General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Jolt_TH]

Meh, I can see the Wii U has a lot of problem, the xbone and ps4 are genuinely better consoles, but for what I want I want to get one, I'm not a huge fan of FPS's and I like all the Nintendo IP's, throw in the chance I only really get to play it about an hour or so a night if I'm lucky and I think the Wii U will be fine for me.

Maybe they should release a handheld next gen that is like a smaller gamepad but it can connect to the TV, sorta like reverse off-TV play (on-TV play?)

Heck I'd love to get a 360 for some certain games but generally I much prefer the Nintendo IP's, not that there isn't anything wrong with the Xbox and Playstation ones

[Carbo]

That's a good point, but I still have to point out that what you said there is an issue for the Wii U as well - what does it offer that the competitors don't?

Ultimately, this is the unifying problem that everything else applies to. It doesn't do third party games, it doesn't do graphics, it doesn't do social media integration, and so forth.

The only things it offers that the competition doesn't are touch controls and Nintendo games, both of which lack any pull right now. Maybe later, sure, but not for a few months at the least, by which point the opposition will only be stronger.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that it can't easily receive third party ports, and that's the fault of dated hardware.

There's obviously always going to be some products that will outsell others based on the amount of value one can provide relative to price as well but for a lot of reasons I don't consider the Wii U to be getting out the most of what it can based on what is actually there. The key push for this holiday season that Nintendo took into account was the exclusives being just one key appeal but alone it generally needs more than that, and it has. A social community where users can connect and interact, a thriving marketplace, all the basic functions one can expect from a current-day console, off-TV Play, asymmetric game play, unique games, applications, social aspects and overall a cheap alternative that, despite Nintendo's insistence of wanting to appeal the hardcore, is still largely a product that has a better chance at appealing to families and kids.

It's no Wii that's for sure. But it's competent enough offering experiences that are not possible to do on other consoles which is something that has fallen to the complete wayside, and for a company that flourished in the wake of the previous generation you would expect these features and the console's target in general to be crystal clear.

[Brad]

Wii U is the only console, much like its predecessor, that tried to do something very different this generation. Though it lacks the specs of the competition, Nintendo can still make it a success with the right marketing. Like Carbo said it's terribly unfocused at the moment and the game line up really hasn't stepped up much since launch. Hopefully the addition of Smash Bros and Mario Kart will be a massive help.

 

Nintendo literally needs to take their established audience with Wii and prove to them the Wii U can provide just as much fun. Not only is it the cheapest next gen console around it's also the best for family (as they normally are) and to have a general blast with others. 

[Sami]

Upon thinking about it, the extent to which the "well Nintendo is marketed for everyone~ whereas all the others are all "MANLY TESTOSTERONE VIOLENCE GRAH" statement only becomes more and more ridiculous.

I haven't kept up with the Xbox's ads, but I recall there were several showing a bunch of people getting together and watching football? The biggest selling point of the console itself is that it's aiming to be a multimedia center, showing off movies, music, and the like. The Xbox's "thing" is that it has something for everyone; games for the gamer, movies for the movie guy, and TV for everyone else, and that's what the commercials convey.

That may not appeal to you, and that's fine (doesn't appeal to me either), but describing it the way you did is completely inaccurate.

Playstation's banking heavier on the nostalgia factor, and considering how long the brand has been around I think it's fair to do so. Many of the ads show young college-age people hanging out and playing games together (sans the Taco Bell one, which was more like what you describes). There was the "For the Players" (I think that was the name?) one that had that infamous Crash Bandicoot street sign that featured a ton of Playstation franchises both old and new.

Playstation's marketing is all about being a game console for gamers. The people featured in the commercials are young adults playing video games, and that's the message that Sony has been very clearly delivering for months now.

Both of them clearly demonstrate what their new console is about and show off its features.

Sony has a lot of focus on it's established franchises and the consoles new social media integration, as well as the ecosystem they've created with the synergy between the PS4, Vita, Vita TV, and smartphone app.

Microsoft puts the extra multimedia features at the forefront and shows that off well.

