General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Kaabiitorori]

Whether the Wii U is in a much worse position than the PS3 ever was is irrelevant. What I was saying when I said "PS3-level success" is in relativity. It may not reach the same amount of popularity or acclaim as PS3 did (since that title belongs and will continue belonging to the PS4 for the rest of the gen, I'm sure), but it will certainly help things turn around for the good of it all.

 

And they really do not need to drop the Gamepad. Make it optional, yes, but no to removing it. That's the last of whatever identity this console has. If you think they shouldn't even worry about making that many games for it as well as removing the Gamepad aspect for costs, you're basically giving it a quick death instead of a slow one. Who would want an (apparently) largely inferior console with just a bare few games, even if it's only $199?

 

Whatever you want though, Nintendo's not just gonna drop the console. Might as well try to make the best of this console. Remember the "trust" thing I was talking about with when PS3 picked itself up and made people know PS4 was worth caring about? Nintendo could be spending the rest of this gen buffing up this console with a really big library and a new direction, gaining that trust, and then catch up next gen.

 

Dropping prematurely out and coming back in a few years doesn't guarantee change. Learning, accepting, and fixing mistakes, all while continuing to do what you do best does.

 

Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly. To me the bottom line of this is that Nintendo is at least trying to turn the Wii U around rather than giving up, and from a business and customer point of view that's the only option they have if they want to keep themselves afloat and remain their consumer trust. Things like ditching out the Gamepad won't make anything good for the console, that's for sure.

 

All you need to do is take a look at what it has been said at the last investor's meeting to have an insight of what Nintendo will do in the short, medium and long-term with their current systems and future plans. I'd like to see how will they take further advantage of the Gamepad as they mentioned back in February, I'd like to see new improvements over the Wii U OS, and most importantly, I'd like to see what Nintendo will have ready for us on E3 in June with more and more games.

 

Outside of the latest Mario Kart 8 trailer, the Smash Bros Direct and the Tomodachi Life Mini Direct they have been pretty quiet lately though, so I wonder what they may be working behind the scenes, hmmm...

[Sami]

I’m sorry but not only that tweet made an unfair comparison but an inaccurate one as well. Allow me to elaborate my point.

 

The tweet is most likely referring to the North American launch of the Dreamcast (9^th September 1999) rather than the Japanese one (27^th November 1998) so first off, there’s a 10-month difference between both releases. Now keeping that in mind, the Dreamcast was officially discontinued in March 2001: the console lasted 2 years and 4 months if we count the Japanese release date whereas the American release made it last up to 1 year and 6 months. How many units did the Dreamcast sell during its lifespan? 10.6 million.

 

Now let’s take a look at the Wii U. The Wii U came out on the 18^th November 2012 in North America, with the European and Japanese releases coming out on the 30^th November and 8^th December respectively. So far the console has been in the market for exactly a year and 5 months. So while the amount of time released in the market is closer to the Dreamcast’s when it came out in North America it is very unfair to neglect the Japanese release since it’s after all the market it was first launched: there’s still about 11 months to go until the Wii U reaches the exact lifetime the Dreamcast had.

 

How many units has the Wii U sold so far? According to official numbers, 5.83 million as of 31^st December 2013 (end of Q3 FY 2013-14), but taking a wild guess the console must have perfectly breached past the 6 million units by early January, possibly being even around 6.5 million by the end of their fiscal year (31^st March), although we gotta wait for their next financial report which should be out in a couple of weeks’ time for proper accurate data. Still, that’s without its two big hitters of 2014 (Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros) being released out yet, so there’s still almost a year to go to see how these numbers will improve by then. However, if the Wii U doesn't at least double the amount of their current number of units sold (say, 12 million units) by the end of their next fiscal year (31^st March 2015), then it’ll be something to worry about.

 

As for March's NPD numbers… on the one hand they may not be impressive at all, but on the other hand I am impressed at how it managed to sell slightly more units compared to last year in the same month despite the fact that there weren't any major releases for the console in that month. I expect April and May to be a similar situation but it’ll be interesting to see how it will perform once Mario Kart 8 rolls out. Although keep in mind NPD don't take every store into account when counting sales so I'd rather wait for Nintendo's financial report to get proper accurate sales data.

