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Sonic Generations : General Hacking Thread

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Wait, when and where did he say that?

I can remember him replying to a thread on the sega forums relating to the leaked levels list , unfortunately, I can't confirm exactly what it was he said for definite as they're still down, but I'm 95% sure it was along those lines

Edited by Ryan91

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I'd accept this if City Escape and Crisis City weren't also on the cards. They're all city stages. Two would be fine, three would be tolerable but four is just annoying.

...

I don't care how different they may be, they're still cites that have been chosen at the expense of far more interesting levels.

At this point it really is your problem. I'm sorry, but if you can't trust the developers to blow your mind and add variation for these levels, then I can't take your arguments seriously. Remember when people expected Green Hill Zone to look like Seaside Hill? I think the reveal shut them up. The same will be true when we see every level finally released in HD and in a re-imagined light. You're hating the concept, but you'll most likely love the outcome.

It's simply not the most interesting choice of levels when you consider everything else on offer in older games.

That's up to the opinion of the individual.

But, there are mountains, in Green Hill. And ruins, in Ocean Palace. Possibly no volcano, i dunno they might throw one in somewhere. And there is pinball with the Casino Night minigame. Chemical Plant is an Eggman base, where he makes the Mega Mack in the level.

Only two of the tropes you just mentioned aren't in the game.

Crisis City is as good as a lava stage. It's full of the stuff, and need we have Sonic mention that the whole city is on fire?

Also, FIRE TORNADOES. COME ON, PEOPLE.

Edited by Indigo Rush

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Alright, looking through more assets dumps and translating some Japanese (best I can) there is some more specifics, but likely most interesting is a manuscript of how the game should progress at the very begining, and what you need to do to complete it, including cutscene titles. The missions are included else-where, so I will post the interesting bits that happen OUTSIDE of the stages in terms of progression.

GREEN HILL ZONE:

Event 01- White World

Event 02- Restoring Green Hill Zone

Event 03- To Chemical Plant (Chemical Plant is unlocked after this event, though more missions are still available to complete in Green Hill)

COMPLETING missions in Green Hill Zone restore more of Green Hill Zone, and two of them give you something known as, "Boss Keys" which you presumably have to collect a certain amount of to unlock bosses.

CHEMICAL PLANT ZONE:

COMPLETING Classic and Modern Sonic's stages restores half of Chemical Plant each. Once both are restored...

Event 04- Here in the Past (Sky Sanctuary is unlocked after this event, though more missions are still available to complete in Chemical Plant)

COMPLETING missions in Chemical Plant Zone restore more of Chemical Plant Zone, and two of them give you something known as, "Boss Keys" which you presumably have to collect a certain amount of to unlock bosses.

Unfortunately, Sky Sanctuary Zone's information is not complete like the rest of the list, we do get one event for the boss of Death Egg tough.

EVENT ??- After Him! (Checking up on one another)

Making the known events as such:

EVENT 01- White World (Green Hill)

EVENT 02- Restoring Green Hill Zone (Green Hill)

EVENT 03- To Chemical Plant (Green Hill)

EVENT 04- Here in the Past (Chemical Plant)

EVENT ??- After Him! (Checking up on one another)

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I worded that poorly; apparently, he said some of the list was correct and some of it was incorrect. At this point, he could have been referring to how it said "Bingo Highway" instead of Seaside Hill, but still. My bad. :P

That could actually be what he was referring to . Hmmm, still interesting though!

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I think the list makes sense, 3 stages from the three era's of sonic gaming.

I dont see why people are still complaining, the only thing i dont understand is why sonic o6 is reprasented. I wish i could find the article but i remember them saying it takes place in an alternate universe, different from the sonic universe we know.

Besides at least SEGA gave all the Modern Sonic haters Classic Sonic, so i dont think anyone should be complaining.

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Just going to point out that since Seaside Hill is really Ocean Palace, or at least has heavy Ocean Palace elements, and Green Hill has Emerald Hill's corkscrews...it's completely possible that we'll get a bit of Flame Core in Crisis City. There's your volcano/lava level.

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But, there are mountains, in Green Hill. And ruins, in Ocean Palace. Possibly no volcano, i dunno they might throw one in somewhere. And there is pinball with the Casino Night minigame. Chemical Plant is an Eggman base, where he makes the Mega Mack in the level.

