General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[MegasonicZX]

Not only that but what sort of " accessory" would be higher than the price of the console at the consoles release?

I can actually understand it though, I mean just look at the kinect. That thing wasn't even a console and it costed almost as much as the console that it released on at the time it came out and it turned out to be the worst thing ever so I can at least understand if people were wary about this when they see it.

[Sami]

I'm serious though. That box is WAY too huge to be for JUST an accessory. The marketing firm is still the number 1 problem, but it just boggles my mind.

I know you're serious. That's the sad part. Do you really think there's a drove of millions of customers at the store ready to "smarten up" and drop $300 on it as soon as they find out it's not an accessory?

It's been fifteen months, dude. At some point the denial has to stop. People aren't buying Wii U's because nobody wants one. Nobody knows it exists because nobody talks about it. Nobody talks about it because nobody cares. They've been airing those kids commercials for quite some time, and went as far as airing an ad that literally explained what it was in detail and it made no difference at all. Kids aren't asking their parents for Wii Us, and parents don't know of its existence as a result. The gamers who bought PS4s and XB1s are very well aware of what it is, but they don't care. It's not a product with any mass appeal.

And as an aside, I know it's a shitty feeling to like a product nobody gives a shit about. The Vita is a brilliantly designed, sophisticated dedicated handheld with some really great tech and a ton of legacy games to download thanks to backwards compatibility. It's a great device, but smartphones essentially render it useless to the public eye. There is no longer a market for sophisticated, premium dedicated handhelds. It sucks, but that's capitalism. At some point you just have to come to terms with it.

Enjoy it for what it is, but expecting sales to leap any time soon is setting yourself up for disappointment, and literally blaming stupid people for its failure comes off as so bitter it hurts.

[redhellc]

There's also the possibility that people know what it is and don't care or want one. I find it amusing that you're essentially blaming the system's shortcomings entirely on people being too stupid to know what it is. Classy.

Well I don't want to sound bad or anything, but if people continue to buy Wii U games to play on their Wii something is not right. I mean it clearly says on the box that it's for the Wii U.

[Sami]

Well I don't want to sound bad or anything, but if people continue to buy Wii U games to play on their Wii something is not right. I mean it clearly says on the box that it's for the Wii U.

It was definitely a problem at first, yeah, but I just think it's really naive to say with a straight face "Wii U isn't doing well yet because people still don't know what it is". It's silly.

[Indigo Rush]

https://twitter.com/BenParfitt/status/453550188532342785

 

The Wii U is now as old as the Dreamcast was when it was killed off. It has sold around half the number Dreamcast had by this point. 

 

That's... not good.

[redhellc]

It was definitely a problem at first, yeah, but I just think it's really naive to say with a straight face "Wii U isn't doing well yet because people still don't know what it is". It's silly.

Yeah I agree, but it's still a problem that Nintendo needs to deal with.

[FourCartridge]

https://twitter.com/BenParfitt/status/453550188532342785

 

 

That's... not good.

 

Holy shit. Well, better luck next time... If there is one and Nintendo isn't simply prepping to leave the industry in the next few years or so. You guys think that may actually happen?

[canderson]

https://twitter.com/BenParfitt/status/453550188532342785

 

 

That's... not good.

Wow, that's something I did not know about. It's really tracking below the Dreamcast in the US?

Eh, not much to say, except hopefully they'll make some major changes in the coming years.

[Gabz Girl]

Holy crap, that's a sad situation. <=/ Doesn't mean Nintendo is going to discontinue the Wii U though cos that would be fucking stupid. Not to mention SEGA was having loads of problems within the company before the Dreamcast was even released. Nothing wrong with Nintendo so...why stop now?

Anyway, I wish Nintendo could do some sort of reboot of the console like Sony did with the PS3. Change the logo, the boxes, anything to make it stand out!

[Sami]

All I can say is that I hope they're paying attention to why the PS4 is as much of an overwhelming success as it is, but with Iwata at the helm I can't say I'm optimistic.

[azoo]

Holy crap, that's a sad situation. <=/ Doesn't mean Nintendo is going to discontinue the Wii U though cos that would be fucking stupid. Not to mention SEGA was having loads of problems within the company before the Dreamcast was even released. Nothing wrong with Nintendo so...why stop now?

 

Considering that Sega's story behind DC kicking the bucket had to mostly do with the billions of dollars in debt they were in for 32X, Sega CD and Saturn combined with PS2 hitting them in the face with a DVD player.. it's a different story than the Wii U's slip up after a decent track record and loadsamoney in the bank, and because of that it'll definitely have a different outcome, even if DC's success was much more prominent than the Wii U's is during the same timespan.

