Speed

[SuperStingray]

I'll just throw it out there: how important is speed to you in a Sonic title?

If you ask me, speed is what made Sonic unique, but it isn't what made Sonic great. It's not the speed alone that made Sonic enjoyable, but rather the creative use of it in a platforming environment. I mean, if you look at the original titles, you'll see that Sonic has a lot more than just simple speed going for him. In fact, only about half of the levels in the original game were focused on speed. If you look at the gameplay of the daytime stages in Unleashed, whether you think it's good or bad, I don't think it captures the same essence of the early titles because while it uses speed, it doesn't really focus on much more than that. Frankly, I feel the importance of speed was just exaggerated in marketing Sonic because he was supposed to be the poster boy for the Genesis and they needed to emphasize Blast Processing ^{© ® TM} somehow.

Edited April 21, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Diogenes]

I'll just throw it out there: how important is speed to you in a Sonic title?

Very.

You can rant all you want about how the new games are too fast and how there needs to be more platforming and that Sonic isn't all about speed, but without speed it isn't Sonic. It's not just a nice little bonus. It's a vital component, and without it you aren't making a Sonic game.

[ovarloard]

The only reason I buy Sonic games is for the speed and platforming combination. That, and the music, but that's besides the point.

Mario's got all the platforming I need. If I didn't need speed, I'd get Mario games instead.

Anyone can say all he or she wants against speed; it's what really made the series popular and most likely keeps it popular, due to the lack of proper Sonic platformers nowadays.

[SuperStingray]

Very.

You can rant all you want about how the new games are too fast and how there needs to be more platforming and that Sonic isn't all about speed, but without speed it isn't Sonic. It's not just a nice little bonus. It's a vital component, and without it you aren't making a Sonic game.

I think speed is a very vital component, but I just think it's more important that it's used right than in the game at all. I don't want a simple Mario game, but I don't want F-Zero thinly disguised as a platformer either.

[Solid SOAP]

I think that the Sonic day-time levels got both speed and platforming ironed out ALMOST perfectly. There just need to be a bit more controllable sections, less QTEs, and more actual platforming. Less straight paths where you dodge things and sections where you run into enemies to knock out the flying robots too.

[Phos]

The "platforming" in Sonic Unleashed was laughable, they were typically the kind of stuff I'd expect to see in an average user level in Little Big Planet. Two floating platforms was the best they could come up with? Seriously?

Anyway, speed has been massively misused in Unleashed. The levels seem to be set up to make Sonic move fast... whether he likes it or not.

[SuperStingray]

The "platforming" in Sonic Unleashed was laughable, they were typically the kind of stuff I'd expect to see in an average user level in Little Big Planet. Two floating platforms was the best they could come up with? Seriously?

Anyway, speed has been massively misused in Unleashed. The levels seem to be set up to make Sonic move fast... whether he likes it or not.

While I agree speed was misused in the daytime stages, I don't think that it's entirely dismissible. Platforming was relatively far between, more than it should be in a Sonic game, but it was there, mainly in the 2D sections. The real problem is that the speed gets around all that, and when it doesn't it just seems to break up the flow. Most of the true platforming was allocated to the Werehog stages which hardly had any focus on speed or flow which really misses the point. I don't think they should make Sonic slow, just slowER. Edited April 21, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[ovarloard]

While I agree speed was misused in the daytime stages, I don't think that it's entirely dismissible. Platforming was relatively far between, more than it should be in a Sonic game, but it was there, mainly in the 2D sections. The real problem is that the speed gets around all that, and when it doesn't it just seems to break up the flow. Most of the true platforming was allocated to the Werehog stages which hardly had any focus on speed or flow which really misses the point. I don't think they should make Sonic slow, just slowER.

The 2D sections were quite slow compared to the 3D parts, at least in the Wii version. And it seems a lot harder to actually "platform" in the 3D sections with the camera locked as is. So I think there should be a balance between sections made for pure speed (3D) and for platforming (2D).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's a major part of the series. You can't deny that speed is what makes Sonic.

But too much of one thing can be bad for you depending on how much is focused on it. Sonic Unleashed is a prime example of using speed the wrong way, as it's generally a press X to blast through the stage type of game.

It's not so much of the focus though than it is on what they do with it. If you're just simply guiding Sonic by tilting the control stick and doing a quick step every once in a while, then you've made quite a mediocre game. Sonic was a platformer, never a racing game, and Unleashed's daytime stages delve into the racing genre more than anything else. And if I wanted to play a racing game, there are plenty of titles that I could play rather than the Daytime stages.

