General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

That was actually confirmed bullshit. I know several users kept linking that in this thread but it was outed that it was shitty journalism. From what I remember, Square Enix didn't say anything about Direct X 11.

 

 

I highly doubt Kingdom Hearts 3 would be hard to port over. It's just the lack of reasoning to do so. Also, Direct X 11 is exclusive to Xbox One. PS4 and Wii U use Open-GL iirc which supports as many features as Direct X. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U did in fact have the ability to pull off the same feature set. But with low Wii U sales, Square Enix isn't going to blindly make a game. It costs money. It's the same reason why EA support was neuteured.

well, cept for the fact that if KH3 was released on wii-u it would proably sell well due to the demographics, as disney related games are loved by kids, and it makes more sense than a Xbone version. its another case of it could help, but they dont have the paitence or want to help things change

not only would it proably help selling the wii-u, but it would proably sell well as well

Edited August 17, 2013 by Mandobardanjusik

[Autosaver]

I do agree it will sell well, but I don't think Square Enix thinks that. There would be a risk involved and they always make dumb decisions.

[Conando]

I believe the audience is there, but we don't really know the costs involved in getting it to work properly on the Wii U's different setup.

[RK64]

I think we kind of expected this for the most part. At least the difference in neutering isn't so extreme as it is with the Wii. Have you tried playing Modern Warfare on the Wii?

 

I thought the Wii version of MW was pretty solid (very impressive the game made no compensations on the content end to run on Wii and it pushed the system quite a bit with it looking okay, even giving the thing crashes every now and then ), but for the topic at hand, I think that if the Wii U picks up steam this holiday, then more 3rd parties will bring there big franchises to the platform with little compensations on the gameplay and content end, hell it might even look good compared to the PS4/X1 versions.

 

Square's excuse for no KH III on Wii U is quite baffling; many of the series important games (Days, Dream Drop Distance, Re: CoM, Re: Coded) all landed on Nintendo platforms and even though no numbered entry was on past Nintendo systems, they could have put the 1.5 and upcoming 2.5 remixes on Wii U (more than powerful enough to run them), but no, they put KH III on X1 as well as that system got a lot of KH games before...... Square are really stupid some times

Edited August 17, 2013 by RK64

[Conando]

I would definitely say a Xbone release is the most baffling decision they've made in some time.

[Syntax Speedway]

So, I'm getting a Wii U in October, and I was just wondering if most games work with a wii-mote and classic controller, or will I need to buy some pro controllers to play multiplayer games?

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

So, I'm getting a Wii U in October, and I was just wondering if most games work with a wii-mote and classic controller, or will I need to buy some pro controllers to play multiplayer games?

bothh work fine, and almost all games with multiplayer support them(many require them for that matter), the pro controller is good, but since only a handful of games support them yet, I would perhaps get one.

[Blue Blood]

The Pro Controller is generally more versatile, simply because it's a normal controller. You're best off ooking up the games you're interested and and seeing what they support. Lost World for example only works with the GamePad in single player.

[Sami]

That was actually confirmed bullshit. I know several users kept linking that in this thread but it was outed that it was shitty journalism. From what I remember, Square Enix didn't say anything about Direct X 11.

 

 

I highly doubt Kingdom Hearts 3 would be hard to port over. It's just the lack of reasoning to do so. Also, Direct X 11 is exclusive to Xbox One. PS4 and Wii U use Open-GL iirc which supports as many features as Direct X. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U did in fact have the ability to pull off the same feature set. But with low Wii U sales, Square Enix isn't going to blindly make a game. It costs money. It's the same reason why EA support was neuteured.

 

Also, Square Enix never said anything about Direct X. I remember you using that argument earlier in the thread to debate against the Wii U.

 

> We've seen one teaser trailer with absolutely no real time footage.

> Oh I'm sure it'd be easy to port even though they specifically said it wouldn't be.

 

Uh huh. Okay.

 

Regardless of whether or not it's Direct X in particular they're talking about, the point still stands - the games are both being built on PC hardware with x86 hardware, then ported to PS4 and Xbox One. This is impossible on Wii U, as its architecture is much more complex and unorthodox than the other two, and porting requires a lot more time and manpower. It's a supercharged Wii, which was a beefed up Gamecube to begin with. That's not to say it's completely incapable of making a game look good (Mario Kart 8's lighting really makes the game look gorgeous), but it's much harder to do so.

