Jump to content
Chaos Warp

How fast does sonic need to run in-game?

Recommended Posts

Regardless, it's the same action, but more effective in what it does. Doesn't that mean it's an additional button to get the best of you - which you were simply going to get anyway if the button, along with it functionality, simply didn't exist or its functionality was already in the normal movement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting it on a button helps control it. I find analog stick magnitude kind of fiddly; it's hard to get an accurate direction with a partial tilt. It's easier to go all-in and use the outer edge to help. But with a character like Sonic that might be a little too much for some cases. So you sort of "toggle" the higher speeds by holding the run button. That is what the functionality is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are other solutions, like associating the higher speeds with the player's behaviours within the game instead of direct commands, that don't split the gameplay in two and don't give you new main buttons. I'm positive any player would use this button whenever possible, which is a chore in itself. If you gave NFS an infinite NOS bar or Mario Kart an unexhaustible golden mushroom... can you see that not becoming anyone's primal behaviour? Or do you think people are rational and don't exploit the game's rules whenever they can?

 

But if you're so confident about this idea, at least consider the mushroom instead of the NOS.

Edited by Palas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like we're overcomplicating this whole thing. It's just a freaking acceleration button.

Good point (and I actually like the boost) and as for what speed sonic should go at, I would say his sonic unleashed/generations normal running speed would be a good idea and make sonic's boost the spin dash but you have the choice of doing a charge spin dash which will move you faster than a boost or a roll which is easier to control and gradually increases your speed.

 

Also dude, I love your sig.

Edited by megadude001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A run button doesn't split the gameplay into two. And while people would probably use it a lot, I don't expect them to use it constantly, even when it's hurting them, unless they're incurably stupid.

 

You have played Mario games, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you say the normal acceleration would be used for precise platforming ~or something~, there is no other impression I can get other than that of splitting the gameplay. Mario, while very similar to Sonic in a bunch of aspects, is different in the foundation. And Mario only has to use speed every now and again, while Sonic does it constantly - because that's how you determine how far you can go with your attacks and also how effectively you'll use the level design.

 

Mario's transition between "rooms" is typically less fluid than in Sonic, being closer to the puzzle. Speed - or, rather, extension of movement - is a resource to be used episodically; in Sonic, it's something to be used essentially. That's why a run button is so much easier to get addicted to and, therefore, why it will either split the approach to all challenges or make null the normal one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you say the normal acceleration would be used for precise platforming ~or something~, there is no other impression I can get other than that of splitting the gameplay.

The impression you should be getting is that you ease off the run button when you feel you need more precise control rather than a few more units of speed. Whether that's for platforming, avoiding obstacles, searching around an area, whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The impression you should be getting is that you ease off the run button when you feel you need more precise control rather than a few more units of speed. Whether that's for platforming, avoiding obstacles, searching around an area, whatever.

Wouldn't that mean that we will be holding the button down to go fast most of the time and slow down when we want to platform, avoid stuff, search around an area or whatever?

If we are going to be holding it down mostly, then why not a "Slow Down" button instead? So we can go "Alright, sure this is Sonic and speed and all but shit just got real, let's chill".

Like a "walk" button in a Tomb Raider. So that's less holding down but still achieving what you guys want. Control.

Edited by sayi50

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see. Well, while I don't like the idea of enhancing what you already have for operational reasons (control) rather than bringing different, but completely integrated stuff to the table... I might go with it.

 

I still prefer giving the prerrogative of determining how fast you can go to other stuff, like rings, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't that mean that we will be holding the button down to go fast most of the time and slow down when we want to platform, avoid stuff, search around an area or whatever?

If we are going to be holding it down mostly, then why not a "Slow Down" button instead? So we can go "Alright, sure this is Sonic and speed and all but shit just got real, let's chill".

Like a "walk" button in a Tomb Raider. So that's less holding down but still achieving what you guys want. Control.

I've thought about this, but it's kind of conceptually counterintuitive. Sonic is a game where you want to go fast; who wants to consciously activate an ability that slows you down? A brake button I could maybe see, but a button you hold to keep yourself at a walk/jog seems too counter to the concept of Sonic.

Plus you've kind of got the reverse problem of having a button you're almost always pressing; you're now dedicating a button for something you're not going to use all that often, and is that really worth it?

 

I see. Well, while I don't like the idea of enhancing what you already have for operational reasons (control) rather than bringing different, but completely integrated stuff to the table... I might go with it.

Well I've also considered tying some secondary effects to the run button (and giving it an energy meter, if necessary). Like, Shadow's run button might also slow time with Chaos Control, or Blaze's gives her a fire aura that burns enemies/obstacles, or something. For Sonic I've been thinking about him having the ability to latch onto a wall so he can run along it even if there's no curve to get him from ground to wall (you'd still need to keep up your speed to stay on it, classic style); I think that could reasonably be tied to a run button.

I still prefer giving the prerrogative of determining how fast you can go to other stuff, like rings, though.

How, specifically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've also considered tying some secondary effects to the run button (and giving it an energy meter, if necessary). Like, Shadow's run button might also slow time with Chaos Control, or Blaze's gives her a fire aura that burns enemies/obstacles, or something. For Sonic I've been thinking about him having the ability to latch onto a wall so he can run along it even if there's no curve to get him from ground to wall (you'd still need to keep up your speed to stay on it, classic style); I think that could reasonably be tied to a run button.

 

I like it better now, honestly. There are new functionalities and different ones for different characters. I like that.

 

How, specifically?

