3D Sonic games

[Scar]

The title is pretty self-explanatory.

There is a lot of off-topic chatter in various threads about the limitations in Unleashed and Generations gameplay. There are also limitations/problems with the old adventure gameplay.

Some people think it should be fairly easy to translate the classic gameplay to 3D, I personally think that isn't the case. Some people think that Unleashed/Generations gameplay is inherantly self-limiting and can only provide shallow entertainment, even at its best. Again I disagree.

But anyway, back to the main question at hand. How would you design a Sonic game?

Include anything from how you'd like level progression, level design, controls, mechanics, movesets. Its basically how you'd conceptualise and create a 3D Sonic game, if you were lead creative designer/lead game designer.

Feel free to discuss your feelings about the old gameplay, the current gameplay and transitions from classic to 3D. This thread is just to throw ideas around, without having to worry about being off-topic.

[Indigo Rush]

I'd make a compromise between Adventure and Unleashed, Colors maybe. Give Sonic a little time to accelerate to his top speed where his control is focused forward, so you have little to worry about when you want to platform and explore, which involves frequent turning and jumping at a precise level.

In other words, the slower you go, the easier it is to move 360 degrees and platform, the faster you go, the easier it is to maintain speed and move forward.

[Raxz]

I feel Sonic is just fine as a tunnel platformer, and that that's simply what makes sense in 3D when it comes to Sonic. If anything the sense of full 360-degree movement made Adventure and Heroes feel wonky.

Oh by the way I'm not saying Unleashed/Colors/Generations style is perfect. It's definitely what works best so far though. Should they change it up again though they should definitely stick to tunnel platforming. There's other ways of doing exploration than by using the Adventure style, i.e. if you dash towards a nearby alleyway Sonic automatically turns 90 degrees and starts going down that path or something. Not that he should control like a Tron motorcycle -- you'd still need to have time and room to make the physical turn.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Raxz

[Tatsumaki]

I'd make a compromise between Adventure and Unleashed, Colors maybe. Give Sonic a little time to accelerate to his top speed where his control is focused forward, so you have little to worry about when you want to platform and explore, which involves frequent turning and jumping at a precise level.

In other words, the slower you go, the easier it is to move 360 degrees and platform, the faster you go, the easier it is to maintain speed and move forward.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Nepenthe]

While I don't want nor expect corridor gameplay to completely leave, I would like a 3D perspective and platforming to properly compliment it more as they continue on developing the style. Things like the gravity tile room in Lost World or the chambers in Final Egg should return along with Sonic's precision at slow speeds, and to help, give him a slower acceleration rate, (I mean, you have the boost anyways). Multiple characters should take a note from Sonic 06 in that they have the same basic maneuvers but possess unique movement and gameplay gimmicks and goals to warrant their status as separate characters instead of skins. However, they shouldn't be merely dumped in Sonic's stages unless the level designers are going to give them large, completely separate areas to explore. A hypothetical example would have been relegating Casinopolis' sewer to Knuckles.

[Diogenes]

First off, Unleashed style needs to die. Yes, it was much better than what immediately preceded it. No, it is not good enough. No, I do not believe they can fix it with a few small tweaks; I believe it is a dead end, and the sooner we kill it the sooner we can get to work on something that'll last. And no, this does not mean I want to go back to Adventure style.

Second: Proper physics and rolling. These were essential elements of classic Sonic, and that they've never even been tried in 3D is embarrassing. And of course we need level designs to match; no more slightly wavy paths with everything else barred off by pits or invisible walls. We need more complex topography, of the sort that takes advantage of Sonic's ability to run on any angled surface given enough speed and a connecting curve.

I'll come up with more later, I guess...

edit: Choices! Choices choices choices. The player needs to be able to make meaningful choices in how they navigate the level. Alternate routes are one form (and the most commonly mentioned), but different ways to go through the same area are important as well. And there should be routes of all different values and difficulties, not just a good but hard route and a bad but easy route.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Diogenes

[Tatsumaki]

First off, Unleashed style needs to die. Yes, it was much better than what immediately preceded it. No, it is not good enough. No, I do not believe they can fix it with a few small tweaks; I believe it is a dead end, and the sooner we kill it the sooner we can get to work on something that'll last. And no, this does not mean I want to go back to Adventure style.

