Things You'd Like To See Explored More

[Tobbii]

Really? Didn't know that. I have to read it. It sounds like a good, heartwarming story.

[Tatsumaki]

Well, there's a site that translates this manga and other Sonic manga's. This page is the one that features Nicky (He's a little bespectacled Hedgie boy whose alter ego is Sonic) and Nicky's pilot father, Paulie and the Tornado.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Diogenes]

Actually, it does. Though the Genesis stories don't explain it much, how else would Sonic go to West Island in Sonic 2 and meet Tails for the first time?

[Tatsumaki]

Don't know, don't care. That's such an insignificant detail that I do not desire an explanation at all.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Diogenes]

"Things You'd Like To See Explored More"

...we were talking about how, hypothetically, Sonic could get to West Side Island without a plane. That's not part of "things you'd like to see explored more", it's part of a tangential discussion between the two of us regarding how having Tails, rather than Sonic, own the Tornado would affect the story.

You can feel free to comment, but don't pretend the comment was directed towards you.

YOU QUOTED ME WHEN YOU SAID IT.

The possibility still exists. Perhaps places such as South Island and West Island never had boats.

There is absolutely no reason to assume this is true. And if Sonic had to get to West Side Island, and he didn't have a plane, they would've written in some form of transportation to get him there. How Sonic got to the island isn't important.

I never said there never were any boats in the world, exactly. I just said there's probably very few.

You said "boats...technically don't exist in Sonic's world".

Nevertheless... Wow, that's pretty cool: Sonic manually rowing a boat from fuckin' South Island to West Island. He's basically moving two whole directions, from "islands" that are miles apart. Quoting, because the fact that there are so many differences and types of terrain in Sonic's setting, I doubt that they're islands at all; they may be continents. Also, don't forget that Sonic has a huge phobia with water. If boats do turn out to exist in every corner in Sonic's world, he wouldn't even dare go to any of these things.

Why does it have to be some dinky little one man rowboat? Maybe he took a luxury cruise liner.

He'd rather be caught dead in Robotnik's hairy, greasy ass-hole before getting any near water.

Labyrinth, Aquatic Ruin, Hydrocity. He's no big fan of water but it doesn't stop him from getting shit done.

Okay, you're not getting me. How the fuck can Sonic go from West Island to South Island without even knowing Tails in the first place?!

You were talking about Angel Island! They already know each other by then!

It's evident in the Sonic Retro info that Sonic goes to South Island, where Tails was already there, they meet, they become good friends. It just has to do with the storyline, whether you like it or not.

I know that, I already said that, and I said it's the only part where who owns the plane matters.

edit:

You still can't ignore the relevance of Sonic's plane with the storyline. It wasn't a one-time thing like Hyper Sonic. This airplane pursued Sonic's story until Sonic Unleashed, a 2008 game. The Tornado. Is. Canon.

What the f-

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

I am not arguing against the existence of the plane! I have never argued against the existence of the plane! I have argued that it would make almost no difference who owned the plane!

I swear to god I am going to have an aneurism if I keep trying to argue with you, it's like mental whiplash trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about from sentence to sentence.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Diogenes

[Tatsumaki]

...we were talking about how, hypothetically, Sonic could get to West Side Island without a plane. That's not part of "things you'd like to see explored more", it's part of a tangential discussion between the two of us regarding how having Tails, rather than Sonic, own the Tornado would affect the story.

YOU QUOTED ME WHEN YOU SAID IT.

There is absolutely no reason to assume this is true. And if Sonic had to get to West Side Island, and he didn't have a plane, they would've written in some form of transportation to get him there. How Sonic got to the island isn't important.

You said "boats...technically don't exist in Sonic's world".

Why does it have to be some dinky little one man rowboat? Maybe he took a luxury cruise liner.

Labyrinth, Aquatic Ruin, Hydrocity. He's no big fan of water but it doesn't stop him from getting shit done.

You were talking about Angel Island! They already know each other by then!

I know that, I already said that, and I said it's the only part where who owns the plane matters.

edit:What the f-

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

I am not arguing against the existence of the plane! I have never argued against the existence of the plane! I have argued that it would make almost no difference who owned the plane!

I swear to god I am going to have an aneurism if I keep trying to argue with you, it's like mental whiplash trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about from sentence to sentence.

You gave me a smile on my face when you said that I was about to give you an aneurism, so I'll continue speaking with you so you can get a tumor as well.

What I've been trying to tell you with much patience but you seem to pointlessly rant about it is: I'll go from the beginning.

