General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Indigo Rush]

What's DKCTF like? Might put it on my backlog...

Absolutely amazing. It's basically the perfect 2D platformer.

 

Smooth as butter controls, clever, tough as nails level design, beautiful music, stunning graphics, and replay value that gives the Sonic games a serious run for their money. 

 

Unpopular platform be damned, I'll be floored and disgusted if this game doesn't win any "best of" awards this year.

[Sami]

I think it's too early to say they're trying to sweep it under the rug. They are putting a lot of stock into Mario Kart 8, after all.

 

Nintendo has always been stubborn, so I do believe Iwata was sincere when he was talking about fixing the system. 

 

I'm not sure. After 3D World didn't help I think it'd be outright stupid to bank much on any one particular game. 

 

I think it's more of a "let's just try to get the most of this last thing" thing then an actual legitimate hope. That's just me speculating though, of course.

[Wraith]

So what do you think of the Zelda game that's still on track for Wii U, among other things? If they really were secretly planning something else, surely they would just bump it up, right?

[8ther]

Sorry for being slow on this but, what exactly is Nintendo's "Quality of Life" plan?

[Sami]

To be fair, we can't really know that they won't. Depending on Zelda's time of release they could do just that. 

 

Could. It's not something I'd bet on, though. Apart from that, I honestly think the time for greenlighting big budget Wii U projects has passed. 2014 and 2015 will most likely see relatively cheap releases and projects that were already in production internally.

 

At least, that's what I think. I'm doubtful we'll see any big huge announcements at E3 2015. 

[Wraith]

Nintendo already said not that long ago that they're putting out their IPs to other companies so they can get more projects going. Sounds like they're still greenlightning things to me.

[Sami]

Like I said, relatively cheap releases. They'll probably want their core studios working hard to be ready for whatever console comes out next, and just publish a handful of games developed by third parties in order to keep appearances up. 

 

I'll eat crow if we see another major Mario game developed by EAD, for instance. Especially at E3 2015.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

It won't be able to run 8th gen exclusive games that use hardware the Wii U doesn't have. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about this - as Solkia said, there are things the Wii U factually can not do that the PS4 and Xbox One can. The easiest example I can think of is RAM. Both the PS4 and XB1 have roughly 5GB of RAM available to games (PS4 has 5.5, I'm not sure about Xbox), a number that is sure to rise as Sony and Microsoft optimize their operating systems. Wii U has a total 2GB, including the operating system. As such, any game that requires 4GB of RAM at any given time is literally impossible on the Wii U. Entire sections of games will have to be cut, and if the game regularly needs over 2GB (actually less than that because part of it has to go to the OS), then it just won't work.

 

First of all, what's to say Nintendo can't optimize and rise as well?

 

Secondly depending on how said RAM is is distributed and used, the Wii U could still get a functional and on-par version with some games, albeit. Granted, it's not always worth the costs of porting to the Wii U on some mulit-platform titles, but it can be done.

 

I know you mean well, but I think you might be conceptually condemning and underestimating the Wii U a bit too much.

 

I mean, I know the Wii U probably won't be able to run EVERYTHING crisp and fine, but it shouldn't be systematically and automatically counted out either.

[Autosaver]

Well, the Wii U can get PS4 graphics

 

Watch Dogs graphics

 

 

huehuehuehuehue

[Sami]

First of all, what's to say Nintendo can't optimize and rise as well?

 

Secondly depending on how said RAM is is distributed and used, the Wii U could still get a functional and on-par version with some games, albeit. Granted, it's not always worth the costs of porting to the Wii U on some mulit-platform titles, but it can be done.

 

I know you mean well, but I think you might be conceptually condemning and underestimating the Wii U a bit too much.

 

I mean, I know the Wii U probably won't be able to run EVERYTHING crisp and fine, but it shouldn't be systematically and automatically counted out either.

