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General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)


Tatsumaki

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I think GameCube controllers are shit, so any point about lack of support in regards to Smash Bros. is laughable to me. Especially given all of the alternatives such as the Wii classic controller, the Wii U pro controller and even the fucking GamePad itself which, while a little on the heavy side, is plenty comfortable on its own.

 

I also don't agree that the Wii U is a bad console. The Wii is a shitty console that was only justified by its library of games. My only real issue with the Wii U is that it's the console that should have came out in 2006 rather than in 2012. It also has a really, really stupid name.

 

Off-TV play is a great feature and easily my favorite thing about it, games look great visually on it and it has far better online functionality than the fucking outdated Wii console. There are a number of issues surrounding the Wii U including but not limited to Nintendo's ignorance but that doesn't really have anything to do with the console itself.

 

Doesn't that make that a terrible console? If the PS3 was launched today against the XONE with the price of $499, would you buy it?

 

Maybe the tablet is comfy for you guys. But when I held it, it wasn't all that comfy. 

 

And I'm not comparing the Wii U to the Wii. Of course the Wii U is miles superior against it, in terms of functionality. I'm comparing it against its competition and while XONE has that crappy Kinect, the hardware and the controller are good. XONE even had bad press, and they are STILL gaining sales towards the Wii U.

 

 

Yup, it's been there from the very beginning. You can use the Classic Controller and Controller Pro as well to navigate the home menu.

 

So I was lied to then. I apologize for saying that then.

 

===

 

Also to those saying it's "bad marketing" "no ads for it"...it's been out for over a year, I've seen Nintendo put ads for Wii U on TV and even websites, they have made a tour, the Wii U is in stores for quite a long while...there are Wii Us to try out in Target, Walmart and GameStop...

 

What else can Nintendo do? Sony's PS4 wasn't even out in stores to try out and already have 1 million to their name. XONE in the UK is close to beating Wii U sales in the UK already.

 

None of these consoles don't have IMO good launch titles and they are slapping Wii U already.

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If the PS3 was launched today against the XONE with the price of $499, would you buy it?

The fact that the Wii U launched at $350 already makes this an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

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Maybe the tablet is comfy for you guys.

It's large, the buttons are accessible, and it has ridges for your hands. One of the comfiest controllers I've used. It's probably mainly the large factor.

 

Also to those saying it's "bad marketing" "no ads for it"...it's been out for over a year, I've seen Nintendo put ads for Wii U on TV and even websites, they have made a tour, the Wii U is in stores for quite a long while...there are Wii Us to try out in Target, Walmart and GameStop...

None of that really conflicts with bad marketing.

 

Bad marketing is that they never bothered explaining the console. They're JUST not too long ago trying to explain that it's an 'upgrade' and you need to buy it. Before, it looked like a $350 controller for your Wii system.

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I agree with Ming Ming on this. The problem with the Wii U is that its dated architecture keeps it from having any real market appeal. It aimed to appeal to everyone, but that lack of focus in the design process was what ultimately killed its chances of success.

Just think of the demographics in the market for a new console -

- Gamers. People who play all sorts of games; console allegiance aside, it is a major detractor for this group that the big third party games will either not come to Wii U at all, or get a vastly inferior version.

The following example is anecdotal, but it does apply - Need for Speed Rivals is a fun game. I'm not a huge racer guy, but I played it on PS4, had a great time, and decided to buy it when I have money. The problem is... that game isn't coming to Wii U. What does that say to consumers? A console that's just a year old now isn't getting the newest installment in a major franchise published by one of the single biggest publishers in the entire industry? The same applies to Battlefield 4.

EA might be a shitty company with awful practices, but their games are major, and knowing they won't be on Wii U is a huge deal.

Gamers interested in playing anything that isn't a Nintendo exclusive are better off buying something else. That's a problem that Nintendo can't solve - the system is simply too weak to make ports easy and cheap. Developers have to go out of their way to develop for it, and that will do nothing but hurt it more and more as time goes by.

Casuals - They don't care. The gamepad was a poor attempt at capturing the casual audience again, and it failed. It isn't a Wiimote and never will be, and now only serves to jack up the price of the system, which leads to the next issue...

