General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Indigo Rush]

It would be a crime if I didn't share this
 

 
Don't worry Luigi, there's always next decade.

[azoo]

On the brighter side of things, Iwata can potentially turn things around and save his (and thus also Nintendo's) face, while corporate takeover could just as well be Nintendo pressing the self destruction button.

 

So I'd take Iwata over the latter any day of the year or the next year, considering that while he's let this company get to such a loss, his leadership emphasizes the heart of Nintendo and I don't wanna see that go away any time soon.

[VO.SUPER]

Nintendo got the mysterious tech from... foreigners???

 

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=227919

 

Who could they be working with? If this is true, this is certainly a change of pace.

[Patticus]

Of course, 'tech' could be pretty much anything. It'll be interesting to see what, though.

 

@gibbogame has spoken with Nintendo who have confirmed they have spent over $150 million on a tech company that is not game related, not Japanese and not related to Tomota Tech (the company they now have to pay a certain percentage of 3DS sales to due to a patent issue).

 

Read into that what you will, but it sounds to me like Nintendo has found a tech firm that it can get along with, and perhaps one with the talent and vision to assist them in breaking into new markets.

[Sami]

Not game related, not Japanese, and not Tomota all point towards QoL imo.

[VO.SUPER]

Not game related, not Japanese, and not Tomota all point towards QoL imo.

 

It most likely is, but, what QoL is, is the curious part about the whole thing.

 

... Why am I getting Deja Vu from this?

[Salamander]

Maybe it'll be like... Wii Fit without the Wii?  A completely independent casual fitness and/or brain training program which you don't actually have to own a games console for?

[Candescence]

While Euclideon did cross my mind as to applying to those criteria (the tech it makes is general-purpose, not strictly gaming, and its an Australian company), I'm not so sure Nintendo would actually want to acquire it - on one hand, Unlimited Detail would be a fantastic way to effectively gain a coup over the competition via better graphics on inferior hardware, and Nintendo could potentially gain a ton of long-term profit if it were to license the tech to everyone else, including non-gaming variants of the tech (such as film). On the other hand, they might consider leaving the company independent as being better for the industry overall.

 

But QoL is much more likely in any case, I agree. I'm expecting Euclideon to partner up with Valve rather than Nintendo, but stranger things have happened.

[Gabz Girl]

Would everyone just give Iwata another chance? He's only been CEO for about 10 years and all sorts has gone down in those 10 years, good things and bad things. Replacing him now, as SuperLink said, would be a BAD idea and could ruin Nintendo even more. Don't even get me started on switching over to new hardware straight after the Wii U's initial failure. We don't want another SEGA situation this gen!

[Sami]

Would everyone just give Iwata another chance? He's only been CEO for about 10 years and all sorts has gone down in those 10 years, good things and bad things. Replacing him now, as SuperLink said, would be a BAD idea and could ruin Nintendo even more. Don't even get me started on switching over to new hardware straight after the Wii U's initial failure. We don't want another SEGA situation this gen!

I don't want another Wii U situation next gen, so no, I want him gone. His performance for the past four years has been exceptionally poor.

[Willsy]

Okay, so about Nintendo making new hardware for emerging markets...

I don't get how that's going to do them any good. It's more consoles to worry about, and more consoles to eat into Nintendo's profits. I could be wrong, but they already have a console that's under the weather, if I were them I wouldn't even consider another console.

[Sami]

Okay, so about Nintendo making new hardware for emerging markets...

I don't get how that's going to do them any good. It's more consoles to worry about, and more consoles to eat into Nintendo's profits. I could be wrong, but they already have a console that's under the weather, if I were them I wouldn't even consider another console.

Have we seen these machines, though? Maybe they're just ultra cheap SNES emulator boxes or something.

[Autosaver]

Nintendo does a meme

"Awful! Bad move!"

Sony does meme at E3

"Savior of internet!"

Double standards anyone?

Also, it's not even a general meme. It's a Nintendo focused joke. That stuff happened on Miiverse. I honestly thought it was hilarious. I haven't seen anyone nitpick at it until today.

Edit: On the topic of Iwata.

He helped create two of the most successful platforms of all time. He made Nintendo a bazillion of dollars. He took a risk with the Wii U, and it backfired.

Let's also not forget that he completely turned around the 3DS from IGN's "The Vita will blow the 3DS out of the water" to "3DS is top selling platform."

If he doesn't manage to help turn around the Wii U, then it is time to get worried. Nintendo can't magically produce games and fix all their problems in a day.