 

 

 

Anyway, I wish Nintendo could do some sort of reboot of the console like Sony did with the PS3. Change the logo, the boxes, anything to make it stand out!

 

I'm not doubting that they will. Nintendo can't pretend this is doing them any good, so they're probably going to at least somewhat change face with the console before it's run is through (probably before the end of this year, even).

 

Of course, that's going to mean "make lots and lots of games people will care about" too, so the success of a PS3-level rebranding really all depends on how well they back that up.

 

All I can say is that I hope they're paying attention to why the PS4 is as much of an overwhelming success as it is, but with Iwata at the helm I can't say I'm optimistic.

 

Isn't PS4's success halfway being how powerful and capable it is, and the other half riding on the hype train / expectations of what PS3 gave in it's second inning?

[Sami]

Isn't PS4's success halfway being how powerful and capable it is, and the other half riding on the hype train / expectations of what PS3 gave in it's second inning?

 

I don't think it's fair at all to dismiss it as just "riding the hype train", though I'm sure that's not a surprising statement to hear from me. Setting aside my very distinct preference for Sony's software output and the unique style their hardware always takes, the reasons for the PS4's success are overwhelmingly clear:

 

• Very clear, concise messaging. People know what the PS4 is, what the focus is (games), and what Sony's vision is for this generation.
• An extremely well designed machine. It's the most powerful console out there currently, looks very sleek and sophisticated, and feels like a big leap from the previous generation (OS is extremely fast in comparison to what we're used to, feels great)
• Tons of games. Right now, still very early into its life, the PS4 already has 214 games available to play. It's the best console to play the newest Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Battlefield, Madden, NBA, Need for Speed, and so forth. Big exclusives are still low in number, but more are on the way and we'll surely hear more about them at E3. 
• Very developer-friendly. This is the same thing that gave the PS1 the edge over the N64 way back in the mid-nineties. Sony specifically spoke to and catered their design around the wants and needs of third party developers. If developers like making games for it, consumers will like playing more games on it. Just like the 360 last gen, the PS4 is the system to play all the newest games on regardless of who's developing them. 
• Value. $400 isn't cheap, but for what you're buying the value proposition is great. No Kinect or GamePad jacking up the price of cheaper hardware, you get exactly what you pay for with no strings attached.

Both the PS4 and Xbox One are selling at only a marginal loss in comparison to the last generation, and I see no reason why this approach is out of Nintendo's hand financially.

[MegasonicZX]

I don't think it's fair at all to dismiss it as just "riding the hype train", though I'm sure that's not a surprising statement to hear from me. Setting aside my very distinct preference for Sony's software output and the unique style their hardware always takes, the reasons for the PS4's success are overwhelmingly clear:

 

• Very clear, concise messaging. People know what the PS4 is, what the focus is (games), and what Sony's vision is for this generation.
• An extremely well designed machine. It's the most powerful console out there currently, looks very sleek and sophisticated, and feels like a big leap from the previous generation (OS is extremely fast in comparison to what we're used to, feels great)
• Tons of games. Right now, still very early into its life, the PS4 already has 214 games available to play. It's the best console to play the newest Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Battlefield, Madden, NBA, Need for Speed, and so forth. Big exclusives are still low in number, but more are on the way and we'll surely hear more about them at E3. 
• Very developer-friendly. This is the same thing that gave the PS1 the edge over the N64 way back in the mid-nineties. Sony specifically spoke to and catered their design around the wants and needs of third party developers. If developers like making games for it, consumers will like playing more games on it. Just like the 360 last gen, the PS4 is the system to play all the newest games on regardless of who's developing them. 
• Value. $400 isn't cheap, but for what you're buying the value proposition is great. No Kinect or GamePad jacking up the price of cheaper hardware, you get exactly what you pay for with no strings attached.

Both the PS4 and Xbox One are selling at only a marginal loss in comparison to the last generation, and I see no reason why this approach is out of Nintendo's hand financially.

Yeah but can you honestly say that its showing at E3 (and the xbox one being quite crummy back then) didn't have a big impact on that, cause even despite the fact that wii u is cheaper and has a bigger log of games at this point (not counting games from last gen or any rereleases) it also has some pretty good ones coming on the way while i've yet to see anything of relevance coming out for PS4 in the coming future (then again im not a big fan of sports and shooter games so I might be a bit biased with this).

 

Sure the features and stuff might be a big draw to it but popularity seems to be the big deciding factor here and sony just happened to have an easy time winning in it so that they could come out on top.

