General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Big Panda]

Question about the Tomodochi controversy: is this just Nintendo of Japan talking, or is this from the US and European branches too?

[Skyward Sword]

I like how nintendo releases there terrible sales figures, then tries to divert attention by announcing a hoenn remake. They need to wake up and realise how much trouble they are really in.

 

Aside from MK8, I can't think of a game that will 'save' the Wii U. :/ Shame, I love my Wii U to bits.

 

Also at PSI Wind's comment, I think this is making a big deal out of nothing really. I'm pretty sure nintendo games aren't the most realistic ones either.

[PSI Wind]

Console/Handheld hybrid would most likely be way too expensive to really take off, honestly. It'd have to be expensive enough to have hardware capable of competing with the PS5 and Xbox2 or whatever they end up being called, plus have the cost of another piece of hardware for the handheld bit thrown on top of it. 

 

I liked the idea a lot before, and still think it is appealing on paper (I'd buy one), but I just don't think it's very practical at all.

So, what then? Nintendo should listen like Sony in terms of what third-parties want in a console. This means a certain amount of RAM, a good CPU, a good video card, and x86 architect (or x64).

[Willsy]

Question about the Tomodochi controversy: is this just Nintendo of Japan talking, or is this from the US and European branches too?

What's surprising is that this is NoA talking. :/

I at least hope they patch it in.

[PSI Wind]

Question about the Tomodochi controversy: is this just Nintendo of Japan talking, or is this from the US and European branches too?

NoJ has said numerous things about the game and Same-sex. What happened was people dressed their Miis in opposite sex clothing and had same sex relationships. Male relationships would result in male pregnancy, but that would've added to the WTF factor of the game. The MAJOR problem with it was that doing this caused data corruption on games that used Miis, Tomodachi, or the Mii Maker and Tomodachi.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I wouldn't really condone calling Nintendo as a whole out for the Tomodochi thing, let alone, Nintendo of America and Europe.

 

It'd be like blaming Capcom of Amercia for all of Capcom of Japan's bullshit.

[PSI Wind]

What's surprising is that this is NoA talking. :/

I at least hope they patch it in.

The only way they can patch it is if they figure out a way to stop the data corruption.

 

And, I don't mean to say anything bad, but remember that Japan's stance on LGBT is different to ours. Their culture on it is different. I'm not trying to defend this. Rather, I'm just stating what I've learned.

[SuperLink]

Unfortunately I don't think they'll patch it in. The game is already old in Japan, and we're getting it late because the localisation was tough and laborious. I doubt they'll be changing the base source code more than is necessary for localisation. It's seriously sucky, but I think they're more likely to release a new edition with that feature in a few years' time than patch it into a 2+ year old game.

 

Plus there's NoJ, the game was developed there and they own the game's source code and like PSI said, Japan has a pretty different view of LGBT to the west and likely didn't even consider it to be a needed feature when making the title with Japanese audiences in mind. I don't think it's something Nintendo's western studios can change, even if they wanted to.

 

The best we can hope for is that the feedback and criticism for lacking the feature translates to NoJ and we get it added in a future release, especially if it becomes popular in the west, NoJ are more likely to take western critique on board. If the game does badly, we simply won't see it localised again and it will continue to be developed with only a Japanese audience in mind. I don't think it's too unlikely that changes will be made in a future entry though seeing as you can practically play a trans character in the new Animal Crossing if you choose to.

 

To people it means a lot to, I recommend sending a feedback email to Nintendo or letting them know on Miiverse when the game comes out, I know I will be doing so. Besides that, all you can do is hope the game is successful enough in the west for NoJ to care about western feedback on it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

This is pretty much Nintendo nowadays, they refuse to cooperate with people outside of the company (http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/09/03/bethesda-nintendo-needs-better-support-for-third-party-devs)l whether it be consumers, other companies giving advice, or third parties.

Okay now that over-generalization would have to be applied to practically everyone who's ever at some point refused to cooperate, to be correct.

[Willsy]

Shouldn't Nintendo be appealing to a worldwide audience though? If they want to operate successfully overseas, they have to be mindful of how things are overseas.

They pretty much called gay rights 'propaganda' with the whole social commentary thing, and that's inexcusable. I understand that it's probably Japan's culture, but when they're selling their products in countries that are pro-gay rights they need to comply.