Nintendo's ads have been mostly about family and kids playing together with their parents, with many ads showing kids excited to play the newest Mario. ... Yet they wonder why they more not catching the wider teenage/young adult demographic? There haven't been many ads at all, and the ones that do exist just range from mediocre to decent while still failing to get any appeal broader than "play it with your kids". People like us know that there are fun games for college students to play on their own like Mario and Zelda, yes, but do the commercials indicate that? I've only seen ads of kids playing, and as a result I don't think it'd be a terrible stretch to just assume that it's a console for kids if you didn't know any better.

[Swiss]

While I agree that Nintendo's dealt with the Wii U in a downright baffling way, none of the problems of 'no 3rd-party support' or 'marketing failure' bother me in the slightest since, as with every Nintendo console I've owned in my lifetime, I bought the Wii U to play Nintendo games (and the odd exclusive ala Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2 etc.). AAA non-Nintendo titles, I would happily/preferably play on another console. 

 

Sure, none of these do too much for the general sales figures and public appreciation of the console but in the 5 days I've had mine I haven't been able to put the thing down! It's a wonderful piece of kit and some of the game (3D World especially) look just as visually pleasing as some Xbox One and PS4 do. The Gamepad is incredibly comfortable and off-screen play is an excellent addition. I know this is all off the current topic of discussion but I thought I'd just share my early thoughts!

[Sami]

Wii U is the only console, much like its predecessor, that tried to do something very different this generation.

I see this tossed around a lot, yet I don't really understand why. What does the Wii U really do that makes it so supposedly unique and creative? A new controller? Both of the competitors have dual screen functionality, so even that's not as huge a deal as it's made out to be, and even then, it's not a new feature either. I'm not seeing anything that really differentiates it from the DS' functionality in-game. Off-TV Play is neat, but Nintendo's not the only one doing it. So far, hardly any games have done anything with the touchscreen in-game that really sets it apart from a traditional controller. For the sake of comparison, the touchpad on the Dualshock 4 doesn't offer anything extraordinary either... but it's not the focus of the console. Ultimately, the gamepad is a nice perk in favor of the Wii U, but not one that justifies that spike in price that it needs to turn a profit for Nintendo. Miiverse? I guess? The other two are heavily integrated into Facebook and Twitter, and there's a lot of social stuff integrated into the UI there, too. Miiverse is nice, yes, but hardly anything that would warrant calling the system the "only one that tries something different". Feel free to point out anything I might be forgetting, of course, but all I see that really sets it apart in a meaningful way is the Nintendo exclusives, which is hardly anything new for Nintendo consoles.

[Indigo Rush]

Nintendo could easily come up with an alternative commercial for the Wii U to target the teenager/young adult demographic with Mario and Zelda alone.

 

Here, lemme pitch this to y'all: Two young college students are rooming together in a small apartment, and one beckons to the other,

 

"Hey, want to help me out with this Green Star?" Person 1 is playing Mario 3D World. Cut to his roommate, Person 2,

 

"Oh... no thanks. That game's for kids." Person 2 rolls his eyes, looks at his phone/device, hearing audible gunshots, implying him playing a "mature" game.

 

"Heh, suit yourself, 'Person 2.'" Person 2 sits next to Person 1 on the couch while playing his mobile FPS. As they're both playing, Person 2 keeps glancing up to the TV screen, looking a bit more anxious each time. Meanwhile, Person 1 is just sitting there, straight-faced, cracking the occasional smile as he finally gets the Green Star on his own. 

 

Person 2 cracks, "I could have gotten that quicker than you," glancing over to Person 1, they exchange a look. Person 1 smiles,

 

"Prove it," and he hands the gamepad to Person 2. At this point, we see both of them playing Mario and having a few laughs, then the screen fades to them playing another game (possibly Zelda or Wonderful 101), and finally Call of Duty Ghost. After they finish a match, Person 2 looks over to Person 1,

 

"Can we play Mario again?"

 

White text over them looking at each other, 

 

"Wii U, not just for kids"

---

 

Or something like that.

 

I'm just spit-ballin' here, at the very least it's better than having a group of little kids scheming about how to get their mommies and daddies to buy them a Wii U.