[Sami]

Yeah but can you honestly say that its showing at E3 (and the xbox one being quite crummy back then) didn't have a big impact on that, cause even despite the fact that wii u is cheaper and has a bigger log of games at this point (not counting games from last gen or any rereleases) it also has some pretty good ones coming on the way while i've yet to see anything of relevance coming out for PS4 in the coming future (then again im not a big fan of sports and shooter games so I might be a bit biased with this).

 

Sure the features and stuff might be a big draw to it but popularity seems to be the big deciding factor here and sony just happened to have an easy time winning in it so that they could come out on top.

 

I can't help but feel like there's some cognitive dissonance at play here as a result of your (and many of us in general, including me) lack of care for the currently popular genres. How is there nothing of relevance coming to PS4 in the future? It's getting Uncharted 4, The Order 1866, Destiny, Assassins Creed Unity, The Crew, Watch_Dogs, Final Fantasy XV, and a bunch of other stuff that's very relevant to some really large markets in the gaming space. 

 

I just can't wrap my head around the conclusion that "the PS4 is mostly just doing well because it's popular and hyped". Popularity and hype don't just magically grace a single random consumer product every few years - it's doing a lot of things right, and that's why it's reaching the heights of success that it is.

 

Again, I ask, how is that out of line for Nintendo?

[Candescence]

That being said, aren't attach rates for the PS4 and XBone rather poor? That's what I've heard, anyway.

[MegasonicZX]

I can't help but feel like there's some cognitive dissonance at play here as a result of your (and many of us in general, including me) lack of care for the currently popular genres. How is there nothing of relevance coming to PS4 in the future? It's getting Uncharted 4, The Order 1866, Destiny, Assassins Creed Unity, The Crew, Watch_Dogs, Final Fantasy XV, and a bunch of other stuff that's very relevant to some really large markets in the gaming space. 

 

I just can't wrap my head around the conclusion that "the PS4 is mostly just doing well because it's popular and hyped". Popularity and hype don't just magically grace a single random consumer product every few years - it's doing a lot of things right, and that's why it's reaching the heights of success that it is.

 

Again, I ask, how is that out of line for Nintendo?

I don't know, it just seems like nintendo has a lot more to bring to the table to me for the moment though admittedly hearing that all laid out does make me remember that we do have a fair bit of things coming to the PS4 too.

[FourCartridge]

That being said, aren't attach rates for the PS4 and XBone rather poor? That's what I've heard, anyway.

 

2.8 including digital, last time I checked. Seems pretty poor to me too. Then again, most stuff I have on mine is from PS+...

[Sami]

That being said, aren't attach rates for the PS4 and XBone rather poor? That's what I've heard, anyway.

 

Both the PS4 and XB1 are hovering at roughly 2.9. For this point in their life cycles that's solid, but not spectacular. Not bad or anything.

 

 

I don't know, it just seems like nintendo has a lot more to bring to the table to me for the moment though admittedly hearing that all laid out does make me remember that we do have a fair bit of things coming to the PS4 too.

 

Oh, I understand that. That said, I don't think it's fair to discount those games merely due to the fact that our tastes lie in more niche genres. On the flipside, it's no secret that over time I've grown rather disillusioned by Nintendo's first party output (the only Wii U games that I'm definitely sure to buy on release are Mario Kart and Smash Bros), but that's no reason to dismiss the entire library. The real problem lies with the popularity of the games being released. 

 

I'm sure that just about all of us can agree that Mario 3D World is a better game than Battlefield, but the fact of the matter is that one of those games is leaps and bounds more popular with the mainstream market than the other. In an age where first party exclusives have grown less and less important in comparison to AAA multiplats, Nintendo simply can not afford to brush them off.

 

With the exception of Titanfall, I can't think of a single recent or upcoming major AAA game that isn't available on PS4. The same really can't be said for Wii U, and that's a bigger deal than you may think it is. Both the Xbox One and PS4 have a lot more games than people seem to be giving them credit for. Both of them, from day one, had the newest editions of Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Need for Speed, FIFA, NBA 2K, Madden, Skylanders, and more, with other notable stuff like Thief, Titanfall, and inFamous being released since.

 

Again, I have to emphasize that popularity doesn't just magically appear. The signs are there and it's very easy to read why both the XB1 and PS4 are leaps and bounds more relevant to the market than the Wii U.