Only two of the tropes you just mentioned aren't in the game.

Edited by Blue Blood

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Chemical Plant is a factory/city, not one of Eggmans bases. I'm talking Scrap Brain, Final Egg, Final Fortress. You know, those sorts of levels.

So factory levels only count if they have "Final" or "Egg" in them? A factory/industrial level is a factory/industrial. It doesn't matter if Eggman runs the joint. Which he probably does. Actually, yes, it IS his.

Flash through a high-tech maze built with pipes and ducts. Robotnik's flooded the factory with a pool of toxic liquid called "Mega Mack" that poisons Sonic in a few moments!

http://info.sonicretro.org/Chemical_Plant_Zone

There ya go.

Mountains in Green Hill really don't count. At all. They're in the background, and it's still very much Green Hill Zone in every sense. Red Mountain, Radical Train, Dragon Road, Flame Core and others like them would count as mountain stages.

I never saw mountain levels as particularly popular with most of the fanbase. Besides, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMLrpnjwyTU, and yes, Green Hill is partially a mountain level. You don't scale them necessarily, but they're there (actually, you kind of do in some areas of Generations).

Sonic-Generations-GameSpot-Screenshot-2.jpg

Sonic-Generations-GameSpot-Screenshot-1.jpg

Crisis City is also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHVNWN9SXEg. The burning buildings are lodged into them, in fact.

Edited by Indigo Rush

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I respond with the stage thoughts after a day by reposting the below:

You know, thinking about it... Some of these stages and what's memorable about them could make some freaking awesome twists on stages.

Imagine Crisis City with Iblis roaming about and crashing and destroying things and getting in your way through the stage?

Imagine Seaside Hill with giant rolling boulders of evil and riding turtles across the ocean in new extreme ways?

Imagine Sky Sanctuary with a crazed Mecha Sonic trying to stop you at every turn with a barrage of traps and machines like some crazy stalker killer?

Imagine Chemical Plant with raising water levels and tons of harmful chemicals spewing out of pipes in every direction at high speeds?

Imagine Speed Highway being chased by a police force of robot monkeys as they barrage down a building after you, across twisted roads, and taking rides on helicopters?

Just imagine it all.

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I'm pretty happy with the list as of now. Yes the game could have more variety in the tropes but the levels picked are still awesome. My only complaints are that S3&K is one game and that Kingdom valley didn't get in.(though crisis city was my second want for this! :) ) Yes Seaside hill is shown but it's not just the island it's mostly ocean palace from what I'm hearing. Plus It probably will be more underwater than tropical. Now I wanted hang castle or egg fleet but I'm perfectly happy with this. Besides that the that the game seems like a great game that will offer lots of replay value. I know people are disappointed with the list but it still a great game even though not everyone can get what they want. Plus I always look up to Sega making the right choice and adding Dlc that will hopefully lesson the hate.

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Chemical Plant is a factory/city, not one of Eggmans bases.

Honest question: What's the difference? Scrap Brain is clearly also a city and also a factory. And I'm not really sure what other traits it has that makes it a base and not a facitory like CPZ.

I'm not saying the two levels are the same (CPZ has water!), I'mjust wondering how they have differing themes at all.

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I know, right? Everyone suddenly seems blind. It's absurd, isn't it?

Yes, I guess I'm blind because I don't like one level, while I happen to love the other levels, bosses choices, power-ups, choices of music, appearing characters, missions, cutscenes list, and pretty much everything else that has been leaked without fail.

fucking-eye-doctors-think-im-blind-thumb.jpg

Edited by EXshad

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Honest question: What's the difference? Scrap Brain is clearly also a city and also a factory. And I'm not really sure what other traits it has that makes it a base and not a facitory like CPZ.

I'm not saying the two levels are the same (CPZ has water!), I'mjust wondering how they have differing themes at all.

Not much to be honest with you, but it's still something about the theme of this game. We have Death Egg is some form though.

At this point it really is your problem. I'm sorry, but if you can't trust the developers to blow your mind and add variation for these levels, then I can't take your arguments seriously. Remember when people expected Green Hill Zone to look like Seaside Hill? I think the reveal shut them up. The same will be true when we see every level finally released in HD and in a re-imagined light. You're hating the concept, but you'll most likely love the outcome.

