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General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)


Tatsumaki

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Aiming for the older audiences, the ~core~ or whatever is much more feasible with powerful hardware and cutting edge online features and whatnot. That doesn't mean a weaker console can't have fantastic core games, but the point is the thing probably won't grab the attention of that group unless it promises something that the ~core~ would really love. The PS4's Share button is an example of that, if Nintendo capitalised on that early, as well as improved online features and things like using the Gamepad screen to play tons of old games aswell as new ones, they could have possibly gotten huge ~core~ attention without needing power.. I dunno, all possibilities.

 

But you have to aim for a audience no matter what. The ~core~ didn't work for Nintendo so they fell back on "family" and "kids", which is better than nothing in the current situation but yea isn't helping them win back the core image any time soon.

 

I personally don't think Nintendo will want to risk a PS4+ level powered system when there's no reason for them to believe it'll definitely work out, they've shown before there are other ways they can get attention. For now they need to work on minimising Wii U production and losses while keeping it on the market, finish up their games for it, and hit the drawing board hard for the next round.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth, haha. I literally agree with almost every word of this post. Glad we're so on point today. ;)

 

The only thing I'd kind want to dispute is Nintendo trying again to get another audience, as I think the casual audience is a much bigger risk to take on then the more dedicated core audience. Worked for them in the SNES days after all, and the N64 and GC only failed as a result of them being really late on the market and designed in a way that made the first two Playstations much easier to develop for. I'd personally like to see them really try with all their might to get in on Sony and Microsoft's game - I think they'd have a really good shot if they had a more forward-thinking and confident board of directors at the helm.

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Well with Bayonetta 2, SMT x FE(that games still in production right?) "X" and Hyrule warriors they would get that "core" audience they've been trying to get since they announced the system

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Well with Bayonetta 2, SMT x FE(that games still in production right?) "X" and Hyrule warriors they would get that "core" audience they've been trying to get since they announced the system

I agree on this one, I am hyped to get X and Hyrule warriors this year!

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I personally don't think Nintendo will want to risk a PS4+ level powered system when there's no reason for them to believe it'll definitely work out, they've shown before there are other ways they can get attention. For now they need to work on minimising Wii U production and losses while keeping it on the market, finish up their games for it, and hit the drawing board hard for the next round.

 

Its the way this is worded that gets to me, and is probably why I keep jumping into the wheel-o-arguments.

 

 And that's almost completely because it implies that Nintendo failed, time to close up shop and wrap this up as quickly as possible. It may not be what's being intended here, but it certainly sends the message that they should just go ahead and close the book on this.

 

This gen just started for me, and it's the first one I've been fully invested in since the gen-before-last. I'd rather not spend the rest of this gen with Nintendo as if it's just an all-around disappointing one and that the upcoming games are just a countdown tick closer to getting past this.

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 yet the fact that their stock shares are back up doesnt

Wait, they're back up!? When and how?

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Its the way this is worded that gets to me, and is probably why I keep jumping into the wheel-o-arguments.

 

 And that's almost completely because it implies that Nintendo failed, time to close up shop and wrap this up as quickly as possible. It may not be what's being intended here, but it certainly sends the message that they should just go ahead and close the book on this.

 

This gen just started for me, and it's the first one I've been fully invested in since the gen-before-last. I'd rather not spend the rest of this gen with Nintendo as if it's just an all-around disappointing one and that the upcoming games are just a countdown tick closer to getting past this.

 

I think what he meant is they need to minimalize their losses while still maintaining a place on the market, and rethink their strategy. I don't think he meant give up on it.

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I think what he meant is they need to minimalize their losses while still maintaining a place on the market, and rethink their strategy. I don't think he meant give up on it.

 

Suppose so, which I agree with. The way it's been worded before though just seems like a pretty dang pessimistic spin on that. lol

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Its the way this is worded that gets to me, and is probably why I keep jumping into the wheel-o-arguments.

 

 And that's almost completely because it implies that Nintendo failed, time to close up shop and wrap this up as quickly as possible. It may not be what's being intended here, but it certainly sends the message that they should just go ahead and close the book on this.

 

This gen just started for me, and it's the first one I've been fully invested in since the gen-before-last. I'd rather not spend the rest of this gen with Nintendo as if it's just an all-around disappointing one and that the upcoming games are just a countdown tick closer to getting past this.