[Brad]

I see this tossed around a lot, yet I don't really understand why. What does the Wii U really do that makes it so supposedly unique and creative? A new controller? Both of the competitors have dual screen functionality, so even that's not as huge a deal as it's made out to be, and even then, it's not a new feature either. I'm not seeing anything that really differentiates it from the DS' functionality in-game. Off-TV Play is neat, but Nintendo's not the only one doing it. So far, hardly any games have done anything with the touchscreen in-game that really sets it apart from a traditional controller. For the sake of comparison, the touchpad on the Dualshock 4 doesn't offer anything extraordinary either... but it's not the focus of the console. Ultimately, the gamepad is a nice perk in favor of the Wii U, but not one that justifies that spike in price that it needs to turn a profit for Nintendo. Miiverse? I guess? The other two are heavily integrated into Facebook and Twitter, and there's a lot of social stuff integrated into the UI there, too. Miiverse is nice, yes, but hardly anything that would warrant calling the system the "only one that tries something different". Feel free to point out anything I might be forgetting, of course, but all I see that really sets it apart in a meaningful way is the Nintendo exclusives, which is hardly anything new for Nintendo consoles.

 

Well the console itself integrating the second screen idea the controller is much different than giving it as an extra accessory. Smartglass and Vita play is fine, but I'd have to buy a whole new device for it which I'm not down with. Off TV play is currently the strongest feature of it unfortunately... like you say, nobody has really found a brilliant way of integrating it in with the game. The best example I can think of is Zombi U which allows you to move things from chests to your inventory on the Gamepad whilst making the player keep a constant eye on the TV for Zombies that can approach them. I think it's almost like the 3DS - the 3D is nice, but also optional, and doesn't really change things up. I don't know if that's good or bad though...

 

I personally couldn't care much for Miiverse, but it's a nice little feature, especially for the younger gamers I guess. TVii is all well and good but I can't really talk about it since we still don't have it here in the UK... Wii U also has backward compatibility this generation unlike its predecessor which is extremely undersold considering the gigantic success and library of the Wii.

 

What Nintendo really has going for them, which they always have had, is their franchises. They just need some actual games first. All we really have so far is our mixed reception Sonic game, a HD re-release, Mario 3D World, New Super Mario Bros U, Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. And I'm not a fan of the last two either. There's not enough variety yet, neither are there enough games to sell the family fun idea.

[Sami]

Nintendo could easily come up with an alternative commercial for the Wii U to target the teenager/young adult demographic with Mario and Zelda alone.

Here, lemme pitch this to y'all: Two young college students are rooming together in a small apartment, and one beckons to the other,

"Hey, want to help me out with this Green Star?" Person 1 is playing Mario 3D World. Cut to his roommate, Person 2,

"Oh... no thanks. That game's for kids." Person 2 rolls his eyes, looks at his phone/device, hearing audible gunshots, implying him playing a "mature" game.

"Heh, suit yourself, 'Person 2.'" Person 2 sits next to Person 1 on the couch while playing his mobile FPS. As they're both playing, Person 2 keeps glancing up to the TV screen, looking a bit more anxious each time. Meanwhile, Person 1 is just sitting there, straight-faced, cracking the occasional smile as he finally gets the Green Star on his own.

Person 2 cracks, "I could have gotten that quicker than you," glancing over to Person 1, they exchange a look. Person 1 smiles,

"Prove it," and he hands the gamepad to Person 2. At this point, we see both of them playing Mario and having a few laughs, then the screen fades to them playing another game (possibly Zelda or Wonderful 101), and finally Call of Duty Ghost. After they finish a match, Person 2 looks over to Person 1,

"Can we play Mario again?"

White text over them looking at each other,

"Wii U, not just for kids"

---

Or something like that.

I'm just spit-ballin' here, at the very least it's better than having a group of little kids scheming about how to get their mommies and daddies to buy them a Wii U.

I actually really liked that.

Well the console itself integrating the second screen idea the controller is much different than giving it as an extra accessory. Smartglass and Vita play is fine, but I'd have to buy a whole new device for it which I'm not down with. Off TV play is currently the strongest feature of it unfortunately... like you say, nobody has really found a brilliant way of integrating it in with the game. The best example I can think of is Zombi U which allows you to move things from chests to your inventory on the Gamepad whilst making the player keep a constant eye on the TV for Zombies that can approach them. I think it's almost like the 3DS - the 3D is nice, but also optional, and doesn't really change things up. I don't know if that's good or bad though...