Make speed work for Sonic, not the other way around. Sonic's not a Formula-1 race car or a maglev train, he can do more than run and grind a rail in the games.

[Gamenerd]

I'm torn on the matter. I love the classics, but I was always disappointed as a kid that they were no were near as fast as advertised. Now we've got the technology for that kind of speed, and we've got nothing to show for it.

I say they've reached a cross-roads; either return to platforming with a speedy twist, or accept the path they've taken, make another game with the Unleashed engine (possibly without Night Stages, please) and fill it to the brim with racer-esque choices like a 2P race, the ability to save recordings for levels, and time attack leaderboards. I'd prefer the first option, but SEGA has shown no sign of being capable of that anymore, so the second option seems more likey from SEGA's current team.

[DarkOverord]

The speed component is a bit too excessive now for my likes. =/ I'm beginning to just not bother with Sonic games anymore >.>

I mean, I think that is Sonic's main feature so it should be important. But, the games are now a bit fast for my liking >.>

[JezMM]

Frankly, if they ever make a game too much slower than Unleashed was, Sonic will completely lose his rush for me.

I thought Unleashed's speed was perfect. There was never a moment where the game FORCED you to be fast when you didn't absoloutely need to be fast. Yes it still had zippers and automated sections but they never flung you towards death. Anyone who moans about trial and error shouldn't have been using the boost so much on a level they aren't familiar with. You get so much of the boost I see it as a cinematic fun thing for certain areas for beginner players, and a time attack tool for expert players.

Play the level normally with minimal boost, Sonic doesn't go too fast for you to see what's coming. Once you know the level THEN try it boosting all the way through. It's so satisfying to complete a perfect run at maximum speed.

The only thing they need to sort out is the platforming controls, though admittidly once you play the game enough and "learn" how the physics work in it, I don't have too much of a problem with these sections.

Oh, and also, keep QTEs, but make them the same every time. Randomised ones with short time limits should be for "hard mode" and secret levels only, if even that.

Edited April 21, 2009 by JezMM

[Cortez]

Tone Sonic back down to his SA2 speed and you've got the perfect speed for both running and platforming. I honestly don't know why Unleashed gets the praise it does, unless you're running on something you can't fall off of its hard not to, even the 3D platforming was god awful, the stage entrance areas were abysmal, the platforming sections in them may as well have been a test of luck rather than skill and the platforming areas in the actual stages were no better. STH06 had better platforming sections than Unleashed...

[JezMM]

STH06 had better platforming sections than Unleashed...

I actually thought the platforming was about as good in both games. The main difference is that Unleashed plays like a wheel on wheels, whereas 2006 plays like a brick on wheels. Except the wheels are bricks.

[Scarlet2106]

I want it to play more like a speed-run and less like F-Zero.

[JezMM]

Out of interest, all these F-Zero complaints... Are these coming from WiiS2 players or PS360 ones? Coz if it's the former I can totally understand, but the the latter... there's hardly any drifting in that at all. O.o

[Scarlet2106]

360 for me. Regardless of that, F-Zero doesn't have drifting either.

In my case, it's because of the boost, the low camera angle, the general speed, and that Eggmanland looks like a cross between Mute City, Fire Field and Lightning in F-Zero GX.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Arcane

[SykoTech]

I'll never understand why people think that SA2 had the right execution of speed.

I'd say that the game is hardly fast at all. When I first played City Escape and got to the part where Sonic runs down the building, I was like "Is this serously as fast as he can go? Really?" After experiencing the Speed Highway moment, that was just laughable. Hell, even Knuckles and Rouge felt faster at times. Pathetic. The only time I truly felt fast in SA2 was during some grinding parts in Final Rush, vine swinging parts in Green Forest, and when using the Light Speed Dash. Having automated moments like those be the only time where the sense of speed is achieved is the prime example of how not to use speed in Sonic games. And it's not like platforming made up for the abysmal speed. Generic "jump on platform A, then platform B" stuff aplenty, and Sonic's floaty jump just made it worse. His bounce move made things a little better, but you don't get that 'til late in the game anyway.

If their going to tone Sonic down, SA1 is where they should go. Great sense of speed, and it was achievable almost anywhere. But platforming still remained intact.

