General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Tornado]

How...

How do you have year-after-year growths as a result of something you announced 3 weeks ago?

[Gabz Girl]

Yup, it's offical. Nintendo has been around longer than gaming has even existed.

Nintendo used to make Hanafuda cards back in the late 19th century. So yes, the company has actually been around for 123 years or so. ;P

Edited June 25, 2012 by Gabz Girl

[Blacklightning]

...oh. Well that's what I get for misreading the wikipedia page.

[lounge]

I don't know how much of this is true. I don't know if Nintendo is actually losing money. All of their super mario games sell 10's of millions of units. Maybe this is why they're making two more new super mario bros games at the same time, not that I'm complaining.

[Detective Shadzter]

Fils-Aime hits back at 'insatiable Nintendo gamers' after poor E3

http://www.computera...-after-poor-e3/

[VO.SUPER]

Fils-Aime hits back at 'insatiable Nintendo gamers' after poor E3

http://www.computera...-after-poor-e3/

I see where he's coming from. But of course, I'll listen to you guys criticize him to see where you're coming from.

[Remy]

Some of what Reggie says is pretty on point. He's right that launching with Mario and Pikmin is pretty awesome, and that most gamers have a massive sense of entitlement, but this line-

"I have heard people say, you know, you've got these fantastic franchises. Beyond what you're doing in Smash Bros, isn't there a way to leverage all these franchises? So we create Nintendo Land and they say: Ho-hum. Give me more. It's an interesting challenge."

is just bullshit. Nintendoland looks like a massively meh, shitty waste of time and resources. As he put it, "ho-hum" is exactly my reaction to it.

Now I might be wrong on this one, but when I see something announced as a party game I'm not exactly filled with confidence as to it's quality, and I certainly don't see it as a system seller. It'd be better if they used their stable of "amazing IP" to actually but out some releases instead of relegating their characters to party games

[Marcello]

Some of what Reggie says is pretty on point. He's right that launching with Mario and Pikmin is pretty awesome, and that most gamers have a massive sense of entitlement, but this line-

is just bullshit. Nintendoland looks like a massively meh, shitty waste of time and resources. As he put it, "ho-hum" is exactly my reaction to it.

Now I might be wrong on this one, but when I see something announced as a party game I'm not exactly filled with confidence as to it's quality, and I certainly don't see it as a system seller. It'd be better if they used their stable of "amazing IP" to actually but out some releases instead of relegating their characters to party games

I only half agree. I think Nintendoland looks pretty cool. BUT, this is obviously not what people were asking for when they wanted more Smash Bros. like mash ups.

I think Nintendoland is the Wii Sports of the Wii U. It'll demonstrate what the controller can be used for, so it could get interesting for the more casual gamers, but it has the Nintendo franchises theme to make it interesting than the Wii- series for others and possibly get casuals more interested in them.

[Remy]

I only half agree. I think Nintendoland looks pretty cool. BUT, this is obviously not what people were asking for when they wanted more Smash Bros. like mash ups.

I think Nintendoland is the Wii Sports of the Wii U. It'll demonstrate what the controller can be used for, so it could get interesting for the more casual gamers, but it has the Nintendo franchises theme to make it interesting than the Wii- series for others and possibly get casuals more interested in them.

Yeah well this is the thing I suppose. Wii Sports on it's own isn't super amazing but the way it used the Wii Remote so well at the time made it way more fun that it would have been on it's own.

If Nintendo can pull off that kind of "wow this controller rules!!" effect with the Tab and Nintendoland I'll be all for it. It's kinda hard to say this early on though.

[Carbo]

I would really want to agree with him, since I will admit it pisses me off seeing an image macro with a neckbearded gamer and a "these guys watch E3" subtitle underneath it to somehow give weight to the notion of Nintendo's conference falling into the "0/10 saged reported called the cops" category if they so much as even mention a casual title. Not only are there better ways than to associate people to an almost insultingly degree to that of a "hardcore gamer", but there's no way to live that down if the focus isn't shifted on how people handle the presentation above the content, and that goes to both the people in charge of organizing the show and the people who are watching it.

Quite frankly I can't even begin to imagine how much you need to have your head stuck into your own ass to claim that their entire show was worse than Sony's Giant Enemy Crab shtick. It's like we're measuring press conference qualities now after black and white depending on whether or not you have titles that will set the world on fire, or whether press conferences house some casual family titles or non-gamer specific ones. Granted, Nintendo did fall into both those traps - just like Sony and Microsoft did. But when their 2010 show is held as the rule rather than the gold star exception, I'm surprised everyone hasn't turned into a cynic already, especially for a trade fair that has been progressively getting worse and worse with every year.