[Willsy]

Have we seen these machines, though? Maybe they're just ultra cheap SNES emulator boxes or something.

Could even just be the Wii. But I mean if it's entirely new hardware that they need to sink large amounts into.

[Sami]

Nintendo does a meme

"Awful! Bad move!"

Sony does meme at E3

"Savior of internet!"

Double standards anyone?

Also, it's not even a general meme. It's a Nintendo focused joke. That stuff happened on Miiverse. I honestly thought it was hilarious. I haven't seen anyone nitpick at it until today.

???

What brings this up? I myself have expressed distaste for the extremely tired and forced "my body is ready" jokes recently, but I've never seen anyone take issue with the Miiverse references and/or commissioning Mega64 for advertising only to immediately turn around and praise Sony.

I don't think this is as much a double standard as it is different people expressing different opinions.

Edit: On the topic of Iwata.

He helped create two of the most successful platforms of all time. He made Nintendo a bazillion of dollars. He took a risk with the Wii U, and it backfired.

Let's also not forget that he completely turned around the 3DS from IGN's "The Vita will blow the 3DS out of the water" to "3DS is top selling platform."

If he doesn't manage to help turn around the Wii U, then it is time to get worried. Nintendo can't magically produce games and fix all their problems in a day.

I bring up this comparison all the time, but it's as true as ever - Ken Kutaragi invented the Playstation. He was at one point in the running for CEO of the entire corporation, and without him, one of Sony's most profitable and important brands would not exist.

He fucked up badly, and got the boot. Immediately afterwards the PS3 saw a huge change in its branding that helped immensely, and the PS4 is now poised to win this generation easily. I respect Ken for his amazing achievements before stepping down, but I'm happy he's gone and wouldn't want him back.

I also don't understand why Iwata gets praised for "turning around the 3DS", when it's his fault it needed to be turned around in the first place. He launched a piece of hardware with a confusing name at too high of a cost and with very little quality software available in the launch window.

When faced with criticism about this, he said that Nintendo had learned from their mistakes and would not repeat them in the future. He then went on to repeat each and every single one of them shortly thereafter.

Look at Nintendo right now. Please. Think about what direction they're going in, what market they're trying to target, and how they're going to go about doing so. As of now, this is unclear. QoL has been confirmed by Iwata himself to be an idea concocted immediately before the investor meeting, presumably to give him something to say other than "please understand". It reeks of desperation, alongside so many other moves they've made as of late.

The future of Nintendo is unclear because there's no real unifying vision for their future at this time. Iwata's Nintendo is reactionary, stubborn, and slow to act. He may be a good game designer and even a good person, but as of 2014 he is not a good leader, and I firmly believe Nintendo would be better off without him. They need someone with a real vision for the company's future, and who isn't deathly afraid of competing with their competitors.

[Willsy]

I kind of feel sorry for Iwata. He's a good hearted man, just not a terribly great businessman. I still respect him though.

[VO.SUPER]

Damnit all Discoid. I'm picking at your small details again, but why do you keeping saying they're cowards? Nintendo stopped competing with competitors since the N64 came and they went onto other planets with their hardware. It's not like Iwata started this trend of wackier and wackier hardware and not having remotely similar strategies to their competitiors. Why does that point to cowardice at all? Yes, I'm petty, but terminology bugs me and I have the right to ask the logic behind it.

[Jolt_TH]

I dunno, id say that the Wii was when they stopped directly competing. The Gamecube was technically superior to the PS2 for example, but the PS2 was just more popular (a DVD player helped massively, something the GC didn't include), lots of bad choices lead to the GC's downfall, not its specs.

[Sami]

Damnit all Discoid. I'm picking at your small details again, but why do you keeping saying they're cowards? Nintendo stopped competing with competitors since the N64 came and they went onto other planets with their hardware. It's not like Iwata started this trend of wackier and wackier hardware and not having remotely similar strategies to their competitiors. Why does that point to cowardice at all? Yes, I'm petty, but terminology bugs me and I have the right to ask the logic behind it.

You don't believe the GameCube was competing with the PS2 and Xbox? What sense is there in this claim? Nintendo themselves stated in interviews that they designed the GameCube to be more powerful than the PS2 - this correlation is exactly what market competition is. Multiple companies offering differing products in an attempt to capture an audience by catering to a specific need. In this case, video games.