 

Look at the whole situation with Candle - while the Wii U isn't directly compatible with DirectX, its card is capable of DirectX 10 features, and the developers had to go out of their way to rewrite the code on a single DirectX 11 shader to make it work. With PS4 and Xbox One, that wouldn't have been necessary. The two of them both run on x86 architecture, meaning porting between the two consoles as well as the PC is very easy. The Wii U is not only far, far weaker than the two of them, but it also requires a much more involved porting process. If possible at all, it'll take a ton of time and money.

 

Porting Kingdom Hearts to Xbox probably won't net very many sales, no. Porting Final Fantasy XV most likely won't either. That being said, however, while the PS3 version outsold the 360 version roughly 5:2... that's still 2 million sales on the 360. If porting to Xbox One leads to a similar number, it'll be hugely profitable, seeing as how a port of a PC game to the Xbox One would not require very much time or money at all. Compare to the Wii U, where it's much more expensive, much more time consuming, and much more difficult... they'd have to be really confident they'd make money and that's not something anyone can say about the Wii U right now.

[Autosaver]

> Oh I'm sure it'd be easy to port even though they specifically said it wouldn't be.

 

Uh huh. Okay.

I hope you realize that corporations say a lot that are often done for PR. Many publishers had 3000 excuses on not developing for the Wii U and every time, they used a different one. Having a different team build a Wii U engine or scale down their current engine to work on Wii U hardware probably would be a good investment. With the booming sales this holiday season, the massive Kingdom Hearts audience available on Nintendo platforms, and the future benefits of having an engine available for future games would be tremendous.

 

That's not to say it's completely incapable of making a game look good (Mario Kart 8's lighting really makes the game look gorgeous), but it's much harder to do so.

 

Says who exactly? All third party games have been ports with enhanced visuals (ie: Most Wanted with PC textures/graphics or Trine 2 with graphics on par with PC). Now we have Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros 4 that look tremendous. I'm not saying it's going to be a 2 second job, it's just one that costs money. Like both of us said, Square might not feel it is profitable so they're not going to bother. Considering the audience is split between Sony and Nintendo, I would say it would be.

 

Porting Final Fantasy XV most likely won't either. That being said, however, while the PS3 version outsold the 360 version roughly 5:2... that's still 2 million sales on the 360. If porting to Xbox One leads to a similar number, it'll be hugely profitable, seeing as how a port of a PC game to the Xbox One would not require very much time or money at all. Compare to the Wii U, where it's much more expensive, much more time consuming, and much more difficult... they'd have to be really confident they'd make money and that's not something anyone can say about the Wii U right now.

Comparing Final Fantasy to Kingdom Hearts is unfair. Final Fantasy originated on Nintendo platforms, and those fans split off to both Sony and Microsoft. Final Fantasy also sells more than Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts will probably have incredibly poor sales on the Xbox One, not even close to 2 million.

 

Final Fantasy is also one off based while Kingdom Hearts has a continuing storyline. With no sign of release in Japan, the absence of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD on Xbox 360, and the more 'dudebro' audience of Xbox systems - I can't see the game being a success. Maybe it would make a little bit of money but the opportunity cost would be wasted.

 

I also feel it's a blow to Nintendo fans especially to ones that have been following the series for a long time. Your fans have bought every release but now you're ignoring them and making a game catering to the no-audience on Xbox One. All the assets are there. The models, the textures, the story, the music, etc. All they would need to do for Wii U is scale down their engine to make it compatible or rewrite it. Having that done would make it set.

 

They really should have planned for a multiplatform release on all 3 next gen platforms. Instead, they planned on slapping half their fan base. I'm sure it could be done. Hell, SEGA got Sonic Generations running on the Wii which turned into Sonic Colors.

[PSI Wind]

Honestly, I'm more confused on why KH3 is on the Xbone.

[Autosaver]

Honestly, I'm more confused on why KH3 is on the Xbone.

Exactly this.

