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TheDanimator

Sonic 4 episode 1 is PART OF Sonic 4 and My thoughts on Ep1

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Yeah I know, Its obvious that people are referring to episode 1, but it still bothers me... I mean what if someone who was new to the fanbase avoided Sonic 4 completely because someone said it sucked when the other episodes turned out to be AMAZING.

I guess thats not very likely, and your right... now that i think about it its not THAT big a deal if they say, Sonic 4 sucks, when its obvious they are talking about ep1, i think its more just my OCD speeking.

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One thing that the Original Poster got wrong and everyone forgot to mention...

Sonic 4 episode 1 is NOT a prologue!!!!!

It's not a re-cap of what has happened so far!!

And yes, Sonic 4, as a whole game will and does suck! The designers have no clue as to what makes a sonic game!

Episode 1 is an indication of what they are capable of.

And also, they either have to change the physics or stat fresh, both of which will make the game 'as a WHOLE' suck the monkey balls.

Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit! The next one will be shit and until DIMPS are gone it wont recover.

Problems that are obvious:

bland level design that's been copied and has no interaction or sense of atmosphere

Seperate boss levels

No story (they should have had interactive cut scenes that link to boss battles and other character interactions. STuff needs to be happening during the level, not in between. I wanna feel like im in an adventure, not bloody peak hour traffic, stop go stop go concept)

PHYSICS!

DUMB MUSIC and even DUMBER graphics!! This game is on fucking 360, no excuse to give us gameboy advance graphics.

Why cant they make a sonic game that has interactive segments and story parts and why cant a level start off with sunshine and become a storm by the end of it. And why cant the sunshine shine through the trees? Why doesnt the grass move? why is it cell shaded? And why cant the level go for more than 2 minutes? You want a good 2d sonic game, make it freakin epic or go home, rayman origins and donkey kong country has x1000 more vision that this trash.

On a good note, Generations for the 360/ps3 is looking great (minus the linea 3d gameplay thats plagued us for the past 3 years).

Edited by Riverstone

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Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit!

Let's see, I've played about 50 different Sonic Games... Yeah, I still thing Sonic 4 is a good game.

Seperate boss levels

Yes, Sonic 1, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, ShadowTH, 2006, Secret Rings, Unleashed, Colours, Rush, Rush Adventure, Advance 2 and Advance 3 were indeed all terrible pieces of shit. Noone likes any of those games. Nuh-uh. Because seperate boss levels is such a heresy towards game design.

DUMB MUSIC and even DUMBER graphics!! This game is on fucking 360, no excuse to give us gameboy advance graphics.

Riiiiight. High-quality 3D Models, HD resolution renders and foreground/background interaction is GBA graphics... Do yourself a favour and find me a single GBA game pulling of Sonic 4's visuals. Also, the game is on the Wii, iPhone, W7Phone and PS3 as well.

why is it cell shaded?

Why not? It's a style-choice. Are you gonna say Wind Waker belong on the Super Nintendo or something now?

Generations for the 360/ps3 is looking great (minus the linea 3d gameplay thats plagued us for the past 3 years).

Right, because everyone hated Unleashed and Colours and the new City Escape is soooooooo liniar.

Wow, you must seriously be one of the worst arguers I've seen for why Sonic 4 is bad, most are respectable and can actually put forward reasonable arguments for debates.

Edited by Tobbii

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One thing that the Original Poster got wrong and everyone forgot to mention...

Sonic 4 episode 1 is NOT a prologue!!!!!

It's not a re-cap of what has happened so far!!

And yes, Sonic 4, as a whole game will and does suck! The designers have no clue as to what makes a sonic game!

Episode 1 is an indication of what they are capable of.

And also, they either have to change the physics or stat fresh, both of which will make the game 'as a WHOLE' suck the monkey balls.

Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit! The next one will be shit and until DIMPS are gone it wont recover.

Problems that are obvious:

bland level design that's been copied and has no interaction or sense of atmosphere

Seperate boss levels

No story (they should have had interactive cut scenes that link to boss battles and other character interactions. STuff needs to be happening during the level, not in between. I wanna feel like im in an adventure, not bloody peak hour traffic, stop go stop go concept)

PHYSICS!

DUMB MUSIC and even DUMBER graphics!! This game is on fucking 360, no excuse to give us gameboy advance graphics.

