General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Indigo Rush]

It's a glorified tech demo, the purpose is to show what is possible, which I think was Autosaver's point.

[super saiyan weegee]

I'm pretty sure the point is that picture gets across one of the key points of the Gamepad: Stuff happens on it, and more stuff happens on the TV.

 

At least that's what I got from it.

[JezMM]

How about Pikmin 3?  Wonderful 101?  Zombie U?

 

Mario is a platformer.  A specific kind of game.  Not every gimmick Nintendo come up with is going to compliment that specific genre, and they shouldn't force them to just because they can.

 

 

 

Platformers have always worked best with traditional controllers.  To stray too far from that without intending to make a partially non-platformer game is foolish.  You can create the most original, inventive ice-cream sundae sauce ever made but you're not gonna use it as a pizza topping just because you can.

 

 

 

I'm not saying it can't work, but to deny an awesome, traditional platformer's place in the Wii U lineup just because of the possibility that it can work is silly, and again, fails to appreciate what the game will bring to Mario (4-player 3D platforming, and the new level design concepts only the wall climbing of Cat Mario will provide).  Especially when 4-player means whatever new innovations they provide will only be immediately accessible to Player 1.

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[Sami]

It's a glorified tech demo, the purpose is to show what is possible, which I think was Autosaver's point.

 

Okay, let me put this another way - 

 

You, Indy. Personal question. You own a Wii, correct? A Gamecube? Did you have an N64? You are a Nintendo fan, but why do you buy their consoles? Is it not to play the newest Mario, Zelda, and whatever other games they have that are really stellar, well designed games like Star Fox and Metroid Prime? 

 

How does the Gamepad benefit these games? So far, all I'm seeing is menu integration. Rayman Legends has some unique and cool things going for it, but what about Nintendo's output? So far we've got a second player making platforms pop up on screen (useless when you're playing alone) and a horn button. 

 

Yes, it can function in creative ways on its own, but how does it function in regards to the games one would actually buy the system for?

 

Essentially, I'm asking for Skyward Sword, rather than Wii Sports swordfighting. Show me in a "real game" why the Gamepad is unique and cool, not in a minigame collection specifically built around it.

[RK64]

Then maybe Nintendo should have thought of that before banking on a controller that doesn't properly complement their biggest flagship franchise - if the face of their entire company can't demonstrate why their new gimmick is worth it, then the Wii U has a serious problem on its hands.

 

This is the situation they're in now.

 

This isn't the time to see what would have worked in the past and simply touch up the old experiences - this is the time to reinvent the wheel in a way that does compliment the Gamepad. If it's a challenge to make it work, then that's a challenge Nintendo has to take. EAD is comprised of some of the most brilliant, creative people in this industry. If they can't find a way to really make this new system special... then what was the point of all these new features?

 

If the game that is the virtual face of your company can't demonstrate why your new product is unique and special, then that's a very extreme problem.

 

So what should they do? Keep Mario the same to keep things from changing too much? Or really put their minds to work to make it work in a way that shows off the benefits of the Wii U and why it's a great console?

 

 

Edit - Lol, forgot to reply to your edit. The fact that Knack is a new IP is completely irrelevant. If the premiere, flagship platformer that shows off what the Wii U can do has to be a new IP... then why on earth did they not develop one? Nintendo is the king of platforms, are they not? Is it not at all ironic that their new controller and new online community add no benefit whatsoever to their flagship platformers?

 

You bought up a great point; outside of Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3 (the GamePad as a map), Rayman Legends (Murphy stuff), ZombiU and it being used for smaller things like a map and such, there's no game on Wii U that proves that the gamepad is useful to games. I thought about this with the DS too, until I played Kirby's Canvas Curse and Star Fox Command. Kirby has such wonderful controls with the styles and the fact they were able to mix classic Kirby mechanics (copy abilities) along with the new gameplay so well really impressed me and showed me that traditional games could work on DS very well with the touch screen. Star Fox (with the touch screen-controlled movements) also proved this as well.

 

With the Wii U, there is no game that does this and the two examples of this type of thing, come from a failed launch tittle and a Rayman game that was pushed onto other platforms. Nintendo themselves still have to prove to us that the gamepad could be used in great ways and even if Nintendo Land does exactly this, it isn't a traditional game, its a mini game collection ala Wii Sports aimed to sell the system. It isn't fair to say there not trying, as Pikmin 3's map usage, Wonderful 101 touch screen-enabled transformation switching, Mario Bros U's block planting thing and 3d Worlds gyro-enabled camera are all cases of them using the gamepad in cool ways, but don't really define the device.

 

Miyamotto is working on a new IP and with the Galaxy 2 team making 3d World, that also leaves the Galaxy 1 team currently working on another 3d Mario (kinda like how we got two galaxy games on Wii), so there will be games that prove the gamepads importance I hope .