Second: Proper physics and rolling. These were essential elements of classic Sonic, and that they've never even been tried in 3D is embarrassing. And of course we need level designs to match; no more slightly wavy paths with everything else barred off by pits or invisible walls. We need more complex topography, of the sort that takes advantage of Sonic's ability to run on any angled surface given enough speed and a connecting curve.

I'll come up with more later, I guess...

I know I respond more than I should with you in topics concerning Unleashed's gameplay, but...

Don't you think that SEGA already tried that with Sonic Adventure 1?

Sure, the Spin Dashes were utter shit, and many parts of the game were screwed up, but Sonic Adventure 1 looks an awful lot like Sonic Xtreme-3D Blast Neo.

EDIT, just noticed your edit.

True. No other Sonic game has implemented exploration. Sonic Adventure 2 was a little exploration, but it was extremely lacking when placing it beside the Genesis games.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Rusty Spy]

that (These are put in links so that my next idea doesn't stretch this post all the way across South Island).

I had this idea for a team mechanic that would involve finding little "items" of sorts that cause characters like Tails or Knuckles etc to jump in and follow behind Sonic. When these characters are acquired, you can switch between Sonic and your partner, allowing you to control them like you would normally (i.e not hindered due to teammates like Heroes). So say for example you have Tails as your partner. You can switch to him at any time and have Sonic follow Tails and use all of Tails's moves, specifically, you can fly and carry Sonic and access areas only Tails can fly to. You can also use a Team Action ala Advance 3 when as Sonic which lets you use similar actions.

So I guess in summation it's like Advance 3's team mechanic, with little dashes of Heroes team mechanic.

But it goes deeper than that. For one, each level has 1 or 2 partners that you can obtain, and the characters you can get differ depending on the level. Early levels give 1 character per level as an introduction, later levels let you have 2 characters, and the level design for the main acts have alternate routes that can only be accessed by using a partners ability. These paths can act as separate levels for the partner needed as they pretty much require their skills to pass, like how the main route (Sonic's) require Sonic's unique abilities.

In summation, levels can have 1 or 2 partners that you can use (similar to how Colors has up to 2 wisp powers available in each level), and can access their own routes (along with smaller alternate paths to find special bonuses).

Also like Colors, the partners are entirely optional and are not required to complete the game (though extra optional acts focus primarily on using them) but offer many alternate paths that expand the levels and let you find many secret goodies.

Character specific abilities would include Tails's aforementioned flight when switched to and when using the Team Action, but also using the ground Team Action (see Advance 3) does that boosted spring trick from Advance 3. Knuckles can climb walls and dig underground when switched to him, and can glide and break through walls when both switched to him and as a Team Action (the team action of which has Sonic and Knuckles combining into a ball which can break through walls).

That's pretty much the basic idea of it. Yeah.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH-aRdKtfYI

[azoo]

You just had to ask this question, didn't you Scar.

Shortish answer: SA1 gameplay without the spamdash and with more emphasis on momentum physics. The spin attack is a major form of movement and a vital method of attack. Stages inspired by Sonic Adventure, but with more branching shortcuts to the left and right of the main path, as well as alternate higher or lower tier routes. More stage gimmicks, more puzzles. More powerups like the classics. The occasional area where things may speed up and get kind of hectic, leading to occasional high speed drifting and dodging areas similar to Unleashed. These type areas would appear in later levels, as a sign of more speed; more urgency and danger afoot meaning you must be nimble and quick to survive the crazy terrain ahead. Playable characters have varied air attacks as well as ground attacks that replace the Spindash (it'd now be Sonic's special thing since it makes him the fastest), however these air abilities and special attacks to each character (Tails and Knuckles for example) give the advantage of air travel with ease rather than going through the trouble of getting hangtime by launching a Spindash off a ramp; as well as accessibility of alternate routes.