Why not just compare the sales in North America and Europe? Both of those together account for quite a bit larger of a percentage of the total international sales than Japan alone. I doubt you'd get a more favorable result.

Beyond that, your suggestion of waiting ten months for a "true comparison" makes no sense, and is completely biased towards the Wii U. That'd be a whole ten extra months in which the Wii U was available worldwide in order to properly compare with the ten months in which the Dreamcast was exclusively available in Japan. How is that at all fair?

Whether the Wii U is in a much worse position than the PS3 ever was is irrelevant. What I was saying when I said "PS3-level success" is in relativity. It may not reach the same amount of popularity or acclaim as PS3 did (since that title belongs and will continue belonging to the PS4 for the rest of the gen, I'm sure), but it will certainly help things turn around for the good of it all.

 

And they really do not need to drop the Gamepad. Make it optional, yes, but no to removing it. That's the last of whatever identity this console has. If you think they shouldn't even worry about making that many games for it as well as removing the Gamepad aspect for costs, you're basically giving it a quick death instead of a slow one. Who would want an (apparently) largely inferior console with just a bare few games, even if it's only $199?

 

Whatever you want though, Nintendo's not just gonna drop the console. Might as well try to make the best of this console. Remember the "trust" thing I was talking about with when PS3 picked itself up and made people know PS4 was worth caring about? Nintendo could be spending the rest of this gen buffing up this console with a really big library and a new direction, gaining that trust, and then catch up next gen.

 

Dropping prematurely out and coming back in a few years doesn't guarantee change. Learning, accepting, and fixing mistakes, all while continuing to do what you do best does.

On the flip side, who's going to be sold on a largely inferior $300 console purely as a result of a silly screen that hardly anyone to this day has given half a shit about?

You're absolutely right that I'm suggesting a quick death rather than a slow one, because as an owner of both a Wii U and 3DS I think that Nintendo would be better off not wasting any more time, money, and resources on a poorly designed, overpriced, confused mess of a system that has extremely little to no chance of ever turning a profit in the face of two much stronger and more popular competitors. I do not believe that there is any hope for the Wii U of ever reaching any higher than the GameCube, and I'd rather they put their effort into making a better product next time, rather than putting a poor one on life support until its slow, pathetic death.

[azoo]

On the flip side, who's going to be sold on a largely inferior $300 console purely as a result of a silly screen that hardly anyone to this day has given half a shit about?

 

There hasn't been a point to care about it when there's little to no games that exist to use it, and whatever games have used it have treated it like a gimmick instead of emphasizing that it could be used for off-TV play.

 

I know you're dead set on the death of the Wii U, and even though you own one I can't see one way that makes your point of view justified. Of course I'd love for A Nintendo PS4 like you want, but they're not gonna just drop this... whatever they got.. and just do that immediately! You keep thinking that you're being realistic but those expectations are just too dang much, man. 

 

They have to work up from here. Dropping what they have and making something completely new after the other two competitors have already picked up momentum and the userbase already wasted money on Wii Us and Nintendo wasted time producing them and shelving whatever they could of them in stores, while also sliding the few games that have existed on this console that these developers have spent several years at a time making under the rug would be a waste of time and money. Sure, you could always argue that it'd be their big turnaround that you and I both know we really want (and that this idea of keeping the U is just as much of a time/money suck), but trying to convince someone to get this console after they've already made their decision and all this time has been blundered up would do nothing!

 

And it'd burn bridges, and it'd be a total mess, and once again we'll be prancing around screeching "Nintendoomed" as PS5 and XbTwo come in a year or two later trumping Nintendo yet again on visual, technical, and accessibility prowess.

 

Whatever overtly nasty thing you gotta say about the console, the Wii U can save itself. I believe in it! Because even if at highest success it only amounts to the same level as the Gamecube, I don't think people would mind that much. After all, even with it's lack of massive overtowering financial success, it still managed to be modestly successful while giving the people what they wanted, maintaining a big cult following. And that's all they can do right now if they really want to keep their integrity.