 

Optimizing isn't going to magically change the fact that the system literally has no more than 2GB of RAM built into it, a cripplingly weak CPU, and a much weaker GPU than the competition.

 

If you want to tell me I'm wrong, then give me facts. I'd be happy to discuss this further, but I'm getting bored of "no it's really not that weak because prove it".

 

You've also yet to find those examples. Would I be right in assuming you don't actually have any?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

As am I growing tired of the "Take my word for it; surely the Wii U can't do this or that; no chance for the Wii U whatsoever" conga line.

And that's not even getting into the bouts where hypocrites say the Wii U needs support, but when an apparent big budget exclusive for the system comes about they'll vilify, discourage, etcetera it to death.

 

Or just see it get screwed with immensely ala Rayman Legends.

As for said examples, I believe I've given quite a few before such EA's rantings, debating the Wii U is in capable of stuff later to be disprove, the DirectX11 debacle, CryEngine, etc.

[Willsy]

Well, the Wii U can get PS4 graphics

Watch Dogs graphics

huehuehuehuehue

Wii U confirmed to be able to handle PS2 level car models.

But seriously the situation with WD is pretty sad...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Well surely it can't get any worse. Not that it's looking really good now, but for the sake of people who were hyped for it, hopefully it can deliver.

[Sami]

As am I growing tired of the "Take my word for it; surely the Wii U can't do this or that; no chance for the Wii U whatsoever" conga line.

And that's not even getting into the bouts where hypocrites say the Wii U needs support, but when an apparent big budget exclusive for the system comes about they'll vilify, discourage, etcetera it to death.

 

Or just see it get screwed with immensely ala Rayman Legends.

As for said examples, I believe I've given quite a few before such EA's rantings, debating the Wii U is in capable of stuff later to be disprove, the DirectX11 debacle, CryEngine, etc.

The fundamental difference between your posts and what your complaining about is that those other posts actually have a basis in reality, and in many cases actual rationalizations reached by looking at the system's actual technical specifications. For every explanation I give on how RAM works, why the Wii U doesn't have enough, and how this fundamentally makes many games flat out impossible to port, your response is consistently a paltry "you're underestimating it".

If you want to talk specs, by all means, please do. I love tech talk. But actually give me some reason to believe why I'm underestimating it. Write about the GPU or CPU or RAM because by all means I'd love to see why I'm wrong. Tornado did just this earlier.

I've grown tired of "you're underestimating it but don't ask me why because I don't actually know but just trust me you are"

Also, I I'd love some links for those.

If you're referring to EA's comments on FB3, that was actually debunked about three pages ago or so in this very thread. If you're talking about that one indie game that uses DirectX11 lighting, I've actually talked about that as well - the main developer himself said that they had to custom write the coding into the pre-existing toolset on the Wii U. This does not actually mean it's compatible with those features, rather, it proves that on a large scale production, what is relatively simple on the PS4 and XB1 has to be completely rewritten for Wii U just to work. Finally, what developer claimed that the CryEngine wouldn't work? It's compatible with the PS3 and 360 so I'm interested in seeing this. Links for more examples would be swell.

[RK64]

To be fair, we can't really know that they won't. Depending on Zelda's time of release they could do just that. 

 

Could. It's not something I'd bet on, though. Apart from that, I honestly think the time for greenlighting big budget Wii U projects has passed. 2014 and 2015 will most likely see relatively cheap releases and projects that were already in production internally.

 

At least, that's what I think. I'm doubtful we'll see any big huge announcements at E3 2015. 

 

I really think that could be the case, as they need to have a huge game primed up for the next big Nintendo console (just look at how great Twilight Princess made the Wii launch for example). At the same time, they announced the game for Wii U months ago (when they announced Wind Waker HD), and considering this game must have been in development since...early 2012, it must be quite far along with development at this point (I expect it to be that "Big" Nintendo Game of this year's E3).