Why cant they make a sonic game that has interactive segments and story parts and why cant a level start off with sunshine and become a storm by the end of it. And why cant the sunshine shine through the trees? Why doesnt the grass move? why is it cell shaded? And why cant the level go for more than 2 minutes? You want a good 2d sonic game, make it freakin epic or go home, rayman origins and donkey kong country has x1000 more vision that this trash.

On a good note, Generations for the 360/ps3 is looking great (minus the linea 3d gameplay thats plagued us for the past 3 years).

Definition of PROLOGUE

1

: the preface or introduction to a literary work

2

a : a speech often in verse addressed to the audience by an actor at the beginning of a play

b : the actor speaking such a prologue

3

: an introductory or preceding event or development

^ this one.

"The game was developed primarily by Dimps, with some members of Sonic Team. The project leader is the current head of Sonic Team, Takashi Iizuka, who has worked on various Sonic games – notably as senior level designer for Sonic 3 & Knuckles,"

Yes, all of the designers including Iizuka has no clue what he is doing, considering he was the senior level designer for Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

Changing the physics, the biggest complaint in the game will make the game suck? Wth are you talking about dude?

I personally love the music and the graphics.

Jun Senoue composed the soundtrack, he is responsible for some of the best music in the franchise. I urge you to give it another listen.

Tobbii sums up the rest of my thoughts.

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Yeeeaaah, prologue and recap are not the same thing...prologues actually set up the current story, but don't necessarily recap things we've already seen.

FOR EXAMPLE: I just saw the new X-Men First Class movie, so I'll use that series to make my point:

X-Men - First scene of the movie shows Magneto as a kid in a concentration camp, and his powers manifest. It sets up the movie by showing a mutant display their power, and how this particular character went through terrible trauma in his life.

This is not a recap, because we haven't seen any of this before. But it is a prologue

X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Similarly, the first scene shows wolverine as a kid before his powers manifested. His dad gets murdered, and his rage erupts, and claws pop out of his hands. Character development has a backbone to grow from.

A Sonic example:

Sonic Adventure - Game opens with Sonic in Station Square, eventually fighting an unknown monster. The scene shows us Eggman is secretly behind it. This scene sets up the whole game.

A recap would be like, in loads of TV shows, it'll start with, "Previously, on LOST...." and we see what happened in the last few episodes.

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RANDOM CONSPIRACY OF THE DAY (because there was nowhere else to post it):

While the Unleashed team is busy with GenerationsHD and Dimps is busy making more crap Generations3DS, Colors/storybook team is left with nothing to do. Balough says S4: Episode 2 is already in production and has been since February. The conspiracy? That the Colors team could be taking Generations' classic engine while we're not looking and make S4:E2 for XBLA/PSN/WiiUWare/3DS/Vita/Steam/whatever. They have competent knowledge on how to make a good Sonic game, and they are really good at making stuff close to the source material like how well they emulated SUHD's gameplay in Colors Wii.

This sounds a bit too optimistic though. Yeah, way too optimistic.

If it happens though, I'm calling this too. Jus' sayin'.

On-topic... kind of:

Yeah, Sonic 4 : Episode 1 was balls and I haven't played it since a month or two after it was released. Just hope it's vastly improved since then. That's about as much as I can say about it for now, besides stating my ultra-conspiracy that I will stand by to the grave and/or when proven wrong.

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And then they turned around and made Colors? =P I know I put down SC some but it's better than most 3D Sonics.

I really can't agree there, better the some, absolutely, better than most? Naaah.

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RANDOM CONSPIRACY OF THE DAY (because there was nowhere else to post it):

While the Unleashed team is busy with GenerationsHD and Dimps is busy making more crap Generations3DS, Colors/storybook team is left with nothing to do. Balough says S4: Episode 2 is already in production and has been since February. The conspiracy? That the Colors team could be taking Generations' classic engine while we're not looking and make S4:E2 for XBLA/PSN/WiiUWare/3DS/Vita/Steam/whatever. They have competent knowledge on how to make a good Sonic game, and they are really good at making stuff close to the source material like how well they emulated SUHD's gameplay in Colors Wii.