[Jolt_TH]

The way I see it, no matter what they do, they have to ride the console out for as long as possible, releasing a "next gen" console now would just put them behind again when the next PS and XB consoles come out with better hardware, unless they make ANOTHER one around that time, which would be financial suicide!

 

They have to ride this thing out for as long as possible in order to make a console that can directly compete with Playstation and Microsoft next gen

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Plus, wasn't one of the reasons the Dreamcast ended up getting screwed in the long term because SEGA lost the faith of their fans due to putting out two rushed consoles/addons/somethings before? This would be Dreamcast 2.0 if Nintendo started doing the same thing.

[Indigo Rush]

Siding with Azu on this one. Dropping the Wii U out this early would be the dumbest thing they could ever do aside from dropping out of the console market and into cell phone games as a whole. The Wii U is not, and will not, sell much better than it has now, but that doesn't mean that dropping out this early is a better solution. It's not. 

[Kaabiitorori]

Why not just compare the sales in North America and Europe? Both of those together account for quite a bit larger of a percentage of the total international sales than Japan alone. I doubt you'd get a more favorable result.

Beyond that, your suggestion of waiting ten months for a "true comparison" makes no sense, and is completely biased towards the Wii U. That'd be a whole ten extra months in which the Wii U was available worldwide in order to properly compare with the ten months in which the Dreamcast was exclusively available in Japan. How is that at all fair?

 

Excuse me but... why did you think my suggestion was bias towards the Wii U in the first place? All I asked was a fair comparison of overall sales between Wii U and Dreamcast when the former meets the lifetime of the latter (about 2 years and a half), which will be by around March 2015. Bias would be comparing overall sales of the Wii U and the Dreamcast when the former has been discontinued, in which most likely not only it will be the double of what the Dreamcast managed to live for before it was discontinued but it will have far more superior total sales.

 

My point is that what he tweeted wasn't accurate and wasn't fair because he didn't specify what I mentioned before: the fact that the Dreamcast was released first in Japan, which should be acknowledged in the first place. He compared the current sales of the Wii U, a console that has sold around 6 million in 1 year and 4 months, with the lifetime sales of the Dreamcast, 10.6 million in 2 years and 4 months. Please read his tweet again and understand what I am trying to say...

 

The Wii U is now as old as the Dreamcast was when it was killed off. It has sold around half the number Dreamcast had by this point. 

 

Which it's totally incorrect: the Wii U is NOT as old as the Dreamcast was when it was killed off because, again, the Wii U is exactly 1 year and 4 months old compared to when the Dreamcast was officially discontinued which made it last for 2 years and 4 months. However, if he specified the North American sales figure for both the Wii U and the Dreamcast, it would have been a more fair and correct approach since the Dreamcast sold 4.28 million in its 1 year and 6 months on the market whereas the Wii U within near the same amount of time managed to sell 2.61 million, but he didn't seem to have specified so. Hence the point I was trying to elaborate in my previous post.

[Indigo Rush]

If I had known it was inaccurate, I wouldn't have shared it. I'm sorry for causing trouble here.

[Kaabiitorori]

If I had known it was inaccurate, I wouldn't have shared it. I'm sorry for causing trouble here.

 

Oh gosh, no need to be sorry! It was alright sharing this. I just thought the info said on his tweet was inaccurate from my point of view, but my post was not directed to you sharing the info, not at all. So yeah, it's cool, man. =D

[PSI Wind]

Nintendo is already starting work on a new console. Mostly in the concept phase with little idea on where to go. Those few years in the Wii where little was made? That was when Nintendo was focusing a lot on the Wii U development and game development. Of course, they won't be releasing it until the next 4 or 5 years depending on how long this gen goes. Learning from mistakes is a good thing, but you don't do it immediately. Has Sony stopped supporting the Vita? No, and they're in MUCH worse shape than Nintendo will be in the next 10 years or so with the amount of dosh they got in the bank. Did Sony give up on the PS3? No, and not only that, they made it into the powerhouse that everyone remembers for it now. NO ONE expected it to recover except the hopeful Sony fans who kept waiting and waiting, and now that ball is on the Nintendo fans side and you're telling them to do the opposite of what those Sony fans did. And Iwata has already admitted in fucking up. He even has NoA working on research for the US.