That's up to the opinion of the individual.

Crisis City is as good as a lava stage. It's full of the stuff, and need we have Sonic mention that the whole city is on fire?

Also, FIRE TORNADOES. COME ON, PEOPLE.

Oh believe me, they'll blow my mind. The caves in Green Hill, the giant Chopper, the FREAKIN' SADISTIC TRUCK... yeah, they've blowm my mind a few times already and it's definitely going to happen some more. I'm hating the idea of so many similar types of stages. Like I've said time and time again, it's the collection of stages I have a problem with, not any one individually.

Crisis City does count as a fire stage, but it's also another city. Chemical Plant counts as a factory, but again it's another city.

Indigo, for goodness sake, I totally understand what you're getting at. It's not like we've been given S3 Ice Cap, SA1 Ice Cap and Advance1 Ice Mountain (because the similarities between those three are EXTREME), right? We've got a factory city with Mega Mack, a traditional Italian City, a midnight highway, San Francisco and a tornado carrying a car. However, is it hard for you to comprehend that I am personally disappointed by the fact that there are so many cities (and two GHZs)? Not seeing a great variety is so sad.

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Hey what's going o-

Oh god those levels.

Really, they did absolutely everything wrong that could have possibly gone wrong.

…Well, why is it wrong?

modern levels severely outweigh the classic levels,
For this game, Sega and Sonic Team officially designated separation of the Modern Era as two: The Adventure Era (from Adventure to Heroes) and Modern (2006 to Colors Wii). In all, there are an even nine main levels: three Classic, three Adventure, three Modern.

and there's no Sonic 3 or CD to be found.
Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were supposed to be one game, but they were split due to time restraints. Also, the fanbase considers Sonic 3 & Knuckles to be the REAL Sonic 3, so it's one-and-one.

And Sonic CD is the most obscure main Sonic title. There was little advertising for it, and it was on a very faulty system, so not as many bothered to get it.

Were they really pressed for what levels to use? Variety has usually been a strong point of the series and this shit's the best they could come up with?
No one knows for sure, but there are many possible reasons.

1. A while ago, there was a poll asking fans what their most favorite levels were in each game. While we don't know the FINAL results, many of the final nine were among the overall popular choices before the poll was disabled.

2. There's also a huge casual factor. We're comprised of very faithful fans, but what about those who follow the series very loosely? City Escape, Rooftop Run, Planet Wisp, and Speed Highway are not just insanely popular. They're iconic, too. Ask them what level form Sonic Adventure 2, Unleashed, Colors, Adventure, and Heroes they remember fondly the most, and they're likely going to choose many of them in that list.

3. This leads back to Sonic Team's viewpoint. They wanted to carry occasional variety choices while simultaneously try to relive the iconic levels of each game. This list makes sense because they're all highly RAVED. We as a fanbase are only PART of the target. There are millions of people out there who will want to grasp this game, but Sega has to advertise to convince them to get it. Placing in memorable levels among the casuals and non-Sonic fans does the trick. Compromise is necessary so the game can actually SELL!

The levels on their own are nice choices, but as a whole this list is just flat-out disappointing. If this is what the final product is going to be like then my interest in the game will practically be nonexistent, which was already average to begin with, but I was at least curious about the levels to be used and how they could still construct an ordinary Sonic game when put together. Seems like even this isn't going to happen and it turns out to be a generic mesh of levels with more redundancy than awe.

Well, you're being incredibly ridiculous here.

Just because we'll be seeing more familiar surroundings does NOT mean the game will be a "generic mesh" like you're claiming. City Escape and Green Hill have VERY different layouts and mechanics to make the game feel fresh and welcoming. The Modern level designs have been much more than just "boost to win," and there is depth into them. We saw the level choices and what the structure might be, but the progression is something we have NOT seen. Read or listen about the summary of the plot: time holes are involved, but that's all for the story thus far, really. The playing of the levels could go from Classic to Modern to Modern to Adventure, et cetera.

By the way, this game is not just a commemoration of the Classic Era, but the ENTIRE series, so complaining about there being less Classic levels is very silly. There are twenty years of a very lively, iconic franchise, and Sonic Team wants to equally connect to every single heart of fans of all eras along with newcomers to expand its brand. These level choices are there to help bridge these tribes so we can all communicate with one another. Cramming in every single detail and every different environment and having it handed it to us on a silver platter makes no sense and is too costly. The last thing Sega wants is a relapse of Shenmue.

