First Gameplay hack(s) of the demo.

[Treacher]

Hallelujah, amen.

Seconding. They deserve it, sort of, but there are certain aspects that should've been touched and improved upon in later entries, which sadly few if any really succeeded in doing. Hence the pedestal.

[Old dead account]

Even before I read all of Christian Johnson's mindless SA2 worship drivel, I'd say the Adventure games are much more overrated than the classics, regardless of the unrealistic pedestal the classics are already placed on.

[thatguyfrom03]

Semi agree. Its not the games themselves that are overrated. I mean collectively, they are the pinnacle of the franchise. It's just you've got these elitist guys that just read the Sonic Physics guide and think they're Jesus Christ. For some reason they think that the Sonic games that don't follow the Genesis games religiously have no value. It's never "I didn't enjoy Sonic Rush. Here's why." It's "It's pure garbage. Sonic was NEVER all about speed. Plus those physics are nothing like S3&K!"

Personally, the esteemed Sonic 2 is at the bottom of the list of good Sonic games. I'd rather play Rush or Colors.

EDIT: And the elevation of SA2 is almost based on pure nostalgia for the latter generation of fans. I'm almost positive. Especially those that say Unleashed is linear, all flash and no substance gameplay, and say that they should go back to Sonic/Shadow style stages. Oh laaawwwd that always kills me.

Edited July 4, 2011 by thatguyfrom03

[Voyant]

I think many of us...the saner part of the fanbase that is...want to move on, but we need more good games until we can 100% accept it...just 1 good main title isn't good enough in my eyes. See...most of all the good ideas Sonic Team has come up with has always been accompanied by some sort of major failure. That's why you have Hardcore Adventure Fans and Classic fans going up in arms talking about how something can't work..."I got my NOSTALGIA GLASSES ON SON! THAT GAMEPLAY STYLE WAS IN A SHIT GAME SO ITS SHIT!"

When Colors was shown people went up in arms again....but...this time....nothing showed that was offensive and most of us was just waiting for that stupid catch.....but in never happened...

Colors impressed so many fans, gamers, and press, but it wasn't good enough...hell some press didn't want to rate Colors higher because they didn't think SEGA deserved it! Eventually everyone treated it as a fluke and it got put in the "they just got lucky" category and people have completely forgot the game exited treating it like it a handheld game.

They simply need to get out of this "Nostalgia" phase and move on... their thinking pattern needs to continue like that of Colors. Use and improve what works, stop trying to appeal to a fanbase that going to complain anyway, get creative, and come up with your own stuff. Fix your mistakes with your accomplishments and show some talent...that way people aren't bombarding you with crap 24/7 talking about how everything needs to play like Adventure...or The Classics.

Looking back a little is fine, but regressing is not improving...its a cop out, a quick fix. It will only be a matter of time before the other side of the fanbase gets vocal and now the Classics fans are going to say.."We are boooored now we want something new!". I think Iz understands that now and that's why he just wants to do his own thing now after Generations like he has announced and carry the Modern Sonic gameplay to a whole new level. Iz may have a bit of an ego...but at least he cares a little...and has some balls.

With some details revealed though it seems that Sonic Team hasn't taken it completely safe as I thought though....

Edited July 4, 2011 by Voyant

[Scar]

First time i'm liking a dash attack because that's exactly what it is, a dash attack. Doesn't look overpowered or spammable at all and probably would function to get an extra boost when platforming or to hit an enemy in front of you instead of just simply pressing button twice. This would give the player an actual choice of decision wether and when to use it or not

Edit: WOw @ the rolling video

Sonicteam would have to feel ashamed if the ending product didn't fix it

(ZOMG sonicteam is being attacked I gotta defend them with mai layf)

It is easy to fix the problem; just raise the rolling speed-cap (well, at least that's what Polygon Jim did), but the problem is the months of BETA testing you'd need to conduct so that one little, teeny-weeny change doesn't horrifcally break the rest of the stages' level design.

Its much more complicated than simply changing a value and then running with it.

Unless of course they've already resolved/in the process of resolving the issue.

EDIT:

I see a lot of comments on various videos and threads on non-sonic forums and gaming communities, which all say that Sonic Team is living in the past, and need to do something new. Yet in the same post they somehow also manage to say "Sonic Team need to go back to their roots", which is completely contradictory.

