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General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)


Tatsumaki

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People do realize there is only SO much you can do with a console? eventualy what they can do with it is going to plateu, and all this will become null

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Well that's why stuff like the Wii and Kinect happened.

 

They're going to be trying more and more to do left-field stuff.

It'll probably be both nice (DS) and horrible (most badly done motion control)

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People do realize there is only SO much you can do with a console? eventualy what they can do with it is going to plateu, and all this will become null

 

Yes, but that won't happen for quite a while in the console space.

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Well he's right. It is Current Gen.

It's been the 8th Gen since the Wii U came out as it started off the next console generation :V

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Well he's right. It is Current Gen.

It's been the 8th Gen since the Wii U came out as it started off the next console generation :V

3DS and Vita beat it to the starting line ;p

 

I spose that means the Vita is "current gen" too.

The industry is full of hypocrites.

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If the Wii U gets that bad that it's just beyond saving would Nintendo ever drop it completely Virtual Boy style and move onto the next project?

It already did way better than the Virtual Boy did. The Virtual Boy was unplayable too.

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It already did way better than the Virtual Boy did. The Virtual Boy was unplayable too.

well it did give half its users seizures, and the other half headaches.... also what were they thinking with their marketing, someone needs to pull up the ad for it, its rediculous

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The Wii U is a fantastic console, let down by a combination of Nintendo's apparent inability to secure long-term relationships among third party developers, low sales driven by a lack of major releases, and by the inept squandering of the first year of the Wii U's life cycle.

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Now, acting like the Wii U is a piece of shit is far from the truth. I seriously doubt anywhere here actually believes that.

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Now, acting like the Wii U is a piece of shit is far from the truth. I seriously doubt anywhere here actually believes that.

From the way western developers talk about it (almost universally), it sounds like a lot of people actually believe it. Look at this trustworthy quote from wellknown mcperson who once worked with popularcompany for proof;

 

Nintendo.. when they made the Wii U, it came into my house and kicked my little toe. Never making a game for it.. EVER. Evil system.. unclean one.

 

Which means us people who enjoy the Wii U and see it as a good system are clearly living in the Matrix. That explains everything.

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Yeah, I really hope in several years time if/when another generation comes round that Nintendo will get back to competing on power. They can't afford to keep missing out on all of these games that the PC and the other two consoles get.

That failed spectacularly. So I don't really know why anyone hopes this.

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There are a couple of different things I've been thinking about lately that I'd like to say, so, basically, brace yourself.

 

There's something that bugs me about this whole third party issue.  Obviously it's bad that the Wii U isn't getting third party support from every possible studio, but I just have to ask something.  Honestly, out of all the development studios that are choosing to disregard the Wii U, how many were actually known for supporting Nintendo is the first place?  Considering that I don't recognize most of the names that are essentially dumping on the Wii U, it feels a lot like we're just seeing people who never cared for Nintendo continuing to not care, which is not remotely surprising.  The main exception that I've seen seems to be EA, who seems to be suffering from a severe excess of butthurt and/or bullshit.

 

I also think people are focusing too heavily on the bad things, on not paying any mind to some of the good, so I'd like to point a couple things out.  Capcom put Monster Hunter on Wii U.  Square Enix has had Dragon Quest X on it for some time, though that probably won't get out of Japan in any form.sad.png   Bandai Namco is working with Nintendo on the next Smash Bros.  Platinum Games has got Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 in the works.  It may not be a whole Hell of a lot, but the console is getting support from some well respected names, and it should have gone without saying that they were never going to be able to win everyone over anyway.

 

Incidentally, the whole issue of "Nintendo didn't do enough to win over third parties" there's something I'd like to point out.  Sony is an electronics company that also makes games.  Microsoft is an utterly massive computer company that also makes games.  Nintendo is a video game company.  Nintendo's entire business is built around video games, while Sony and Microsoft have other businesses that make money for them.  So while everyone likes to assume that Nintendo can just do whatever because they have tons of money in the bank, I don't think that's actually true.  If Nintendo screws up too much in their video game ventures then they're completely dead, whereas Sony and Microsoft have other things to help them stay alive.  Actually, Microsoft would probably be fine even if the entire video game industry completely and utterly collapsed on itself.

 

Short version of the previous paragraph:  Nintendo is probably more limited than Sony or Microsoft in regards to what they can afford to do for third parties.  Businesses don't thrive by senselessly throwing money at everything.  Also, I doubt anyone here really knows what they actually DID do, so...yeah.