"Cheap Alternative" - It's weaker and cheaper than the competition, so maybe it'd appeal to people looking to buy a console on the cheap, right? Parents wanting something cheaper for the kids? That worked for the Wii, but unfortunately not anymore - the PS3 and 360 are both very established brands, have vast libraries stronger than all three of the new consoles, and will continue to receive new third party games for the next one to two years.

That's to say nothing of the Vita TV and 3DS, of course.

Nintendo fans - This, really, is the only group left. This is the group that bought the Gamecube, hence the predictions that the Wii U will reach around those sales at the most. Unfortunately, after an entire year's opportunity, only now is it starting to get any real traction in this category. That being said, the only big names that fit this category are Mario and Zelda off the top of my head. Other than that, nothing yet. Games are coming, yes, but for a company that champions it's first party franchises above all else... it's rather disappointing that Mario is the only one getting a major title in 2013. Oh, and Pikmin, but that's still a very niche title that isn't a system seller anyway.

I'm on my phone right now, by the way, so this is all off the top of my head. Please forgive any inaccuracies as I can't fact check right now.

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That they even needed to explain the console to begin with is indicative of a critical failure by a Nintendo which just didn't expect that the public wouldn't know or care what a Wii U even is if it didn't have a 2 attached to it to indicate that it is a whole new console. Man, if only they had spent a little more time figuring out a clearer name.

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The fact that the Wii U launched at $350 already makes this an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

 

Okay then $399. (because PS3 has Bluray support)

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Well the PlayStation 3 is already a less stupid name than the Wii U (and actually implies it's a new console), so throw in some competent marketing and worthwhile games and yeah.. I'd buy it even if it was overpriced. I reiterate:

 

There are a number of issues surrounding the Wii U including but not limited to Nintendo's ignorance but that doesn't really have anything to do with the console itself.

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Definitely that too. Nintendo's naming has been pretty terrible with their handheld and console. 3DS sparked so much confused "A 3D.. DS?" and Wii U "A controller for my Wii?". The fact that sales probably could've been so much more on both their handheld and console parts by naming it DS 2 or Wii 2 is just hindsight on their part.

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Well the PlayStation 3 is already a less stupid name than the Wii U (and actually implies it's a new console), so throw in some competent marketing and worthwhile games and yeah.. I'd buy it even if it was overpriced. I reiterate:

 

...and if you can only afford one console, which one would you get? PS3 (at that $399) or Wii U?

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There are too many factors that you aren't mentioning.

 

Are we talking about the PlayStation 3 library as it is now? The Wii U library as it is now? The PlayStation 3 library at launch? The Wii U library at launch?

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...and if you can only afford one console, which one would you get? PS3 (at that $399) or Wii U?

where are we going

 

PS3 $399.99 vs Wii U $299.99

 

Wii U is $100 cheaper, has stronger hardware, and comes with two games.

 

???????

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*snip*

Posted.

In regards to the name issue - it's a problem, but not the only one. If the name was the only problem it'd have sold better by now.

where are we going

PS3 $399.99 vs Wii U $299.99

Wii U is $100 cheaper, has stronger hardware, and comes with two games.

???????

Yeah, I have no idea where that analogy is going lol.

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I really do get tired of the fact that it seems we are trying to say those that like this console or nintendo in general need to get with the program and buy one of the other two consoles.

 

In all honesty, a lot of people and ads I see for the other two consoles are all about guns, explosions and just in general, the same thing over and over again. It isn't appealing at all and just seems to appeal to nothing but testosterone grunting males that want to shoot things. I'm not one of those really, and the fact that seems to be all the other two consoles want to appeal to right now just bothers me. The WiiU actually is a traditional game console to me, while, xbone for example, doesn't look like one at all to me, since it tries to do so much crap at once. I just want a console that plays games. I dont care about any of these other features and I'm sure others feel the same thing. I buy these things for the games, not internet, not online gameplay, or tv and all that stuff, I just want my games and that's it.

 

This gamepad I honestly think is a much better feature than the Wiimote anyway. I'm constantly fighting with Wii games over getting the motion controls to work properly. This pad seems a lot more comfortable to be honest.

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I really do get tired of the fact that it seems we are trying to say those that like this console or nintendo in general need to get with the program and buy one of the other two consoles.