You know, I don't think Sonic Team like constantly revisiting the classics, I'm pretty sure they know they were great games. The likelihood is, that the whole (or at least most of the) team were probably a fan of the classic games.

They probably want to continue to do their own thing and make Sonic the Hedgehog their own. Yet they seem to face one huge obstacle. The gaming industry (not just the fans, the whole goddamn gaming industry). For some reason, Sonic Team get a lot of flak regardless of what they do. People want to see them do something new, but are simultaneously resistive to any kind of change beyond the classic games.

Its something we are going to have to let go.

Sonic games are going to be good, when they are well designed and fun to play through and through, no compromises. Sonic games don't need to have alternate routes, wide open level design and so on, to be good games. They just need to be well designed to be good.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Scar

[sonfan1984]

Colors impressed so many fans, gamers, and press, but it wasn't good enough...hell some press didn't want to rate Colors higher because they didn't think SEGA deserved it! Eventually everyone treated it as a fluke and it got put in the "they just got lucky" category and people have completely forgot the game exited treating it like it a handheld game.

Edited July 4, 2011 by sonfan1984

[pppp]

I would easily say that Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Sonic CD are not only my favorite Sonic games, but rank high on my list of favorite video games in general.

I thought your favorite Sonic game was Colors:

"Better than the classics." that's what you said.

Don't get me wrong,i'll take the classics and cd over colors anyday but what happened since your colors review?

[SuperClassic]

I thought your favorite Sonic game was Colors:

"Better than the classics." that's what you said.

Don't get me wrong,i'll take the classics and cd over colors anyday but what happened since your colors review?

Dissident's inconsistency isn't really anything new.(Every human being is either too negative or too positive with their first thoughts) This sort of reminds me why I try not to voice my opinion on a game as a whole right after playing it for the first time.(Or atleast, go as far as to write my own script or a couple paragraphs about it)

Edited July 4, 2011 by Schismatist

[Sami]

Yeah, I'm inconsistent. In my defense though, it's been over half a year since that review, and I still love Colors more than most other Sonic games. I'd probably rank it between Sonic CD and Sonic Rush.

Edit: Meh, while I'm at it, I might as well right the list of games from most to least favorite.

S3&K = Sonic CD > Sonic Colors > Sonic Rush > Sonic 2 > Sonic 1 > Sonic Unleashed HD

Edited July 4, 2011 by Dissident

[pppp]

As for the people not moving on from the classics,i 100% agree.I'll quote my other posts about this:

I hope after Generations the fans will allow Sonic Team to leave the classic gameplay behind and move on to the future.

As the end of "Meet the Robinsons" says: "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths."

I personally think the only way Sonic Team can ever make something equal or better than the classics is to try to perfect their current formula,like the Old Sonic Team perfected theirs throughout Sonic 1-3.It would be equal/better than the classics,but for different reasons.Allow me to show a perfect example:

Zelda Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game not because it emulated the "massively open to exploration" formula of the original Zelda on the NES perfectly,but because it told an epic story,it had a fun and inventive combat system, and had a huge replay value.

I seriously think this is the only way Sonic can become amazing again.Classic gameplay is just not the New Sonic Team's thing. They will never truly nail it,no matter how much they try.

[Sean]

I clicked on the gameplay hacks topic and had to back out to make sure I was in the right one.

Back on topic. Again.

[Unknownlight]

Okay, anyway...

Earlier on in the thread people were saying how glad they were that the homing attack was added in SA, because it'd be impossible to hit enemies otherwise in 3D. I disagree, if the gameplay and controls were made with jumping on enemies without a homing attack in mind, I'm sure the developers would figure something out.

In fact, the fangame SRB2 already proved it possible. Ten years ago.

[Scar]

Okay, anyway...

Earlier on in the thread people were saying how glad they were that the homing attack was added in SA, because it'd be impossible to hit enemies otherwise in 3D. I disagree, if the gameplay and controls were made with jumping on enemies without a homing attack in mind, I'm sure the developers would figure something out.

In fact, the fangame SRB2 already proved it possible. Ten years ago.

I'm sorry, but I played that game and it controls like shit.