Some of what Reggie says is pretty on point. He's right that launching with Mario and Pikmin is pretty awesome, and that most gamers have a massive sense of entitlement, but this line-

is just bullshit. Nintendoland looks like a massively meh, shitty waste of time and resources. As he put it, "ho-hum" is exactly my reaction to it.

Nintendoland was cited by many, many people I know of that went to E3 as a massive highlight. Despite err-ing to the casual side, it was cited as being genuinely fun without patronizing an entire base with reverence to Nintendo memorabilia.

Quite frankly I want to believe that as far as Nintendo party titles go, it's probably one of their better ideas in a while now. It's a good way to introduce new people to their franchises and it's just plain fun for everyone, despite not being a system seller.

[Nintendoga]

Well Excuuuuuuuuuuuse me Reggie!

Sorry for not sucking Nintendo's dick after their lackluster Nintendo Directs and E3 presentation. Yeah some people wanted a new Pikmin. Guess what, no every Nintendo fan is a Pikmin fan. The Pikmin fanbase got a new Pikmin game, and that's probably the only good thing they've done for the "fans".

We want a new Mario. Not some over-used, boring, series that has made my love for his games diminish. I would like to see one comment that said "I want a new NSMB!" NOBODY said that. We want a new 2D original MArio series. We wanted an innovative, refreshing 2D Mario, yet you have the audacity to give us not one, but two NSMB games released months between eachother!

And that's not all. You fucking announced one of the biggest franchises at E3, a YEAR before you knew it would even start development. And then you ignore the huge news of Namco working on Smash Bros, one sentence that would have taken no less then 5 seconds to say, just to focus on NintendoLand which went on for far too long.

Speaking of Nintendoland, what is their incentive that casuals will be driven into other Nintendo IP's through that game? Just because they play a minigame or two doesn't mean they're gonna automatically gateway into the franchise. "Oh I like this minigame of Luigi's Mansion, but I'm not gonna buy the game, I just like this minigame" "Oh this Zelda minigame is fun, but the Zelda games look boring to me, not gonna buy them." You're trying to gain a wider audience through NintendoLand, and that's fine and all, except for one thing.

You change your game formulas/gimmicks too much. Someone who is expecting the Zelda games to play just like the minigame is going to be severley dissapointed, same with the people who play the Starfox game, F-Zero game, Donkey Kong game, etc. Hardocre gamers won't need it, as they can do research on their own and understand the franchises enough to know if the next game is good or not, and as such don't need a gateway. Casuals do however, and bringing them into NintendoLand, and expecting them to go straight to the next Main game of the series they like, and love it when in reality some may be turned off by how different it plays, or how hard it is, is dumb.

Not to say NintendoLand won't crash and burn. No, it's probably going to be the WiiSports of the Wii-U. But here's the thing though, you need to focus not on the audience you gained with the Wii, you got them already, they will buy your next system depending on your Marketing strategy and Launch titles. What you need to focus on, is the tons of Gamers, Developers, and Companies that rediculed the Wii, and aren't interested in the Wii-U.

The launch titles are not going to sway any 360/PS3/PC fan. There are almost ZERO Wii-U exclusive Third Party games. Zombi-U looks fun, but not enough to warrant a console. People were excited for Rayman Legends, but since Ubisoft said they didn't confirm it's a Wii-U exclusive, they're gonna wait. Batman, AC3, ME3, all these amazing games will be available on other systems at the Wii-U's launch. You're not going to convince anyone with "B.A.T" Mode, or Touch Screen Gimmicks, you're going to drive them away in fact most likely.

You keep saying this is it. This is the console to get back the hardcores, yet I don't see it. You haven't talked about how good the Online system is besides the Hub Menu, you haven't told us or shown us what the Wii-U is capable of. In fact, for a Next Generation System, one that is suppose to embrace HD and Social Online Gaming, you're first party games don't seem to show ANY of that (Pikmin 3, No Online because of fear of lag (Something other RTS games have done this generation). NSMBU, Not confirmed yet, but seeing that it's Nintendo, Launch titles at 720P because they can't run 60FPS, yet Almost every 360 game can do 1080P now, with 60FPS easily.)

How can I invest my money in the Wii-U when it's clear you guys aren't even confident in yourselves towards showing off the Wii-U. Miyamoto says "Power doesn't matter, the next gen systems won't be that much powerful to where the Wii-U will be like another Wii." You don't know that! People are saying "Oh the PS4 and 720 won't be that much more powerful, we've reached a point where yadda yadda yadda" We don't know what Sony and Microsoft are capable of. They are very capable of attracting casuals, hardcores, having great online, and making powerful consoles. Don't wait and play it out like last time, this is exactly what happened to the Wii.