 

 

In Sonic Advance 2, you reach the boost mode faster if you have more rings. Something around this could very well be implemented. I also wouldn't mind the boost if it didn't make you invincible and depleted your rings directly (instead of a ring energy bar). I like it when you tie an enhancement system and a life system together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with that, though, is that Rings are already used as a means of determining score and rankings on top of the conditional invincibility they offer. When you use them as fuel directly, you're literally burning away a big contribution towards your S rank in addition to also literally boosting yourself to death, neither of which I can imagine being received particularly well.

 

If I were to suggest a compromise, I'd say the boost gauge should be variable in size depending on how many rings you have, and by consequence the length and effectiveness of the boost. You might not even have one at less than 10 rings, but as you collect more it evolves from a quick speed recovery gradually to an omnipotent speed-cap lock someplace higher up. Not only does it keep pretty much all of the existing purposes of rings completely intact, it if anything further encourages avoiding damage and hoarding rings on the move because of its added rewards to speedrunning purposes.

 

Not to mention it can give greater importance to alternate means of locomotion - yes, including slopes and spindashes if need be - until your boost gets up to Unleashed levels of ridiculousness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the mario comparison is really apt when Mario lost his run button as soon as he hit 3D and didn't have it again till he ended up back in 2D (Man those NSMB games are floaty), and to be honest, I don't recall there being much cause to ever let go of the run buttons in those games aside from the other functions attached to them.  When you had a fire flower, it was really a case of briefly releasing the button to throw one rather than pressing it wasn't it?  I also don't think you really need it when you have analog control just in general.  It's such a problem in Unleashed and the like because they made it a problem.  Press the stick all the way to the side and you barely turn, who does that help?  

 

Letting Sonic attach to walls seems like it could lead to design issues where it ends up being hard to make a real edge of the level, makes it hard to keep players from getting out of the level when they can just attach to any wall.  Not insurmountable, just something to keep in  mind when making more natural levels.  Dunno why, this idea just never really seemed that great to me.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I just Joined and this looks like the best place to start.

I have wanted to get this off my chest for some time but could not fined a good Sonic form.

Any way back to the first post if Sonic really ran at the speed of Sound in the game the game would probably be unplayable.

I saw a video on you tube

Game Theory: How Fast is Sonic the Hedgehog?

 

It said that if Sonic ran at the speed of Sound in the first sonic game the game would be over in under a minute. Although there is a lot wrong with the video they had a point. But then I realized something the timer is unmarked.

The 0:00 is not marked minutes and seconds, its just 0:00

So even though we see the 0: as Minutes and the :00 as seconds

To Sonic the 0: is only seconds and the :00 is well “Sonic seconds.”

Edited by Sonicstitch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the mario comparison is really apt when Mario lost his run button as soon as he hit 3D and didn't have it again till he ended up back in 2D (Man those NSMB games are floaty), and to be honest, I don't recall there being much cause to ever let go of the run buttons in those games aside from the other functions attached to them.  When you had a fire flower, it was really a case of briefly releasing the button to throw one rather than pressing it wasn't it? I also don't think you really need it when you have analog control just in general.

The Mario comparisons were less "we should explicitly copy Mario" and more "this is the most well-known example of what I'd like to do". I think analog control was enough for 3D Mario because he just doesn't go that fast. He's covering a far smaller range of speeds than Sonic does, and smaller even than he does in 2D Mario games counting the run button. And I think if they wanted him to have a full run rather than just a jog in the 3D games, a run button would be a good way to do it; I think he'd be kind of unwieldy if he always controlled like he did with the Rainbow Star in the Galaxy games.

As far as never needing to let go, I don't think that's true. I think games with run buttons rarely explicitly require you to let go of them (outside things like Mario throwing fireballs where there's a separate action bound to the same button), but it's still plenty useful to slow down sometimes. I just got done replaying Rayman Origins, and while I keep the run button down most of the time I'm playing it, I still appreciate being able to not run, when I need to jump on some small platforms or dodge enemies in tight quarters.

Letting Sonic attach to walls seems like it could lead to design issues where it ends up being hard to make a real edge of the level, makes it hard to keep players from getting out of the level when they can just attach to any wall.  Not insurmountable, just something to keep in  mind when making more natural levels.

Well, I'd have some walls that you couldn't run on. Make them visually distinct from the ones you can (rougher, maybe duller colored, compared to smoother and brighter). Make most walls run-on-able, and use the not-run-on-able walls to fence in the edges and where wallrunning would break the level too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If I were to suggest a compromise, I'd say the boost gauge should be variable in size depending on how many rings you have, and by consequence the length and effectiveness of the boost. You might not even have one at less than 10 rings, but as you collect more it evolves from a quick speed recovery gradually to an omnipotent speed-cap lock someplace higher up. Not only does it keep pretty much all of the existing purposes of rings completely intact, it if anything further encourages avoiding damage and hoarding rings on the move because of its added rewards to speedrunning purposes.

 

So... like Unleashed SD?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a good compromise would be to let the 'Run' button act as more of an 'Acceleration' button.

 

i.e., it doesn't let Sonic run faster than if he were not holding the button, but rather it lets him accelerate to top speed quicker, with his default acceleration being more gradual.

 

This way, Sonic still retains his natural speed at all times, but while not holding down the Run button his acceleration is relatively slow on flat land, allowing more precise control without having to tilt the analog stick constantly, and you can hold down the button to quickly get back up to speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fast enough to outrun Eggman. For once.

 

I mean really? That fat bugger is the real fastest thing alive. At least let him catch him ONCE!

 

 

 

Seriousness, Faster than Generations and colours, but slower than Unleashed. Fast enough to feel fast, slow enough to be playable, without suffering more cheap deaths than me playing Call of Duty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.