The story would be able to successfully be as serious and epic as Sonic 3K or SA1, but have as well written of a story as Unleashed, Colors, or heck the OVA. Speaking of which, the entire world and universe Sonic would live in would be solidified as a mixture of the world shown in the OVA, and the one shown for all to see in Unleashed. The game would most likely have classic designs (although modern designs aren't bad) and the environments would look like Generations and Unleashed, basically.

Shorter answer: Sonic flippin' Freerunner. =V

[Diogenes]

Don't you think that SEGA already tried that with Sonic Adventure 1?

[Indigo Rush]

What really needs to be done is lay down the basic idea, after which buttons can be assigned. Sonic Colors mixed with Sonic Adventure, in a nutshell, but to be more in-depth, here is what I figured would work best for 3D Sonic:

1) Sonic needs to be able to platform as well as be able to run briskly through levels, so acceleration needs to be taken into account

* Sonic's acceleration isn't brisk like Unleashed or Colors, but is more in tune with the Adventure series, taking about 3 seconds to reach full speed

- To keep it simple, start of with Sonic Adventure speed, end with Sonic Colors speed.

* Sonic's turning sensitivity and radius is altered depending on speed. The slower you're travelling, the more tight and precise your turns are, making platforming less of a hassle

* Likewise, the faster you are travelling, the wider your turn angles are, and it's harder to control Sonic in any direction other than the direction you were originally running (probably upward, but possible downward, depending on camera angle)

2) Sonic's jump must be similar to the classic games, in the sense that your momentum is carried

* If Sonic is moving quickly, he jumps farther, if he is moving slowly, his jump doesn't cover as much air, much like in Sonic Adventure, actually

* Ala Sonic Colors, tapping the jump button twice will result in different actions depending on the situation

- Around enemies or other targets, it will function as the homing attack, necessary for accurate platforming in a 3D space

- Otherwise, implement a double jump mechanic, to allow a way to platform easier

* For other characters, their air-action, so called, would vary depending on their abilities. Tails could fly, Knuckles could glide, Blaze could hover with her fire ability similar to E-102 or Eggman in SA2, or Silver could hover in the same way that he did in Sonic 2006, a different mechanic than Blaze.

3) A boost mechanic should be implemented to give Sonic a way to defend himself without having to lose momentum

* The boost needn't be like a bullet, ala Sonic Unleashed, but rather a sort of "instant top-speed" feature, limited by an energy gauge, which could be used for multiple things

* Turning should be rendered nigh impossible during this mode. The sacrifice of control for temporary speed and invulnerability

* The gauge shouldn't be refilled by commonplace items, ala rings in Unleashed

- Rather, I propose that the gauge refills itself after Sonic is no longer utilizing a move that depends on it

* The boost can't be spammed, as it takes a couple seconds to refill the gauge to an appropriate level to start boosting effectively; boosting constantly will prove to be a pain, so strategy must be implemented

- Additionally, for areas that may require prolonged use of the boost, item boxes/capsules with energy-regenerators can be placed appropriately throughout levels

* The boost can only be activated when mobile at a reasonable speed, as boosting while standing still can be hazardous in platforming sections.

- Rather than boost, a basic attack that is less speed-centered and more melee-focused will provide a reasonable combat mechanism when on a tedious area, say, the somersault

4) The spindash should return, if not only for fanservice, but rolling is Sonic's traditional method of attack

* Activated when standing still, taking time to charge with the energy gauge, the spindash is initially more powerful than the boost, although control is completely nonexistent as long as Sonic is boosting forward.

* The same button used to initiate the spindash should be the button that activates the rolling mechanic which has been absent since the classic games. Rather than boost Sonic forward, Sonic turns into a rolling pinball, at the mercy of the terrain, and perhaps the opposing force of player input (holding the analog stick in the opposing direction will slow him down, moving left or right will change direction slightly)

* Additionally, the rolling attack can double as a way to roll underneath cramped spaces, similar to the slide mechanic in Unleashed

* If necessary, for other characters, rather than a spindash, another secondary move could be implemented when standing still. An example would be Silver's psychic shock attack seen in Sonic 2006, which was necessary to pick up enemy robots if projectiles couldn't be hurled back at them. This doesn't necessarily mean the character cannot roll when in motion, but it eliminates the spindash from their move list, making it Sonic-specific.