Iwata seems to be under the impression that if the hardware and software Nintendo develops is silly and special, they no longer have to follow market trends and standards because they are no longer in direct competition. It's a moronic notion because regardless of whatever they call the Wii or Wii U, they are above all else video game consoles. They compete directly for shelf space, they compete for the same audiences, they appear at the same events, they're referred to in tandem, are directly compared to each other constantly, and they fulfill the same needs in the home. The Kinect and Move are extremely straightforward examples of direct competition, whether Iwata wants to admit this or not. Early on in Gen 7 they certainly focused on targeting a different audience from Sony and Microsoft, but this does not change the fact that anyone looking to play video games is faced with the choice of three competing consoles.

In the case of the Wii U, Nintendo has labelled it as an attempt to once again capture the core audience. The same audience that Microsoft and Sony are competing for.

This insistence on not actually competing with competitors is completely asinine because no matter how many times he says it, it won't be any less false. As it is, it comes off as nothing more than an excuse to brush off the fact that they're being immensely outperformed and laughed out of relevancy in the only market they've competed in for the past three decades.

[VO.SUPER]

Well yeah, I agree that it's asinine. But again, I'm just arguing petty details. That sounds more stubborn than cowardly to me.

[SuperLink]

Don't forget that it wasn't long since they were kicking everyone else's asses though?

 

I don't know how you can call Nintendo cowards when they're specifically purposefully intentionally avoiding a traditional console. They're making risks for the sake of taking risks to see what kind of people like. Fair enough if you don't like that they're doing that, but it's anything but cowardly, because literally no one in the industry would dare do something like that so consistently for so long??

 

Yeah they're competing, but they're competing on their own terms in unique ways and sometimes it pays off massively. I don't understand how there is anything about that that's "safe". If anything's safe (and I'm not saying safe is a bad thing) it's the PS4 which is the logical next step up from a 7th gen system (better visuals, more user-generated content, better internet features, etc).

 

I don't see how compared to Nintendo, that's the opposite of cowardly?? Nintendo's the one losing most money on SKU manufacturing this gen.

 

Also "capturing the core" is nothing more than a buzzterm for the media to regurgitate, the "core" does not exist, everything that is successful is "casual". They still took a risk. It launched less than two years ago and it's been a huge problem, but Iwata was success-after-success before that. One AWOL risk is not the end of the world, because it's not going to burn holes in their pockets forever.

[Sami]

Don't forget that it wasn't long since they were kicking everyone else's asses though?

I don't know how you can call Nintendo cowards when they're specifically purposefully intentionally avoiding a traditional console. They're making risks for the sake of taking risks to see what kind of people like. Fair enough if you don't like that they're doing that, but it's anything but cowardly, because literally no one in the industry would dare do something like that so consistently for so long??

Yeah they're competing, but they're competing on their own terms in unique ways and sometimes it pays off massively. I don't understand how there is anything about that that's "safe". If anything's safe (and I'm not saying safe is a bad thing) it's the PS4 which is the logical next step up from a 7th gen system (better visuals, more user-generated content, better internet features, etc).

I don't see how compared to Nintendo, that's the opposite of cowardly?? Nintendo's the one losing most money on SKU manufacturing this gen.

Also "capturing the core" is nothing more than a buzzterm for the media to regurgitate, the "core" does not exist, everything that is successful is "casual". They still took a risk. It launched less than two years ago and it's been a huge problem, but Iwata was success-after-success before that. One AWOL risk is not the end of the world, because it's not going to burn holes in their pockets forever.

This insistence on doing something different every time is not something I feel is worth commending purely on the basis that it's risky. In my eyes, it appears to be nothing more than a subtle admittance that they can no longer truly compete with Sony and Microsoft for the audience they once had a firm grip over. It's very clear that meager attempts have been made at competition very early on before and during the Wii U's launch - they attempted to create a compelling online experience like PSN and Xbox Live, they promised consumers unprecedented and stable third party partnerships, and they designed the controller to be more traditional than it's predecessor.

When none of this worked out for them, what did they say? Did they aggressively target the audience Sony and Microsoft currently own by really pushing the limit and showing off that the Wii U is a better system in its own right? Whether or not it pays off, this, to me, creates an air of confidence in the company for their products. The N64 may have lost to the PS1 in sales, but they fought damn hard and that's something I respect. They competed toe to toe on almost every aspect, with their unfortunately archaic publishing policies behind the scenes being what did them in.

