An Open Environment Game

[HyperGogeta]

Like Kigdom Hearts or Spiderman Web of Shadows---

Why doesnt sega make a PURE open environment game? Itd be fun running through an entire city and up the building and across the walls and what not. Do you think it could work and how would you want it done

Edited June 24, 2011 by HyperGogeta

[Gaming Misfit]

Sonic is a platformer series. "Exploring" has never been much of a key idea. Sonic is fine in platforming games. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[Diogenes]

I don't think it'd work. Sonic games need well-directed levels to make the best use of his abilities; plunking him down in a truly open area means that any purposefully designed routes (if there indeed are any) would be lost in the sea of potential routes, and in a lot of cases there are probably more efficient (though less interesting) improvised routes than the designed routes. Not to mention the sheer scale you'd need for a character as fast as Sonic; the average open world game is no bigger to Sonic than Bob-omb Battlefield was to Mario.

[Ekaje]

While I really like messing around in hub worlds, and I do like some open world games, I don't think it really lends itself well to Sonic without basically making it a whole different game.

[Gaming Misfit]

BTW, I think you meant to say Shattered Dimensions. Not Web of Shadows. I own both, and Shattered Dimensions is more about exploring.

[sjmaster92]

Wait what? I'm pretty sure you got the games confused, Web Of Shadows was an open world game, while Shattered Dimensions was level based.

Anyway, on topic, A completely open world just wouldn't work for Sonic for reasons stated already. Although An open world Knuckles or Tails game could work.

Edited June 24, 2011 by sjmaster92

[Scar]

I don't think it'd work. Sonic games need well-directed levels to make the best use of his abilities; plunking him down in a truly open area means that any purposefully designed routes (if there indeed are any) would be lost in the sea of potential routes, and in a lot of cases there are probably more efficient (though less interesting) improvised routes than the designed routes. Not to mention the sheer scale you'd need for a character as fast as Sonic; the average open world game is no bigger to Sonic than Bob-omb Battlefield was to Mario.

Aye.

Sonic at Unleashed speeds, could probably run across the city in GTAIV in a couple of minutes. At boost speeds, you'd blitz through that kind of an area.

Double that length to have a 4-5 min stage would probably give you the length of an average Unleashed stage. Then square that length to make a squar-ish area instead of just a linear level. Thats aready huge. If you make a whole uninterrupted environment for Sonic to roam around in, it would need to be positively gargantuan.

[Gaming Misfit]

Wait what? I'm pretty sure you got the games confused, Web Of Shadows was an open world game, while Shattered Dimensions was level based.

Anyway, on topic, A completely open world just wouldn't work for Sonic for reasons stated already. Although An open world Knuckles or Tails game could work.

Were you replying to my post or just mixed the two up with HIS post? This is confusing.

And I had a certain 2D version of Web of Shadows for my PS2, so it might have just been less open world in comparison for that version I'm thinking of.

It was the "Amazing allies" edition or something.

[HyperGogeta]

BTW, I think you meant to say Shattered Dimensions. Not Web of Shadows. I own both, and Shattered Dimensions is more about exploring.

[Gaming Misfit]

I think shattered deminsionwas the one where you were put in different sections

Remember web of shadows you played as Red and Symbiote Spiderman

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It sounds like a good concept, but you'd have to completely reinvent Sonic in order to work in that kind of game from what he's currently doing. Crusing at 300mph makes it a lot harder to traverse freely as you'd have to pull a difficult turn or you have to stop to turn somewhere else.

That, and you also have to make the environment work for Sonic. Kingdom Hearts and Spiderman don't exactly navigate the environment the same way Sonic would, so Sonic Team would have to put up some serious research in order to find a new formula to work so that Sonic could move freely in an open world environment.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Edited June 24, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

Not to mention you can make a fair argument that it is broken, to some extent.

[Dark Qiviut]

They work in Knuckles's collecting stages, but when it comes to its true core gameplay, no, it doesn't work at all. Sonic is predominately a platformer with a great dose of speed and/or quick-paced gameplay in the mix. Making the game open like a one-hundred-mile-wide map would make the game confusing. Sonic's goal is to go from one point to the next. The sandbox-style Sonic gameplay would make the platforming and purpose of a Sonic game generally redundant.

Sandboxes are great in small doses like Hub Worlds, but an open-world gameplay for Sonic entirely is overkill.

[jeremycarrier]

BTW, I think you meant to say Shattered Dimensions. Not Web of Shadows. I own both, and Shattered Dimensions is more about exploring.