 

That's exactly what he (I assume, anyway) and I are saying because it's true from a business perspective. 

 

It sucks. It really does, and I'm not going to ignore that - I own a Vita so I know exactly how you feel, haha. But the last thing Nintendo should do is needlessly bleed millions of dollars for another several years when they could and should be focusing on long term improvement.

 

The first step to making a better console next time is recognizing and admitting that the Wii U was an abysmal failure and won't turn around. It's looking less and less like the next Gamecube or even Dreamcast, and more and more like the new Saturn. That's how bad it is. The Wii U has cost them billions that they're not going to make back any time soon. Because of the Wii U's R&D investment and subsequent catastrophic failure (alongside the 3DS's bad start and lower than expected performance), they lost over $5.3 billion in 2012, another $366 million in 2013, and are now bracing for a $530 million loss come March.

 

 

I think what he meant is they need to minimalize their losses while still maintaining a place on the market, and rethink their strategy. I don't think he meant give up on it.

 

Don't these essentially mean the same thing though? Just bandage it up so it won't cost them millions more and just slowly cut off support so they can move on from it. I highly doubt he's suggesting the kind of turnaround attempt that Azu is talking about.

 

 

Edit - Just to add, forgive me if I'm actually the one misreading SuperLink, haha. I just think thought that he and I were suggesting the same thing.

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The only thing I'd kind want to dispute is Nintendo trying again to get another audience, as I think the casual audience is a much bigger risk to take on then the more dedicated core audience. Worked for them in the SNES days after all, and the N64 and GC only failed as a result of them being really late on the market and designed in a way that made the first two Playstations much easier to develop for. I'd personally like to see them really try with all their might to get in on Sony and Microsoft's game - I think they'd have a really good shot if they had a more forward-thinking and confident board of directors at the helm.

I don't think that can happen. Third parties just don't get along with Nintendo, their games don't sell on Nintendo and Nintendo aren't willing to buy support like their competitors do. The Gamecube was a product of Nintendo abstaining from trying to get third party support, but even when they tried with Wii U it fizzled out very quickly.

 

The SNES worked because there was literally no better option for third parties, Nintendo's poor third party treatment was worth it for the notice and sales their games would get on the platform. That.. isn't the case anymore, and it's not something that can be fixed in a single gen transition, I'm certain of that.

 

No matter how cool a leading-powerhouse like the SNES filled with games and stuff would be, it's simply not possible right now. Nintendo's image is too ingrained, third party games have rarely ever sold even on mega-popular systems like the Wii, tech is far too expensive and doesn't break even profits even when priced at £400+, it's just not feasible for Nintendo at all, at the very least not until Nintendo has had a miraculous gen where they manage to ditch the image and get third party support back prior-transition.

 

And that's almost completely because it implies that Nintendo failed, time to close up shop and wrap this up as quickly as possible. It may not be what's being intended here, but it certainly sends the message that they should just go ahead and close the book on this.

 

This gen just started for me, and it's the first one I've been fully invested in since the gen-before-last. I'd rather not spend the rest of this gen with Nintendo as if it's just an all-around disappointing one and that the upcoming games are just a countdown tick closer to getting past this.

What Goomy said. I'm not saying Nintendo's 8th gen system needs to gtfo the market, I'm saying Nintendo need to be careful and minimise their losses rather than continue to put confidence in the Wii U.

 

Apologies if it seemed pessimistic, I just want Nintendo to be careful for the remainder of the gen.

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I don't think that can happen. Third parties just don't get along with Nintendo, their games don't sell on Nintendo and Nintendo aren't willing to buy support like their competitors do. The Gamecube was a product of Nintendo abstaining from trying to get third party support, but even when they tried with Wii U it fizzled out very quickly.

 

The SNES worked because there was literally no better option for third parties, Nintendo's poor third party treatment was worth it for the notice and sales their games would get on the platform. That.. isn't the case anymore, and it's not something that can be fixed in a single gen transition, I'm certain of that.