Okay now that over-generalization would have to be applied to practically everyone who's ever at some point refused to cooperate, to be correct.

I'm not over-generalising anything. Developers have approached Nintendo hoping to work with them hand in hand (when it comes to marketing and stuff), but Nintendo don't want to play ball like Microsoft and Sony do. Both EA and Bethesda have confirmed this, EA because they wanted Nintendo to push Need For Speed Most Wanted U like Microsoft and Sony did.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I'm not over-generalising anything. Developers approach Nintendo hoping to work with them hand in hand, but Nintendo don't want to play ball like Microsoft and Sony do. Both EA and Bethesda have said this, EA because they wanted Nintendo to push Need For Speed Most Wanted U like Microsoft and Sony did.

And I wouldn't condone acting like Nintendo's really the only one who doesn't play ball at times this gen. Granted it seems I might have made a hasty assumption, believing you were insuating that Nintendo does this most and with all, in which case I apologize and would recede my jab.

[SuperLink]

Shouldn't Nintendo be appealing to a worldwide audience though? If they want to operate successfully overseas, they have to be mindful of how things are overseas.

Not when a game is developed almost exclusively for a Japanese audience and only localised because a few western fans have shown a passing interest in it.

 

Look at Animal Crossing's history, the initial games had a lot of references that only Japanese gamers would understand and very few western references because the game's localisation was an afterthought, it originally was not destined for western audiences at all, much like the Tomodachi series. Due to its western success, we've seen an increasing number of western ideals in recent Animal Crossing entries. A game developed for a Japanese audience is going to pertain to Japanese ideals. It's certainly true that Nintendo need to keep in mind more what western gamers want rather than developing so many Japan-exclusive games, but that doesn't change the unfortunate truth of this particular situation, we can only hope that fans can change the outcome of future situations.

 

And yeah their commentary on it was far from ideal, I don't think their spokesperson or PR department is very knowledgeable on the subject.

[Sami]

So, what then? Nintendo should listen like Sony in terms of what third-parties want in a console. This means a certain amount of RAM, a good CPU, a good video card, and x86 architect (or x64).

 

I've been saying this forever, lmao. Yeah. 

 

What Nintendo needs is a leader with confidence and actual planning skills. Convince consumers that they should buy a Nintendo console not because they're a silly special snowflake, but because they offer a better product than Sony and Microsoft.

 

Also I'm with Wil on the Tomodachi thing.

[Willsy]

I'm sorry if I've come off as short tempered about this whole thing with Tomodachi Life, I'm just a bit upset about it. I like playing some of Nintendo's games and it kind of felt like they were stabbing me in me back. I really wouldn't want Nintendo as a company to go anti-LGBT.

[Skyward Sword]

I agree with discoid. Nintendo innovations have been, for the most part, being different for the sake of being different. They need to focus less on being differ net and 'standing out' and just release a damn powerful system with great games and aggressive marketing and it will sell like hotcakes.

[SuperLink]

I'm sorry if I've come off as short tempered about this whole thing with Tomodachi Life, I'm just a bit upset about it. I like playing some of Nintendo's games and it kind of felt like they were stabbing me in me back. I really wouldn't want Nintendo as a company to go anti-LGBT.

I don't think they'll ever be "anti-LGBT", but it unfortunately seems that due to their very Japanese-oriented business they're going to be pretty slow on the uptake :/ if their plan to improve western operations succeeds then we can hopefully expect that to change

 

 

 

I agree with discoid. Nintendo innovations have been, for the most part, being different for the sake of being different. They need to focus less on being differ net and 'standing out' and just release a damn powerful system with great games and aggressive marketing and it will sell like hotcakes.

I've said it before but "because that worked so well for the Gamecube"

 

Being powerful isn't enough, unfortunately, which is what caused Nintendo to go down the "being different" road in the first place. I wouldn't mind seeing a powerful offering from Nintendo, but I seriously question anyone who's confident it would sell on that basis.

[Skyward Sword]

I've said it before but "because that worked so well for the Gamecube"

 

Being powerful isn't enough, unfortunately, which is what caused Nintendo to go down the "being different" road in the first place. I wouldn't mind seeing a powerful offering from Nintendo, but I seriously question anyone who's confident it would sell on that basis.