[azoo]

I don't think it's fair at all to dismiss it as just "riding the hype train", though I'm sure that's not a surprising statement to hear from me. Setting aside my very distinct preference for Sony's software output and the unique style their hardware always takes, the reasons for the PS4's success are overwhelmingly clear:

 

• Very clear, concise messaging. People know what the PS4 is, what the focus is (games), and what Sony's vision is for this generation.
• An extremely well designed machine. It's the most powerful console out there currently, looks very sleek and sophisticated, and feels like a big leap from the previous generation (OS is extremely fast in comparison to what we're used to, feels great)
• Tons of games. Right now, still very early into its life, the PS4 already has 214 games available to play. It's the best console to play the newest Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Battlefield, Madden, NBA, Need for Speed, and so forth. Big exclusives are still low in number, but more are on the way and we'll surely hear more about them at E3. 
• Very developer-friendly. This is the same thing that gave the PS1 the edge over the N64 way back in the mid-nineties. Sony specifically spoke to and catered their design around the wants and needs of third party developers. If developers like making games for it, consumers will like playing more games on it. Just like the 360 last gen, the PS4 is the system to play all the newest games on regardless of who's developing them. 
• Value. $400 isn't cheap, but for what you're buying the value proposition is great. No Kinect or GamePad jacking up the price of cheaper hardware, you get exactly what you pay for with no strings attached.

Both the PS4 and Xbox One are selling at only a marginal loss in comparison to the last generation, and I see no reason why this approach is out of Nintendo's hand financially.

 

But all of these points were what brought PS3 back on the market as the greatest last-gen console when it started to re-advertise itself and make a new face. And since the PS4 pretty much did the exact same thing as PS3 did but with higher tech and new ideas, that's where it's success comes from.

 

That's what I meant by the "following the hype train / expectations of what the PS3 gave in it's second inning"; because fans expected everything great about the PS3 but cranked up to eleven, and Sony delivered. People could trust Sony to give them the same magic as last time.

 

Nintendo could easily pull most of these things off if they got around to it this year at E3. They could get a lot of the already announced / mentioned games out the door by the end of this year and announce a massive barrage that's to come next year (as rumored Metroid and TBA Zelda would spearhead), enhance the OS to be more user-friendly and redirect the entire message of what type of machine this thing is.

 

They can't just pull a PS4 level success out of their bums with the Wii U though. What they have to do is at least match the PS3 in terms of how it was completely revitalized to the public eye (even if it doesn't mean third party comes rolling back in). And given what I just described, they can definitely do it if they just take advantage of where they stand.

[Sami]

But all of these points were what brought PS3 back on the market as the greatest last-gen console when it started to re-advertise itself and make a new face. And since the PS4 pretty much did the exact same thing as PS3 did but with higher tech and new ideas, that's where it's success comes from.

 

That's what I meant by the "following the hype train / expectations of what the PS3 gave in it's second inning"; because fans expected everything great about the PS3 but cranked up to eleven, and Sony delivered. People could trust Sony to give them the same magic as last time.

 

Nintendo could easily pull most of these things off if they got around to it this year at E3. They could get a lot of the already announced / mentioned games out the door by the end of this year and announce a massive barrage that's to come next year (as rumored Metroid and TBA Zelda would spearhead), enhance the OS to be more user-friendly and redirect the entire message of what type of machine this thing is.

 

They can't just pull a PS4 level success out of their bums with the Wii U though. What they have to do is at least match the PS3 in terms of how it was completely revitalized to the public eye (even if it doesn't mean third party comes rolling back in). And given what I just described, they can definitely do it if they just take advantage of where they stand.

 

A new face won't make the base hardware any better, though. The only scenario in which I can imagine there'd be any actually notable change in perception is if Nintendo cuts their losses on the GamePad and slashes the price by another hundred dollars (or more, considering how the dozens and dozens of massive retail-specific sales we've seen this year and last did absolutely nothing). Without being dirt cheap, I don't see how the Wii U could actually get any attention when it's already living in the shadows of two much more popular consoles. On top of that, the PS3 already had third party support on its side, something that literally will not be possible on Wii U once Gen 8 exclusive games start rolling in.

 

The Wii U is in a much, much worse position than the PS3 ever was. Literally the only truly common comparison between the two is that they were both the least popular of their generation. More power to you if you think Nintendo can turn it around, but I don't believe that's possible, nor do I think trying would pay off at all.

[Autosaver]

"Next Gen" overall has been very disappointing. I don't think I can name one big exclusive that has marked new territory. Everything keeps getting delayed and production is taking forever.

[Sami]

To be fair it's barely even begun yet. For what it's worth, the guys on Giant Bomb seemed super impressed with Batman Arkham Knight. Once more Gen 8 exclusives start releasing I think we'll start seeing much bigger leaps. The tech is certainly there to make that possible.