So what if the power of the PS4 isn't that much powerful then Wii-U? (Even though most devs are saying the Wii-U is 1.5 times more powerful then the 360, and the 720 and PS4 will obviously be TREMENDOUSLY more powerful the 360) Devs might look at the PS4, go like "Well yeah the Wii-U is selling, but the PS4 gives us more room to work, and more power to test out our creativity.

I want to believe in you Nintendo, but it's very hard for me too. The Wii-U is capable of being an amazing Nintendo System, but I need to see something that will attract a wider audience of gamers, gamers you need, not Nintendo Only fans and Casuals.

[Carbo]

Your avatar is hilarious.

[Remy]

Nintendoland was cited by many, many people I know of that went to E3 as a massive highlight. Despite err-ing to the casual side, it was cited as being genuinely fun without patronizing an entire base with reverence to Nintendo memorabilia.

Quite frankly I want to believe that as far as Nintendo party titles go, it's probably one of their better ideas in a while now. It's a good way to introduce new people to their franchises and it's just plain fun for everyone, despite not being a system seller.

That's good to hear. I didn't follow much of E3 outside of the conferences and a few games I was super interested in so I admit I was kind of in the dark on it's actual quality.

Here's hoping it rules

[Marcello]

We want a new Mario. Not some over-used, boring, series that has made my love for his games diminish. I would like to see one comment that said "I want a new NSMB!" NOBODY said that. We want a new 2D original MArio series. We wanted an innovative, refreshing 2D Mario, yet you have the audacity to give us not one, but two NSMB games released months between eachother!

I love how people act like we constantly get new NSMB games. Ignoring the two coming soon, it's been 3 years since the last NSMB and 2D Mario game. In that time we got 2 3D titles.

Speaking of Nintendoland, what is their incentive that casuals will be driven into other Nintendo IP's through that game? Just because they play a minigame or two doesn't mean they're gonna automatically gateway into the franchise. "Oh I like this minigame of Luigi's Mansion, but I'm not gonna buy the game, I just like this minigame" "Oh this Zelda minigame is fun, but the Zelda games look boring to me, not gonna buy them." You're trying to gain a wider audience through NintendoLand, and that's fine and all, except for one thing.

You change your game formulas/gimmicks too much. Someone who is expecting the Zelda games to play just like the minigame is going to be severley dissapointed, same with the people who play the Starfox game, F-Zero game, Donkey Kong game, etc. Hardocre gamers won't need it, as they can do research on their own and understand the franchises enough to know if the next game is good or not, and as such don't need a gateway. Casuals do however, and bringing them into NintendoLand, and expecting them to go straight to the next Main game of the series they like, and love it when in reality some may be turned off by how different it plays, or how hard it is, is dumb.

It's supposed to generate interest in series for new audiences, just like Smash Bros. Smash Bros did that with series like Kid Icarus and it worked despite having completely different gameplay. It's just an introduction.

[Remy]

It's supposed to generate interest in series for new audiences, just like Smash Bros. Smash Bros did that with series like Kid Icarus and it worked despite having completely different gameplay. It's just an introduction.

Melee also similarly was probably the reason for the resurgence of Fire Emblem in the west, alongside with SSB in general building a whole bunch of buzz for Mother/Earthbound that Nintendo never capitalised on

[Candescence]

I've been hearing nothing but good things about NintendoLand from people who have actually played it, and one article praised it as one of the few games in recent years to truly embrace and bring back the fun of local multiplayer, which has been sorely lacking this gen in favor of online.

NintendoLand in general is quite frankly a brilliant idea for generating interest in more 'hardcore' Nintendo franchises...

... Ugh, I'm really starting to loathe saying 'hardcore' and 'casual'. They're really stupid labels, IMO.

[Nintendoga]

I love how people act like we constantly get new NSMB games. Ignoring the two coming soon, it's been 3 years since the last NSMB and 2D Mario game. In that time we got 2 3D titles.

I could care less if it came out every year, if they put innovation and several differences and originality towards each title, besides one or two main differences "Oh it's NSMB, but with Co-op!" "Oh it's NSMB but with a coin gimmick!" "Oh it's NSMB, but in HD and slightly better graphics."

No changes to the gameplay, style, formula, or level tropes.

But I'm getting off topix

It's supposed to generate interest in series for new audiences, just like Smash Bros. Smash Bros did that with series like Kid Icarus and it worked despite having completely different gameplay. It's just an introduction.

