The distinctive features of SA-games

[Spyro the Fox]

The main idea of the topic is to prove that the existence of Sonic '06 doesn't make it impossible to have SA3 created, as many people say, because '06 doesn't have enough in common with SA and SA2. Not only the title is missing.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Spyro the Fox

[Chooch]

Did I mention that this image being in a post where the person is arguing that Sonic 06 isn't an Adventure 3 equivalent to be hilariously ironic?

If you didn't know any better you'd think the Wave Ocean screenshot was from a fucking Adventure remake.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Chooch

[ArtFenix]

Half the game is Sonic Unleashed daytime stages and the other half is not.

We're not saying that it is Sonic Adventure 3, we're just saying it may as well have been.

If it was called SA3, none of this debate would even be here. No one would be saying "IT SHOULD HAVE JUST BEEN CALLED SONIC."

I agree with you, but same goes to Sonic colors or Generations. If either of them would have been called Sonic Unleashed 2, I doubt many people would disagree now, as I'm sure the daytime stages are all what Unleashed is all about.

P.S. SNG could be SO MUCH MORE than Sa3 if it was actually finished with all the original ideas implemented like day/night, unlockable Metal Sonic, playable Super Sonic on levels etc.

Edited May 27, 2011 by ArtFenix

[Indigo Rush]

The question shouldn't be, "will there ever be SA3?"

The question should be, "SHOULD there ever be SA3?"

EDIT:

I agree with you, but same goes to Sonic colors or Generations. If either of them would have been called Sonic Unleashed 2, I doubt many people would disagree now, as I'm sure the daytime stages are all what Unleashed is all about.

Well, not quite... the "Unleashed" part comes from Sonic turning into the Werehog, where Adventure has to do with, well.... why the heck was it called Adventure? Something about exploration, I guess. But yeah, Sonic 06 had exploration. Sonic Colors and Generations does have the same gameplay mechanics. but the Unleashed title refers to the Werehog and the Colors title refers to the Wisps.

They really otta call it Sonic Boom or Sonic Burst or something after this so we can properly name it something besides Unleashed-style, Colors-style or Modern-style.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Glenn]

The topic's subtitle is: "or why S'06 is not SA3". I'd say that's pretty much what the topic was supposed to be about.

Fair enough, my apologies.

I think I could just see where the discussion was sliding, s'all.

No offence intended.

[Silverfang]

I'm an Adventure fan and accept Sonic 06 as a spiritual SA3... and Unleashed as a spiritual SA4.

Please don't lump all Adventure fans together. That makes it much easier for us to be derided. =(

Fine...alot of adventure fans won't accept 06 as adventure 3.

Well, guys, c'mon... this is a franchise we're talking about. There are going to be obvious features that carry from videogame to videogame. Or should we all start debating whether Sonic Colours, on Nintendo Wii, is actually Sonic Unleashed 2 - Sonic Harder...?

Okay, so there were hub worlds, multiple storylines, etc. etc. but then Sonic Heroes, and even Shadow the Hedgehog, had multiple storylines following different characters (or even one character, in the case of Shadow, whose videogame was perhaps the closest we'll ever come to a proper sequel to Sonic Adventure 2, really). Two years later and the HD version of Sonic Unleashed, designed to be a completely new angle on the franchise, still had hub worlds. Does that make it Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) (2008), at all?

When it came to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), things were looking pretty okay for Sonic. The two Dreamcast outings were well-received, Sonic had successfully gone multi-platform and handheld success stories had continued the traditional 2D platform gameplay. Can you blame the 15th Anniversary videogame pinching a few concepts from previous videogames?

As fans, we enjoy looking at the differences and details between the many videogames. That's pretty much what I think the entire point of this topic was. Let's not overlook that and get ahead of ourselves. Play nice, people.

You make a good point glenn, a lot of characteristics are gonna carry over from game to game if they are part of the same series.

[Cstyler]

"SHOULD there ever be SA3?"

Yes. There are a lot of SA-fans who want a real continuation. So why not?

As I said in the first post, not only gameplay makes a SA-game so SA, but music, design and a lot of small and not so small details.

[Ekaje]

The main idea of the topic is to prove that the existence of Sonic '06 doesn't make it impossible to have SA3 created, as many people say, because '06 doesn't have enough in common with SA and SA2. Not only the title is missing.

No, '06's existence does not prevent the making of an SA3, but the first post was arguing that it doesn't have the "spirit" of the two Adventures, and that means it cannot be considered an adventure game.

Yes. There are a lot of SA-fans who want a real continuation. So why not?

As I said in the first post, not only gameplay makes a SA-game so SA, but music, design and a lot of small and not so small details.