 

In regards to the Wii U's weak install base, I'm still pretty adamant that the core of the problem is a lack of major releases.  That is to say, I don't think the name of the console or the advertising for it are as important to the situation as the simple fact that there just isn't really a big, attention grabbing game to make people want to buy it.  It's the exact same problem that the 3DS had, and it's a stark contrast to the Wii and DS, which launched with Twilight Princess and Super Mario 64 DS, respectively.  And the thing is, this is a problem that Nintendo was always inevitably going to fix.  The new 3D Mario will probably drive a butt load of interest in the console.  Mario Kart will help.  Pikmin 3 will help.  Wind Waker HD will help.  Smash Bros. hype will probably help.  And Nintendo's always working on tons of crap, so we're due for some surprises at E3, regardless of how they do their announcements there.

 

I feel like there are other things I wanted to say, but I can't remember them right now.  Now watch as no one cares about any of the points I've tried to make.

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The Wii U's reputation and sales are both suffering from a lack of major releases, you're correct, and yes the big releases of Q3/Q4 of the calendar year should do something to rectify that, but what's hurting it more are the lack of major third party releases. Like it or not, they sell systems. The Wii U could've really used Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite et al.

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Yeah, sure, but the majority of major third party releases are non-exclusive, and you don't buy a new console to play something if it's available on consoles you either already have or can get cheaper due to them being less new.  The Wii U needs major exclusives first and foremost, and that ball is in Nintendo's court.

 

The thing I forgot before was that Nintendo's design philosophies are the main thing that's gotten them into trouble here.  For some time now, their policy has been to release games "when they're ready," which is great for the quality of their products, but horrible for consistent releases.

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The funny thing is that Crytech seems to be fine with Nintendo, but EA pulled the plug on Crysis 3 for Wii U. But honestly, I see exactly what G-Force is saying. These devs that have come out never had any interest in Nintendo, so I'm not entirely sure Nintendo can do anything to get them on their side. They're human, which means they do have their own strange biases despite what those biases might do to them; and Nintendo really doesn't have the money to bankroll them. They might have more than Sony's gaming division, but Sony has tons of other divisions and their total net worth far dwarves Nintendo's. Comparing Microsoft to Nintendo is pretty much a joke. What I do like is how Nintendo is courting smaller developers, that's something I can really respect.

 

Edit: Think about the massive budgets of so called "Triple A" games. Do people honestly think Nintendo could moneyhat any of those to come to their console, these games that cost as much as a Summer Blockbuster movie to make? The only way Nintendo can turn anything around is by releasing their own games in order to strengthen the install base, which is also something 3rd parties complain about (their games doing too well). So...Nintendo is kind of not ever going to be in the best position 3rd party wise, now are they? This isn't like Nintendo vs. SEGA where they were both pure game companies. This is Nintendo versus 2 mega conglomerates  with CEOs that wipe their butts with toilet rolls made of 100 dollar bills.

Edited by Wreck-It Ralph
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So, now an article about this is on IGN...a LOT of people in the comments are really underestimating the importance of 3rd party games on the system. Their all like "OHH we don't need 3rd party games, Super Mario Galaxy is one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time so the system will do fine as soon as a new 3D Mario comes out!"

 

This is plain ignorance. The reason why the Wii did so well was because of its appeal to casual audiences (which the Wii U doesn't have)...sure it sold like crazy, but how many people still play their Wii compared to how many people still play their 360 or PS3?

Edited by KrazyBean
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To be fair, if anything kick starts the Wii U, it will be a Nintendo game. Like I and others have argued, 3rd party titles won't follow until Nintendo gets itself sorted out, and it still will probably never match the scale of Sony and Microsoft's 3rd party support.

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Yeah, sure, but the majority of major third party releases are non-exclusive, and you don't buy a new console to play something if it's available on consoles you either already have or can get cheaper due to them being less new.  The Wii U needs major exclusives first and foremost, and that ball is in Nintendo's court.

So, you think that just because they aren't usually exclusive, they aren't system sellers on the same level as exclusives? Their presence would do a lot to get rid of the "Wii U has no games" meme.

The Wii U's big hook is the Gamepad, and its capacity for delivering off-screen play at no extra cost (despite its short range and poor battery life). I would rather own a big multi-format third party release on that system than on any other.

 

The thing I forgot before was that Nintendo's design philosophies are the main thing that's gotten them into trouble here.  For some time now, their policy has been to release games "when they're ready," which is great for the quality of their products, but horrible for consistent releases.

One of the industry's biggest problems is that most big games seem to get released in an unfinished state, requiring extensive patching post-release. In addition, the last big game they rushed out IIRC was Wind Waker, and I think we would all have preferred that to have been allowed to be finished at its own pace.