 

Well, Discoid does have a point. If it DOES sell well, it can make a profit. He used Final Fantasy as a comparison. Unfortunately, Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy are not in the same realm. The branching storylines and crossover with Disney would scare them off. Ahaha.

[Nix]

Honestly, I'm more confused on why KH3 is on the Xbone.

 

Because they can port it with little to no effort and make profit on it even with abysmal sales.

 

Edit: Maybe abysmal is too harsh of a word here, but the point is it wouldn't cost them that much to port.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Pinkie Pie

[KrazyBean]

Honestly, I'm more confused on why KH3 is on the Xbone.

 

True. People who played on Xbox consoles have to go out of their way to play KH games on other consoles...so why bring KH3 to it?

 

KH3 really should've been on the PS4 and Wii U. I'm not sure if it's technical limitations or a low install base is the reason it's not on Wii U but considering that Wii U sales will definitely skyrocket before KH3 is even out, then one of these problems the Wii U currently has will be solved.

Edited August 17, 2013 by KrazyBean

[KHCast]

It's just hilarious that the last game of the entire Saga is going on a system that has a fanbase that has(majority wise) never played a KH game beforehand. (well 2.5 might go on Xbox 360 and XBone) Most on the Xbone version won't know what the hell is going on. I mean Nintendo got the game that LEADS into 3, and then they just get ditched? It just doesn't make sense.

[Sami]

I hope you realize that corporations say a lot that are often done for PR. Many publishers had 3000 excuses on not developing for the Wii U and every time, they used a different one. Having a different team build a Wii U engine or scale down their current engine to work on Wii U hardware probably would be a good investment. With the booming sales this holiday season, the massive Kingdom Hearts audience available on Nintendo platforms, and the future benefits of having an engine available for future games would be tremendous.

 

You keep talking about this massive Kingdom Hearts audience on Nintendo platforms, but... where is it again? Mind you, I don't have the sales memorized, but didn't the Playstation games sell best? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kingdom Hearts has always really been more of Playstation series than a Nintendo one. Of all the games, only one major one is not on Playstation. KH1, KH2, and BBS, the most important games in the series (though 3D could be grouped with them as well from what I hear) are all excluvsive to Playstation. 

 

For that reason, I don't see how your "but Xbox fans wouldn't get the continuing story" argument is supposed to double as a reason for it to be on Wii U? Assuming 3D is turned into a movie for the next HD collection, the only console base to have the entire story would be Playstation.

 

Trying to play Kingdom Heart exclusively on Nintendo gets you... a side game that later got remade on Playstation, two side games (one of which has literally no bearing on the story at all), and one main game out of four.

 

I'm really not trying to say that it shouldn't be on Wii U here, I'm just... trying to understand this logic. Xbox has never had Kingdom Hearts before, so it should not get Kingdom Hearts 3. Fair enough if you think that for whatever reason, but then don't complain when Nintendo misses out on Kingdom Hearts 3, considering KH1 and KH2 were both Playstation exclusive, and the vast majority of KH games on Nintendo have been side games.

 

 

Says who exactly? All third party games have been ports with enhanced visuals (ie: Most Wanted with PC textures/graphics or Trine 2 with graphics on par with PC). Now we have Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros 4 that look tremendous. I'm not saying it's going to be a 2 second job, it's just one that costs money. Like both of us said, Square might not feel it is profitable so they're not going to bother. Considering the audience is split between Sony and Nintendo, I would say it would be.

 

 

Nobody's going to risk investing in a console that's practically dead in the water. The DS games were a logical investment and sold well because everyone and their grandmother owned one - the same can not be said for the Wii U. At all.

 

Even the Vita would be a better investment, for multiple reasons (Japan prefers handhelds over consoles nowadays, for instance) and that's... quite sad.

 

 

Comparing Final Fantasy to Kingdom Hearts is unfair. Final Fantasy originated on Nintendo platforms, and those fans split off to both Sony and Microsoft. Final Fantasy also sells more than Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts will probably have incredibly poor sales on the Xbox One, not even close to 2 million.

 

 

Even 500K on Xbox would probably be fine considering how easy it is to port. Besides that, I know plenty of people who played Kingdom Hearts on PS2 and later jumped ship to 360. To suggest that there are no former PS2 fans on Xbox is ridiculous.