In Sonic 2, Sonic used his already obtained Tornado airplane to fly from South Island (place where Sonic 1 took place) to West Island (place where Sonic 2 takes place now). There, he meets Tails, and they get to become friends. The Tornado gets used in the game once more, as we all know, in Sky Chase Zone, but crashes by one of Robotnik's many lasers; as we all know. Yadayadayada, story goes on. Lastly, Sonic defeats Robotnik, and the Death Egg crashes against Angel Island, making it fall straight to the watery surface. There, depending on the endings, Sonic either falls straight to the stratosphere and lands on a platform already built on the Tornado. Tails is driving it. The other is, Sonic is still found in his Super Form and flies along with Tails, who is driving the Tornado. The game finishes.

In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Sonic and Tails were found flying together in the Tornado. Sonic decides to turn Super for shits and giggles, and Knuckles suddenly punches Sonic. We all know how this complicated story goes from here on. The Tornado is also used in the last part of the game.

I said there wasn't technically any type of transportation in Sonic games. Note technically, bro. If I didn't write technically, it means it's absolute. As in, there are no boats or any type of transportation in Sonic's world. In this case, by saying TECHNICALLY, I am saying that there may be other types of transportation, but it could be something scarce.

My conclusion:

What I mean from all this is, the Tornado is a very important element in Sonic's story. So.Nic. Not Tails, nor Knuckles. Sonic.

The true owner of the Tornado is crucial. As you must know, stories are like mathematics: if there's something that's a bit strange, wrong, or totally unrelated, the story ceases to make sense, and lacks continuity.

I honestly don't know where did all that of you telling me what's the difference if Tails were the owner of the Tornado instead of Sonic would influence the story or not came from. The very origin of my comment was a very simple one: Most people confuse Tails as the owner of all the Tornado planes, since they mostly see him piloting them, which was what bothered me.n That was all I was saying, dude.

Also, keep your temper, and try not to say such rude things. Some of these days, you are going to be in big trouble in your personal life if you don't do so.

Organize everything you're going to say and do it little by little. I understand that I write a lot of bull-shit, but, c'mon. Don't write everything I say all at once because both of us will get confused. Amazing how a fuss this huge forms by a small misunderstanding.

And chill the fuck down, this is a video game about a little, 3 foot something blue hedgehog speeding around through different places, fighting a fat man with a mustache. This is totally not real. K?

kthxbro.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Nepenthe]

Just my input on one little bit of the above clusterfuck--

We have actually seen cars, trucks, jets, warships, space shuttles, snowboards, inline skates, hang gliders, and indeed, boats and jet skis in the Sonic games. The artwork has given us bikes and skateboards and probably a pogo stick in there somewhere too. There is no technically about; we know that fairly realistic transporation exists in the games alongside fantastical transportation like the Extreme Gear, hover skates, and Eggman's ships.

That's all I want to say. *skips on out.*

[Tatsumaki]

Just my input on one little bit of the above clusterfuck--

We have actually seen cars, trucks, jets, warships, space shuttles, snowboards, inline skates, hang gliders, and indeed, boats and jet skis in the Sonic games. The artwork has given us bikes and skateboards and probably a pogo stick in there somewhere too. There is no technically about; we know that fairly realistic transporation exists in the games alongside fantastical transportation like the Extreme Gear, hover skates, and Eggman's ships.

That's all I want to say. *skips on out.*

And that I'm aware about. No offense, but I may have departed myself completely from all things Sonic in 2005 and came back in like 2009 or so, but I don't live under a rock so badly as to not know these other methods of transportation exist. I am talking under the confines of the Genesis series. Riders, Sonic R, and SEGA All Stars Racing, and Sonic Extreme have nothing to do with this. From the look of the games, other methods of transportation look scarce. But I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Everything you've wrote could have been cleared up if you read everything I've posted, as it is described clearly. Sonic Retro also clearly states as the Tornado as the main way of how Sonic transported from place to place in the Genesis games. He used nothing else. Just planes. That's it. My original post was all about how I want the Tornado's history to be explained more appropriately because it can give an interesting story that would still retain that nice spark Sonic's always had. That is all I have asked, and I will skip on out as well.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Tatsumaki]

I'd also like it if the moderators would lock this thread, as the topic has died and gone totally off topic because of my fault. Pardon for the rudeness.

[Kuzu]

I'd also like it if the moderators would lock this thread, as the topic has died and gone totally off topic because of my fault. Pardon for the rudeness.

[Your Vest Friend]

You know, I understand the logic behind the whole explanation you gave for Shadow and Cream (you're thinking of the morality pet trope, right?), but I honestly don't think Shadow's the kind of character who would respond to a morality pet. Sure, he's not emotionless, but I doubt he'd care that much for Cream or her cute plight.

Then again, I suppose temporarily having her act as morality pet for Shadow can't be any worse than having her act as morality pet for Vector. As far as I'm aware, he'd have a pretty damn negative response to her (if someone has Sonic Free Riders and thinks the game calls bullshit on this, please tell me). It'd be like a mild form of making Penta Penguin a morality pet for Dingodile, it just doesn't quite gel.

