Sonic Generations : General Hacking Thread

[Red Hot Jack]

Modern Sonic has Rocket Wisp too, I think it was on a modern mission.

I like that list, it's made of fan-favourites, I'm just angry because it could've been way better (with an ice level); I also like that Sonic has to "restore" the zones, like the continents in Unleashed, that was epic.

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1st post at SSMB

[Milo]

Not exactly sure if this was already posted here.....but.......

[Edit: I spoke with representatives from Sega after this article was published--it's not surprising it caught their attention. While in conversation' date= it was revealed that some of the things we showed were in fact works in progress and not final products. As a result, we're pulling these things as we feel they are basically rumor. Since we had prior confirmation from another source on the level list, we're keeping it as accurate.]

[The-Master-Board]

Ice Cap would have been the logical choice because it could have literally been Cool Edge Act 6. They could have blatantly ripped the Unleashed's assets and then slapped "ICE CAP" on the front and everyone would have been happy.

[DaN]

Ice Cap could be splitted in different scenarios:

- snowy wood while snowing

- avalance with snowboard

- cave

- frozen lake side

it would be fun to see the level by night and sunset

Edited June 30, 2011 by ^DiZnEy^

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I beg your pardon?

Ice Cap is nothing like Cool Edge at all. The former is surreal with icy crystalised patterns and strange designs like a Sonic level, the latter is just like a bland glacier of real world comparison. I really don't see the likeness.

Edited June 30, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Indigo Rush]

Tell that to SA1's version of the Ice Cap. The only thing lacking in it is an ocean of water, but it's no less generic than Cool Edge as far as ice stages go. In fact, SA1's Ice Cap is pretty much Cool Edge despite that, with more primitive looking graphics by comparison.

Disagree. Ice Cap Zone Act 1 is mostly inside of a blue crystalline cave with slippery slopes and that weird platform-on-a-chain gimmick.

SA1's Ice Cap had a pretty large chunk of cave as well. Cool Edge hardly has any caves.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Disagree. Ice Cap Zone Act 1 is mostly inside of a blue crystalline cave with slippery slopes and that weird platform-on-a-chain gimmick.

Are you being sarcastic here or are you serious?

SA1's Ice Cap had a pretty large chunk of cave as well. Cool Edge hardly has any caves.

Dude, there were plenty of caves in Cool Edge. The Night time has you in caves majority of the time, no different from Ice Cap. In fact, they were leagues larger than SA1's Ice Cap.

Edited June 30, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[The-Master-Board]

Tell that to SA1's version of the Ice Cap. The only thing lacking in it is an ocean of water, but it's no less generic than Cool Edge as far as ice stages go. In fact, SA1's Ice Cap is pretty much Cool Edge despite that, with more primitive looking graphics by comparison.

True, but I would never consider Ice cap from SA to be the true Ice cap, just an alternate one, or even a different place altogether. Just like "Angel Island" from Sonic Advance though sharing the name isn't exactly "Angel Island" now is it?

Anyways, I doubt they'd ever have considered Ice Cap from SA of all games for representation. Lost World would've been my pick, defintely more enjoyable than another street city level, or they could've gone the Windy Valley option as in left out Sky Sanctuary as the "Ruin/Sky" type trope in place of Windy Valley and then could've had some more unique options for their Sonic3&K's choices. (I'm yet to see a "wooded" level, and Mushroom Hill in Generations style could've been epic!)

[Indigo Rush]

Are you being sarcastic here or are you serious?

Serious. You play Ice Cap (Act 1) inside of a blue cave:

Dude, there were plenty of caves in Cool Edge.

Not as many as in Ice Cap, though. You see some caves in Cool Edge, but you spend an entire section inside a cave in Ice Cap.

The Night time has you in caves majority of the time, no different from Ice Cap. In fact, they were even larger than SA1's Ice Cap.

See, no one really uses the Werehog levels as an example. You spend a lot of time outside the caves, for the record.

[Carbo]

Are you being sarcastic here or are you serious?

Not to mention just check out that intro - significantly different from Cool Edge. Snow-capped hills, trees, mountains, etc.

Dude, there were plenty of caves in Cool Edge. The Night time has you in caves majority of the time, no different from Ice Cap. In fact, they were even larger than SA1's Ice Cap.

That was way back in the 2000s. If they had the tech to render the bigger caves like that then they would. Not to mention that was a Werehog stage.

Now I know the cave segment in SA was slow paced as well, but imagine how it would be if you'd run at supersonic speeds through a vast cave like the one in Ice Cap Sonic 3 while witnessing the horizon through the holes and cracks. That would just be immense.

I think the main difference between Ice Cap (SA1) and Cool Edge can mostly be summed up thus.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Indigo with the same video even.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Carbo

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Serious. You play Ice Cap (Act 1) inside of a blue cave:

I specifically said SA1's Ice Cap. Not Sonic 3 & Knuckles, dude.

Not as many as in Ice Cap, though. You see some caves in Cool Edge, but you spend an entire section inside a cave in Ice Cap.

And you spend entire sections outside of the cave as well. But while that may be the case, you spend a few times running on the ocean. Ice Cap has no ocean.

Regardless, the number of cave's isn't exactly relevant to the point that the overall level theme for both stages was an ice tundra and that one could very easily call the two the same regarding how they look.

That was way back in the 2000s. If they had the tech to render the bigger caves like that then they would.

They did when it came around the sequel as large as those levels were. The only difference being that there wasn't any ice stages in SA2, but rest assured they definitely had the tech and could've very well made one if they had chosen to do so.