The Badnik Bounce can also be done in Unleashed and Adventure, but its so awkward and way too precise. See Unleashed and even Adventure move much faster than SRB2, and when you're going full pelt in a 3D environment, its possible, but a nuisance to try and Badnik Bounce. In order to preserve the fluidity of the game, and not make hitting enemies a pain in the fucking ass, the homing attack is just fine.

Also, remind me why we're even talking about this?

[Unknownlight]

I'm sorry, but I played that game and it controls like shit.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The controls are...strange, but once you get used to them it plays perfectly fine.

Also, remind me why we're even talking about this?

No reason. Something to talk about. I personally much prefer having a homing attack, but I think it'd be possible to have a Classic-styled 3D game if you tried.

[Diogenes]

Earlier on in the thread people were saying how glad they were that the homing attack was added in SA, because it'd be impossible to hit enemies otherwise in 3D.

No one says it's literally impossible, just unreasonably difficult. Adding another dimension makes it more difficult, adding depth, specifically, makes it more difficult, and combined with Sonic's high-speed gameplay it's even more difficult. There's a reason even Mario cuts down on enemy bouncing in his 3D games.

In fact, the fangame SRB2 already proved it possible. Ten years ago.

Posting some challenge video to prove 3D bouncing is reasonable makes about as much sense as pointing to

as an example of ordinary gameplay.

Personally I think the best solution is to change how Sonic acts after hitting something with the HA; instead of bouncing straight up (killing your speed and making HA-chains into N-shaped zigzags), have him bounce forwards. It'd better approximate a non-HA bounce and it keeps Sonic moving.

[Unknownlight]

Posting some challenge video to prove 3D bouncing is reasonable makes about as much sense as pointing to

as an example of ordinary gameplay.

True enough. But what else could I have posted? "Hey guys. Y'know, there's a fangame called SRB2 where you can quite easily bounce on an enemy without a homing attack, and you can even bounce on a few enemies without touching the ground...oh wait, you say you've never heard of SRB2? Well, just trust me on this, 'kay?"

Without the video, my post would be absolutely meaningless to anyone who's never played SRB2. And it's not like there's any other Youtube videos which showcase the relative ease of bouncing in that game other than the challenge videos.

Anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that Sonic shouldn't have a homing attack, I was just responding to earlier people in the thread who were talking about if a classic-styled 3D game could work. I believe it could, if effort was put into it.

(If the 3D Sonic games started with no homing attack, and it was added in a later game, imagine the outraged fans screaming at Sega and complaining how Sonic games are now "Press A to win!" People still act like that, actually.)

Edited July 4, 2011 by Unknownlight

[Sami]

True enough. But what else could I have posted? "Hey guys. Y'know, there's a fangame called SRB2 where you can quite easily bounce on an enemy without a homing attack, and you can even bounce on a few enemies without touching the ground...oh wait, you say you've never heard of SRB2? Well, just trust me on this, 'kay?"

Without the video, my post would be absolutely meaningless to anyone who's never played SRB2. And it's not like there's any other Youtube videos which showcase the relative ease of bouncing in that game other than the challenge videos.

Anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that Sonic shouldn't have a homing attack, I was just responding to earlier people in the thread who were talking about if a classic-styled 3D game could work. I believe it could, if effort was put into it.

(If the 3D Sonic games started with no homing attack, and it was added in a later game, imagine the outraged fans screaming at Sega and complaining how Sonic games are now "Press A to win!" People still act like that, actually.)

[Unknownlight]

A lot of people have heard of SRB2. It just has dreadful controls and confusing level design. That's why nobody talks about it.

[Sean]

Again, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the topic. Classics vs. moderns? SRB2 and homing attack? Sorry, but I'm not really seeing how any of this is relevant to Sonic Generations hacking. And if they are, then nobody seems to be trying to connect them. Not every fan activity such as hacking classic into modern or making a 3D rendition of Mushroom Hill has to initiate a philosophical Sonic discussion about the psyche of the fanbase or the goals of Sega and the people who support/criticize them or their programming.

If you really are pressed for something to talk about concerning the hacks, then don't post here and redirect whatever current conversations elsewhere. In fact, I'll probably just delete irrelevant posts from now on. I know this isn't Retro, a more research-centric community, but all of these threads of discussion just don't belong here and I'd much rather see this topic used for its purpose: to talk about videos of people messing around with the game's coding, which I find interesting and would not want to see dwarfed by unrelated chatter.