* Perhaps the spindash could be either implemented by double-tapping this button, making it a crouch button when standing still and pressing it once, and an attack when pressed twice rapidly, then holding to charge power, and release. This could be true for other characters, say, a digging ability for Knuckles.

* Holding the analog stick while crouching could roll Sonic forward a little, slowly, with better controlling mechanics than if you started rolling at a running start, similar to the Morph Ball in the Metroid series, only at a slower pace. (This move makes the most sense, and could be useful for getting through cramped spaces when not enough room to go for a rolling start is available, and a spindash isn't appropriate for this platforming challenge)

- This could lead to some interesting platforming puzzles dependant on Sonic's (or any other character's) rolling ability.

5) The quick-step should be kept in order to move out of the way of obstacles without sacrificing momentum

* The effectiveness of this move varies on how quickly Sonic is travelling; since Sonic's turning radius becomes less effective as he increases speed, the quick-step will become more necessary, so alter the sensitivity of this mode in direct relation to travelling speed

* Can possibly double as an attack, as seen in Sonic Colors

6) The above applies to the drifting mechanic as well

* Useful for wide turns

* Dependant on Sonic's relative speed

* Can double as an attack as well

7) The quick-stomp should return as the combination of the jump button, and the rolling button in mid-air, to break through certain objects

* Induces an interesting move, when near a slope, using this attack and keeping hold of the rolling button will give Sonic ample momentum to fling himself through the slope, to the other side at high speeds: Think of inverse-convex curves in levels like Spring Yard Zone or Casino Night Zone

8) 3D to 2D mechanics needn't be ignored entirely, but considering that this is a 3D Sonic game in nature, keep the 2D sections relevant to their location

* Pinball and water levels in particular favor the 2D perspective, so naturally their occurrence is higher in said locations, though not particularly restricted to them.

* Additionally, areas that favor the 2D perspective should take a risk and try the third dimension; a 3D water exploration level and some 3D half-pipes and slopes would be very fun if implemented properly.

9) An extra button for picking things up, throwing them, grabbing movable objects or performing an miscellaneous attack (dependent on the playable character) when deemed appropriate towards the situation

* In one area, Sonic could pick up an object for a quick puzzle in a level, and in another, Sonic could be near a trail of rings and press this extra button to use the Ring Dash to reach areas only he can reach. For an example for another character, this button could be used by Tails to hack into an electronic door that is too tough for Knuckles to punch, leading to a Tails-specific area.

10) Sonic's grinding mechanics are pretty much unchanged from Sonic Unleashed, using the boost button to boost, although to the speeds of this particular hypothetical game, and the secondary button being used to advance forward, like in Heroes, though the usefulness of this ability should be questioned.

* Either the quick-step buttons or the analog stick can be used to switch rails.

* If the quick-step buttons are used, the analog stick should be used to keep balance, in a similar fashion to Sonic Adventure 2.

11) As for the wall-jump, I feel that this ability is best kept for 2D sections, although in 3D, it alternatively could turn into the triangle-jump from Sonic Heroes. This ability would be restricted to certain characters like Sonic or Shadow, while characters like Tails or Knuckles would be without it, although Knuckles does have climbing mechanics.

The thing to keep in mind here is that while this seems complicated as all-get-out, when you implement the scheme to their controllers and play it for yourself, it should feel natural. Sonic is touted for being easy to pick up and play, and I believe this should be preserved, but assigning multiple actions to 4 face buttons, 2 shoulder bumpers and 2 triggers could still feel natural and uncomplicated. This is something I would need to have a working game in front of me to properly test.