Ehh, can see your point here, they need good third-party support, and nowadays it's really never been so important. Nintendo needs to focus on making a good system that they support well without stupid droughts and keep a good influx of quality titles that can appeal to the most people. I think they also need to look in to it having good support for playing videos and other multimedia as well.

[Big Panda]

Good thing Nintendo have no power over head canon.

All of my favourite Pokemon I've caught in X version are gay, and there's nothing they can do about it >:3

[Sami]

I've said it before but "because that worked so well for the Gamecube"

 

Being powerful isn't enough, unfortunately, which is what caused Nintendo to go down the "being different" road in the first place. I wouldn't mind seeing a powerful offering from Nintendo, but I seriously question anyone who's confident it would sell on that basis.

 

Their "powerful" consoles (N64 and GCN) had major strings attached to them, though.

 

In a market where exclusives are shrinking in number, Nintendo has enough developers to release extremely high quality games as a draw on top of good third party support. The problem with the N64, though, was that it was much more difficult to work with than the PS1 (both because of Nintendo's policies and the cartridge format), and so major third party games ended up going to the competition. The Gamecube, likewise, had to deal with a controller with less buttons and a way smaller disc format than the PS2's, making it a hassle to release third party ports. 

 

The last time Nintendo released a powerful console with no strings attached in the face of the competition was the SNES, which won its respective "war". It's hard to really use a catch-all "this will/won't work" example because the results have varied greatly thanks to numerous other factors, like the aforementioned media format and hardware parity. 

 

I think the best course of action is to, like Sony did this generation, talk to third parties and see what they want. If you're not going for a Blue Ocean approach, you need third party support. This has been proven. The king of third parties has, apart from the Wii, always been the breadwinner.

[Dobkeratops]

You know, in this Tomodachi thing, independently of any rhetoric or harmful statements that might have come from any of the parties involved, I fully support the decision to not change anything.

 

If I had been working years to get into the gaming industry and then worked even more years to make a game, the last thing I'd want is some collective telling me what I can or can't do because that'd just be perverting the original vision. Make the game you wanted to as you wanted to and let the market decide, then evaluate and consider making changes for future entries, having at least managed to accomplish what you initially worked for.

 

This also goes the other way, ie: if I had been slaving myself on a sausage fest with some implied gay relationships and then, say, some feminist group got their panties in a bunch because there was no female representation or religious groups bitched or something similarly stupid happened, I'd promptly tell them to fuck off. If they want to make a game their own way they are perfectly free to make it themselves, I don't owe them anything.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that forced social commentary limits creative freedom. It has to come naturally. If Tomodachi Life didn't purposely omit same sex relationships with the intention to offend, then it's fine as is. Now for the next entry they can consider including the option from the beginning of development.

 

 

[Celestia]

Also at PSI Wind's comment, I think this is making a big deal out of nothing really. I'm pretty sure nintendo games aren't the most realistic ones either.

...What? I'm not sure what you're saying here and what it has to do with the game in question.

  

If they added in gay romance to the Western release of Tomadachi Life I'd be happy, but it appears that it isn't happening. Patch? Maybe, depends on how vocal people are. I highly doubt it'd be that hard to alter that aspect of the game, though I'm no game designer/programmer, so eh.

 

My theory a while back was that it would raise the rating (because "protect kids from the gay" or whatever) but I'm not too sure. Any examples of games that got a rating bumped for that alone?

 

E: Actually, I sorta agree that it'd be best at this point to focus on future installments (and chances are there will be considering the interest in the game) on this issue. It's still understandable to be disappointed tho'.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Celestia

[Big Panda]

@Dobkeritops: The fact that you yourself just referred to the LGBT-movement as "social commentary" is what makes your argument fall completely apart there.

[Dobkeratops]

@Dobkeritops: The fact that you yourself just referred to the LGBT-movement as "social commentary" is what makes your argument fall completely apart there.

 

I did not. It's a general statement aimed at this perceived need to cater to all collectives.

[Willsy]

It should cater to both sexualities, as we're all supposed to be equal. We're all human at the end of the day, no one should be left out.

[Dobkeratops]

It should cater to both sexualities, as we're all supposed to be equal. We're all human at the end of the day, no one should be left out.

 

I'm perfectly fine with including the option from the very early stages of design as part of a rational process and with the desire to deliver a more immersive experience.