The Generations team sucked up the Colors Team. So there aren't no real 'teams' anymore, everyone works dynamically on the game they are needed on at any time. They even even work togheter with some outside of Sonic Team with different people from SEGA.

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Im reallY not sure if I should be making a topic for this or not but im getting REALLY SICK of people saying...

"I didnt like Sonic 4"

By saying that you are saying...

I didnt like a game that I only played about 1/3rd of at most and I only played the prologue and decided I didnt like it.

Its just frusterating how many people keep saying "I didnt like Sonic 4."

I just think thats unfair to say considering they have barely played it, the main stuff hasnt even happened yet.

When people are saying that Sonic 4 sucks, they're saying that Episode I sucks because that's the only part of Sonic 4 that's released. And please, tell me, why does this bother you so much?

because ep1 does objectively suck

Objectively? The only thing that "objectively" sucks about it is the physics, and even then it's subjective how much it bothers the player, or if it even bothers the player at all. Just saying...

Sonic 4: Complete will then be 3600 Microsoft Points, which equal to about 36 Dollars, right?

Actually 1200 MS points is 15 dollars, meaning that the whole thing will cost about 45 smackaroons unless they lower the price for later episodes.

Anyway, as for my thoughts on Sonic 4, I basically agree with TheDanimator's assessment. Granted, though, the rehashed levels would probably have bothered me if it weren't for the fact that most levels tend to revolve around a different gimmick, which I thought was cool. However, I don't believe it should have been called Sonic 4. I see Episode I as a marrying of old and new 2-D design conventions, and you don't tell someone they're getting a completely classic-styled game when they're not. In fact, wasn't it originally called something else?

One thing that the Original Poster got wrong and everyone forgot to mention...

Sonic 4 episode 1 is NOT a prologue!!!!!

It's not a re-cap of what has happened so far!!

And yes, Sonic 4, as a whole game will and does suck! The designers have no clue as to what makes a sonic game!

Episode 1 is an indication of what they are capable of.

And also, they either have to change the physics or stat fresh, both of which will make the game 'as a WHOLE' suck the monkey balls.

Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit! The next one will be shit and until DIMPS are gone it wont recover.

Problems that are obvious:

bland level design that's been copied and has no interaction or sense of atmosphere

Seperate boss levels

No story (they should have had interactive cut scenes that link to boss battles and other character interactions. STuff needs to be happening during the level, not in between. I wanna feel like im in an adventure, not bloody peak hour traffic, stop go stop go concept)

PHYSICS!

DUMB MUSIC and even DUMBER graphics!! This game is on fucking 360, no excuse to give us gameboy advance graphics.

Why cant they make a sonic game that has interactive segments and story parts and why cant a level start off with sunshine and become a storm by the end of it. And why cant the sunshine shine through the trees? Why doesnt the grass move? why is it cell shaded? And why cant the level go for more than 2 minutes? You want a good 2d sonic game, make it freakin epic or go home, rayman origins and donkey kong country has x1000 more vision that this trash.

On a good note, Generations for the 360/ps3 is looking great (minus the linea 3d gameplay thats plagued us for the past 3 years).

Hello, troll!

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Actually 1200 MS points is 15 dollars, meaning that the whole thing will cost about 45 smackaroons unless they lower the price for later episodes.

Ah, okay. But then my point still stands. :P

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One thing that the Original Poster got wrong and everyone forgot to mention...

Sonic 4 episode 1 is NOT a prologue!!!!!

It's not a re-cap of what has happened so far!!

And yes, Sonic 4, as a whole game will and does suck! The designers have no clue as to what makes a sonic game!

Episode 1 is an indication of what they are capable of.

And also, they either have to change the physics or stat fresh, both of which will make the game 'as a WHOLE' suck the monkey balls.

Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit! The next one will be shit and until DIMPS are gone it wont recover.

Problems that are obvious:

bland level design that's been copied and has no interaction or sense of atmosphere

Seperate boss levels

No story (they should have had interactive cut scenes that link to boss battles and other character interactions. STuff needs to be happening during the level, not in between. I wanna feel like im in an adventure, not bloody peak hour traffic, stop go stop go concept)

PHYSICS!

DUMB MUSIC and even DUMBER graphics!! This game is on fucking 360, no excuse to give us gameboy advance graphics.