 

No matter how cool a leading-powerhouse like the SNES filled with games and stuff would be, it's simply not possible right now. Nintendo's image is too ingrained, third party games have rarely ever sold even on mega-popular systems like the Wii, tech is far too expensive and doesn't break even profits even when priced at £400+, it's just not feasible for Nintendo at all, at the very least not until Nintendo has had a miraculous gen where they manage to ditch the image and get third party support back prior-transition.

 

But there's no way for them to ditch their image without making the console that we're both imagining here, haha. Let's be clear in regards to the Gamecube though - they did briefly attempt to bring in some studios to make games (Capcom Five being the most prominent example), yes, but it really doesn't fit the idea of what I'm saying they should do. Like everything else Nintendo's done for ages, the Gamecube was practically designed in a vacuum. It had less buttons than the PS2, released a year later, and only supported a different proprietary format. It also didn't help that it had the form factor of a purple lunchbox, haha. The same applies to the Nintendo 64 and its lack of CD support - it made development much costlier and harder than it was with the Playstation, and thus developers flocked to that system instead.

 

I believe if Nintendo did release a system on time of comparable power (it doesn't have to be the best, just like how the PS2 wasn't), and did make legitimate efforts to satisfy the core audience alongside developers, they could see a lot of success. It's a much safer plan to make the system people want from them than to risk billions more on another shot at the casual audience. Just make a strong system with no strings attached and third parties will come. After all, why wouldn't they? If they base the next system on x86 architecture and have it at least able to consistently run PS5/Nextbox games (even if at a slightly lower resolution) without a lot of extra effort having to be taken, they'll just get the third parties by default. From there, they make legitimate attempts at branching out their own first party library and I think they'd be able to compete just fine.

 

After all, the Wii U is currently costing them boatloads of money as well. If they'll possibly be losing millions anyway, at least use that money towards a productive long term investment that'll shed them of their current problems.

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But there's no way for them to ditch their image without making the console that we're both imagining here, haha. Let's be clear in regards to the Gamecube though - they did briefly attempt to bring in some studios to make games (Capcom Five being the most prominent example), yes, but it really doesn't fit the idea of what I'm saying they should do. Like everything else Nintendo's done for ages, the Gamecube was practically designed in a vacuum. It had less buttons than the PS2, released a year later, and only supported a different proprietary format. It also didn't help that it had the form factor of a purple lunchbox, haha. The same applies to the Nintendo 64 and its lack of CD support - it made development much costlier and harder than it was with the Playstation, and thus developers flocked to that system instead.

 

I believe if Nintendo did release a system on time of comparable power (it doesn't have to be the best, just like how the PS2 wasn't), and did make legitimate efforts to satisfy the core audience alongside developers, they could see a lot of success. It's a much safer plan to make the system people want from them than to risk billions more on another shot at the casual audience. Just make a strong system with no strings attached and third parties will come. After all, why wouldn't they? If they base the next system on x86 architecture and have it at least able to consistently run PS5/Nextbox games (even if at a slightly lower resolution) without a lot of extra effort having to be taken, they'll just get the third parties by default. From there, they make legitimate attempts at branching out their own first party library and I think they'd be able to compete just fine.

 

After all, the Wii U is currently costing them boatloads of money as well. If they'll possibly be losing millions anyway, at least use that money towards a productive long term investment that'll shed them of their current problems.

Discoid, one slight problem with your logic, powerwise the Wii-U is ALREADY the PS2 of generation, its a bit behind the other two, but the discrepency is really not that different

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I'd say that 3rd party support has gotten a little better over the years than it has since N64-Wii days its not perfect but it could be better. We got namco helping on the next smash, fire emblem crossing over with SMT, Platnium games making a new IP for Nintendo and made Bayonetta 2 exclusive to the Wii U, the Nintendo/SEGA partnership(maybe lost world's bad reviews prevented people from buying it and in the Olympics case the real Olympics hasn't started yet?) and Zelda crossing over with dynasty warriors and probably a bunch of collaborations that have yet to be announced(square maybe make another mario RPG?). True not everybody is making games for the Wii u at the moment(Capcom, konami) and some are jumping ship(EA) while others are trying to make a quick buck out of it(activision,ubisoft)

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Don't these essentially mean the same thing though?

 

Not even close. There's a massive difference between minimizing your losses while you restrategize and just giving up entirely.

