree with your conclusion. I think in the midst of hype or backlash, it's difficult to get a true bead on what most people think for fear of either being wrong or earning the ire of their online peers. Very few want to be the killjoy of the group when the fanbase has proven time and time again that it can be so cutthroat to those who have different opinions. I also agree that the bigger Sonic fan outlets do sway the general opinion to some degree, but I'm not sure how to elaborate on that thought without appearing inflammatory.

@ Jaouad: This topic isn't considering what the general public thinks. It's addressed specifically to the hardcore Sonic community, asking them why they believe others or their own opinions about specific issues within the franchise may have changed within such a short amount of time as to appear to have happened without significant debate, and it's a question being posed without my biases entering the fray. I reiterate this with Dimps: I haven't beat a single Dimps Sonic game, but I can recognize that their reception in the fanbase has done a complete 180 that seems contradictory in many aspects without the privilege of seeing how and why the change in their reception happened.

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Ah sorry for misreading. I think it's just like in real life. People tend to follow popular opinions. I think i'll just leave it at that :P

Edited by Jaouad

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Some of the reason for changing public opinion has already been stated, like changing situations, like when Secret Rings could only be compared to '06, which would make most anything look good. I think people are more willing to be critical of games from a few years ago because now we're actually getting games that are/look good without any ridiculous gimmicks.

But personally my opinions of the games haven't changed much.

-Advance is good, but felt a bit plain for some reason.

-Advance 2 was good, despite being proto-Rush.

-Advance 3 could've been good, if not for horrendous level design.

-Rush is good, a few cheap moments (Altitude Limit).

-Rush Adventure is much better than Rush, though I prefer Rush's music.

-I never liked or bought Secret Rings because of it's crap controls, nice music though.

I do think that Dimps has taken a nosedive since SRA though, between UnWiished being terrible, Colors DS having a pathetic amount of content, and Sonic 4 (despite me liking it) not delivering at all on its promises.

Edited by Ekaje

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You forgot a few things:

2001- SA2 IS TEH BESTEST GAEM EVA!!! 2008- UNLEASHED SUX!!!! 2010- SA2 is overrated crap, Unleashed is great.

2005ish- SEGA MAKE SA3!!!!!! 2010- Shut up 06/Unleashed is SA3

2010- Colors is the best 3D Sonic game. 2011- ...maybe not THAT great...

2001- yes sega we want more characters! 2006- KILL SONIC'S FRIENDS WITH FIRE!!!!!!(dumbasses really just wanted their different playstyles gone) 2010- We want his friends back(no alternate gameplay)

I still maintain my view on Colors being the best 3D game though.

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I'm pretty consistent on my view-points, regardless of the opinions others have about them. In fact, I'll break down the list:

-I hold that Sonic Adventure, at the time of it's release, was an excellent game, and it's still my favorite 3D Sonic title.

-Dimps did a great job with the Advance series and Rush titles. The boost was, at the time, a unique gimmick of the latter and was an interesting way of making Sonic's gameplay even faster. Stretching it's use to other titles is a bit of different story, but still. The Advance series was great, with the first one feeling like the Genesis titles in it's gameplay, the 2nd one focusing on unhindered forward movement, and the 3rd one was a perfect happy medium between the 2. Sonic 4.... well, I think that, besides the absolute lack of momentum and total unoriginality, it's... well, that's what it is. I had a decent amount of fun with it, is the bottom line, but I didn't love it.

-Big's a fucking punchline. 'nuff said.

-I never gave a shit about the voice actors, except in Sonic 2006 where these characters were supposed to be taken more seriously than usual, and the focus was on the (atrocious) story. And it was a train-wreck, to say the least. Then again, speaking of retroactivity, I did admit I proclaimed to have fun with Sonic 2006 due to how much I was looking forward to it in the first place, but then again, I was a 14-year-old who didn't know any better, so really, I don't think that counts. It was a glitch-ridden mess that didn't even live up to the standards set by games that came out 2 generations ago. It disappointed me due to all the content that was left out, and I felt insulted as more and more news spilled out about what it could of and should have been.