What are these "not so small details"? Because all of the ones in the first post are pretty small.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Ekaje

[Sion-Ta]

The main idea of the topic is to prove that the existence of Sonic '06 doesn't make it impossible to have SA3 created, as many people say, because '06 doesn't have enough in common with SA and SA2. Not only the title is missing.

No one is saying that 06 being a spirital SA3 stops another adventure game from coming along (though it probably already has), just that 06 is an adventure-styled game. Also I think 06 had a lot more in common with SA1, than SA2 did.

[Indigo Rush]

Did I mention that this image being in a post where the person is arguing that Sonic 06 isn't an Adventure 3 equivalent to be hilariously ironic?

If you didn't know any better you'd think the Wave Ocean screenshot was from a fucking Adventure remake.

Sonic Adventure 4?

[T-Min]

So now Adventure fanboys are using the most inconsequential details to prove that Sonic 06 is not SA3? It's really come to that?

...Wow.

[Nepenthe]

Can someone explain to me what all of these exclusive similarities between the Adventure games are? People keep saying it, but I can't think of any (sans Chao and Emerald Hunting).

The style of Sonic gameplay is different. The gameplay engine is probably different too. The number of play styles is different. The art style and character models are different. The stories are different. The atmosphere is different. The locations are different. Some of the level tropes are different. Even the music is noticeably different.

How much more blatant do the differences between SA1 and SA2 have to be before the similarities that have been listed here overwhelm them as to solidify the games' supposed formula in the manner that's being argued for?

Edited May 27, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Spyro the Fox]

What are these "not so small details"? Because all of the ones in the first post are pretty small.

Like chao-gardens, character development, SA design and so on. Those are pretty meaningful.

No one is saying that 06 being a spirital SA3 stops another adventure game from coming along (though it probably already has), just that 06 is an adventure-styled game.

Let me correct you, no one here in this topic.

[Ekaje]

Like chao-gardens, character development, SA design and so on. Those are pretty meaningful.

Chao gardens are unlikely to ever come back, as they are an unnecessary feature.

'06 attempted to develop it's "characters", just because the game did it terribly doesn't mean it didn't happen.

What do you mean by "SA design"? Sonic played in a style similar to the Adventures, the game had hub worlds, and there were multiple characters with different gameplay that went through the same/similar stages.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Ekaje

[Badnik Mechanic]

I don't know about anyone else, but the main feeling of the fanbse... well certainly this forum at least. Is that Sonic 06 is/was/is as good as Sonic Adventure 3 with Sonic Unleashed being a close second... and likely Sonic Generations being a close third. And Sonic Heroes being the horse that looked like it was going to win but was then pulled by it's trainer when it got to the viewing pens.

I don't really know why we put up as big a defence that typically happens whenever someone suggests otherwise because the arguments are extremely poor and this one is no exception, it's around the same feeling of "Tails is a girl because he has a female voice actor." When really it should be the other way around.

Without blowing my own trumpet I could probably conduct a very simple experiment to prove that Sonic 06/Unleashed and eventually generations is Sonic Adventure 3... probably involving my dad.

Actually... I don't know why I don't do that. It would be quite simple to do.

Just ask my mum or dad to play the first stage of each game and ask them if they think those games are from the same series or not.

Like chao-gardens,

What the things that people play once they beat the main game because they want 100% and all the unlocks otherwise they wouldn't touch this thing with a barge pole?

SA design and so on.

In that case there will never be a SA3. Sonics design and each subsequent 'genre' or 'epoch' changes every now and again and doesn't go back.

This is more than cemented by Sonic 4's design compared to even that of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Hogfather

[Nepenthe]

Like chao-gardens, character development, SA design and so on. Those are pretty meaningful.

What exactly is SA design? The character art shifts between the two games, most noticeably in the models who go from more classic-looking and rounded versions of themselves to the more extreme, angular, long-legged designs.

And SOAP shoes.

[Spyro the Fox]

Well you see, in the Adventure's, Sonic was running, and here he is grinding, thus it cannot be a true escape sequence.

You're totally missing the point. Please, no sarcasm.

What exactly is SA design? The character art shifts between the two games, most noticeably in the models who go from more classic-looking and rounded versions of themselves to the more extreme, angular, long-legged designs.

There are a lot of details making the Adventure design and the current design different. They also were created by diffeten designers.

I could mark all the details, but I guess nobody cares here and all think that all green-eyed Sonics are the same.

-------------

And no, none of you have rights to call somebody "fanboys", in the case when they just have different opinions.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Spyro the Fox

[Chooch]

I thought that a distinctive feature of the Sonic Adventure games would have been the adventuring aspect. Having to explore the hub-worlds and find ways to open up gateways to stages. Having to traverse in between them to complete certain objectives and such. That sort of thing.