[Gaming Misfit]

It sounds like a good concept, but you'd have to completely reinvent Sonic in order to work in that kind of game from what he's currently doing. Crusing at 300mph makes it a lot harder to traverse freely as you'd have to pull a difficult turn or you have to stop to turn somewhere else.

That, and you also have to make the environment work for Sonic. Kingdom Hearts and Spiderman don't exactly navigate the environment the same way Sonic would, so Sonic Team would have to put up some serious research in order to find a new formula to work so that Sonic could move freely in an open world environment.

Okay, seriously. This is bullshit.

This kind of reason is what causes stagnation in the first place, which is every bit as worse as something broken. It's not about fixing something that isn't broken (technically, you can't even do that to begin with since there's nothing to fix), it's about improving something to make it work better.

That kind of thinking needs to be better left in the dark ages where it belongs.

Aye. But Sonic's concept has only been "exploring" on a few occasions. And how did THEY work out? Terribly. Seriously, if you want to tinker with gameplay and all that, that's great, but Sonic is a platforming series. The RPG based games are considered by alot of people (including myself) to be bad and not suitable for Sonic.

@Jeremy- Aye, lad. I already corrected myself like 3 times now.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Aye. But Sonic's concept has only been "exploring" on a few occasions. And how did THEY work out? Terribly.

Do me a favor: read the post before you quote it. Because you completely missed the point I made.

But since we're on the topic, the only one that had any kind of terrible exploring was Sonic 06, and that was because the game wasn't even finished to begin with nor was the way the went about making it any good. Unleashed was actually finished, but it's problem wasn't because of exploration.

Exploration in and of itself is not a problem in concept, it's a problem in execution. You'd be wise to acknowledge that as opposed to writing it off because the game as a whole suffered.

Mind you, all other games have yet to actually do any kind of free-roam exploring. The only one that comes close would be Sonic 3 & Knuckles alongside it's platforming; you mind telling me how THAT worked out? I'm pretty sure the word "Terribly" doesn't apply.

Seriously, if you want to tinker with gameplay and all that, that's great, but Sonic is a platforming series. The RPG based games are considered by alot of people (including myself) to be bad and not suitable for Sonic.

Find the words RPG in this topic from all except for your post.

Seriously, who said anything about it? The Open Environment is another way of talking about a Sandbox game, not an RPG. Kingdom Hearts was probably used as an example of how open it's worlds are compared to Sonic's, not for it's mechanics.

Edited June 25, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Gaming Misfit]

Do me a favor: read the post before you quote it. Because you completely missed the point I made.

But since we're on the topic, the only one that had any kind of terrible exploring was Sonic 06, and that was because the game wasn't even finished to begin with nor was the way the went about making it any good. Unleashed was actually finished, but it's problem wasn't because of exploration.

Exploration in and of itself is not a problem in concept, it's a problem in execution. You'd be wise to acknowledge that as opposed to writing it off because the game as a whole suffered.

Mind you, all other games have yet to actually do any kind of free-roam exploring. The only one that comes close would be Sonic 3 & Knuckles alongside it's platforming; you mind telling me how THAT worked out? I'm pretty sure the word "Terribly" doesn't apply.

Find the words RPG in this topic from all except for your post.

Seriously, who said anything about it? The Open Environment is another way of talking about a Sandbox game, not an RPG. Kingdom Hearts was probably used as an example of how open it's worlds are compared to Sonic's, not for it's mechanics.

Well this will be interesting.

1. How did I disregard your post? I was just responding to it. Problem?

2. I haven't played 06 yet, so I have no say. However, I've heard it sucks. I'll take it and the gameplay I've seen to heart.

3. I was referring to the Sonic RPG games, Chronicles, which also showed some exploring.

4. I was actually considering mentioning that in my post, but I left it out. Sonic 3&K is a great example of how exploring can be handled, it can be a small side element for the game, however mind you, it should NOT be the main aspect, which is what Hyper was talking about. A game FOCUSING on that. S3&K was not MAINLY focused on that. It was a nice little part to it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1. How did I disregard your post? I was just responding to it. Problem?

Disregarding it? I said you missed the point of what I was saying. That's the problem, son.

2. I haven't played 06 yet, so I have no say. However, I've heard it sucks. I'll take it and the gameplay I've seen to heart.

Yeah, it sucks, mainly because it was unfinished, but it's open to debate whether even finishing it would make it any better.

3. I was referring to the Sonic RPG games, Chronicles, which also showed some exploring.

No one else here was even considering, hinting, implying, or overall saying anything about it for you to bring it up as an example of where Sonic fails in exploration. That game is one of the last things to come to anyone's mind on how Sonic should explore.