[Tobbii]

OR ya know, we can just get back on topic.

Anyway, I'd like something between Shadow & Cream to start, why? Because I think Cream's positive attitude can rub off on Shadow, and make him less uptight, and Shadow would actually show some compassion for a change(Without losing his edge of course, dude has a reputation to keep up), Shadow would go out of his way to make Cream always smile, and will protect her from anything that can harm her, be it hero or villain.

I can't agree, mostly because I find Cream to be very unlikable. Amy already helped Shadow see compassion in SA2 and the only reason he was a bit gloomy and uptight past his amnesia was because he was trying to come to terms with the fact that humans would imprison him again. At least that's how I viewed it. Look back at SA2, look how cocky and talkative he was when meeting Sonic, imagine him like that but not as a villain, that's how Shadow could be without having someone like Cream giving him a positive attitude.

Of course, if the new writers were to perhaps make me like Cream it might change my mind, but as of now I think Cream and Shadow would just feel like a forced mix in order to "prove" Shadow has more to him than "Garr, I'm angsty!" even though we already know that.

[Raxz]

Yeah I think Shadow would have more of a let's-get-this-over-with attitude with Cream. He'd either be annoyed with her or just completely ignore her.

So anyway, some minor some major things I'd like to see:

Sonic loosening up a little too much with Blaze. I'm sure by the third (well, some higher number if you count non-Rush games) time he sees her they'll have already known each other very well by that point. This could result in Sonic getting a little too loose. I'm just waiting for Sonic to say something incredibly rude to Blaze and then he gets bitch slapped so hard!

Going to be shot for this one: At least slight romance between characters. (But nothing like Elise, DEAR GOD) In the serious universe Modern Sonic lives in, don't you think the "NO GIRLFRIENDS" rule is jut a little bit BS? I dunno, I find it weird that the existing relationships are just frozen where they are. It's like the entire cast mass-friend-zoned each other.

Rouge not having butterfingers! Seriously when has her use as a Master Theif ever been beyond, "Steal something so the next person can steal it from her." WTF.

Powers being used in unison. Usually one character either does their thing, or if more than one character is trying to do something at once they take turns? What's up with that? It'd be cool if they occasionally SYNCHRONIZED their powers for some sort of combined use. Sonic Heroes did this well with the Team Blasts.

Your mom.

What are the characters like when the role model characters are removed from the equation? Practically every character uses either Sonic, Blaze, or Shadow as a role model. Knock them all out or freeze them for a few minutes and see what the remaining characters do to improvise. Problem with this one is it's not a very good idea from a gameplay standpoint, only from a story standpoint. People want to play as Sonic.

[Tobbii]

Going to be shot for this one: At least slight romance between characters. (But nothing like Elise, DEAR GOD) In the serious universe Modern Sonic lives in, don't you think the "NO GIRLFRIENDS" rule is jut a little bit BS? I dunno, I find it weird that the existing relationships are just frozen where they are. It's like the entire cast mass-friend-zoned each other.

We have the Amy Date thing in Unleashed and Black Knight.

Not to mention the Silver loves Blase thing in 2006, but since that got auto-retconned I guess it doesn't matter.

Or Rouge and Shadow for that matter, 2006 really gave them a connection. Funny since in SA2 it felt more as if Knuckles was going to get Rouge.

Personally, I don't really care. A huge bunch of friends can exist without partnership after all, going by my own circle of friends I'm the only one with a girlfriend so I think it works with everyone as friends if that's what Sega wants.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tobbii

[The Weeb with No Name]

I want to see a romance triangle between Sonic, Shadow and Amy.

[Tobbii]

I want to see a romance triangle between Sonic, Shadow and Amy.

I agree, Sonic needs to confess his love to Shadow before it's too late.

Hell, every time he sees Shadow he's like..

"Hey wanna' race Shadow?"

"Nice to see you Shadow!"

"Thanks for helping me out Shadow, couldn't have done that by myself!"

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tobbii

[Kuzu]

I can't agree, mostly because I find Cream to be very unlikable. Amy already helped Shadow see compassion in SA2 and the only reason he was a bit gloomy and uptight past his amnesia was because he was trying to come to terms with the fact that humans would imprison him again. At least that's how I viewed it. Look back at SA2, look how cocky and talkative he was when meeting Sonic, imagine him like that but not as a villain, that's how Shadow could be without having someone like Cream giving him a positive attitude.

Of course, if the new writers were to perhaps make me like Cream it might change my mind, but as of now I think Cream and Shadow would just feel like a forced mix in order to "prove" Shadow has more to him than "Garr, I'm angsty!" even though we already know that.