In all honesty, a lot of people and ads I see for the other two consoles are all about guns, explosions and just in general, the same thing over and over again. It isn't appealing at all and just seems to appeal to nothing but testosterone grunting males that want to shoot things. I'm not one of those really, and the fact that seems to be all the other two consoles want to appeal to right now just bothers me. The WiiU actually is a traditional game console to me, while, xbone for example, doesn't look like one at all to me, since it tries to do so much crap at once. I just want a console that plays games. I dont care about any of these other features and I'm sure others feel the same thing. I buy these things for the games, not internet, not online gameplay, or tv and all that stuff, I just want my games and that's it.

This gamepad I honestly think is a much better feature than the Wiimote anyway. I'm constantly fighting with Wii games over getting the motion controls to work properly. This pad seems a lot more comfortable to be honest.

I will give the Gamepad credit for not being a horrendous piece of shit like the Wiimote was, yeah. It's just not particularly great either.

Also if I wasn't so unfortunately used to seeing that tired, inaccurate rant about testosterone and guns I'd find it borderline offensive.

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Also if I wasn't so unfortunately used to seeing that tired, inaccurate rant about testosterone and guns I'd find it borderline offensive.

 

I don't think he was saying that it is what they are, but that's what he sees. A lot of advertising right now for both Xbox One and PS4 are focusing a bit on the mature audience so I don't think he's wrong. BF4, Call of Duty, Killzone, Dead-Rising, and Ryse came out not too long ago.

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If the PS4 and Xbone only appealed to dudebros and nobody else, why do you think the franchises on it are so successful? These "dudbros" hardly even make up a third of the gaming population, I'm starting to doubt they even exist. Maybe people like these games a lot because they're fun? Sure, Shooters are the in thing right now but before that it was colorful platformers all over the place and it wasn't a huge deal then.

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If the PS4 and Xbone only appealed to dudebros and nobody else, why do you think the franchises on it are so successful? These "dudbros" hardly even make up a third of the gaming population, I'm starting to doubt they even exist. Maybe people like these games a lot because they're fun? Sure, Shooters are the in thing right now but before that it was colorful platformers all over the place and it wasn't a huge deal then.

I don't know if it's just me, but the massive crop of platformers back then.............it seemed that even though they shared a genre, they were more unique and different from each other then today's shooters are. The problem is that devs don't do enough with the shooter genre for the most part. 

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Knack was one of the main games at the forefront of PlayStation 4 related advertisements so what the hell are you guys even talking about?

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I don't know if it's just me, but the massive crop of platformers back then.............it seemed that even though they shared a genre, they were more unique and different from each other then today's shooters are. The problem is that devs don't do enough with the shooter genre for the post part. 

 

There were a lot of shitty bland ripoff Platformers back then. People just don't remember them because they were bland shitty ripoffs.

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While I hope Nintendo's next system is more...smarter so to speak (having hardware similar to next Sony and Microsoft systems, strong 3rd party support, unififed account system, VC games shared between Nintendo systems ala PSP and PS1 compatablity with PSP/PSV/PS3, ect), the Wii U as it stands is a solid second system. It already has a good line up of exclusive games that are almost all great (with the exception of Lost World, with that being good but a bit flawed in some spots), the ONLY next gen system with backwards compatablity with it being able to play Wii games (and due to that also play WiiWare and VC games), and some of its new features are quite smart (the gamepad has potential to be great with games and MiiVerse looks to be a excellent messaging system :)).

 

The issue is that...for 299, you just cannot stick with the Wii U. That was the issue with the Wii, with many great third party games skipping the platform due to real excuses (weaker hardware and lacking controls)....and the Wii U is suffering from that exact issue once the cross-gen games start dwindling, making huge 3rd party games like Assassins Creed and COD miss the platform all together. I would love to get a Wii U for Lost World and 3d World, but I cannot just get it until I get a PS4 first, and with the Wii U not being cheap enough (the price point of the Wii; 249.99), its just not a great buy in the long run.

 

But for the short term and if you ARE getting a PS4/X1 in the future, then the Wii U is a wonderful system to pick up :). I don't think its a bad system, but just like the Vita, it just needs that something to pick it up to greatness, which Nintendo did with the 3ds not to long ago :).