Not to mention that was a Werehog stage.

See, no one really uses the Werehog levels as an example.

Oh, no sir. That's a very jacked up reason not to use them as an example, and if you're going to debate with me about it then disregarding them is not going to fly with me either.

We've used every material in the previous games to make our points whether we liked them or not, including those that aren't having you speed around at 300mph or overall running really fast, so side stepping this one comes off as rather hypocritical just because the werehog is in it.

You spend a lot of time outside the caves, for the record.

Maybe "majority" was too much, but you spend a lot of time in the caves as much as you do out.

Edited June 30, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Indigo Rush]

Ice Cap is within a cave and on top of an Alpine mountain.

Cool Edge is in the Arctic.

See, both have snow, but there are some stark differences, the presence of mountains and evergreens in Ice Cap, and the water-front chunks of ice and giant whales in Cool Edge.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Ice Cap is within a cave and on top of an Alpine mountain.

Cool Edge is in the Arctic.

See, both have snow, but there are some stark differences, the presence of mountains and evergreens in Ice Cap, and the water-front chunks of ice and giant whales in Cool Edge.

The point still stands regarding the overall theme for both levels. When you get deeper into the details, there's no mistake there are differences, and I was never denying such (in fact, I actually reinforced that point when I said Cool Edge has oceans and SA1's Ice Cap doesn't). But on the bigger picture, they hold the same theme overall.

EDIT: And also, that does very little to keep SA1's Ice Cap from being seen as equally bland as Holoska's Cool Edge.

Edited June 30, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Carbo]

And you spend entire sections outside of the cave as well. But while that may be the case, you spend a few times running on the ocean. Ice Cap has no ocean.

Again - there's a significant difference between a snow-capped mountain and an icy glacier in the middle of the ocean. While Sonic 3 mixes both up, SA1 seems to want us to believe that the former is the more significant portion of it. They could have easily rendered an ocean if they wanted to or make it like Emerald Coast with just ice instead, but they didn't. For that matter it was designed with the intent to be a snowboarding stage.

I'd want to see how Hedgehog Engine renders snow and snowfall.

Oh, no sir. That's a very jacked up reason not to use them as an example, and if you're going to debate with me about it disregarding them is not going to fly with me either.

We've used every material in the previous games to make our points, including those that aren't having you speed around at 300mph, so side stepping this one comes off as rather hypocritical just because the werehog is in it.

You spend most of time outside of the caves in Werehog. If you'd like to use a ratio, Ice Cap in SA1 is about 5 minutes of a long stage where-as Werehog Cool Edge is about 15 minutes. On average you spend as much time in one as in SA1.

It really isn't that much of a difference. Besides, that they can render it doesn't change the fact it's designed with an entirely different mindset at hand that has to accommodate to an entirely different gameplay style.

[ChikaBoing]

I'll just say that the Wii Cool Edge has lot of caves.

[Carbo]

I'll just say that the Wii Cool Edge has lot of caves.

Never played Unwiished personally. I just checked out a video of it - that was pretty cool. Wish there was more of that in the HD versions.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Again - there's a significant difference between a snow-capped mountain and an icy glacier in the middle of the ocean. While Sonic 3 mixes both up, SA1 seems to want us to believe that the former is the more significant portion of it.

Edited June 30, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Saint Nathan]

I'll just say that the Wii Cool Edge has lot of caves.

[Carbo]

As I said to Indigo, the point still stands regarding the overall theme for both levels. When you get deeper into the details, there's no mistake there are differences, and I was never denying such (in fact, I actually reinforced that point when I said Cool Edge has mountains and SA1's Ice Cap doesn't). But on the bigger picture, they hold the same theme overall.

For the record I had written that post before I saw your reply.

As for what you're saying it's a bit ironic that the small details should be a problem of debate when the same could pretty much apply to people comparing City Escape and Speed Highway.

What the hell does it being designed for a snowboarding stage have to do with how bland the stage is visually?

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

SA for that matter wasn't visually bland for it's time at all.

At no point was talking about gameplay differences in the slightest, and that was made clear the moment you and Indigo tried to use that to disregard the werehog in this argument, and gameplay is rather irrelevant to the overall visual styles that I was talking about.

Pretty clearly we're arguing on entirely different ends of the spectrum here then, because I'm talking about how they're designed and not just visual styles, and even then if we're to bring Sonic 3 Ice Cap as the dominant judge of visual style, it'd have been a significant difference from Unleashed in aesthetics when it comes to how the caves were rendered.

Fuck it. I'm too confused. Too many Ice Caps.

[ChikaBoing]

Also given how intricate Green Hill was remade,with making the Palmtress more plasticy, the checker patterns have a browner tone,the greass having straight lines,the watefall canyons etc. I bet Ice Cap woudn't just be different Cool Edge Level.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

For the record I had written that post before I saw your reply.

[The-Master-Board]

He said Ice Cap was surreal and Cool Edge was bland, and then I came in and said "Tell it to SA1's version of the Ice Cap, which could be seen as just as bland next to it with more primitive graphics by comparison".

[Indigo Rush]

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

We're talking about Ice Cap from Sonic Adventure, not Ice Cap Zone from Sonic 3.

OK.

GOT IT.

MY BAD.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Scar]

And I agreed that to me SA1's Ice Cap was pretty bland. Sonic 3's Ice Cap however visually wise isn't.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Scar

[Marcello]

Or they could just make new ones.