 

Fact is, Nintendo can't afford to give up on the Wii U. As has been said, that will alienate those who already supported the console and cause them to be angry with Nintendo, not to mention the millions of dollars of already produced consoles they would have to outright scrap. All they can really do is try and fix this fucking mess.

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After all, the Wii U is currently costing them boatloads of money as well. If they'll possibly be losing millions anyway, at least use that money towards a productive long term investment that'll shed them of their current problems.

There are different kinds of boatloads of money. There's the kind where you can make even on about £300 and the main issue is a tablet controller, and the kind where you are losing for every system sold even at £500 and the main issue is that it's got everything in it. Nintendo don't have that kind of money, they can't compete with the amount of money-loss that PS3 or One deal with on an every day basis - they can't make a high-end system that has everything in it, they will be losing the features war from point 1 at that angle.

 

Dude it sounds like a dream system but if they go for it it's gonna be a more disastrous Gamecube, it's just too expensive for a company who only does one thing and has nothing else to fall back on. A console needs uniqueness to be on the market with the beasts, PS4 is the gamer system, One is the all in one, and Wii /was/ the fitness or interesting system. Why would you buy a Gamecube if you could buy a PS2 which has more buzz and more games, plus is a sequel to the super awesome PS1?

 

Why would you buy "Nintendo Dream System" when you could buy other console which has a lot more buzz and support, less uncertainty. The average consumer doesn't know what gets exclusives and why, the average consumer only need the most popular "gaming machine". 2 or 3 systems of the exact same kind can't co-exist and all be successful, if all consoles in a gen are successful it's because they're all popular for different reasons. People don't buy a console if they don't know what it's for (Wii U) and they don't but a console if it does exactly what the others do but not as "cool" (GC and Xbox).

 

For this console to compete on even footing with the PS4 it would need strong third party support from launch that didn't let up from initially weak sales, where will that come from? It won't appear over night, you can't magically restore third party trust after two decades of not having it, Nintendo consoles aren't gonna magically start selling third party games after just one transition either.

 

Things have changed too much man, that kind of thing just isn't possible with Sony and Microsoft doing what they are and if third parties ever return to Nintendo it'll be a very gradual thing, definitely not something that's possible for 9th gen.

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Looks like NOA is planning some advertising soon, thankfully.

Congratulations to Raymond for winning “The Pitch” for Wii U contest. He just won a trip for four to Los Angeles to attend a Nintendo commercial shoot! Kudos are also in order for the runners-up: Joshua, Jack and Melissa. Thanks to everyone who participated!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa18Ux-d1iI

https://www.facebook.com/NintendoConsoleGaming/posts/10101273409070037?stream_ref=1

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Discoid, one slight problem with your logic, powerwise the Wii-U is ALREADY the PS2 of generation, its a bit behind the other two, but the discrepency is really not that different

 

No, it's not. The PS2 was actually moderately powerful at the time of release, whereas the Wii U is literally an entire generation behind. The fact that Mario natively runs at 720p is proof of this.

 

 

Not even close. There's a massive difference between minimizing your losses while you restrategize and just giving up entirely.

 

Fact is, Nintendo can't afford to give up on the Wii U. As has been said, that will alienate those who already supported the console and cause them to be angry with Nintendo, not to mention the millions of dollars of already produced consoles they would have to outright scrap. All they can really do is try and fix this fucking mess.

 

Yes, by temporarily halting production, getting rid of the stock they have already produced, releasing enough games this year and next to satisfy the relative few who already bought it. What I'm saying isn't that they should literally leave it to die, but to only moderately support the system so they can actually make it through 2014 without another billion dollars going down the drain. 

 

 

There are different kinds of boatloads of money. There's the kind where you can make even on about £300 and the main issue is a tablet controller, and the kind where you are losing for every system sold even at £500 and the main issue is that it's got everything in it. Nintendo don't have that kind of money, they can't compete with the amount of money-loss that PS3 or One deal with on an every day basis - they can't make a high-end system that has everything in it, they will be losing the features war from point 1 at that angle.

 

Dude it sounds like a dream system but if they go for it it's gonna be a more disastrous Gamecube, it's just too expensive for a company who only does one thing and has nothing else to fall back on. A console needs uniqueness to be on the market with the beasts, PS4 is the gamer system, One is the all in one, and Wii /was/ the fitness or interesting system. Why would you buy a Gamecube if you could buy a PS2 which has more buzz and more games, plus is a sequel to the super awesome PS1?