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I don't think he was saying that it is what they are, but that's what he sees. A lot of advertising right now for both Xbox One and PS4 are focusing a bit on the mature audience so I don't think he's wrong. BF4, Call of Duty, Killzone, Dead-Rising, and Ryse came out not too long ago.

 

That's pretty much yeah what I was saying. When you look at the difference between Nintendo commercials and ps4 and xbone commercials and advertising, that is what you see. The nintendo commercials actually look to be showing you a video game console with games that kids and people of all ages want to play.

 

When you see the other two consoles commercials, they are all explosions, shooting, and young college student age people yelling about killing, shooting and blowing up stuff and such like that. They don't even really talk about the consoles that much, other than show you a bunch of stuff blowing up or shooting things all to pieces.

 

I don't mean to stereotype the people that play those consoles, but the advertising pretty much are feeding the stereotype a lot more than I may be.

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Knack was one of the main games at the forefront of PlayStation 4 related advertisements so what the hell are you guys even talking about?

WATCH_DOGS was too, especially before the delay.

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Mario games are 30% off at the moment.

 

I never played Super Mario World or Super Mario Land. Time to pick them up.

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That's pretty much yeah what I was saying. When you look at the difference between Nintendo commercials and ps4 and xbone commercials and advertising, that is what you see. The nintendo commercials actually look to be showing you a video game console with games that kids and people of all ages want to play.

When you see the other two consoles commercials, they are all explosions, shooting, and young college student age people yelling about killing, shooting and blowing up stuff and such like that. They don't even really talk about the consoles that much, other than show you a bunch of stuff blowing up or shooting things all to pieces.

I don't mean to stereotype the people that play those consoles, but the advertising pretty much are feeding the stereotype a lot more than I may be.

No.

http://youtu.be/wZkMdi3XBhw

This needs to stop being brought up as an issue, because it's not.

The Wii U's problem is one that's almost entirely based on on blanket issue which Sony's very own Yoshida considered the major problem with the Wii U, that being that Nintendo completely botched conveying the message of the Wii U.

Even some of the most anti-consumer products out there are able to find a sustainable market because they offer something the competitors don't. It's because there is a clear message proposed with every product. Wii itself was perhaps the most understandable console ever made and the message was clear - this is a console that brings your family together with a revolutionary control method that changes everything. Going into this gen the PS4 had the best message possible, that their console is one for the gamers. When there was any concern of anti-consumer practices, they debunked them quick and effectively. Even Xbox One out of all consoles, which had floundered a lot with conveying its very own message, managed to salvage itself before launch and is actually selling well because it clearly appeals to the consumer even though five months ago it'd be laughed out of the E3 convention.

But with the Wii U, Nintendo's just been too coy with everything involved. This isn't just a marketing issue; the library has often been called into question bringing out core franchises despite there being no target demographic in mind, the relationships between other developers are rock bottom and overall there are just way too many hoops to go through in order to explain why its a valuable purchase. Even if it's just anecdotal evidence, most people who have actually played the Wii U would vouch for it's quality rather than not, so why is it supposedly an "unappealing" product? Mostly cause Nintendo treats it this way. They're not making it clear at all who the console is for, what it's strengths are and are also expecting too much from the consumer, which is something you ought to never do, at all.

If Nintendo can recoup in time for 2014's output and make a continuous, focused message to the audience about the Wii U in terms of games, management, audience relations and public perception then there is a chance for the Wii U yet to find it's audience, because this insistence that it's an unappealing product is a weak excuse supporting one's own expectation. But it's really a bit too late in at this point to hope that it has a profound impact because this isn't an isolated incident but over a decade of hubris, incompetence and the worst qualities inhabiting NCL finally hitting a breaking point.

And for fucks sake people need to stop pretending that "casuals" are a bunch of magpies who get distracted by anything shiny.

That's a good point, but I still have to point out that what you said there is an issue for the Wii U as well - what does it offer that the competitors don't?

Ultimately, this is the unifying problem that everything else applies to. It doesn't do third party games, it doesn't do graphics, it doesn't do social media integration, and so forth.

The only things it offers that the competition doesn't are touch controls and Nintendo games, both of which lack any pull right now. Maybe later, sure, but not for a few months at the least, by which point the opposition will only be stronger.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that it can't easily receive third party ports, and that's the fault of dated hardware.

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