 

The Wii U right now is basically how the Gamecube was. It's selling poorly but the people who DO own it found plenty of amazing games either already there or upcoming. 

[Sami]

Apologies for the very short reply, just got back from work after requesting to go home early. Feeling really sick and lying in bed now, but I didn't want people to think I just came in to fling shit and say bold statements before disappearing.

I understand the SEGA Saturn comparison and have heard it many times, so I'm aware of the consequence of losing consumer goodwill. In regards to that, I think taking a subtle path would be a smart course of action so as not to seem too quick to dump the system. What I think would be smart would be to continue development of all public ally and internally existing games currently under works for the system on schedule, but to stop greenlighting any projects beyond that. From there, announce and release either the QoL platform or 3DS successor as soon as possible, with every team that's not currently working on a Wii U or 3DS game shifting to those. EAD just released their new Mario - how cool would it be to have a full fledged, hyped up, genuinely great Mario from them launch with the new handheld? The odds are against them now, so they need to hit the ground running with these two platforms in order to gain consumer confidence and interest quickly. In the meantime, commission developers (like Platinum) to make cross-platform games for Wii U and 4DS to keep a decent income of games that year. By 2016, stop working on Wii U completely and focus all effort on it's successor and the handheld for the time.

Forgive typos or weird statements there. Like I said, tired and sick.

Kaabi, I understand perfectly well what you're saying, but the problem is that your suggestion makes no sense mathematically. You're arguing that it's inaccurate to use the Dreamcast's international launch as the basis for the comparison, as it had an extra nine months on the Japanese market before that. That's all well and good, but then the conclusion you come to, that we should wait ten more months to compare, is baffling. That would be ten more international months for Wii U added to compensate for 10 months in Japan for Dreamcast. If anything, a better suggestion would be to wait one or two months, as the accumulated sales of the entire world will be on a much larger scale than Japan alone.

Will write properly tomorrow. Sorry again.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Keep the screen though. Make it an optional like the Classic Controller, sure, but the screen is great.

[Indigo Rush]

I would opt for a game-pad that has a screen the size of the 3DS XL, so it's still pretty size-able, but it's small enough to make for a more comfy and ergonomic fit than it already is. Basically, a game controller that has a screen moreso than a tablet that happens to have buttons on it, if that makes any sense.

 

And 720-1080p, multitouch, haptic feedback and whatnot, yeah.

[JaidynReiman]

To be honest, I think instead of having a Gamepad next-gen, they'd just make the next handheld console the replacement for the Gamepad. Nintendo has already said they're going to make their hardware compatible in the future. I don't see why they couldn't allow the next-gen handheld hardware to not only act on its own, but also act as a Gamepad, so they won't need to create a new "Gamepad" in the future.

 

They can just bundle a regular controller in with the system and if players want a Gamepad, the next-gen handheld will fill in that niche (also allowing the console's games to be played on the handheld off-console of course) but also work as its own handheld console which can get its own games, and those games could also be played on the TV too. Personally I think that's the best compromise.

[Autosaver]

To be fair it's barely even begun yet. For what it's worth, the guys on Giant Bomb seemed super impressed with Batman Arkham Knight. Once more Gen 8 exclusives start releasing I think we'll start seeing much bigger leaps. The tech is certainly there to make that possible.

Didn't the 360 and PS3 both have a big seller in a short time? I know that there's going to be good games down the line, but anything coming in the next coming months?

[Salamander]

To be honest, I think instead of having a Gamepad next-gen, they'd just make the next handheld console the replacement for the Gamepad. Nintendo has already said they're going to make their hardware compatible in the future. I don't see why they couldn't allow the next-gen handheld hardware to not only act on its own, but also act as a Gamepad, so they won't need to create a new "Gamepad" in the future.

 

They can just bundle a regular controller in with the system and if players want a Gamepad, the next-gen handheld will fill in that niche (also allowing the console's games to be played on the handheld off-console of course) but also work as its own handheld console which can get its own games, and those games could also be played on the TV too. Personally I think that's the best compromise.

 

This is 100% what I want out of Nintendo's next console - for the main console to be a power-bumping, TV-enabling add-on to the handheld, or conversely, for the handheld to be a much fancier, more portable GamePad.  Cross-compatibility and cross-buy on everything would also vastly increase the game library on each system.

