General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Carbo]

Zelda HD confirmed for real time.

Awesome.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Carbo

[Patticus]

They won't cost more than £100/$100; Nintendo still wants to hit the family audience as well as do something to win back the trust of the core gamers. The system itself probably won't go over $350/£300, it might be a bit under that, and I can see the controllers being about the same price as a mid-range collector's edition videogame with all the pointless pap that goes with them; so around £50-80. £100/$100 is a psychological barrier than Nintendo doesn't want to breach with its controllers.

[Detective Shadzter]

They won't cost more than £100/$100; Nintendo still wants to hit the family audience as well as do something to win back the trust of the core gamers. The system itself probably won't go over $350/£300, it might be a bit under that, and I can see the controllers being about the same price as a mid-range collector's edition videogame with all the pointless pap that goes with them; so around £50-80. £100/$100 is a psychological barrier than Nintendo doesn't want to breach with its controllers.

[Patticus]

So it comes with 4 controllers? Is that what they're saying?

[Detective Shadzter]

So it comes with 4 controllers? Is that what they're saying?

[Patticus]

It appears only one will be able to link to the console, while others will have to use Wii controllers.

[Carbo]

I just realized that the new controller will more than likely severely kneecap third party knock-offs.

[Agent York]

Extensive Zelda HD video.

[Patticus]

Thinking about it, perhaps it's a good thing that there is only one screen controller and everyone else has to use remotes, as it indicates the cost of the device in terms of price and system performance, and by default should force developers to avoid developing games that require you to spend hundreds of pounds/dollars on (extra) extras.

It'll certainly suck if the WiiU Pad breaks and you can't just buy a new one though.

I just realized that the new controller will more than likely severely kneecap third party knock-offs.

[Agent York]

How so?

[Carbo]

Not talking about games. I'm talking about the controller itself. You know, those cheap, third rate ones you'll find as alternatives for the expensive and official products? Developing this thing doesn't look nearly as simple as a Wii remote.

Besides, with the way Nintendo are setting this controller up, I don't think there's any specific reason to sell additional ones.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Carbo

[Mollfie]

Nitpicking but I dislike people writing it as Wii U. I don't like the space D=

Anyway I don't mind only having one tablet, plus have they said you CAN'T use more than one or that it only comes with one? Because the Wii comes with only one wiimote nunchuck but obviously you can buy more.

[Shaddix Leto Croft]

Nintendo on Wii U online capabilities *sorry if this has been posted

Nintendo's US boss Reggie Fils-Aime believes that Nintendo will be able to compete with its rivals online when Wii U is released in 2012.

*video on website*

In an interview with GameTrailers, Fils-Aime was asked how Wii U would compete in an online market dominated by its rivals.

"Now we've got a system that will have all of that type of capability built in," said Reggie.

Asked whether third parties will be able to create their own Wii U networks and online worlds, Fils-Aime said:

"Our approach [to online] will be a flexible one, literally taking the best of what each of our third party partners has to offer, marrying that with the best of what Nintendo does, and bringing that versus a more rigid, a more closed type of environment."

He added: "We're going to be sharing what we're doing from an online perspective over the next few days."

Watch this space...

Edited June 8, 2011 by Shaddix Leto Croft

[Scar]

So does that mean each company will have their own online system which is compatible with Nintendo's basic package?

I could see that as either pretty cool, or a massive headache.

Then again, that could not be the case at all, and I could be reading it wrong.

[Patticus]

Impressions from a guy on reddit:

I'm not gonna go into enormous detail just yet (have a ton to type up by the end of the night, and lots of footage to process) but here's the sparknotes version:

Wii U is great. It's exactly what fans have been wanting for two years now, which is a Wii HD. First and foremost, the controller is nothing spectacular, but it's completely functional, and absolutely adds to the experience. The screen itself it vibrant, with a pretty high pixel density. If I had to guess, I'd say around 200dpi... (Somewhere above a PSP, but well below an iPhone 4.) I'd say that the screen resolution is a "faux" HD screen, but technically 480p. More on that later.

It's light as hell. About as light as an original DS, or PSP. But it's sturdy. I was really concerned that a huge screen would make it more delicate... I would have no issues with tossing this controller across the room onto a bed or something. It's standard Nintendo-quality hardware.

The demos playable at E3 were pretty much shit, though. Granted, they were all attempting to showcase some "unique feature" or another. That being said, what people have to remember is this controller is far from being a "gimmicky" controller, like the Wiimote. Developers will not have to develop with motion in mind... The most standard thing devs will add will likely be a few virtual buttons, and maybe an off-screen HUD. Think about it this way: Every Wii U game will be designed to be played entirely via the controller, so there's really nothing that will absolutely require a second screen. In fact, if I had to make a blunt assumption, I'd say that every Wii U game might be playable with a Classic Controller, alone.