[Sami]

How about Pikmin 3?  Wonderful 101?  Zombie U?

 

Mario is a platformer.  A specific kind of game.  Not every gimmick Nintendo come up with is going to compliment that specific genre, and they shouldn't force them to just because they can.

 

 

 

Platformers have always worked best with traditional controllers.  To stray too far from that without intending to make a partially non-platformer game is foolish.  You can create the most original, inventive ice-cream sundae sauce ever made but you're not gonna use it as a pizza topping just because you can.

 

 

 

I'm not saying it can't work, but to deny an awesome, traditional platformer's place in the Wii U lineup just because of the possibility that it can work is silly, and again, fails to appreciate what the game will bring to Mario (4-player 3D platforming, and the new level design concepts only the wall climbing of Cat Mario will provide).

 

Those three games are very good examples, yes. What I'm asking for is more of that. Really, Nintendo's big lineup should be showing how the Wii U is new and cool. Those three games show this, yet their appeal is unfortunately rather limited. None of these are flagship, AAA Nintendo titles like your Marios and Zeldas are. Those are the games everyone sees, those are the games that are marketed to hell and beyond, and those are the games that absolutely need to show off the Wii U's new features.

 

No, not every game needs to be forced to implement the Gamepad, but when you're marketing a game as one of the biggest ones on your system and as the shining star of your holiday lineup... it needs to show these things off. 

 

If the Gamepad is adding an extra $150 to the price of this system, I want to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is a very large benefit to the games that I buy these systems to play. 

 

As a side note, it's also extremely troublesome for Nintendo that their lineup consists so heavily of platformers, the genre that you yourself just said doesn't mesh with the Gamepad at all. What the hell were they thinking when they invested so heavily in the genre that makes me think the Gamepad isn't useful?

[Indigo Rush]

You, Indy. Personal question. You own a Wii, correct? A Gamecube? Did you have an N64? You are a Nintendo fan, but why do you buy their consoles? Is it not to play the newest Mario, Zelda, and whatever other games they have that are really stellar, well designed games like Star Fox and Metroid Prime? 

 

How does the Gamepad benefit these games? So far, all I'm seeing is menu integration. Rayman Legends has some unique and cool things going for it, but what about Nintendo's output? So far we've got a second player making platforms pop up on screen (useless when you're playing alone) and a horn button. 

 

Yes, it can function in creative ways on its own, but how does it function in regards to the games one would actually buy the system for?

 

Essentially, I'm asking for Skyward Sword, rather than Wii Sports swordfighting. Show me in a "real game" why the Gamepad is unique and cool, not in a minigame collection specifically built around it.

 

I understand your point, and I do not disagree with your assertion - but I still think that there could be a way to implement this into a deeper game mechanic than just some minigame or menu fare.

 

Admittedly, though, I can't think of any. 

[JezMM]

I would welcome a Mario game that uses the Gamepad with open arms, but unless it can mesh with the gameplay flawlessly (and note that I am particular about this - for example, I think Sunshine is an example of this not happening, as the pressure sensitive triggers were only useful when it came to basic spraying actions, a seperate additional form of action gameplay - not the platforming-related attachments), a platforming Mario game is not the Mario game for it.

 

Clearly they would have tried various things.  Maybe they have found a concept but it needs refining, or they decided it didn't mesh with platforming, and are going on to develop it outside of the platforming series for now.

 

 

 

I am excited to see what new titles Nintendo put out that make heavy use of the Gamepad - we've already seen some and we will see more. But the idea that every game must use these features is not one I agree with.

 

Kirby Canvas Curse was awesome, but so was Squeak Squad.  They were also two very different games, even though they were both platformers.  I would have hated for the traditional styled Squeak Squad to have not existed just because it didn't use the touch screen.  I would hate to see a 100% gimmicky Mario platformer to be the first HD 4-player co-op one.

 

 

Remember what a hoot Sonic and the Secret Rings was for trying to 100% implement every facet of the new technology into the established genre?  Sometimes it's okay to play it safe and deliver a traditional game on new hardware, and leave the genres that REALLY gel with that new hardware to do something new, like Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 have.

 

 

Tell me... would you have played a whole game of Rayman Legends' Murfy gameplay and still felt like it fit in as a main series Rayman title?

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[Milo]

I kinda feel bad for Mario 3D World, the Galaxy duology have set the bar so damn high no Mario game following immediately afterwards could hardly hope to compete unless it was a third entry to the Galaxy series-and even then it would likely be derided for being just that -a third Mario Galaxy game- rather than a new game. .-.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Yeow

[Autosaver]

How does the Gamepad benefit these games? So far, all I'm seeing is menu integration.