Your view on Cream has nothing to do with how the relationship can work out. And just because its been done before doesn't mean it can't be done again, I just see it as Cream trying to be Shadow's friend or at least make him smile more, considering she's 6, and innocent so naturally she'd want him to be happy. And this topic is about things we'd like to see explored more, I'd actually like for Shadow to develop a connection with ANOTHER character NOT Sonic or Rouge for a change. Also so it won't feel forced, how about you build up the relationship(Ya know, kinda like what she did with Blaze in Rush).

Also, going a bit off topic, Why the hell does everyone hate Cream? I'm neutral to her myself, but I've never found anything in particular to hate about her either(Other than her voice, which is no longer an issue).

I want to see a romance triangle between Sonic, Shadow and Amy.

OT3.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Shadic93

[Tobbii]

Your view on Cream has nothing to do with how the relationship can work out. And just because its been done before doesn't mean it can't be done again, I just see it as Cream trying to be Shadow's friend or at least make him smile more, considering she's 6, and innocent so naturally she'd want him to be happy. And this topic is about things we'd like to see explored more, I'd actually like for Shadow to develop a connection with ANOTHER character NOT Sonic or Rouge for a change. Also so it won't feel forced, how about you build up the relationship(Ya know, kinda like what she did with Blaze in Rush).

Also, going a bit off topic, Why the hell does everyone hate Cream? I'm neutral to her myself, but I've never found anything in particular to hate about her either(Other than her voice, which is no longer an issue).

I know it's has nothing to do with the relationship, that's why I began with getting it out of the way. And I know it's about what we want to see explored more, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allow to put down my thoughts on it, right? And yes, I'd like to see him befriend more characters, as I said I wanted almost all chracters to do that. But doing it just to make him show compassion is forced, especially when he already has showed it.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tobbii

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Also, going a bit off topic, Why the hell does everyone hate Cream? I'm neutral to her myself, but I've never found anything in particular to hate about her either(Other than her voice, which is no longer an issue).

I'd say it's because she's an extra character with very little worth, but I'm not entirely certain what the real reason is. She's one of my least favorite characters, but she not exactly someone I hate very much. It's even harder because there's not really much for me to dislike about her.

And yes, I'd like to see him befriend more characters, as I said I wanted almost all chracters to do that. But doing it just to make him show compassion is forced, especially when he already has showed it.

How exactly does him already showing it come off as forced? Doing something more than once isn't forcing anything when you consider he's shown it to very few characters, and only because he interacted with them more.

Really, if it's a case that he "already showed it" it's a wonder why that argument doesn't apply to everything else that's already been showed as well. I don't think I need to list example when I say that...unless you really want me to.

Edited May 30, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

I know it's has nothing to do with the relationship, that's why I began with getting it out of the way. And I know it's about what we want to see explored more, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allow to put down my thoughts on it, right? And yes, I'd like to see him befriend more characters, as I said I wanted almost all chracters to do that. But doing it just to make him show compassion is forced, especially when he already has showed it.

Did it feel forced when she was with Blaze in Rush? And even so it can just happen that Shadow isn't this emotionless jerk that people seem to believe he is.

I'd say it's because she's an extra character with very little worth, but I'm not entirely certain what the real reason is. She's one of my least favorite characters, but she not exactly someone I hate very much. It's even harder because there's not really much for me to dislike about her.

Exactly. I can't find anything really to hate on, and almost every character not Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Amy and Shadow have almost no worth so...yeah.

[Mega]

I want them to explore the smart side of Vector instead of flanderizing him into an idiot like they did in every game post-Heroes. :| I loved how clever he was in Heroes, and I'd love to see more of that, personally.

[Tobbii]

It seems I'm not getting my point across. I am saying that Shadow HAS compassion so making a relationship like that ONLY to make him show something he already has shown. I'm fine with him being with her if it's written well, but not simply to show something that has already been shown, that should be a given character trait already.

[Kuzu]

I want them to explore the smart side of Vector instead of flanderizing him into an idiot like they did in every game post-Heroes. :| I loved how clever he was in Heroes, and I'd love to see more of that, personally.

The problem is Vector is a supporting character, so he really won't get a time to shine unfortunately.

It seems I'm not getting my point across. I am saying that Shadow HAS compassion so making a relationship like that ONLY to make him show something he already has shown. I'm fine with him being with her if it's written well, but not simply to show something that has already been shown, that should be a given character trait already.

....That's what I was talking about.

[Tobbii]

....That's what I was talking about.

I missed that last post of yours.

Well in that case we're on the same page. ^^

[Kuzu]

I missed that last post of yours.

Well in that case we're on the same page. ^^

OK then.

Any way, I would like to see something with Amy & Rouge, now I know every one of their interactions is just a catfight, but that's nothing a little character development can't fix, have them spend some time together, and let them get to know each other.