That brings me to the visuals. They're absolutely out of this world. Without question, the "bird" demo is on par with current PC software. The blurring and lighting were stunning, but the water effects were unreal. (Which is to say, they were absolutely realistic.) The "bird" HD Experience demo was, by and large, the most visually impressive thing I've seen at E3 so far. Furthermore, there were two camera views available simultaneously, one on the TV, one on the controller. Both looked fantastic, albeit the controller had just a BIT of compression artifacting, if you were specifically looking for it. Also, it seemed like the TV was at 60 fps while the controller was at 30 fps. Regardless, it was outstanding on both.

The Zelda HD Experience demo (which is not indicative of any future Zelda title, at all) was also extremely pretty. The player could control the lighting effects (changing it from day to night) and also change camera angles. If I recall correctly, you could shift around the analog slider to shake the camera around a bit. The Zelda demo (like all of the other demos, besides the "bird" one) had noticeable aliasing, and could very well have been running at 720p. (They wouldn't tell me.) It's not a stretch to assume that most of the demos were running at 720p, perhaps with the exception of the "bird" one. However, the sheer amount of geometry, soft shadows, and blurring effects really showed off what the console is capable of doing.

It is, without question, more powerful than the 360 and PS3. Noticeably.

Finally, let's talk about the controller, itself. The analog sliders are not traditional analog sticks. They're more like the 3DS slider, only with a wider range of motion, and a much more solid feel. I was really iffy about these at first, but after about an hour of playing around with them, I've got no more worries. I could easily play an FPS with those things. The buttons and d-pad are in marginally awkward places, but like any new controller, you'll get used to it. L1/L2 and R1/R2 were positioned properly, and the whole thing was very ergonomic. Overall, a pretty solid design.

But it is pretty fucking big. Almost as big as an iPad. (But, again, not nearly as heavy.)

Without question, this is what a vocal majority has been asking for. It's a Nintendo console that's not solely focused on motion-y gimmicks. Sure, that's what they showcased here, but the thing to take away from all of this is that the core controller functions just like the 360 and PS3 controllers, only it has a big fucking screen. In my opinion, that's kind of a plus. It'll make pooping far more enjoyable.

Ask me anything else you might want to know.

Edit: Here's a preview of the camera footage I took of the Zelda HD demo. Removed, check below

Edit 2:

(Please ignore our silly commentary. NOS was giving out free energy drinks all day.)

Edit 3: Might as well toss these here for anyone interested. Hands-on impressions of: Super Mario 3D, Mario Kart 3DS, PS Vita.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/hub8f/alright_wii_u_haters_ive_played_the_shit_out_of/

Bolded the important bit for the naysayers.

[Scar]

Well it kind of needs to be.

If it was just as good as the PS3 and 360, then Nintendo would face being a Generation behind in technology, yet again.

inb4

Nintendo fanboys who claimed that graphics aren't everything, suddenly become graphics whores.

[Patticus]

Well it kind of needs to be.

If it was just as good as the PS3 and 360, then Nintendo would face being a Generation behind in technology, yet again.

inb4

Nintendo fanboys who claimed that graphics aren't everything, suddenly become graphics whores.

Actually, I think Nintendo was right when it put its foot down on the technology race war. It's pointless and expensive for all.

[Candescence]

Actually, I think Nintendo was right when it put its foot down on the technology race war. It's pointless and expensive for all.

Agreed. Eventually, the industry is gonna have to focus more on making things cheaper and easier for developers to actually make their games (development costs are going so high it's causing stagnation), and to also focus on using technology to improve the gameplay experience rather than simply improving graphics.

For starters, the industry will eventually have to move towards voxels, as there are so many things voxels can do that polygons are simply incapable of doing (volumetric geometry, for starters, as shown by the Atomontage Engine), and it also has a side-benefit of being capable of providing insane amounts of subtle detail for environment geography that would be considered a waste of polygons in a polygon-based engine (Atomontage, again, and I've seen other voxel-based engines that have levels of visual detail that make Crysis look like total shit). Of course, being one big bunch of tiny cubes, voxels still look a bit blocky right now up-close, but that'll be fixed in time.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Masaru Daimon

[Scar]

Agreed. Eventually, the industry is gonna have to focus more on making things cheaper and easier for developers to actually make their games (development costs are going so high it's causing stagnation), and to also focus on using technology to improve the gameplay experience rather than simply improving graphics.