 

Outside of a new Zelda, I honestly think that is it for big budget Nintendo games for Wii U. They are bleeding money from the system and due to them taking too long to try to make the situation better, its a bit to late to "save" the Wii U. Granted, the Wii U's situation could still improve if they did some simple things (a proper account system, cross-buy VC games across 3ds-Wii U, stronger VC library, some self-funded ports of the important 3rd party games, conituning working with publishers/developers to make new games using Nintendo IP like Hyrue Wariors and SMxFE, have a cheaper price point (the Deulx at 250, the basic at 200), ect).

 

 

As am I growing tired of the "Take my word for it; surely the Wii U can't do this or that; no chance for the Wii U whatsoever" conga line.

And that's not even getting into the bouts where hypocrites say the Wii U needs support, but when an apparent big budget exclusive for the system comes about they'll vilify, discourage, etcetera it to death.

 

Or just see it get screwed with immensely ala Rayman Legends.

As for said examples, I believe I've given quite a few before such EA's rantings, debating the Wii U is in capable of stuff later to be disprove, the DirectX11 debacle, CryEngine, etc.

 

 

Power wise, I don't think the Wii U is weak, as IT IS more powerful than the PS3/360 and as you have said many times, if more developers were willing to tap into that power, the Wii U can have some really beautiful games. That being said, it isn't as powerful as the PS4/X1, so while the Wii U can run things like CryEngine (Sonic Boom, the canceled port of Cryes 3) and elements of DirectX11, it cant run some of the games coming to the PS4/X1 like Batman Arkam Knight and the like...

 

As for 3rd party exclusives jumping ship so to speak, it really is understandable why the whole situation with Rayman Legends happened sadly . The game wouldn't have given Ubi enough money back to see it as an good investment and even though the game reported sold best on Wii U, it still got a decent amount of sales from the PS3/360/Vita/PC/PS4/X1 versions. Ubisoft really should have pulled a Resident Evil 4 with Legends though (have the game come out when it was supposed to in March, then by early August have an enhanced version come to PS3/360/Vita/PC with the extra levels/Origins stages along with having the PS4/X1 versions ready for those systems launch, then have the extra content from those version come to Wii U via very cheap/free DLC or an enhanced version costing MUCH less than the original one)...

 

I agree with you about the exclusive stuff though, were games many have been asking for like Bayonetta 2 finally coming but only to Wii U, and while it should push people to get a Wii U, it instead causes so much port begging that the developers themselves have to repeatedly explain that "NINTENDO IS FUNDING THE GAME, WITH OUT THEM THIS WOULD BE MADE!!!". I don't own a Wii U and would have loved to play exclusives like the upcoming Sonic Boom, Lost World and DKC TF on my PS3, I fully understand why those games are on the Wii U and hope Wii U owners enjoy those great games ...its just a shame that many don't have that same thought process ...

[Mr Loopone]

At this point in time, it looks increasing likely that Mario Kart 8 will be my last Wii U game unless Nintendo do something really special around E3 time. With most of the 3rd parties leaving or already left, it is most likely going to be mainly from Nintendo in terms of Wii U games with perhaps some licensed Activision games and Lego games released by Warner Bros. With the 3rd party partnerships it is a possibility but then again Namco have mostly left with just the focusing on finishing Smash Bros (if they cancelled a digital download game then it doesn't look good), Tecmo Koei aren't releasing any more Ninja Gaiden or some of their Warriors games like Dynasty Warriors 8 that the PS4 is going to get but not the Wii U however Hyrule Warriors is coming out and have no clue regarding Sega even though they are likely at this point. Only reason why thinking of Japanese developers is because most of the Western ones aren't interested with Nintendo and due to lower development budgets might be more likely to release games on the Wii U however the PS3 is still around and Japanese developers are also focusing on handheld and mobile that are cheaper still. Also have this strange feeling that SMT X Fire Emblem might not even get released or if it does get released then Japan only since Europe hasn't got SMT IV and it has gone quiet on that front. Plus in the past, both SMT and Fire Emblem were originally Japanese only series that have only been localised for the past 10-12 years.