 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

One feature I love about the tablet controller is asymettrical multiplayer and off-play TV.

 

If the controller didn't exist, we wouldn't have these two features. Would you sacrifice the ability to have a new world of gameplay and play-in-your-bed games for a cheaper controller?

Let alone the fact that it would completely devalue the product as doing nothing but being an HD Wii. Do you REALLY want Wii Remote controls in every game? Do you just want Xbox 360 ports? I want fresh new experiences, something that has never been done before. I want Nintendo to be Nintendo - they continue to innovate (please PLEASE do not try to nitpick this word) and provide fresh experiences.

 

Splitscreen without seeing each other's screen.

 

Luigi's Mansion where one player is the ghost and everyone else is a Mario character.

 

Touch screen gameplay and drawing. Use your tablet as a drawing tablet! Art Academy Wii U.

Credit:

 

Game & Wario where one player moves around in a busy area (ie: NYC) while the gamepad player has to use clues to find out which one is him.

 

Tabletop minigames

 

ZombiU's asymmetrical versus mode - One player plays a FPS and the other sets Zombis.

 

AND MORE

 

Pikmin 3 where the Gamepad can be used to send different squads to different areas.

Convenient maps and inventory screens that no longer need me to pause and or allow a bigger map.

HUDs that no longer take up the screen and instead appear on the Gamepad.

Scribblenauts - Have the ability to draw and have keyboard input. Only available on PC and Wii U.

Chess where each player has their own playing field.

Uno where you could pass the pad to each player to not reveal your cards.

Five Player native support (Most consoles don't go past 4 - Most likely due to limited screen space).

 

 

Sacrifice ALL of this (and so many more potential examples) so the console can be slightly cheaper? Xbox 360 with Motion Controls over Wii U and new tablet controller experiences? Hmm

Edit: Lol I posted twice, cleaned it up.

definately a bunch of great examples sutosaver, definately make a good point

[Thrippa]

You bought up a great point; outside of Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3 (the GamePad as a map), Rayman Legends (Murphy stuff), ZombiU and it being used for smaller things like a map and such, there's no game on Wii U that proves that the gamepad is useful to games.

 

 

 

LEGO City has you using the controller as a map at times, but it also is used as a scanner (that can look 360 degrees, not just what's on the TV screen), as a communications device, as a camera, and some minor uses.  I consider that game to show the Gamepad as useful in a number of ways. 

 

 

If they'd put out a new Endless Ocean, the Gamepad would be ideal, as the previous games also had scanners, trackers, photography and in-game reference books that would work much better and more smoothly if they didn't require taking over the entire screen.  (Sharks, for instance, don't show up on a treasure scanner, so being able to scan with one eye on the TV screen for trouble would be very nice.)  Online voice chat for co-op games could be revised to use the camera. 

[RK64]

LEGO City has you using the controller as a map at times, but it also is used as a scanner (that can look 360 degrees, not just what's on the TV screen), as a communications device, as a camera, and some minor uses.  I consider that game to show the Gamepad as useful in a number of ways. 

 

 

If they'd put out a new Endless Ocean, the Gamepad would be ideal, as the previous games also had scanners, trackers, photography and in-game reference books that would work much better and more smoothly if they didn't require taking over the entire screen.  (Sharks, for instance, don't show up on a treasure scanner, so being able to scan with one eye on the TV screen for trouble would be very nice.)  Online voice chat for co-op games could be revised to use the camera. 

 

Opps forgot to mention Lego City among my examples; one of the 1st party Wii U games that makes solid use of the controller

 

An Endless Ocean game on Wii U would be, quite interesting; gyro-enabled swimming (with it having an optional first person perspective), taking pictures ala Pokémon Snap, beautiful graphics (those games were really peaceful on Wii ) and HUD elements on Gamepad would all be great fits for the game if it ever comes to Wii U .

[Autosaver]

Mighty Switch Force 2 hitting Wii U this October

[Soniman]

YES! Gonna get that for sure.

[Sami]

Splitscreen without seeing each other's screen.

 

I've already mentioned this - multiplayer is nice, but what does it do to add to the game's single player experience? You know, the actual meat of the game?

 

It's ironic that you list Lost World as a game, that makes good use of the pad, seeing as how the single player mode hardly uses it at all, and that's the mode that actually matters.

 

Luigi's Mansion where one player is the ghost and everyone else is a Mario character.

 

 

Touch screen gameplay and drawing. Use your tablet as a drawing tablet! Art Academy Wii U.

Credit: 

 

Okay, cool. You can draw on it. Explain to me how this is essential to the games I want to play and why I should care.

 

Game & Wario where one player moves around in a busy area (ie: NYC) while the gamepad player has to use clues to find out which one is him.