For starters, the industry will eventually have to move towards voxels, as there are so many things voxels can do that polygons are simply incapable of doing (volumetric geometry, for starters, as shown by the Atomontage Engine), and it also has a side-benefit of being capable of providing insane amounts of subtle detail for environment geography that would be considered a waste of polygons in a polygon-based engine (Atomontage, again, and I've seen other voxel-based engines that have levels of visual detail that make Crysis look like total shit). Of course, being one big bunch of tiny cubes, voxels still look a bit blocky right now up-close, but that'll be fixed in time.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Scar

[Detective Shadzter]

Nitpicking but I dislike people writing it as Wii U. I don't like the space D=

Anyway I don't mind only having one tablet, plus have they said you CAN'T use more than one or that it only comes with one? Because the Wii comes with only one wiimote nunchuck but obviously you can buy more.

[Tornado]

Not offering the controller separately is stupid. Simple as. It also completely eliminates the "OMIGOD MULTIPLAYER" fangasm that everyone was going nuts about about a month ago.

I actually already heard about this, Reggie said it not long after the conference. I myself don't really care, because it's not like upscaled previous generation games actually looked good, unless they were cel-shaded.

I dunno. I've had mixed experiences with my Triple, but the games that look better look much better.

... People were actually expecting it to upscale Wii games?

I don't see why you are so surprised that people were expecting it to do something that both the 360 and PS3 do.

Not to mention I really fail to see the point. Wii games as they are look perfectly fine on my HD TV with component cables. The difference in visual quality from upscaling would be basically marginal

Not exactly a widespread opinion, that.

Actually, I think Nintendo was right when it put its foot down on the technology race war. It's pointless and expensive for all.

For starters, the industry will eventually have to move towards voxels, as there are so many things voxels can do that polygons are simply incapable of doing (volumetric geometry, for starters, as shown by the Atomontage Engine), and it also has a side-benefit of being capable of providing insane amounts of subtle detail for environment geography that would be considered a waste of polygons in a polygon-based engine (Atomontage, again, and I've seen other voxel-based engines that have levels of visual detail that make Crysis look like total shit). Of course, being one big bunch of tiny cubes, voxels still look a bit blocky right now up-close, but that'll be fixed in time.

You've said this before, but I still see no proof that it is going to happen any time soon.

[Candescence]

Wouldn't voxel-based geometry require processing power though? Having.....well....billions, trillions, quadrillions, Pentillions, of little tiny cubes making up an environment, would surely require a shit-load of power to render at a decent framerate? Not to mention the lighting. I'm pretty those will still need to be included to bring the voxel scenery to life.

There are voxel test vids all over Youtube, the higher-detailed ones would've been done with less-than recent to more recent hardware, depending on the video and when it was made. But still, the fact that voxels can be processed at such insane levels of detail on current hardware means that processing power is not an issue, no more than it is for polygons.

Hell, storage space is more likely to be a bigger issue than processing.

You've said this before, but I still see no proof that it is going to happen any time soon.

I said eventually, and with good reason. As it stands now, the main obstacle for voxel-based rendering becoming a standard in gaming is the fact that polygon rendering is the de-facto standard as far as games go, with some exceptions in terms of specific applications (Crysis using voxels for terrain, which is basically superior to heightmaps in every conceivable way). In order to make voxels a viable option for developers, there needs to be the right SDKs and tools to allow developers to make the jump with minimal effort, and enough incentive to make the jump in the first place. It's like how Flash is most used for web games even though Java really should be, because Java was so shit back in the day that by the time they made it good, Flash was the standard, to the chargin of everyone except Adobe.

For now, however, the afore-mentioned use of voxels for terrain and tools such as 3D-Coat, as well as modelling programs that don't focus on the polygon aspect, such as ZBrush, are a reasonable start.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Masaru Daimon

[ChikaBoing]

People say that you should think outside of the Box, to how you could use that Controller...but I dunno. With the Wii remote, and Double Screen/Touch/Microphon, I could think of new possiblities immediately.

The New tablet, doesn't do much for me gameplay-wise, not less what what the GBA/GC combination did, only the smaller screen can show what Big Screen also can show. The Vita is kinda the same only you can't stream the game from the Big screen on the Small screen. I guess it's cool how you can how can hold it is a camera, but to me it just gimmicky.

To me it just doesn't very realized. It's a catch-up,and a quirky controller...that seems questionable as a Main Focus.

Also what happened to this rumor

- Remember Vitality Sensor? It Will most likely be husband a comeback at this year's E3, though note as a peripheral for Wii, But as a key feature of the Nintendo Feel.

Edited June 8, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Carbo]

The Vitality Sensor has become the vaporware of accessories. Every time people think it's dead there's always some bullshit rumor that surfaces.

These rumors sure have a lot of vitality.

[Thrippa]

I realize that the controller is the focus of the new changes and features and all, but Nintendo might want to put just a little more emphasis on the console unit itself. One of the reports I read yesterday was laying into Nintendo for "pretending" to have a new console when all it had was a pricey new controller "that you have to have a Wii already to actually run the games on; it just links to the console you already have".

(As far as I could tell, this was a serious article, not sarcasm over the imbalance of info on the controller vs. the console.)