I personally couldn't care much for Miiverse, but it's a nice little feature, especially for the younger gamers I guess. TVii is all well and good but I can't really talk about it since we still don't have it here in the UK... Wii U also has backward compatibility this generation unlike its predecessor which is extremely undersold considering the gigantic success and library of the Wii.

What Nintendo really has going for them, which they always have had, is their franchises. They just need some actual games first. All we really have so far is our mixed reception Sonic game, a HD re-release, Mario 3D World, New Super Mario Bros U, Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. And I'm not a fan of the last two either. There's not enough variety yet, neither are there enough games to sell the family fun idea.

So then my point stands. The gamepad has failed to do much of worth to prove itself to really be substantial and worth the cost of entry, and I'm still left question why it's being called "the only one that tries to be different" when it's hardly doing anything really new and unique.

[Classic Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_A0OteocpI

 

This guy hits the nail on the head. nintendo will need some new ips if they want to make a profit on the wii u.

[Brad]

So then my point stands. The gamepad has failed to do much of worth to prove itself to really be substantial and worth the cost of entry, and I'm still left question why it's being called "the only one that tries to be different" when it's hardly doing anything really new and unique.

Your point stands, but so does mine - I said Wii U tried to do something different, not that it succeeded. Nintendo either needs to take advantage of the possibilities they have the Gamepad or leave it as yet another throwaway gimmick and focus on the games themselves like on 3DS. And I think worth is a non-issue here, considering you can pick up a Wii U Deluxe bundle with two/three games for a much cheaper price than any other next gen console offers.

[KrazyBean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_A0OteocpI

 

This guy hits the nail on the head. nintendo will need some new ips if they want to make a profit on the wii u.

 

Yeah I watched that about a week ago and I completely agree with him...I should've posted this then. Oh well.

[8ther]

Nintendo in general needs focus less on gimmicks and more on what Sony and MS are doing, ever their investors are begining to lose faith in them, Nintendo needs to start taking the console war more seriously.

 

Hopefully by the 9th gen, Iwata's new position as NoA CEO will change Nintendo's business direction.

[KrazyBean]

Nintendo in general needs focus less on gimmicks and more on what Sony and MS are doing, ever their investors are begining to lose faith in them, Nintendo needs to start taking the console war more seriously.

 

Hopefully by the 9th gen, Iwata's new position as NoA CEO will change Nintendo's business direction.

 

Nintendo in general needs some new blood.

[Swiss]

Just a quick question...with the Wii > Wii U System Transfer app, do you get to choose which save files/other data get transferred over or does it just empty the entire source Wii? Also, does it transfer your Shop Channel purchases so you download the games for free on the Wii U, or do I have to download every single one of my VC games to the source Wii before I make the transfer? And (last one) does every game play through the Wii menu without any issue? The Wii couldn't play most NES games on my TV when running through component so I'm hoping the HDMI connection in the Wii U fixes that.

 

I'm just trying to weigh up whether the switch is worth it!

[RK64]

Just a quick question...with the Wii > Wii U System Transfer app, do you get to choose which save files/other data get transferred over or does it just empty the entire source Wii? Also, does it transfer your Shop Channel purchases so you download the games for free on the Wii U, or do I have to download every single one of my VC games to the source Wii before I make the transfer? And (last one) does every game play through the Wii menu without any issue? The Wii couldn't play most NES games on my TV when running through component so I'm hoping the HDMI connection in the Wii U fixes that.

 

I'm just trying to weigh up whether the switch is worth it!

 

I dont own a Wii U, but from a video I saw online, it transfers all of your saves and Wii VC/WiiWare licenses over to your Wii U, and once the process is done, you put the SD card in your Wii U to copy all of that over. After that, you got to re-download you Wii VC/WiiWare games through the Wii U's Wii Mode via its Shop channel and then your all set up . The only issue is, while you can use the Gamepad as a screen for Wii Mode, you cant control the games using the Gamepads buttons, you would still have to use your Wiimote or Classic Controller to play the games. Hope this helps .