 

What Nintendo needs to do, though, is commit to the GamePad if they intend to stick with the concept, since they simply aren't doing much with it.  They need to go into their consoles with a plan, rather than just "this is a neat idea, I wonder what people will do with it?"  They need to show us what their console is for and keep showing us.  Making the GamePad into the new handheld might give them a conceptual leg-up there, though - if it's not just for off-TV play but for anywhere-play.

 

Also, to be honest they probably should set an internal release date and then delay it by six months in order to build up an actual launch library.  Can't believe they made exactly the same mistakes with the Wii U as with the 3DS.

[Jix Hedgehog]

X

Edited August 15, 2015 by Jix Hedgehog

[Sami]

Didn't the 360 and PS3 both have a big seller in a short time? I know that there's going to be good games down the line, but anything coming in the next coming months?

If memory serves, I think it'd be fair to call Gears of War the first true "next gen" game last time, with it being the first game that really got the ball rolling on 360. As for PS4 and XB1, I think The Order 1886 looks pretty rad.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

 

I’m sorry but not only that tweet made an unfair comparison but an inaccurate one as well. Allow me to elaborate my point.

 

The tweet is most likely referring to the North American launch of the Dreamcast (9^th September 1999) rather than the Japanese one (27^th November 1998) so first off, there’s a 10-month difference between both releases. Now keeping that in mind, the Dreamcast was officially discontinued in March 2001: the console lasted 2 years and 4 months if we count the Japanese release date whereas the American release made it last up to 1 year and 6 months. How many units did the Dreamcast sell during its lifespan? 10.6 million.

 

Now let’s take a look at the Wii U. The Wii U came out on the 18^th November 2012 in North America, with the European and Japanese releases coming out on the 30^th November and 8^th December respectively. So far the console has been in the market for exactly a year and 5 months. So while the amount of time released in the market is closer to the Dreamcast’s when it came out in North America it is very unfair to neglect the Japanese release since it’s after all the market it was first launched: there’s still about 11 months to go until the Wii U reaches the exact lifetime the Dreamcast had.

 

How many units has the Wii U sold so far? According to official numbers, 5.83 million as of 31^st December 2013 (end of Q3 FY 2013-14), but taking a wild guess the console must have perfectly breached past the 6 million units by early January, possibly being even around 6.5 million by the end of their fiscal year (31^st March), although we gotta wait for their next financial report which should be out in a couple of weeks’ time for proper accurate data. Still, that’s without its two big hitters of 2014 (Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros) being released out yet, so there’s still almost a year to go to see how these numbers will improve by then. However, if the Wii U doesn't at least double the amount of their current number of units sold (say, 12 million units) by the end of their next fiscal year (31^st March 2015), then it’ll be something to worry about.

 

As for March's NPD numbers… on the one hand they may not be impressive at all, but on the other hand I am impressed at how it managed to sell slightly more units compared to last year in the same month despite the fact that there weren't any major releases for the console in that month. I expect April and May to be a similar situation but it’ll be interesting to see how it will perform once Mario Kart 8 rolls out. Although keep in mind NPD don't take every store into account when counting sales so I'd rather wait for Nintendo's financial report to get proper accurate sales data.

 

 

 

If I had known it was inaccurate, I wouldn't have shared it. I'm sorry for causing trouble here.

AH, now I see, that clears it up.

[VO.SUPER]

 

 

Coming from Image and Form's Brjann Sigurgeirsson...

This may sound strange, but the Nintendo eShop is like El Dorado in more senses than one. There are nuggets everywhere, the (customer) people who hang out there are laidback, knowledgeable and friendly, and it hasn’t been invaded by greedy, cheapskate (developer) conquistadores who insist on trading glass beads for gold, making shallow games with a minimum of effort and yearning to race us to the bottom.

Sure, we weren’t the first ones on the scene. But other studios we’ve talked to that develop for the eShop feel the same: “Let’s hope the others don’t come here, let them slug it out on mobile or Steam. This is Paradise: most everything here is good, the gamers are REAL gamers who pay for quality, and when you shout out there’s an echo. I’m never leaving this place.” You can venture out, but you know you’ll be back. And on that steep hill in the middle of this city of gold stands the huge Nintendo totem. All ye other gods, never mind entering here; these people shan’t be swayed.