I don't think there's much use in debating this particular topic as the whole thing revolves around perception, and as such is completely subjective. Nintendo's actions to you and many members here may reflect a creative mindset and a unique perspective on game development, and I respect that, but I unfortunately don't see it the same way. Iwata's constant side-stepping of every meaningful attempt at competition reflects, to me, a lack of confidence in their products. I want Nintendo to tell me, and prove to me, that the Wii U is a better console than the PS4. I want them to look at their opponents' big flagship exclusives and raise some games that they truly believe to be of higher quality, and market them aggressively.

Look at the N64. Consider the air of confidence Nintendo must have had at the time, releasing timeless classic after timeless classic, revolutionizing the industry and providing an enormous variety of games of all kinds of different styles. This is something they don't do anymore. Instead, they've completely boxed themselves into the label of "the family friendly one", and very rarely do anything to branch out of that (ZombiU is a good attempt though, and I wish there was more of that).

I'm trailing off though. I'm writing this on my phone and keep having to stop and do other things, so apologies if this post lacks coherence a bit.

Just a final thing I want to talk about though - stop selling yourself so short. Regardless of what label we use, the "core" absolutely does exist. It's us. The people that go on Internet forums and passionately write long winded essays about the things they care about. The people who made Nintendo successful in the first place by buying their products for years. The people who create and consume video game related content on a regular basis, be it videos, illustrations, text, and of course games themselves. We matter, and to say that everything that is successful is casual reflects, in my opinion, a truly sad and cynical view of the industry. The fact that the PS4 is ahead of the Xbox One worldwide, to me, is notable because it's created a scenario where a company has gained enormous success by marketing their console as nothing more or less than a game console for gamers. That only what is casual is successful is not a statement I agree with in light of this success.

Anyway, I've droned on for far too long at this point. I was inquired about my perspective and I wanted to make my point of view clear. I'll step off of my soapbox now.

[azoo]

I don't know about you, but I've started to see from a lot of Nintendo's decisions in the past two or three weeks that they're trying to pick up the pace a lot more lately.

 

NFC Reader thing is something that may be coming, QoL is around the corner, they're making advances with smartphone and Youtube/Google integration, making all sorts of advancements for hyping MK8, and saying that their Digital Event will showcase a lot of games people will care about (something I don't think Nintendo's explicitly said before, just sort of vague notions of games at all).

 

There's also this really important statement made by Iwata about how "we will not quit Wii U until the userbase feels satisfied with their purchase". That may be paraphrased, but it also speaks volumes no matter what way you slice it. Nintendo's not going to give up on the Wii U, but they're also gonna cater to the 'core' audience instead of beating around the bush like they've done for a good year or two. That's what I've been wanting to hear.

 

Sure, we could wait until we get there at their E3 digital event before we start calling claims that Nintendo's saved themselves, and rightfully so. But things are looking pretty up right now for a change.

 

Also, I think Nintendo's caring about competition more than you think, just not of the direct kind. Nintendo's not saying they're better than PS4, and they never will. They want to deliver an experience that features the same aspects but remains different enough to have it's own appeal. What it really looks like they want to say is this:

 

"No matter if you're for PS4 or Xbone, you're still gonna want our console anyways."

 

That's the mentality I think they've adopted at this point, and I can't blame them. If you're not gonna be in the competition, at least put yourself above them rather than below. Not saying that they're on some level of un-criticizable superiority (they're not) but that they don't need direct competition to prove themselves, even if they should learn a thing or three from them. Last gen proved that more than anything could've.

[VO.SUPER]

I can respect that viewpoint, Discoid. Even if these debates don't get anywhere it's nice to get a better point of view from the other side. I may not agree with you, but I think that is a very respectable point to have under the current circumstances.

 

I believe that while what Nintendo is doing is stupid at times, I will never believe them to be cowardly. They have never really been one to share space with anyone except themselves and I commend them for their stubborness to be as unique as possible, even if it doesn't always work out.

 

But that's just another viewpoint. Not like we're gonna make much other progress at this point. The least we can hope for at this point, is that when the Wii U goes down it will at least go down with a memorable selection of games we can enjoy looking back on like the Gamecube.

[SuperLink]

in lighter more progressive news
 
http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/c4FWbi-Uave2T9R1h7SFzX0aoa-d4pgx

 

We apologize for disappointing many people by failing to include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to change this game’s design, and such a significant development change can’t be accomplished with a post-ship patch. At Nintendo, dedication has always meant going beyond the games to promote a sense of community, and to share a spirit of fun and joy. We are committed to advancing our longtime company values of fun and entertainment for everyone. We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players.