Until then, here is where these moves will be implemented, using an X-box 360 controller as a reference:

D-Pad: none, perhaps menu control

Analog sticks:

Left: Movement

Right: Camera control

Face buttons:

A: Jump/Air action

B: Crouch/Roll

X: Primary attack/Boost

Y: Grab/Toss/Carry/Extra attack

Shoulder buttons:

Triggers: Drifting

Bumpers: Quick-step

Combinations:

A+B: Quick-stomp

B+B: Secondary attack

A+X: Depends on the character, for Sonic, he would do a quick air dash, ala target-less homing attack in the Adventure games/While moving quickly, boosting in the air, ala Colors

Movement+Crouch: Slow Metroid-style rolling

These can be translated over to a PS3 controller, as for the Wii's Nunchuck+Wiimote combination, this is harder to work around, although it is possible:

Re-map the drift to a boost+analog stick turning combination at a sharp angle, ala Sonic Colors

B trigger would be the boosting and primary attack

Z trigger would be the rolling and secondary attack

The D-Pad's left and right directions could be the quick-step, still feeling natural

Holding C, and then moving the Wiimote around could equate camera control, but ONLY when holding C.

For the extra button, the down button on the D-pad would be best, at least it would be more favorable than waggle control.

A and the analog stick is unchanged.

When using a classic controller (Pro, preferably) or a Gamecube controller (which would be even more preferable) most of the X-box 360 control scheme would be ported right over, with the exception of the drift, being re-purposed for the Colors method, and quick-stepping being re-mapped to the trigger (for Gamecube, since it doesn't have bumpers) or the bumpers (for classic controller since it doesn't have triggers, and would be the same as Pro, to keep things mildly consistent for the "Nintendo" method of drifting).

This is how I'd do it.

[Tatsumaki]

You just had to ask this question, didn't you Scar.

Shortish answer: SA1 gameplay without the spamdash and with more emphasis on momentum physics. The spin attack is a major form of movement and a vital method of attack. Stages inspired by Sonic Adventure, but with more branching shortcuts to the left and right of the main path, as well as alternate higher or lower tier routes. More stage gimmicks, more puzzles. More powerups like the classics. The occasional area where things may speed up and get kind of hectic, leading to occasional high speed drifting and dodging areas similar to Unleashed. These type areas would appear in later levels, as a sign of more speed; more urgency and danger afoot meaning you must be nimble and quick to survive the crazy terrain ahead. Playable characters have varied air attacks as well as ground attacks that replace the Spindash (it'd now be Sonic's special thing since it makes him the fastest), however these air abilities and special attacks to each character (Tails and Knuckles for example) give the advantage of air travel with ease rather than going through the trouble of getting hangtime by launching a Spindash off a ramp; as well as accessibility of alternate routes.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Tobbii]

I'd design them different from game to game.

[azoo]

Dug this up from a while ago. My stance has changed on a few things, but for the most part I stand by this general idea.

[Indigo Rush]

I remember when I sat with you those many days you were making this setup, and helping you brainstorm how to handle certain aspects of it. Good times. :>

Also, I actually have a much more descriptive variation of what I wrote earlier. A much more descriptive one. It's gigantic, twice as big as Indy's big wall of awesome; and maybe I'll find it soon enough to post it up.

[The Weeb with No Name]

A complete separation between three dimensional movement and slalom running.

[Mr. Awesomest]

Here's what I think.

First and foremost:

Take the Sonic Adventure gameplay engine, and polish it like you're going to make a million dollars if you make a shining gem. Because you just might. Purposely create an extremely glitchy test stage and test it to hell and back. Making sure the camera is good in even trippy environments, movement capabilities are all smooth, no sign of falling-through-floor syndrome, nothing. And then, adding things onto it as you require (gimmicks, character abilities, etc.) Pretty much, spend all the time they would be spending on a new gameplay engine on perfecting one they already have.

Second, Current level design has to go. I personally just can't get used to/find fun in tunnel platforming. I'm not going to say anything along the lines of "Snoic Adventoor lvl desin pls", I'm just saying get rid of the current one. Hopefully for a more free and less on-rails-feelishly than the one we already have.