 

If it is like the Gamecube and the Xbox (for different reasons), then 2015 might be its last big push year for Nintendo with 2016 getting the last few games. Unless Zelda gets released at the end of this year even though Hyrule Warriors is more likely, it is most likely going to be the big game of 2015. There are still the indies that are releasing games however how many have and are happening due to the nature of development they might get cancelled or moved to the next Nintendo console since they are taking too long to develop. Apart from Zelda, what other games are getting released that year (2015)? Well it is most likely going to be Smash Bros unless it gets released this year. Can see a Kirby and an Animal Crossing game coming out for the console since for the latter the Wii U app will be closing which is a sign of a possible game and a case of a repeating strategy (like the 3DS had Super Mario 3D Land, New Super Mario Bros. 2, Ocarina of Time remake, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Mario Kart 7 and Animal Crossing New Leaf while the Wii U has Super Mario 3D World, New Super Mario Bros. U, Wind Waker remake, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and Mario Kart 8 so an Animal Crossing game will fit here). Then it gets a bit cloudy from there with only Mighty No. 9 that is known to come out.

 

Oh and I forgot to reply to Discoid last time but things have changed in the PAL charts regarding Donkey Kong. Last week Thief was released and got up to Number 1 (despite the graphics are a bit ropey on the PS4 due to a bug) and this week despite being censored South Park: The Stick of Truth is Number 1 for the 360 version and Number 2 for the PS3 version. Due to these changes, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is now at Number 37 in the UK charts with only the two 3DS Pokemon games being lower than that (DKC is the highest Nintendo game on the charts and the only Wii U game). I'll predict next week that Donkey Kong will be out of the charts after 4 weeks. As for the other countries Thief is also doing well and the only countries where Donkey Kong is still fairly high up in the charts is France and Germany (not in the Italian charts, fairly low in the Nordic countries, no charts for Spain and Portugal).

 

At this point, I really do hope that Mario Kart 8 does well not just for the console but also for the players and for Nintendo too since it is the make or break game. If it does really well like DS, 64, 7 (that helped the 3DS along side with Super Mario 3D Land) or Wii, then the Wii U will carry on with a brighter future with a possiblity of more games to look forward to. If it is like Super Circuit (unless that I am mistaken, the least selling Mario Kart game) then the Wii U is in complete danger where even Smash and Zelda can't save the console. If it is like Double Dash, then it is going to be meh where it was a high selling game but a small blip on the radar however will still have a fanbase with the console like the Gamecube did. While I will prefer option 1 to happen, can actually see option 3 being a possibility though.

 

It might be sold out on US Amazon however there could be other factors in place (asides from the obvious that Amazon don't have any stock until 30th May) like Amazon could be getting a small batch since I'm not sure regarding the status of the Amazon/Nintendo relationship in the US unlike the EU where Nintendo sends games and consoles to Amazon directly. I know that Amazon didn't get consoles directly from Nintendo after the 3DS problem.

 

 

Sorry for being slow on this but, what exactly is Nintendo's "Quality of Life" plan?

 

 

You know stuff like Wii Fit on the Wii/Wii U or Brain Training on the DS? It is going to be related to that so basically health programs and educational software. Nintendo wants something that does not need a device to do it but that's all the information that has been given so far.

[Detective Shadzter]

Nintendo's going to be at Gamescom this year.

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-will-be-at-this-years-gamescom/

[RK64]

You know, I've just thought of something; why aren't Dreamcast and Saturn games on the Wii U VC? Yes, this is a random thought, but considering the Sonic deal with Nintendo and Sega alongside the fact that the Wii U needs games, I'm really surprised this hasn't happened yet...