[Kaabiitorori]

 

https://twitter.com/BenParfitt/status/453550188532342785

 

 

That's... not good.

 

I’m sorry but not only that tweet made an unfair comparison but an inaccurate one as well. Allow me to elaborate my point.

 

The tweet is most likely referring to the North American launch of the Dreamcast (9^th September 1999) rather than the Japanese one (27^th November 1998) so first off, there’s a 10-month difference between both releases. Now keeping that in mind, the Dreamcast was officially discontinued in March 2001: the console lasted 2 years and 4 months if we count the Japanese release date whereas the American release made it last up to 1 year and 6 months. How many units did the Dreamcast sell during its lifespan? 10.6 million.

 

Now let’s take a look at the Wii U. The Wii U came out on the 18^th November 2012 in North America, with the European and Japanese releases coming out on the 30^th November and 8^th December respectively. So far the console has been in the market for exactly a year and 5 months. So while the amount of time released in the market is closer to the Dreamcast’s when it came out in North America it is very unfair to neglect the Japanese release since it’s after all the market it was first launched: there’s still about 11 months to go until the Wii U reaches the exact lifetime the Dreamcast had.

 

How many units has the Wii U sold so far? According to official numbers, 5.83 million as of 31^st December 2013 (end of Q3 FY 2013-14), but taking a wild guess the console must have perfectly breached past the 6 million units by early January, possibly being even around 6.5 million by the end of their fiscal year (31^st March), although we gotta wait for their next financial report which should be out in a couple of weeks’ time for proper accurate data. Still, that’s without its two big hitters of 2014 (Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros) being released out yet, so there’s still almost a year to go to see how these numbers will improve by then. However, if the Wii U doesn't at least double the amount of their current number of units sold (say, 12 million units) by the end of their next fiscal year (31^st March 2015), then it’ll be something to worry about.

 

As for March's NPD numbers… on the one hand they may not be impressive at all, but on the other hand I am impressed at how it managed to sell slightly more units compared to last year in the same month despite the fact that there weren't any major releases for the console in that month. I expect April and May to be a similar situation but it’ll be interesting to see how it will perform once Mario Kart 8 rolls out. Although keep in mind NPD don't take every store into account when counting sales so I'd rather wait for Nintendo's financial report to get proper accurate sales data.

[PSI Wind]

Don't see how they can make the OS user friendly when it's basically the least cluttered OS and everything can be moved and easily put on the first page of the 4 tabs. If anything, it needs folders like the 3DS. Also, wouldn't removing the GamePad still show Nintendo has no faith? And speaking of the GamePad, I find it hilarious that devs went "we don't know what to do with the GamePad" but still make things that use the Vita and SmartGlass in basically the same way.

[azoo]

A new face won't make the base hardware any better, though. The only scenario in which I can imagine there'd be any actually notable change in perception is if Nintendo cuts their losses on the GamePad and slashes the price by another hundred dollars (or more, considering how the dozens and dozens of massive retail-specific sales we've seen this year and last did absolutely nothing). Without being dirt cheap, I don't see how the Wii U could actually get any attention when it's already living in the shadows of two much more popular consoles. On top of that, the PS3 already had third party support on its side, something that literally will not be possible on Wii U once Gen 8 exclusive games start rolling in.

 

The Wii U is in a much, much worse position than the PS3 ever was. Literally the only truly common comparison between the two is that they were both the least popular of their generation. More power to you if you think Nintendo can turn it around, but I don't believe that's possible, nor do I think trying would pay off at all.

 

Whether the Wii U is in a much worse position than the PS3 ever was is irrelevant. What I was saying when I said "PS3-level success" is in relativity. It may not reach the same amount of popularity or acclaim as PS3 did (since that title belongs and will continue belonging to the PS4 for the rest of the gen, I'm sure), but it will certainly help things turn around for the good of it all.

 

And they really do not need to drop the Gamepad. Make it optional, yes, but no to removing it. That's the last of whatever identity this console has. If you think they shouldn't even worry about making that many games for it as well as removing the Gamepad aspect for costs, you're basically giving it a quick death instead of a slow one. Who would want an (apparently) largely inferior console with just a bare few games, even if it's only $199?

 

Whatever you want though, Nintendo's not just gonna drop the console. Might as well try to make the best of this console. Remember the "trust" thing I was talking about with when PS3 picked itself up and made people know PS4 was worth caring about? Nintendo could be spending the rest of this gen buffing up this console with a really big library and a new direction, gaining that trust, and then catch up next gen.

 

Dropping prematurely out and coming back in a few years doesn't guarantee change. Learning, accepting, and fixing mistakes, all while continuing to do what you do best does.