-The day stages of Sonic Unleashed were pretty cool; it's focus on forward progression without loosing momentum (if you were skilled enough) sorta made it feel like you weren't playing a Sonic game, but rather, you were Sonic himself, blasting through these fun areas. The problem is there wasn't enough platforming segments to balance it out, like in the classic games, and that just made it too much of a boost fest for me. Plus the controls made me feel more slippery than a hockey player on ice with ADD. The Night stages... well, I thought the gameplay was cool, but a lot of the levels were just ridiculously long and focused on stupid stuff that has no place being in a Sonic game, such as tight-rope walking over bottomless pits. It almost feels like a cheap way for SEGA to totally split the platforming from the running, creating 2 entire unique gameplay styles based on the 2. And that is where Sonic Unleashed.... well, doesn't fail in my book, but keeps it from being a great game. To me, it's just above average. I am referring to the 360/PS3 version, since I pretty much share everyone else's opinion on the Wii/PS2 versions.

-Sonic R was a fun little game. As a kid, I ignored the craptacular controls and had fun with it beyond that. The music's campier than boy scouts lost in a forest, sure, but I still enjoy it for the nostalgic value, and without it, Sonic R wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable to me as it is. Heck, I'd go so far to say that the soundtrack makes it for me.

There's my stance on that stuff, I don't think I've wavered too much on it since I've joined. I can't speak for everyone else, but then again, given how I usually take pride in being "against the mold" like the oh-so-adorable rebel that I am, I'm fine with sticking to my guns, regardless of how unpopular they can be.... Sonic games included ;) Sure, as better products come out and we actually realize we can indeed get better, sure, opinions are subject to change. Also, perhaps an editorial about something could help people see things in a different light. But I'd like to think that a general consensus shouldn't change just because someone we perceive as popular perceives something in a different light than what we perceive about it. It's almost as pretentious as repeating a word over and over again to try and sound witty.

Edited by EXshad

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To answer the original question, I find personally that opinions are just malleable, and that's why there are so many u-turns in trends and consensuses (consensi?). There is so much debate in the Sonic fanbase, so many opposing views... yet these debates cause some people to see things they didn't see before, or gain new perspective of the other side's point.

The first example that comes to mind from personal experience is Sonic Colors. Though I could still endlessly debate about the plot and characterization, I have quite a bit more respect for it than I did from the get-go... those issues included.

Half the time, when I argue against something I don't like in the Sonic series, I just want to be proven wrong so I can like it. *shrugs*

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You forgot a few things:

2001- SA2 IS TEH BESTEST GAEM EVA!!!

Are you sure about that? From what i have heard, most people in the fanbase neither loved nor hated it when it first came out. That it was mostly just sorta "yeah, it's alright i guess", and that the era when SA2 was enormously popular within the Sonic fanbase didn't start until a few years later (maybe 2004 or so) when the kids who played it back in 2001 became old enough to join the online Sonic community. Granted, i myself didn't join the online fanbase until 2003, so i dont have any first-hand experience of what it was like back in 2001, but this is the impression iv'e gotten when speaking with people who have been in the fanbase longer (like some of the guys over at GHZ who have been involved in Sonic's internet fandom ever since the mid 90's).

On another note, i really love discussions like these; discussions about the fanbase and it's up's and downs. A personal favorite topic of mine is the fanbase's stance on Sonic X. I joined the fanbase just prior to when the show hit Western airwaves, and i remember how more and more people started to accept the show as "canon" to the game universe, something that i was against since day one. Around 2004-2005 it almost sometimes seemed to me like about half the fanbase were more interested in the show than in the games. Then around 2006, the "Sonic X is canon" stance started dying out, and today, anyone who even dare to suggest such a thing will be laughed at.

Edited by batson

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And Dimps made Advance 1 and Sonic Team made Sonic 06.

Yes, but it's important to remember that as Dimps gets worse, Sonic Team has been getting better. The trend Sonic Team seems to have going for them is that their games are getting progressively better. The trend Dimps seems to have going for them is that their games are getting progressively worse. Therefore, people prefer Sonic Team now.

Personally, I love Rush, dislike Rush Adventure, hate Colors DS, and hate Sonic 4. The problem with Colors and Sonic 4 for me is that they seem like watered down Rush's. I loved running forward as fast as possible, reacting fast to everything, and pulling off as many tricks as possible to boost non-stop through the whole level. With Colors DS and Sonic 4, they slow things down quite a bit, and that's when the fucking awful physics stick out like a sore thumb.

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