 

 

Final Fantasy is also one off based while Kingdom Hearts has a continuing storyline. With no sign of release in Japan, the absence of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD on Xbox 360, and the more 'dudebro' audience of Xbox systems - I can't see the game being a success. Maybe it would make a little bit of money but the opportunity cost would be wasted.

 

 

This is a ridiculous strawhat, but I'll address it - it doesn't need to be a large success to make money. Porting it to Xbox is simple. It's cheap. 

 

It's a "might as well" situation, not a large investment. This can not be said for the Wii U.

 

 

I also feel it's a blow to Nintendo fans especially to ones that have been following the series for a long time. Your fans have bought every release but now you're ignoring them and making a game catering to the no-audience on Xbox One. All the assets are there. The models, the textures, the story, the music, etc. All they would need to do for Wii U is scale down their engine to make it compatible or rewrite it. Having that done would make it set.

 

They really should have planned for a multiplatform release on all 3 next gen platforms. Instead, they planned on slapping half their fan base. I'm sure it could be done. Hell, SEGA got Sonic Generations running on the Wii which turned into Sonic Colors.

 

 

I don't think you realize how difficult that is, especially considering that Generations comment.

 

... You don't honestly think they got the same Generations running on Wii U, right? It would have been a completely different game, hence them ditching the name and making a new project entirely.

 

And seriously, the split between Playstation/Nintendo exclusive owners is not 50/50, don't be ridiculous. 

[The Kid]

I think what they mean is that despite not getting the numbered games, Nintendo systems have still gotten almost half of all the Kingdom Hearts games released, while Microsoft systems... not a single one. It does lead to the question of "Why Xbox One?" 

 

Honestly, I'd be surprised if it even broke 100k.

[Dobkeratops]

i feel like I've seen this discussion before lolol

 

Even 500K on Xbox would probably be fine considering how easy it is to port. Besides that, I know plenty of people who played Kingdom Hearts on PS2 and later jumped ship to 360. To suggest that there are no former PS2 fans on Xbox is ridiculous.

 

Square doesn't think there's enough fans on 360 to give them the HD collection tho. And the people who jumped ship to the 360 might jump back again this coming generation. That being said KH3 is indeed on the platforms it is (for now, barring any... interesting developments) due to easy port jobs.

 

If the WiiU was on par with PS4 and Xbone it'd also get a port, since lower sales aren't that much of an issue for Square as the 'bone release evidences.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Dobkeratops

[Jolt_TH]

To be honest I was always wanting to try a KH main series game, looked REALLY fun on my brothers PS2 ( before he sold it) so I would love to see 1.5 and 2.5 on the U, not expecting it but, would be nice

[Sami]

It does lead to the question of "Why Xbox One?" 

 

Because it's easy and cheap.

 

I swear I've said this over ten times now. If the same applied to Wii U it'd have gotten the game too, but sadly Nintendo just does whatever the fuck they want and are suffering the consequences as a result.

 

 

i feel like I've seen this discussion before lolol

 

 

Square doesn't think there's enough fans on 360 to give them the HD collection tho. And the people who jumped ship to the 360 might jump back again this coming generation. That being said KH3 is indeed on the platforms it is (for now, barring any... interesting developments) due to easy port jobs.

 

If the WiiU was on par with PS4 and Xbone it'd also get a port, since lower sales aren't that much of an issue for Square as the 'bone release evidences.

 

Wasn't it rebuilt from the ground up for PS3 though? That's probably why - PS4/One porting is easier than PS3/360.

[KHCast]

To me, KH3 is on Xbox one due to easy porting and Microsoft bribing them. Square must know that sales will flop in comparison to the PS4. Even if Nintendo's fanbase isn't as huge as Sony's it's a hell of a lot larger than Microsofts KH fanbase. The Xbone is a dudebro centered console. Interest in KH3 will be small on that due to little understanding or the whole "Disney Is for babies" general mindset. At least Nintendo fans have a greater understanding and could walk into 3 easier. (3D has a entire summary on each game released. So that definitively is a advantage.)

[Dobkeratops]

Wasn't it rebuilt from the ground up for PS3 though? That's probably why - PS4/One porting is easier than PS3/360.