Third, all playable characters should be able to play and complete each others' levels, even if you have to beat the level as the intended character first. I'm sure you guys will agree.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Mr.Awesomest

[PatheticHedgehog]

MY ULTIMATE SONIC 3D GAME IDEA!! LET'S PLAY THEHEHEEHEEEE;

• Sonic is even more fast than in Sonic Unleashed or most "famous" TV series SONIC X! Now you don't need anymore use boost button! DERP!!!
• Sonic is now 20 years old sexy long haired.. He look someting like this;
  
  GOOD LOOKING ISNT?
  
  • Homing attack is now even more power full!! You witch now tricks system Sonic make some "cool" tricks and kill those robots witch STYLE!!
  • There are lots of chili-dogs and city themed levels
  • LIGHT GAIA AKA "CHIP" IS BACK! Now witch even more irritating new voice actor!!
  • Spindash is back, but why you use it? It is'nt so "cool" than homing attack
  • No more stupid 2D sections!
  • There nice minigame Sonic eXtreme racer and Sonic skater!
  • Rouge's comeback! Now she's Sonic's sidekick and Tails is Eggman's _slave! Sonic save Tails!!
  • Knuckles even more gangster than before and he uses GUNS!!
  • Shadow uses pink dress and he looks like bady.. You now Eggman did it..
  • The GUN try's again make Sonic their slave, but Sonic uses ULTIMATE POWER OF HOMING ATTACK! And all GUN soldiers dies!
  • Even more platforming! 3d style! Nice camera system and physics!
  • There's new character Pathetic The Hedgehog.. Sonic must fight that final boss who created that TIME PARADOX!!
  • Gaia Colossus is back!! Now you can walk on city witch it and squish yourr enemys!
  • Buy that game and you got 10 Pistols witch firearm permit!
  • Multilayer mode lot's off chars!
  • First boss is SUPER MARIO!
  • Second boss is FIREFLOWER POWERED MARIO!
  • Super Sonic and easy 3d special stages!

^{BAH SEGA KNOWS BETTER WHAT I WANT... But nice joke anyway...}

[Eternal EX]

MY ULTIMATE SONIC 3D GAME IDEA!! LET'S PLAY THEHEHEEHEEEE;

• Sonic is even more fast than in Sonic Unleashed or most "famous" TV series SONIC X! Now you don't need anymore use boost button! DERP!!!
• Sonic is now 20 years old sexy long haired.. He look someting like this;

GOOD LOOKING ISNT?

Plus long list of crap I deleted.

And this is why fans are not allowing to help sega design a future game anymore. I like the picture though.

[Tobbii]

Okay, serious answer this time. Starting writing this 9:19 AM over here, wonder when I'll be done.

• 
  
  
• Well, as much as I LOVE Sonic Unleashed, I'll probably go with no more boost.
  
• I want the SA1 spindash to return. I don't care how broken it is, I loved it.
  
• A LOT of alternative paths that really feel alternative rather than running a different path for a few seconds then getting back on track.
  
• Absolutely no kill-enemies-to-continue as in certain parts of Heroes, Shadow, 2006 and Unleashed.
  
• Hubworlds, as many as needed for the story. (which is a totally different discussion. )
  
• 100% optional Town Missions.
  
• Free replaying stages in Town Roaming whenever you want as in SA1/Unleashed rather than the SADX wait-for-it style or 2006 you-just-can't style.
  
• Sonic and Shadow would return as the two main speed gameplays. Sonic would naturally have the most stages since he's the main character.
  
• Robotnik would return in his mecha. Though I guess hubworlds would skip him since he's probably not welcomed.
  
• Knuckles would return but not exclusive to let's look for stuff. I'd like for him to have a few regular stages and a few radar stages.
  
• As for other characters, I'd love to have Tails as a co-op character for Sonic's main mode, mix it up with online for some real fun.
  
• This allows for Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles and Tails to be part of a Multiplayer Race mode as well.
  
• Some elements of the visual style of 2006 (Yes, I liked it.) but rendered in a better engine, like the Hedgehog engine.
  
• No 2D parts. Sorry, leave this for the 2D or Unleashed-styled games.
  
• Let the game spend at least 6 months extra when it comes to game-testing. We don't want a Sonic 2006 on our hands... So no leaving the devteam either! xD
  
• Enemies die in one hit.
  