But like Smash Bros, who's to say this will effectively boost franchise sales? What if Casuals don't like how Zelda games play but like the minigame? Same with the others. And I'm pretty sure PC/PS3 gamers aren't going to trade in their consoles to get a taste of Nintendurlend!

They brought back Kid Icarus because of his popularity, but what franchise is "gone" in NintendoLand? Starfox and F-Zero are the only ones really, and fans are already begging for a new game.

... Ugh, I'm really starting to loathe saying 'hardcore' and 'casual'. They're really stupid labels, IMO.

I agree, but is there another way we can refer to them?

Edited June 25, 2012 by Nintendoga

[Remy]

But like Smash Bros, who's to say this will effectively boost franchise sales? What if Casuals don't like how Zelda games play but like the minigame? Same with the others. And I'm pretty sure PC/PS3 gamers aren't going to trade in their consoles to get a taste of Nintendurlend!

They brought back Kid Icarus because of his popularity, but what franchise is "gone" in NintendoLand? Starfox and F-Zero are the only ones really, and fans are already begging for a new game.

I doubt anyone is going to petty enough to take issue with the Zelda gameplay, which is relatively inoffensive and fairly entertaining if they liked the characters enough in Nintendoland to buy a Zelda game in the first place. Regardless once they buy it it counts as a sale whether they like it or not

The 360/PC/PS3 market isn't what they're targeting with this either, I think their goal is to convert those that would normally buy a Wii for Wii Fit or maybe Mario into playing other Nintendo games as well, and if you look at it that way it's actually a pretty good idea. (the game is a nostalgia trip/nintendo love letter as well i guess)

... Ugh, I'm really starting to loathe saying 'hardcore' and 'casual'. They're really stupid labels, IMO.

Core is a marginally better label then hardcore but they still mostly suck. oh wellll not much we can do about it when we need to talk about stuff this way

[Candescence]

I could care less if it came out every year, if they put innovation and several differences and originality towards each title, besides one or two main differences "Oh it's NSMB, but with Co-op!" "Oh it's NSMB but with a coin gimmick!" "Oh it's NSMB, but in HD and slightly better graphics."

No changes to the gameplay, style, formula, or level tropes.

Hang on, I swear there was a trope for this, lemme check... Oh, yeah, here it is. Many, many games can be lumped into the same category as the NSMB games. And yet, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, it's practically Mega Man's bread and butter, for the most part. Hell, many people would actually prefer that devs would stick to what works without changing things dramatically.

Also, I see the words "no new level tropes", and raise you the Van Goh-inspired level in NSMBU.

[Nintendoga]

Hang on, I swear there was a trope for this, lemme check... Oh, yeah, here it is. Many, many games can be lumped into the same category as the NSMB games. And yet, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, it's practically Mega Man's bread and butter, for the most part. Hell, many people would actually prefer that devs would stick to what works without changing things dramatically.

I'm just not one of those people. I prefer to see new tropes and designs every sequel/new iteration.

Also, I see the words "no new level tropes", and raise you the Van Goh-inspired level in NSMBU.

I see your Van Goh-inspired level and raise you the majority of NSMB2.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Nintendoga

[Remy]

I see your Van Goh-inspired level and raise you the majority of NSMB2.

You can't judge NSMB:U by NSMB 2. That's like saying Sonic 3 is unimaginative because Aquatic Ruin is kinda boring. Or something

I'm drawing straws for examples but I hope the point got across

[Nintendoga]

You can't judge NSMB:U by NSMB 2. That's like saying Sonic 3 is unimaginative because Aquatic Ruin is kinda boring. Or something

I'm drawing straws for examples but I hope the point got across

More like judging the series, but at least they're doing something difference (graphically) with NSMBU

and Aquatic Ruin is boring

[Tails spin]

More like judging the series, but at least they're doing something difference (graphically) with NSMBU

and Aquatic Ruin is boring

I take it that you haven't seen the ruins level and ice level background design for NSMB2 yet haven't you.

[Nintendoga]

I have

Sorry for not being impressed

[Scar]

I don't really care how pretty the new backgrounds in NSMB2 are.

I really could not give a shit, the problem is as MD described "expansion pack sequels".

See, CoD and other shooters are getting railed into oblivion for releasing sequels that are basically the same mechanically to their predecessors and are no better than overly expensive DLC that comes in a disk.

Yet, when signs point to Nintendo going down that road with the NSMBx franchise, it gets away more or less scott free, or at least has defenders in their droves who are instantly captivated by Nostalgia and start pissing themselves when they show that some powerup (e.g Racoon Tail thing) from 20 years ago is getting a reprieve.