I think that Dio got it right as far as the topic goes. Without speed, it just isn't Sonic to me. So that makes it pretty darn important. Bring up those dime a dozen rants about Sonic being a platformer not a racer all you want people, but it's simply Sonic's game...and his name! (lol Brawl)

I'd say that my biggest problem with franchise is the lack of focus on Sonic's trademark ability in favor of making the game consistent mostly of "new experiences" (aka gimmicks). If I actually wanted to play a slow-paced platformer, shooter, brawler, or driving game I'd just pick up a game that's handled all of that stuff better than Sonic EVER has. There's plenty to choose from there. Even if the gimmick was good (which hasn't happened but Werehog was at least tolerable) the lack of having anything to do with why I play a Sonic game still remains a hefty disappointment.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Syke

[JezMM]

360 for me. Regardless of that, F-Zero doesn't have drifting either.

In my case, it's because of the boost, the low camera angle, the general speed, and that Eggmanland looks like a cross between Mute City, Fire Field and Lightning in F-Zero GX.

Well in all fairness that sounds more like an aesthetic similarity then. Gameplay-wise they're totally different. Not only that, but EggmanLand is possibly THE most platformy level in the whole game.

Oh, and just so it seems relevant, the reason I mentioned drifting is because that's the only time it ever feels like a racing game to me...

[MizukiMoon]

Sure I like Sonic running to some extent, but to me the slower he is, the better. Like in the older games up until SA2, he was fast, but he wasn't TOO fast, so you could enjoy the scenery and what goes on. These days Sonic's become WAY too fast IMO, now it seems all the new games are focused on is how fast Sonic can run to get from A to B, and that's it, I mean the Sonic Rush games and Sonic Unleashed daytime levels are good examples of that, there's even less enemies in the way these days, unlike the older games which were slower.

So to me, Sonic's running speed really bothers me if he's too fast, I'd rather have Sonic being slower, because then I find the games more enjoyable, like how I used to enjoy pretty much every Sonic game up until SA2, unlike now.

[Jetstreamx]

Out of all the gimmicks ever to be in a Sonic game, Speed is by far the best, and the faster he is, the better. Yes.

[SykoTech]

Frankly, if they ever make a game too much slower than Unleashed was, Sonic will completely lose his rush for me.

I honestly don't know if they would now that I think about it.

Sonic's speed being the biggest hook he has, I'd doubt that they'd take that away from him. It's not like there has been an outcry from the general public about Sonic being too fast or concentrating on running too much. If anything it's the opposite as the main complaints stem from Sonic having over 50% filler content or having gimmicks integrated right into the entire game (Heroes, ShtH, Black Knight, etc.). Just look at all the negative articles IGN has about Sonic. I don't think a single one of them is dedicated to Sonic being too speedy.

Making Sonic slower would be like reducing the combat quotient in Ratchet & Clank to that of R&C 1. Sure, they'd satisfy a handful of those in the fanboys, but they'd risk of having the general public put off by seeing as a big step backwards. The only way I see them making Sonic a lot slower (spin-offs aside) is by making a full-fledged Classic Sonic game. People would probably be too hypnotized by the classic appeal to notice or care how fast Sonic is. But to gimp Sonic back to his SA2 speed and gameplay? I don't think so...

[Phos]

Sonic topped out way too slow in SA2. I'm not advocating slowing Sonic down by cutting his numeric top speed. It's mostly a matter of altering the level design philosophy so there's actually stuff to do in them. It felt like you were mostly just along for the ride in Unleashed.

[SykoTech]

As much as I love Unleashed, I certainly wouldn't object to a change in level design either. I'd love to actually be able to run around those giant levels they generated rather than just being stuck running on set pathways. It would be like Spiderman 2, only with the freedom of running rather than swinging. Of course, they'd have to take out all the bottomless pits to get that to work. Again, not something I'd object to.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Syke

[Gatestormer]

I love the speed in Unleashed, I love using the boost constantly and I do get a great amount of satisfaction when I can do everything right while boosting. BUT, I also like to play the levels slowly sometimes and never use the boost and I can understand why people may not like it.

There's one way around this to please everyone.

Give us the boost in Unleashed, but don't make it compulsory in some levels. Levels like Windmill Isle and Savannah Citadel give you the option the boost, but you're never going to be forced to use it. Levels like Adabat give you the option to boost but also at some points force it on you. We shouldn't be punished for playing a game how we want to. (Only downside I can see is, without the boost being compulsory how will we ever see incredible moments like running on water again? )(EDIT: I was proven wrong )

Also take out dash panels (ESPECIALLY on loops), either totally or make them rare. Areas I can think of like the beginning of Speed Highway for example make you run fast no matter what, but that isn't always wanted, for the people who do want to go fast no matter what, there's the boost they can use to thrill their speed needs, for the people who don't, they shouldn't need to touch the boost.

Edited April 21, 2009 by ENVY16