Why cant they make a sonic game that has interactive segments and story parts and why cant a level start off with sunshine and become a storm by the end of it. And why cant the sunshine shine through the trees? Why doesnt the grass move? why is it cell shaded? And why cant the level go for more than 2 minutes? You want a good 2d sonic game, make it freakin epic or go home, rayman origins and donkey kong country has x1000 more vision that this trash.

On a good note, Generations for the 360/ps3 is looking great (minus the linea 3d gameplay thats plagued us for the past 3 years).

Do us a fucking favor and don't talk about things you don't fucking know, thank you. : )

Edited by Schismatist

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The Generations team sucked up the Colors Team. So there aren't no real 'teams' anymore, everyone works dynamically on the game they are needed on at any time. They even even work togheter with some outside of Sonic Team with different people from SEGA.

But I thought that the Unleashed team had been working on Generations since 2009, while the Colors team made right after SatBK.. erm, Colors. Unless they overworked themselves to death.

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But I thought that the Unleashed team had been working on Generations since 2009, while the Colors team made right after SatBK.. erm, Colors. Unless they overworked themselves to death.

Well, they did. Once Colors was finished, they moved on to the Generations Team.

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Stop with the hostile responses to Riverstone's post, for god's sake. Just because you can reply and argue with him does not give you an excuse to act like total jackasses.

I will respect what you said, and I have from the beginning as I never said anything hostile towards him, people were a bit harsh but did you read his post? He didnt have much clue about what he was talking about...

He also said this...

"Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit!"

I kind of feel like he was asking for hostility with that remark.

Im not trying to argue with you here and im not one for hostility but I feel like the things people did say that could be taken as "hostile" were the truth, although some of them could of gone without the cursing.

Im really not asking for trouble from a staff member, i just want to make sure you got the full picture.

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Of course I read his post. Yours in particular wasn't what I was referring to, it's posts like Schismatist's and T-Man's (sorry but just calling someone a troll does not constitute a reasonable reply) I cannot tolerate, because no thought is put into them.

You can debunk his claims however you please, just don't make rude-one liners and nothing else, because that's really childish.

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You can debunk his claims however you please, just don't make rude-one liners and nothing else, because that's really childish.

Edited by T-Man

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@ Jean

Okay i see what your saying, people can always be nicer.

The only reason I questioned if you read what he said is because it seemed like you were defending him and he did nothing wrong, which i personally feel was not the case.

I guess i kind of just feel you should of told BOTH him and the hostile comment posters to watch their mouths.

I feel like your post will lead Riverstone to think its acceptable to post before he does research and to post things that are rude to others such as him saying...

"Obviously if you think sonic 4 episode one is good, you're just deprived of better things to do because this game is shit!"

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Objectively? The only thing that "objectively" sucks about it is the physics, and even then it's subjective how much it bothers the player, or if it even bothers the player at all. Just saying...
If you don't have a problem with the game arbitarily removing all of your midair momentum right in the middle of a precarious jump and sending you straight into a death pit, there is something seriously wrong with you. There is no subjectivity about it. That is something a platforming game should not do, especially one in a series where it's perfectly normal to expect momentum to carry you the rest of the way. It's much worse when you look at it in context, where they delayed the game over the explicit reasoning that they'd fix this shit and not much, if anything, actually got fixed.

This isn't even taking into account everything else that's wrong with the game, including:

- Criminally short game length, even for an episodic game, which can't in any way be justified for the price tag it came with.

- Annoying segregation of speed and platforming by way of long segments of Rush-esque "hold right" broken up by platforming sequences that only really break the flow rather than add to it. The majority of the games it's fucking based off of had enough sense to balance both at once in relatively equal measures with only a few exceptions, even if it required a skilled player to do so in some sections.

- Almost none of the content in this game is actually original. I can't think of a single thing about this game that I didn't find in other Sonic games, done much better to boot. Not even talking explicitly about the level aesthetics here either.

- Hey guys, let's throw in a level gimmick around limited sight radius! There's no way this could turn out to be completely counterintuitive to the game's main gimmick at all! No sir!

- Let's not even get started about the repetitive, bland synth crap that goes on in all the music in this game. Ugh.

Whether or not it bothers certain people is completely irrelevant. If a game has problems, a game has fucking problems. The only thing that mentality changes is people's tolerance to game flaws. Nothing else.