And even then, how about you give us the name of the game as opposed to saying "RPG" which could mean anything in that genre and expect us to know what you're talking about? We can't read minds.

4. I was actually considering mentioning that in my post, but I left it out. Sonic 3&K is a great example of how exploring can be handled, it can be a small side element for the game, however mind you, it should NOT be the main aspect, which is what Hyper was talking about. A game FOCUSING on that. S3&K was not MAINLY focused on that. It was a nice little part to it.

HyperGogeta was referring to a Sandbox game where you have complete freedom to go wherever you want within a large open environment.

There has not been any Sonic game like that to make a full comparison, mainly because the formula we have right now isn't well adapted to that kind of thing should players want to bolt from one end to the other. And it would take a lot of time and research to make one that could possibly work in the way he's describing.

Edited June 25, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Badnik Zero]

No to sandbox. Yes to open levels like Mario 64, Sunshine and Banjo-Kazooie. Where the fields are square instead of a line. You just need to tailor Sonic's controls for navigation instead of rocketing forward. The Adventure controls do that pretty well without sacrificing speed. Sonic could benefit from this if the environment was highly interactive.

[Gaming Misfit]

Disregarding it? I said you missed the point of what I was saying. That's the problem, son.

Yeah, it sucks, mainly because it was unfinished, but it's open to debate whether even finishing it would make it any better.

No one else here was even considering, hinting, implying, or overall saying anything about it for you to bring it up as an example of where Sonic fails in exploration. That game is one of the last things to come to anyone's mind on how Sonic should explore.

And even then, how about you give us the name of the game as opposed to saying "RPG" which could mean anything in that genre and expect us to know what you're talking about? We can't read minds.

HyperGogeta was referring to a Sandbox game where you have complete freedom to go wherever you want within a large open environment.

There has not been any Sonic game like that to make a full comparison, mainly because the formula we have right now isn't well adapted to that kind of thing should players want to bolt from one end to the other. And it would take a lot of time and research to make one that could possibly work in the way he's describing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1. 'Kay. Still don't see how, but okay.

Edited June 25, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Gaming Misfit]

Here's how. My first post said how saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" was bullshit, and before quoting you I was talking about how making such a game would be a problem. You completely argued against me as if I was supporting the idea of the game as if I was saying it was a good idea.

Considering how I just said Sonic Chronicles is one of the last games to come to most fans minds when you say something as vague as "RPG" compared to the dozens of other non-Sonic RPGs out there, you can easily see how that's not going to hit anyone. Like I said, we can't read minds. We're more likely to think "Final Fantasy" than "Sonic Chronicles" if all you say is "RPG". So no, we're not going to get it if we're told that way.

And I just told you that Hyper mentioned RPGs, Kingdom Hearts specifically, to detail how open the levels are compared to Sonic's more constrained levels in 3D. It doesn't help you any further that he added Spider-man Web of Shadows as another example to show that RPGs as a genre was not what he was talking about. Now unless he comes in to correct me on that, I'll continue to stand by that.

And I also told you that what he was really talking about was a SANDBOX game which is a different gameplay style to an RPG and only further show that missed the point as to what Hyper really meant.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

He mentioned an RPG along with a Sandbox game, but considering how open environment game is synonymous with Sandbox game (if you didn't know that at first, now you do) it shouldn't be too hard to piece together what he meant. That and the other comments from other members who immediately added to the subject of a sandbox game. That doesn't neglect my point that he probably included it as an example to how open the worlds you explore are compared to a number Sonic's near-racetrack looking levels that people think he had since Unleashed. I have no idea why he included it myself, but I can see the distinction he was trying to make.

Didn't you also know what he meant despite him using an RPG as an example? It seemed that way in your first post.

[Gaming Misfit]

He mentioned an RPG along with a Sandbox game, but considering how open environment game is synonymous with Sandbox game (if you didn't know that at first, now you do) it shouldn't be too hard to piece together what he meant. That and the other comments from other members who immediately added to the subject of a sandbox game. That doesn't neglect my point that he probably included it as an example to how open the worlds you explore are compared to a number Sonic's near-racetrack looking levels that people think he had since Unleashed. I have no idea why he included it myself, but I can see the distinction he was trying to make.

Didn't you also know what he meant despite him using an RPG as an example? It seemed that way in your first post.

I was trying to focus on the fact that I thought exploring should not be a key element in Sonic games, so I didn't tap that much. I don't see why Hyper added that as an example is the point.

[Phos]

Open environments typically seem to work best when there's some kind of relavence between the world and the objectives. Put that into a platformer, and inthink that might translate into a lot of busy work.