 

Just think about it for a sec; the Wii U's VC launching with Sega Saturn and Sega Dreamcast games (3 for Saturn via Pasern Dragoon, Clockwork Knight and Virtual Fighter 2 and 3 for Dreamcast via SA 1, SA 2 and Shenmue) would have been a great way to drawn more buyers. With Saturn games costing so much money and the Dreamcast having such a great library of games, those systems would be PERFECT as new VC systems for Nintendo's stuggling platform . If I could play hits like Skies of Arcadia, Shenmue, and Phazern Dragoon...the Wii U would be an insta-buy man !

 

[Indigo Rush]

Same reason N64 games and the like aren't on the Wii U virtual console.

 

Ninty don' gibba derng.

 

As for SEGA, they're just not paying attention. Or they don't care, either. I'll go with both.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

You know, I've just thought of something; why aren't Dreamcast and Saturn games on the Wii U VC? Yes, this is a random thought, but considering the Sonic deal with Nintendo and Sega alongside the fact that the Wii U needs games, I'm really surprised this hasn't happened yet...

 

Just think about it for a sec; the Wii U's VC launching with Sega Saturn and Sega Dreamcast games (3 for Saturn via Pasern Dragoon, Clockwork Knight and Virtual Fighter 2 and 3 for Dreamcast via SA 1, SA 2 and Shenmue) would have been a great way to drawn more buyers. With Saturn games costing so much money and the Dreamcast having such a great library of games, those systems would be PERFECT as new VC systems for Nintendo's stuggling platform . If I could play hits like Skies of Arcadia, Shenmue, and Phazern Dragoon...the Wii U would be an insta-buy man !

well saturn games are kinda unportable, they lost all the source code

[RK64]

well saturn games are kinda unportable, they lost all the source code

 

Can't they just take the code from the retail disks and use that code to re-sell the games? That's what happened for some of the HD remasters (from what I recall, that was the case for the MGS Collection, GOW Collection and KH 1.5 Remix), so theoretically that should work for Saturn games...

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Saturn had an extremely complicated architecture that is still extremely difficult to emulate, as it had 2 CPUs using the same ram bottleneck, and one handled completely 2D and the other 3D, and the code they did to get each saturn game to work as well as it did was extremely convulted from what I have heard from my game development student buddy who has looked at Nights original code

[MegasonicZX]

It would be cool but I doubt nintendo would ever really do it at any point, real shame too when the system before it (a weaker one at that) has more virtual console games than the newer one does, I mean sure there putting gameboy advance games on it but it just feels like they're not even trying anymore.

[RK64]

It would be cool but I doubt nintendo would ever really do it at any point, real shame too when the system before it (a weaker one at that) has more virtual console games than the newer one does, I mean sure there putting gameboy advance games on it but it just feels like they're not even trying anymore.

 

Its just really weird; they have a really killer feature that could sell systems (Saturn and Dreamcast games are rare, so seeing those game be at digital stores for great prices is just...too cool to pass up on ), but they refuse to use it.

 

I would understand if they had the VC as a make-shift PS+ type deal where you get X amount of VC games per month but...that isn't the case, so them being so dam stingy about what gets put on the VC is stupid. Its not like we want some great N64 games like Turok, Donkey Kong 64, and more come to VC, NOPE we want NES Golf....

 

I really used to love Nintendo, but them not taking advantage of all of there really great games and the like really irks me , they could be so successful if they weren't so dam stupid .

[Ratcicle King]

Saturn had an extremely complicated architecture that is still extremely difficult to emulate, as it had 2 CPUs using the same ram bottleneck, and one handled completely 2D and the other 3D, and the code they did to get each saturn game to work as well as it did was extremely convulted from what I have heard from my game development student buddy who has looked at Nights original code

Considering there's the Mega Collection for the Gamecube and PS2, where there are ports of the two Sonic games from the Sega Saturn, would it be possible to port those from that collection to the VC?