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If you don't have a problem with the game arbitarily removing all of your midair momentum right in the middle of a precarious jump and sending you straight into a death pit, there is something seriously wrong with you.

Yes, it is an objectively bad thing about the game, and it does bother me although I still have fun with the game. Not to say I can't see why it does ruin the game for some people, of course. However, I've also known of people who weren't bothered by the lack of momentum and most (emphasis on "most", Hillary Goldstein) of them seem like reasonably intelligent, level-headed people. And, as I said to Riverstone, saying stuff like "something is seriously wrong with you if you disagree with me" just makes you come off as a douche.

- Criminally short game length, even for an episodic game, which can't in any way be justified for the price tag it came with.

Personally, I got a lot of replay value just from repeat playthroughs. I, myself, don't think that it matters if a game is short as long as I find that it has the replay value to back it up, and Sonic 4 succeeded in that area in my opinion. Not to mention that you could really say the same thing about the amount of content Colors has (about 3-8 hours of gameplay for a single playthrough) when compared to its price (a full $50) even if it was a better game. This is subjective.

- Annoying segregation of speed and platforming by way of long segments of Rush-esque "hold right" broken up by platforming sequences that only really break the flow rather than add to it. The majority of the games it's fucking based off of had enough sense to balance both at once in relatively equal measures with only a few exceptions, even if it required a skilled player to do so in some sections.

I rather liked that it had faster, more Rush-like sections alongside platforming. As I mentioned before, I see Sonic 4 as a marrying of old and new design conventions. (I will agree, however, that it shouldn't have been marketed as a sequel to the classics for this reason.)

- Almost none of the content in this game is actually original. I can't think of a single thing about this game that I didn't find in other Sonic games, done much better to boot. Not even talking explicitly about the level aesthetics here either.

I suppose this is true to some extent. However, the fact that many levels revolved around different gimmicks (some of them new ones, I believe, like the cards in Casino Street Act 2, the torch in Lost Labyrinth Act 2, etc.) helped the game stay fresh for me and I never found myself feeling like it was a straight-up rehash. Still a subjective point.

- Hey guys, let's throw in a level gimmick around limited sight radius! There's no way this could turn out to be completely counterintuitive to the game's main gimmick at all! No sir!

Assuming you're talking about the cannons in Casino Street Act 3, throughout much of the stage arrows actually pointed to where you needed to shoot Sonic, and even when they stopped, there was usually a trail of rings pointing you in the right direction. Also, I personally enjoyed using them. Subjective.

- Let's not even get started about the repetitive, bland synth crap that goes on in all the music in this game. Ugh.

How on Earth is the soundtrack objectively bad? That's quite possibly the most subjective thing about the game.

You found Sonic 4: Episode I to be crappy and believe that those who would say otherwise are wrong based on what you believe to be objective facts. I found Sonic 4: Episode I to be 1500 Wii Points well spent and I consider the opinions of those who disagree with me just as valid as my own as long as they can explain why they disagree. I believe you do so well, but you present your opinions as objective facts when I simply cannot see how they are (aside from the broken physics), and saying that something is wrong with me or that I have horrible taste for thinking the way I do isn't going to do any more to make me see that your opinions are fact.

Edited by T-Man

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- Almost none of the content in this game is actually original. I can't think of a single thing about this game that I didn't find in other Sonic games, done much better to boot. Not even talking explicitly about the level aesthetics here either.

- Hey guys, let's throw in a level gimmick around limited sight radius! There's no way this could turn out to be completely counterintuitive to the game's main gimmick at all! No sir!

Way to undermine yourself dude. Just because you didn't like the concept behind the Torch doesn't mean you can push aside its implementation as nothing. You would be hard pressed to find another stage exactly like World of Darkness (Sandopolis 2 is as close as I can get - but the light source there was universal).

That stage was wildly original as far as Sonic stages go. How often in this series has a portable source of light also happened to be the catalyst in various puzzles.

Edited by Sega DogTagz

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@Blacklightning

Sonic 4 episode 1 had its flaws yes, but so much of the stuff you say is JUST YOUR OPINION.

Like it or not, that is just the way it is.

I loved the game, I also didnt take it TOO seriously considering it was the first episode and I really feel like part of the reason it was made was for feedback.

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