Then Sonic Adventure 2 came out and completely abandoned that idea. But it's all good because it kept Chao Gardens right?!

[Spyro the Fox]

I thought that a distinctive feature of the Sonic Adventure games would have been the adventuring aspect. Having to explore the hub-worlds and find ways to open up gateways to stages. Having to traverse in between them to complete certain objectives and such. That sort of thing.

Then Sonic Adventure 2 came out and completely abandoned that idea. But it's all good because it kept Chao Gardens right?!

The adventuring aspect still stays in treasure hunting levels, and Sonic/Shadow levels and Tails/Eggman ones. When you able to slow down a little bit to find a secret, a powerup, or a diffirent way.

[Nepenthe]

You're totally missing the point. Please, no sarcasm.

There are a lot of details making the Adventure design and the current design different. They also were created by diffeten designers.

I could mark all the details, but I guess nobody cares here and all think that all green-eyed Sonics are the same.

I'm already coming from the position that the many interpretations of the modern design have distinct differences from one another. Don't be so dismissive and give up on the discussion if you have a point to make, especially if people are merely asking you and others who share your viewpoint to expand upon your beliefs, because making statements without any reasoning to take into consideration is not going to convince anyone of anything.

I seriously want a post from one of the proponents of the original poster to discuss how the similarities between the Adventure games dwarf the noted differences as to make them a strongly cohesive pair of games and to then compare that conclusion to Sonic 06's features to demonstrate why it cannot be rationally considered an Adventure title.

In other words, make your argument.

[ChikaBoing]

Sonic Heroes is Adventure 3, because it came after SA2, had the same voice actors, and had emblems. And it removed Mech-Shooting and Treasure Hunting the same way they removed Big and Amy,due to fan and critical response.

Edited May 27, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[TwoTailedFox]

Sonic Heroes is Adventure 3, because it came after SA2, had the same voice actors, and had emblems. And it removed Mech-Shooting and Treasure Hunting the same way they removed Big and Amy,due to fan and critical response.

Personally, this is what I think. I've almost always thought that Heroes was a SA3 due to what Chikaboing said. Yes, I know what I said earlier, but Heroes seems more like SA3 to me.

Edited May 27, 2011 by TwoTailedFox

[Badnik Mechanic]

Personally, this is what I think. I've almost always thought that Heroes was a SA3 due to what Chikaboing said. Yes, I know what I said earlier, but Heroes seems more like SA3 to me.

It was actually going to be Sonic Adventure 3. However because the games producer wanted to appeal to more people outside the Sonic Adventure fanbase, they changed the title.

[Chooch]

You don't have to complete tasks within hub-worlds to get access to stages in Sonic Adventure 2. There aren't random human bystanders that you can strike conversations with like there are in Sonic 06 or even Sonic Unleashed. In a way those two games expand upon the hub-world aspect in the sense that you can do side missions for people within the hub-world (instead of just talk to them) and sometimes the side missions given to you are necessary to complete the game.

The Story mode of Sonic 06 focuses on individual characters (like Adventure) and not two groups of characters (like Adventure 2). You aren't forced to interchange between the different gameplay styles like you are in Sonic Adventure 2. You stick solely to that character and finish that story with that character. The basic gameplay structure between the original Sonic Adventure and Sonic 06 carries more similarities than that between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed are more comparable in some ways.

Sonic Adventure and Sonic 06 basically play out like this:

Start in hub-world

Do mundane shit to get access to new stage and/or different hub

Play a level

Go to back to hub-world

Repeat steps 2 through 4 to complete game

Sonic Adventure 2?

Play a speed stage

Play a hunting stage

Play a shooting stage

Maybe go to a Chao Garden in between all that?

It's linear as hell in comparison. Hub-worlds are a major aspect of the original Adventure game and somehow aren't even present in the likes of Sonic Adventure 2. If anything Adventure 2 is the one that doesn't feel like an Adventure game.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Chooch

[Nepenthe]

Sonic Heroes is Adventure 3, because it came after SA2, had the same voice actors, and had emblems. And it removed Mech-Shooting and Treasure Hunting the same way they removed Big and Amy,due to fan and critical response.

Under the above logic, wouldn't Sonic CD be S3, and thus S3&K S4&K, and thus S4 S5?

Being a sequel doesn't necessarily mean a game is part of the same series per se, otherwise we technically wouldn't have all of these different titles in the first place. Sonic Adventure would simply be S4 because it is the first major title after S3&K. SA2 would then be S5, Heroes S6, ShtH S7, Sonic 06 S8, etc.

Throw the spin-offs in there, and what would we be on now? Sonic The Hedgehog 50-something? =P