I would rather they didn't sacrifice the quality of their products for the sake of a greater quantity of releases.

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So, you think that just because they aren't usually exclusive, they aren't system sellers on the same level as exclusives? Their presence would do a lot to get rid of the "Wii U has no games" meme.

The Wii U's big hook is the Gamepad, and its capacity for delivering off-screen play at no extra cost (despite its short range and poor battery life). I would rather own a big multi-format third party release on that system than on any other.

 

One of the industry's biggest problems is that most big games seem to get released in an unfinished state, requiring extensive patching post-release. In addition, the last big game they rushed out IIRC was Wind Waker, and I think we would all have preferred that to have been allowed to be finished at its own pace.

I would rather they didn't sacrifice the quality of their products for the sake of a greater quantity of releases.

Yeah, I really wish they had those extra dungeons put in. 

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It's kind of weird when 3rd parties say the Wii U needs more software.

 

...But if those 20 3rd parties released 2-3 games wouldn't that be 40+ games for Wii U giving it more software? Holding software back seems to just hurt it more.

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So, you think that just because they aren't usually exclusive, they aren't system sellers on the same level as exclusives? Their presence would do a lot to get rid of the "Wii U has no games" meme.

The Wii U's big hook is the Gamepad, and its capacity for delivering off-screen play at no extra cost (despite its short range and poor battery life). I would rather own a big multi-format third party release on that system than on any other.

Basically yes, but I'm probably not thinking it in the way that you mean it.

 

You're right in that those games would help the situation, and having unique features in Wii U versions can also help, but I'm inclined to say that most people are practical enough that they wouldn't buy a brand new console for extra non-essential features when they can more easily get the essentials on the other consoles, either by already having them or by them being cheaper to buy right now.

 

In that sense, I don't believe a non-exclusive could have the same weight and attraction to people as a true exclusive would.

 

One of the industry's biggest problems is that most big games seem to get released in an unfinished state, requiring extensive patching post-release. In addition, the last big game they rushed out IIRC was Wind Waker, and I think we would all have preferred that to have been allowed to be finished at its own pace.

I would rather they didn't sacrifice the quality of their products for the sake of a greater quantity of releases.

I was not, in any way, trying to say that they should.

 

I was merely pointing out that it's a double edged sword.  Their willingness to delay games for quality concerns comes at the expense of their ability to release games at a consistent pace, which leads to crappy situations like the current game drought on the Wii U.  It's a necessary evil, essentially.

 

Also, I hope you didn't take the second comment as being directed at you specifically, I just threw into the post because I was writing it when I remembered something I wanted to say.

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You know, this might be tinfoil hatting a bit...I got to thinking about EA's lack of support for Wii U. It's not a platform they can control as easily as the Microsoft and Sony consoles, due to Nintendo's (rightful) dogged protection of their creations.

 

 

I put this in a status, and decided to put this here to see if anyone else has had thoughts like this. Nintendo has done something that would decidedly aggravate 3rd parties, especially ones like EA, that is actually rather good for customers; they don't allow online passes and other forms of "DRM"/used game "profiteering". I suppose it's something that's entirely foreign to them since their take of online is that it's a totally free thing; any thing that would prevent that probably doesn't mesh well with Nintendo.

Edited by Wreck-It Ralph
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And I noted that the abrupt and inexplicable end to Nintendo and EA's "unprecedented partnership" is likely due to Nintendo refusing to let EA integrate Origin into the Wii U's overall online service, not just EA's games. That doesn't mean it prevented EA from using Origin with their own Wii U games, Nintendo simply didn't let EA have control over the console's online infrastructure, which probably caused EA to have a hissy-fit.

 

Granted, it's mainly speculation driven by a rumor, but still. There's little other explanation, EA's support practically dropped like a rock even before the Wii U's launch. Deliberate sabotage is the only real explanation for only releasing ME3 on Wii U instead of the ME collection.

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I put this in a status, and decided to put this here to see if anyone else has had thoughts like this. Nintendo has done something that would decidedly aggravate 3rd parties, especially ones like EA, that is actually rather good for customers; they don't allow online passes and other forms of "DRM"/used game "profiteering". I suppose it's something that's entirely foreign to them since their take of online is that it's a totally free thing; any thing that would prevent that probably doesn't mesh well with Nintendo.

Because EA has completely total control over the 360 and PS3.

No really. Why haven't EA cut support of those consoles if all their influence on it is their Origin accounts as well? This thesis never ceases to be a bunch of crazy talk.

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