[Sami]

So I was thinking about what the perception of the Wii U was early on and thought of an interesting question -

What were your expectations of the Wii U before it was formally revealed? When all we knew was that Nintendo was making an HD console and assumed it had respectable specs, and the possibilities were endless?

Funnily enough, I recall being insanely hyped about it that E3. More than anything Microsoft and Sony were doing that year. I may or may not have posted early on in this very thread, actually. I specifically remember conversations where I jokingly hyped up "Mario AD", or "Mario Amazing Definition", as well as a new Star Fox or F-Zero showing, seeing as how sci-fi is often one of the best ways to show off technical prowess. I don't remember if there were any rumors suggesting a return to hardcore appeal at the time (I do remember Star Fox being one of the rumored Retro titles for ages before Tropical Freeze was announced).

I remember was personally really hoping for a return to the traditional design process. That is, following the industry standards like online play (and now social interaction) and utilizing them in fun and unique ways with a variety of different IPs, like Nintendo had done back in the NES, SNES, and N64 days (CDs notwithstanding of course, they did champion 3D gameplay and showed the rest if the industry how that shit was done at a time when it really mattered).

The hype was crazy back then. I'm not really making a point here or anything, I just think it'd be fun to think back on how our original expectations have held up. What did you all expect and hope for?

[RK64]

So I was thinking about what the perception of the Wii U was early on and thought of an interesting question -

What were your expectations of the Wii U before it was formally revealed? When all we knew was that Nintendo was making an HD console and assumed it had respectable specs, and the possibilities were endless?

Funnily enough, I recall being insanely hyped about it that E3. More than anything Microsoft and Sony were doing that year. I may or may not have posted early on in this very thread, actually. I specifically remember conversations where I jokingly hyped up "Mario AD", or "Mario Amazing Definition", as well as a new Star Fox or F-Zero showing, seeing as how sci-fi is often one of the best ways to show off technical prowess. I don't remember if there were any rumors suggesting a return to hardcore appeal at the time (I do remember Star Fox being one of the rumored Retro titles for ages before Tropical Freeze was announced).

I remember was personally really hoping for a return to the traditional design process. That is, following the industry standards like online play (and now social interaction) and utilizing them in fun and unique ways with a variety of different IPs, like Nintendo had done back in the NES, SNES, and N64 days (CDs notwithstanding of course, they did champion 3D gameplay and showed the rest if the industry how that shit was done at a time when it really mattered).

The hype was crazy back then. I'm not really making a point here or anything, I just think it'd be fun to think back on how our original expectations have held up. What did you all expect and hope for?

 

Honestly, I felt indifferent towards the Wii U announcement. I had a hunch that all the promises Nintendo was saying that year about strong 3rd party support and what not were all very empty. I got a PS3 around this time and built up quite a collection of games, and started care less and less about Nintendo, so I guess that doesn't help much there. I really didn't see the hype behind the Wii U when it was announced but looking back...it would have been nice for those promises to be fulfilled; Nintendo consoles being increadably powerful alongside the competitors and having strong 3rd party support so you could only get a Wii U and feel satisfied...that's a nice thought to have .

 

Still, the Wii U of today is a great system with the strongest exclusives compared to the X1 and PS4, and I can already see the system as a lovely second system many gamers will pick up over the holidays alongside their new PS4's and Xbox One's .

[Remy]

I remember was personally really hoping for a return to the traditional design process. That is, following the industry standards like online play (and now social interaction) and utilizing them in fun and unique ways with a variety of different IPs, like Nintendo had done back in the NES, SNES, and N64 days (CDs notwithstanding of course, they did champion 3D gameplay and showed the rest if the industry how that shit was done at a time when it really mattered). The hype was crazy back then. I'm not really making a point here or anything, I just think it'd be fun to think back on how our original expectations have held up. What did you all expect and hope for?

I don't really think Nintendo ever "followed industry standards".  They've had a classic tendency to resist innovations from others in favor of their own stuff. Such as...