• All rings lost at hit and 100 rings = 1up.
  
• Robotnik as main villain for real, as in Colours.
  
• Orbot returning, maybe Cubot as well so Orbot has someone to talk to.
  

And then I would get a game that I love and everyone else hates because of various reasons.

I think that's what I'd want for a game now, as I said, I had a hard time deciding since I feel each game can very well be different from each other.

And now it's 9:49 AM.

[Scar]

Well, my thoughts on this whole issue shall arrive shortly. I just need to collect my thoughts and arrange them into an understandable format.

[Tobbii]

Oh.

And NO Checkered Hills.

[ChikaBoing]

Oh.

And NO Checkered Hills.

What's wrong with them?

[Eternal EX]

Oh.

And NO Checkered Hills.

I'd kiss you if you were in my city. I'm dead tired of seeing rehashes with different names of GHZ. Just let it die after Sonic Gen. And most of what you said I agree with. Knux+Shadow gameplay. Eggman returns for more fun. I could care less for Tails seeing as he's just sonic tag along. I mean what was the last real game he played in? Sonic 06? Hell atleast both knux and shadow has spotlight in black knight even though they were just extra characters. Hell I even would not mind blaze return....just so as long as she fits with the story.

My list:

NO MORE TIME TRAVELLING/PARADOX SHIT: After Gen, can we let this go? I personally don't think it fits well in this series since all it does it cause confusion and even more questions.

Return of Shadow and Knuckles: After watching Sonic OVA, I really wanna see Knuckles return. But since he's stuck on the island (for some odd reason) he can't. I know he's the fuckin guardian but why can't Chaos protect it for some time? I mean it lives with him in the master emerald. And I'm a Shadow fan. He's not got much love. As long as they keep the guns, mechs, vehicles and other sorts away from him I'm kool. Sonic 06 almost did it right. Speed and his chaos powers.

NO MORE GHZ REHASHES: I love this stage and all but I'm tired of seeing it.

SPINDASH RETURNS: DO I really need to explain this?

Ring Dash/Light dash: Sonic has had this move since....Adventure but it was absent in colors. DO NOT COUNT THAT DAMN WISP AS MY RING DASH!!! It's a move that can lead to alterante paths.(bout cover)

ALTERNATE PATHS: I know Generations will have it but, I really don't count the path M. Sonic took as alternate. It just took a small detour, a longer one if you ask me. I was to skew off into a different part of the stage but still end up at the ring goal at the very end. Think of the fan game FreeRunner.

AMY!: Random I know. But if she's sonic's stalker, where was she in colors? And if they bring her back, don't make heer a pathetic girl who can't swing a hammer and also for no reason at all can turn invisible. She held her own in Heroes and SA1. And she's not even really that slow considering how she can some times keep up with sonic. Hell she's basically the Thor of the series....when or if she gets pissed of.

Eggman: To be honest I have no complaint about this guy. He's been perfect in Unleashed-colors. A serious villain but someone who can make the gamers laugh at times. And his lil red robot (what's his name) is a nice addition.

MORE DAMN STAGES: I blew through colors within 5 hours. Half the stages were jokes...really a 40sec stage that served no purpose at all? Can someone explain that to me? I don't mind it being 4-8 hours long but give me a reason to go back. Give me stages that I'll love and remember. Like sweet mountain. I complained because that's one trippy ass stage but it's very interesting. If the level design was a bit more fun and creative I'd instantly put that on my top 5 fav sonic stages.

HYPER SONIC/KNUCKLES/Shadow: I'm trollin a lil here but I loved seeing hyper sonic and knuckles (super?) in Sonic 3&K. That was half the reason I went back to 100% the game after beating the final boss and getting super sonic. More of a personal love for the hyper forms I guess.

Well that's it for now. When I think of more I'll return.

[Tobbii]

What's wrong with them?

Like EA said...

I'm dead tired of seeing rehashes with different names of GHZ. Just let it die after Sonic Gen.

Green Hill Zone

Neo South Island Zone

Neo Green Hill Zone

Seaside Hill

Splash Hill Zone

..it's just getting really annoying.