Edited by Attitude Adjustment

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However, is it hard for you to comprehend that I am personally disappointed by the fact that there are so many cities (and two GHZs)? Not seeing a great variety is so sad.

It actually kind of is, because I don't see why it's such a problem. There is in fact great variety, but you're looking at the similarities more than the differences.

Seaside Hill will look much more like Ocean Palace than Green Hill Zone, for example. Crisis City will certainly focus on the lava and flaming tornado aspects, and melted city will provide a very different experience than a... not melted city. City Escape and Speed Highway are only similar in the fact that they have highways and roads that aren't burning. They make up for it with different times of day and a very different location. We're comparing towering skyscrapers to low-level urban shops.

I hear the argument, but so far, it translates to "it has city/highway in the name, therefore it's too similar!"

Please let there be those giant turtles sonic can walk on in Sonic generations' version of Ocean palace/seaside hill!

Another big difference between that and Green Hill. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Edited by Indigo Rush

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What's the fuss about Chemical Plant? I can't wait to see Modern Sonic run on grape soda in glorious HD.

Making the known events as such:

EVENT 01- White World (Green Hill)

EVENT 02- Restoring Green Hill Zone (Green Hill)

EVENT 03- To Chemical Plant (Green Hill)

EVENT 04- Here in the Past (Chemical Plant)

EVENT ??- After Him! (Checking up on one another)

Ah HA! I knew the level progression would go according to chronology. It makes more sense that way, at least in the context of a Sonic game.

Also, I wonder what EVENT ?? could be? "After Him!"? Is it a Metal Sonic race? I'm sure you know what I'm alluding to.

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No. No no no no no.

I shouldn't have put ruins on that list because Seaside Hill (stop fucking calling it Ocean Palace, people. Do you not remember the latter half of SSH looking EXACTLY like Ocean Palace?) and Sky Sanctuary definitely count. My bad.

i have no idea what ssh is, but it's obviously Ocean Palace, Seaside Hill didn't have the ruins.

Casino Night is a mini-stage/mini-game. It's also an extra stage that you have to puy separately from the rest of the game. It certainly does not count.

Yet it's pinball. Like you said wasn't there, and it very clearly is, even if you have to pay for it.

Chemical Plant is a factory/city, not one of Eggmans bases. I'm talking Scrap Brain, Final Egg, Final Fortress. You know, those sorts of levels. Death Egg is listed as a boss, so regardless of whether it's the S2 or Sk version it does count somewhat, but it's still only a boss stage. That's disappointing.

It is an Eggman base though. It's his factory. Therefore, it's an Eggman base. It fits every description of an Eggman base (mechanical, constant traps, large factory) even though it's the second level. Not to mention like you said, there's Death Egg.

Mountains in Green Hill really don't count. At all. They're in the background, and it's still very much Green Hill Zone in every sense. Red Mountain, Radical Train, Dragon Road, Flame Core and others like them would count as mountain stages.

Green Hill has you running on mountains, in fact that's the entire level. The whole place are giant mountains sticking out of the sea. It also has you going though caves, like Red Mountain. Dragon Road is more of a stretch to call a mountain stage, because you're never actually in or on a mountain, although you often go through valleys of some kind.

Just because it doesn't fit in the giant rocky everything is brown possibly lava doesn't mean it's not a mountain. It's still dizzying heights, large view of surrounding scenery and such. It fits.

Not to mention Flame Core is a volcano/lava stage more than a mountain. It'll more than likely be in Crisis City as well.

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Not much to be honest with you, but it's still something about the theme of this game.

I dunno,if there's not sctually a difference like you're admitting, then I don't think it's something about the game. I think it's something about you being an insatiable whiney shit.

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Not seeing a great variety is so sad.

It's like we've all forgotten what variety even means. Or maybe I'm just fucking insane and my definition of variety has be skewed the majority of my 20 years of existence. I really don't know anymore looking into this topic.

There is variety in these stages. Absolutely none of them are alike in their original forms when you compare them and the outcome will be the same in the final version of this game.

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