 

The strongest vibe I'm starting to get from this post is that the Gamepad is better for minigames than the traditional games I actually want to play.

 

Tabletop minigames

 

 

ZombiU's asymmetrical versus mode - One player plays a FPS and the other sets Zombis.

 

Whoo hoo, more local multiplayer.

 

Though I will give Zombie U props for being good in other ways.

 

AND MORE

 

Do you work for Nintendo? You sound like a commercial.

 

Pikmin 3 where the Gamepad can be used to send different squads to different areas.

 

Actually good use of it as well, though RTS is pretty much the only genre that seems to mesh fantastically for the Gamepad, and it isn't really a super popular genre on consoles.

 

Convenient maps and inventory screens that no longer need me to pause and or allow a bigger map.

HUDs that no longer take up the screen and instead appear on the Gamepad.

 

Neat, but I'm not paying anything more five dollars to save me from a minor inconvenience.

 

Scribblenauts - Have the ability to draw and have keyboard input. Only available on PC and Wii U.

 

... Isn't it only available on PC and Wii U? 3DS kept that stuff out because of tech limitations, didn't it? Besides, I could always just plug a keyboard into my PS3 or 360. I've done it before.

 

Chess where each player has their own playing field.

Uno where you could pass the pad to each player to not reveal your cards.

 

You're pretty much making my point for me now.

 

Five Player native support (Most consoles don't go past 4 - Most likely due to limited screen space).

 

PS3 has seven.

 

Sacrifice ALL of this (and so many more potential examples) so the console can be slightly cheaper? Xbox 360 with Motion Controls over Wii U and new tablet controller experiences? Hmm

 

If you want to pay hundreds of dollars to play Uno, go right ahead. But Wii U sales tell me not many people are on your side with that one.

[Autosaver]

Do you work for Nintendo? You sound like a commercial.

 

I thought it was quite obvious.

[\Lennox]

Honestly, I only bought a PS3 and a Vita just to play Square Enix and SEGA games. Nintendo is really for everything else, and now that the next few Sonic games are coming out on the Wii U...

 

All we need is a Chronophantasma port and I will play the Wii U to all hell.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Lennox

[PSI Wind]

Either way, the Wii U has the best browser on any console period.

[SkyLlama]

Either way, the Wii U has the best browser on any console period.

 

After using it some today it's almost as good as some of the tablet browsers I've used. No doubt it's the best right now.

[Zaysho]

Weighing in on the whole Gamepad thing for a moment... I can honestly say I was never that warm to the idea, but in practice, I don't hate it either. The biggest draw is probably Off-TV play, but it loses some appeal for me since it's not even backwards compatible with Wii games. I know that sounds like a dumb complaint, but when you consider the buttons are mapped the same way as the previous system's Classic Controller AND it has that little sensor at the top (I understand the sensor can be used with the Wii Remote for games like Pikmin 3, though I haven't played that one myself yet), it seems like something that should've been given more consideration.

 

I kinda have mixed feelings on the Gamepad screen featuring HUDs/maps too; it's great in the sense that it doesn't clutter the screen, and I also like easy menu access... but, I find it to be really distracting too. Having played the demo for Sonic & All-Stars Racing, I find I don't even have any use for that second screen to look at the map/current position simply because I'm trying to focus on what's going on on the track as I'm playing. I shouldn't have to pause and look down to see that. It's not like playing on a DS, for me, where the two screens are next to each other and can be referenced really quickly and easily. There's just too much of a separation between the Gamepad screen and the main screen, for me.

 

I will give credit to The Wonderful 101 for trying to get the most use out of that second screen though. It offers the menus and a quick cheat sheet for drawing different character powers, but it also offers a second screen so you can see what's going on in two places at once. There's a puzzle in the demo where you have to unlock a door with a combination, so one screen shows the outside with the combination and the other screen allows you to play inside the building and turn the locks. So far, that's the most useful I've seen with the Gamepad, minor as it may be.

 

The Gamepad's got its pros and cons, and while I think there's some potential, I kinda wonder if developers will bother to get as much mileage out of it.

[KrazyBean]

Either way, the Wii U has the best browser on any console period.

 

Yeah, we should all agree on this.

[Autosaver]

Kamiya interested on Okami Wii U sequel

 

Drawing using the touch screen instead of an analog stick/wii remote.

 

[KrazyBean]

Kamiya interested on Okami Wii U sequel

 

Drawing using the touch screen instead of an analog stick/wii remote.

 

 

HOLY CRAP. I approve.

 

Wind Waker HD Story Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzKU4TjaFLM

 

The graphics are so...wow.

Edited August 31, 2013 by KrazyBean

[Soniman]

Just because he's interested doesn't mean it's gonna happen, since Capcom still owns the rights and all.