 

Why would you buy "Nintendo Dream System" when you could buy other console which has a lot more buzz and support, less uncertainty. The average consumer doesn't know what gets exclusives and why, the average consumer only need the most popular "gaming machine". 2 or 3 systems of the exact same kind can't co-exist and all be successful, if all consoles in a gen are successful it's because they're all popular for different reasons. People don't buy a console if they don't know what it's for (Wii U) and they don't but a console if it does exactly what the others do but not as "cool" (GC and Xbox).

 

For this console to compete on even footing with the PS4 it would need strong third party support from launch that didn't let up from initially weak sales, where will that come from? It won't appear over night, you can't magically restore third party trust after two decades of not having it, Nintendo consoles aren't gonna magically start selling third party games after just one transition either.

 

Things have changed too much man, that kind of thing just isn't possible with Sony and Microsoft doing what they are and if third parties ever return to Nintendo it'll be a very gradual thing, definitely not something that's possible for 9th gen.

 

But why is this impossible for them? The Wii U is already being sold at a loss - most likely somewhere between $50-$100 because of the Gamepad being such an expensive thing to produce. Both the PS4 and Xbox One... are about the same. Just one game purchase recoups the loss for the PS4, and the online subscription systems the two have help quite a bit as well. 

 

I know paid online subscriptions are aggravating and not something anyone would ask for, but I'd personally take that over a woefully underpowered machine, and looking at the sales of the Xbox and PS4, it seems the general market feels the same way. I don't want to pay more than I have to, but if that's what it takes for Nintendo to actually make good hardware for once then so be it.

 

In any case, the main point here is that this generation is not at all like the last, and Nintendo is suffering (at least almost) just as much of a loss as Sony and Microsoft. The PS4 and Xbox One aren't bleeding edge behemoths and are built off of simple PC architecture, with the industry in general seeming to go in the direction of unified architecture (which is a very good and healthy thing for the industry as a whole, as it leads the console holders to now compete and services and exclusive quality). The manufacturing of these consoles is cheaper than its ever been and it's a perfect time for Nintendo to jump in. 

 

So, again I repeat, it would be better for them in the long term to invest that money into a safer, more forward-thinking direction then to potentially lose several billions again on another catastrophic failure of a system with an identity crisis.

 

Things have changed, but for the better. Now is a good time.

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It's not a matter of what you think would be an amazing idea, but moreso whats realistic and what they're gonna do.

 

And it seems pretty obvious what they're gonna do..... which (in case it wasn't) is stick through this and fix the hell out of their direction with this console, supporting the library they've already built and continue expanding it for at least another good 2 - 4 years.

 

They're not going to give up their userbase, give up their entire console, or anything like that; but what you can expect them to do is try releasing a big solid and high quality library of games, and gradually try fixing their image to both consumers and third parties until they got a good standing for next gen.

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Can we just wait till MK8 and smash 4 to come out before we hit the "panic" button?

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They need to focus on getting all those fucking games they've announced hyped up first. We haven't heard jack shit about Bayonetta 2 and even fucking less about SMT x FE, nothing about Yarn Yoshi, nothing about the next Zelda, they can't leave people in the fucking dark like this and expect the console to sell.

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Yeah. I mean, for a company that seems to have some of the most creative games in the industry, they don't seem to like to showcase it much. 'Making of' videos, game play footage, teasers, PR hype, anything would be nice.

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  I don't know if those AD's can save them, unless a MASSIVE amount of people randomly go out and buy Wii-U's for the next 7 months I don't see them making up their loses anytime soon. If they keep pushing this at this rate they are still going to lose money. 3rd party is what they need, but they have been having a HARD time with this since the 'cude'. Everyone is saying they can't stop support cause people would be pissed. But what if they did this slowly and the next system is backwards com? So those games on the 'U' won't be a waste AND they can make a more powerful system that 3rd parties can get behind? Seems simple to me. But I don't work for them so what do I know. 

 

 

 

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Wow...I forgot Bayonetta 2 existed.

Has it got a release date yet or there hasn't been any updates on it since?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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