• The N64 having a bizarre trident layout for it's 3D controller, ignoring both Sony and Sega's relatively similar designs
• The N64 continuing to use cartridges instead of optical media like the rest of the sane world 
• Totally ignoring online play apart from PSO on the gamecube
• Once again, ignoring typical controllers for the bizarre GameCube button layout
• Once again, ignoring DVD for the GCN gamedisc thingies
• DS using bizarre dual screen layout 
• Wii motion controls
• Wii U gamepad, etc, etc

I'm not old enough to talk about the NES and SNES in any detail, particularly as I grew up around a Mega Drive, but the impression I always got, is that didn't never typically gave much of a shit about anything to do with industry standards other than their own, and were more interested in pursuing their own bizarre tangents than following on someone else's example and building upon it. The 64 may have had Mario and some great games, but it was also choked out by RAM/cartridge space limitations and super complex, difficult to program for architecture.    So it was good from a game perspective via their great first party titles, but weird from a techincal perspective, despite being powerful.   in light of all that, my expectations for the Wii U were for it to be pretty much what it is. Middle powered system with interesting games held back by strange Nintendo decision making and a lack of technical power. It's very much in the lineage of the 64 > GCN > Wii especially with having a strong third party/second party lineup and little else :>

[Solkia]

So I was thinking about what the perception of the Wii U was early on and thought of an interesting question -

What were your expectations of the Wii U before it was formally revealed? When all we knew was that Nintendo was making an HD console and assumed it had respectable specs, and the possibilities were endless?

Funnily enough, I recall being insanely hyped about it that E3. More than anything Microsoft and Sony were doing that year. I may or may not have posted early on in this very thread, actually. I specifically remember conversations where I jokingly hyped up "Mario AD", or "Mario Amazing Definition", as well as a new Star Fox or F-Zero showing, seeing as how sci-fi is often one of the best ways to show off technical prowess. I don't remember if there were any rumors suggesting a return to hardcore appeal at the time (I do remember Star Fox being one of the rumored Retro titles for ages before Tropical Freeze was announced).

I remember was personally really hoping for a return to the traditional design process. That is, following the industry standards like online play (and now social interaction) and utilizing them in fun and unique ways with a variety of different IPs, like Nintendo had done back in the NES, SNES, and N64 days (CDs notwithstanding of course, they did champion 3D gameplay and showed the rest if the industry how that shit was done at a time when it really mattered).

The hype was crazy back then. I'm not really making a point here or anything, I just think it'd be fun to think back on how our original expectations have held up. What did you all expect and hope for?

 

I thought it looked fucking stupid at first. I still kind of think the tablet controller was an asinine idea with no purpose other than "just there to be there".

 

Now? I still think the tablet looks fucking stupid, and the console is even worse from an aesthetic standpoint.

 

But the controller is one of the most comfortable controllers I've used next to the Genesis launch controller.

 

But that's about it. Until the next Metroid, Star Fox (ha), or Custom Robo (HAHAHAHA!) come out, I have absolutely no reason to buy one.

 

I would say Fire Emblem but SMT x Fire Emblem sounds like the worst fucking idea I've ever heard and I doubt there's any chance in hell that I'll actually like it.

[Sami]

Oh, I was actually mostly referring to thoughts before the actual official reveal, but that works too. My initial thought regarding the reveal video was "... What the hell is this?" I vividly remember being hungry but not wanting to miss the reveal, then after seeing the first minute or so just carrying the laptop to the kitchen and occasionally glancing while making my sandwich because I wasn't interested.

Guess that hasn't really changed. Don't know if it ever will, either. But I'll probably hype up the next console just as much as I did the Wii U because I'm an idiot.

[Autosaver]

Totally ignoring online play apart from PSO on the gamecube

 

Double Dash had online.

[Junko]

Double Dash had online.

Thought it was LAN only?

[Candescence]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure the PS2 didn't really "embrace" online play all that much, either, only the Xbox had it from the start, and the PS2 also required an adapter, if I remember correctly. It was only during the previous gen that online really became standard, and by that time Nintendo had pretty much caught up by enabling online play with the DS and then the Wii, even if its implementation was, well, different.

[VO.SUPER]

(Stuff).

I guess with the NES you could argue Nintendo went with the d-pad instead of the standard joystick.

But the SNES; I'm not sure.