 

Yes. They also saw the audience (or lack thereof) for their games on 360 with each subsequent FF release, and considered whatever benefits Sony offers for exclusivity are much more desirable than bothering to port.

 

KH3's situation is a different one, making a mildly downgraded port shouldn't break the bank and it's a new generation so they won't risk betting on a single platform until they know where the buyers are. But WiiU would require major tuning.

 

It is also possible Microsoft is throwing some cash at them to prevent further PR impacts. Nintendo would practically have to finance the whole deal and that sets a terrible precedent so they won't.

[Autosaver]

And seriously, the split between Playstation/Nintendo exclusive owners is not 50/50, don't be ridiculous.

 

Nomura has officially stated the Chain of Memories was made because of the high demand for a Kingdom Hearts game.

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days sold tons.

Kingdom Hearts RE:Coded was made for DS.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was made exclusive to 3DS.

 

Don't be cynical by underestimating the Nintendo portion. There's a reason why there's a ton of people asking for it. Kingdom Hearts is also Disney, which fits perfectly with the Nintendo demograph. While it may not be exactly 50/50, there is a LARGE portion of the Nintendo fanbase addicted to Kingdom Hearts.

 

 

Even the Vita would be a better investment, for multiple reasons (Japan prefers handhelds over consoles nowadays, for instance) and that's... quite sad.

 

Absolutely ridiclous!

 

Kingdom Hearts 3 will most likely come out 2015, which is far after the big boom in sales the Wii U will get. The Vita is struggling and there's no big boom in sight to even predict. The fact that Kingdom Hearts is popular within the Nintendo audience would mean the Wii U would be a better investment.

 

What's also sad is people overestimating the Vita's graphical capability. It's worse than the PS3. ...And we're discussing about porting over the Wii U which is quite powerful?

 

 

For that reason, I don't see how your "but Xbox fans wouldn't get the continuing story" argument is supposed to double as a reason for it to be on Wii U? Assuming 3D is turned into a movie for the next HD collection, the only console base to have the entire story would be Playstation.

 

Kingdom Hearts 3D recapped the entire story. Kingdom Hearts RE:Coded also summed up Kingdom Hearts 1 essentially.

 

What's funny is that people don't realize the audience overlapping here. A lot of Nintendo fans had a PS2. They followed the story.

 

Microsoft? Hasn't had a single title in the franchise.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Autosaver

[SuperLink]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not, but the UK ad for Splinter Cell Blacklist mentions every version except the Wii U version. Just thought that was a funny little depressing thing to drop in.

[Sami]

Nomura has officially stated the Chain of Memories was made because of the high demand for a Kingdom Hearts game.

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days sold tons.

Kingdom Hearts RE:Coded was made for DS.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was made exclusive to 3DS.

 

Don't be cynical by underestimating the Nintendo portion. There's a reason why there's a ton of people asking for it. Kingdom Hearts is also Disney, which fits perfectly with the Nintendo demograph. While it may not be exactly 50/50, there is a LARGE portion of the Nintendo fanbase addicted to Kingdom Hearts.

 

Absolutely ridiclous!

 

Kingdom Hearts 3 will most likely come out 2015, which is far after the big boom in sales the Wii U will get. The Vita is struggling and there's no big boom in sight to even predict. The fact that Kingdom Hearts is popular within the Nintendo audience would mean the Wii U would be a better investment.

 

What's also sad is people overestimating the Vita's graphical capability. It's worse than the PS3. ...And we're discussing about porting over the Wii U which is quite powerful?

 

I love how we're talking about this "big boom" as if it's factually, absolutely going to happen. Remind me again when the Gamecube boomed? 

 

Oh, and regarding the handheld stuff - 

 

Developing for GBA was also much easier, cheaper, and quicker than making a full console RPG, and was it not made by a different team anyway? It was a stop-gap between the two major releases in the series.

 

DS games were, relative to everything else at the time, extremely cheap and quick to produce. The DS is also one of the highest selling consoles of all time. What works on Nintendo handhelds won't work on their consoles. It's a completely different environment with completely different rules.

 

Also, I'm not saying KH3 is going to be ported, calm down. I'm just saying a Vita Kingdom Hearts game would likely pay off far more than a WIi U game.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Discoid