 

One hell of an indie endorsement. 

[8ther]

Iwata Speaks Of The Need To "Redefine" Nintendo's Position In The Entertainment Industry.

 

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata may be under the cosh at the moment thanks to the growing discontent of the company's shareholders, but he has revealed to Japanese site Diamond Online that he feels he is carrying on the will of the late Hiroshi Yamauchi by ensuring that the firm is always focused on providing entertainment — and that doesn't just mean video games.
The interview — kindly translated by Siliconera — sees Iwata speak of his Quality of Life platform, as well as the need to "redefine" Nintendo's output:

Surely, a lot of people around the world must think ‘Nintendo is a company that is just for video games,’ about us, and I believe that there are more and more of our own employees who've begun to think like that. Some employees that are in charge of making things, are often kept positions where they have to think of how they can make the game in front of them more fun, so I don't think it can be helped if others outside of our company think like that.
So, even if the fact that our focus being video games won't be changing, I felt the need to take this occasion to say ‘Nintendo is a company that can do whatever they want’. This subject came to light when Yamauchi passed away, but I felt that our surroundings are greatly changing. We need to redefine what Nintendo must do, from this point on. However, I felt that saying ‘Nintendo will do anything,’ was also the wrong idea for the company.
Yamauchi was one to always say ‘Nintendo is a company for entertainment, and it shouldn't be for anything else,’ and he didn't necessarily think that ‘entertainment = video games'. I've been wondering how to express Yamauchi’s feelings, and I've been thinking about it non-stop, even during the New Year’s holiday break.

That brings us to Iwata's much-discussed "QOL" platform, which is still quite mysterious. However, he insists that his aim is quite simple: to enrich the lives of consumers via the medium of entertainment, and that could mean anything from fitness applications to brain-training programs — areas Nintendo has successfully covered before:

Lately, the words ‘QOL’ (quality of life) have come up. Entertainment is there to improve people’s quality of life. After your basic needs, there’s entertainment. However, when it comes to improving people’s quality of life, I didn't know the difference between us and household appliance makers.
At the start of this year, I finally figured that improving people’s quality of life with fun, with emphasis to the ‘fun’ would be perfect for Nintendo. And that’s when I decided to use this as a focus during the financial results meeting in January and wrote the manuscript for the presentation.

[VO.SUPER]

If anything, I'm fine if Nintendo's brands expanded from just being video games to other mediums again. Back in the 80s and 90s, Mario may have been a video game character, but there was so much else he was at the time. He could be in cartoons, comics, books, film, toys, and other misc. devices. But starting with the N64 era, Nintendo just became more conservative with all their IP, and these days I'd honestly say that the Nintendo of today is nothing like the marketing masters of the 80s and 90s. Now don't get me wrong, I want their primary focus to be games, but they should be able to focus more outside of that too. After all, Disney isn't just an animation company is it?

[Sami]

Nintendo can barely manage to support two hardware platforms as is, and the way Iwata talks about "finally realizing what to focus on" just a few months ago and immediately using that as their focus for the investor meeting reeks of desperation and lack of vision.

I hope for their sake QoL takes off. Until then, I'm skeptical of whatever nonsense Iwata decided to spout next. Talk is cheap.

[PSI Wind]

Barely? Wii U I can understand but just because they among others set their sales expectations too high doesn't mean they didn't handle the 3DS amazingly well until this year and before OoT 3D

[Sami]

Barely? Wii U I can understand but just because they among others set their sales expectations too high doesn't mean they didn't handle the 3DS amazingly well until this year and before OoT 3D

They can't handle two at once. A great year for 3DS leaves barebones support for Wii U, and vice versa. The same is unfortunately true for Sony Computer Entertainment, but then, that fact is one of the many reasons why there probably won't be a Vita successor.

As long as Nintendo hardware is completely dependent on first party support, they won't be able to properly supply both at the same time. Compromises have always been made, and I don't trust them to know how to expand even further.