About status updates

[Remy]

If you need to vent or talk about your day, there's always the Express Your Emotions topic in the PD forum.

[Sami]

Also, I don't wish to be mean, but is there really any point of saying your going to leave, but still be around? That's like telling your parents that your moving to your own place, only to be living in a tent in the back garden.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Dissident

[Stacy]

Sigh its always the odd few people that spoil it for the rest.

I like status updates, I don't think I abused the system and to be honest I hope status updates aren't being used as a scapegoat for other problems.

People have said that ever since status updates the fourm has declined I disagree.

Lately their have been a lot of trollish and inmature newcomer posters, I don't know if this is because other Sonic fourms have closed or we have had a lot of full moons lately.

But I have been really frustrated by the surge of trollish and inmature posters over the past month or so not just Status updates but using the fourm as a whole as their kitty litter box.

Edited August 3, 2011 by BW199148

[Indigo Rush]

Hey guys, I'm back from the store, who wants some chili do-

...

What in the name of Don Fachio's beanless spicy jalapeño chili recipe happened?!

Okay, I admit that I've been aware of the drama that's been going on for a while now, but jeez. If Azukara hadn't phoned me and told me about the zaniness that went on, I wouldn't have been so concerned to go to this forum first (okay, maybe third) thing in the morning.

The correlation between massive blowup and length of time the SEGA Forums have been down is undeniable, but for goodness sake, not everyone here's been a dork about Sonic Generations.

Okay, so some of the levels seem too similar. The rolling is gimped. There's no version for the upcoming Wii U. The physics in the 3DS version manages to look worse than Sonic 4. But is it worth all the drama?

The other issue I noticed is that some of the newer members have trouble discerning the constructive criticism of an idea or rationalization and the bashing of a personal opinion. Beyond that, those who do feel like their opinion has been bashed should consider looking at how they stated it. It's the Internet, not the living room. Normal human interaction is gimped by lack of visual emphasis. This isn't news. Regardless, it feels like the relaxed but orderly atmosphere of the forums have been compromised because of this. I don't think the new members do this intentionally, (though if they do, they should sit in a corner with a cone-shaped hat reading "faker") but it brings to mind an analogy I came up with. No, it doesn't have to do with food.

The way I described the situation to Azu: SSMB is like a private institution. It's nothing like a military school where everyone's on constant lock-down, but there is still a necessity to maintain order. Things are maintained to an atmosphere where people can discuss ideas intellectually without fear of inappropriate backlash. It's not a constant state, but those who disrupt the rules usually get their act together.

SEGA Forums are like a massive public school with varying degrees of intellect, wisdom and tolerance. There are certainly those who know the ropes, we have had a few members flock over to SSMB in the past from the SEGA Forums and have made discussion all the more exciting, but a LOT of the others are inconsistent in their opinions, there's no respect for the order of things, and knowledge and wisdom of Internet discussion is either underdeveloped or stunted. It's not a good place for those who take discussion seriously, and it's not a good place for people to learn how to behave on the Internet, because a good role model is too rare to make a difference.

I understand the above analogy is a bit of a strawman, but I still stand by the general concept of things. I'm not saying, and never have said, that we shouldn't give them a chance. Behind each username is a human being with an individual and significant life, a unique personality and a mind full of varying experiences and differing views on the state of the world, and the Sonic series, as it applies to this corner of the Internet. I think the problem is that a lot of people aren't well learned on how to act.

With the one incident that seemed to set things off, I think Inferno stated it best:

I reported the member in question, but I never asked for bans or whatever, I was only reporting because that's what we as members are supposed to do am I right? Though I'll admit I did playfully respond to some of the statuses, maybe too playfully, only fanning the flames with more flames, though I never raged at them or whatever. I'm also sorry for once again screwing up and joining in the bunch that handled a situation the wrong way. Also, this may be the most immature thing I could say right now, but I feel like this one person just won their own little battle with the forums. This reminds me of a situation where a kid repeatedly messed with me in school, but only I got in trouble in the end because I retaliated, and the kid that messed with me got sympathy. Call me a child, call me an idiot, but that's just how I see it. They purposely went out of their way for like a day an a half to make people angry, and some of us finally started to retaliate. Not the smartest thing to do, but it's too late now. What happened happened, and we've gotta take our punishment. And as usual I'm in the group that caused this mess. Not saying we're in the right, as both sides were wrong, and we should've just ignored and hoped this all just blew away or whatever and this probably wouldn't have happened.

I may not see this situation the same as most others, but at the end of the day I'm not in charge here, and I've gotta accept the viewpoints of those above me.

So, apologies.

Again.

I'm not leaving SSMB by any means. But... I think I'll step back a bit.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Flyboy Fox]

I want you guys to stop apologising for having fun/being silly/goofing off in the status bar IF that really is all you're 'guilty' of. I do NOT want anyone thinking that there is no fun allowed on SSMB, and with the absence of a 'Fluff' forum on the mainboard, the status bar WAS a place where you could be silly and goofy and mildly spammy.

The ONLY reason it got taken down was because of mean-spirited gossipy trollish behaviour which consistently broke rules both new and old and killed the fun free and easy vibe of the feature by becoming a bitch bar rather than a status bar.

I trust that every member here is smart enough to know the difference and to know whether or not you're guilty of the latter. My fear is that you guys will start to feel that we have an absolute no tolerance policy for anything less than 100% serious, and that is simply not true at all. It's about balance, respect, and knowing what's appropriate behaviour without feeling that you can't express yourselves.

And in the end, please do remember that if you are stressed about something that is happening on the forums, you can always PM me or another mod. It's what we're here for. When you try to handle it yourselves, even if your intentions are good, you only make the problem larger by implicating yourself and giving us more work because there's more posts for us to have to evaluate and act on.

Finally, I respect your decisions to step back if you need to, but please don't give up on this place. It's seen rough times before, and it's got through them and thrived. Why? Because SSMB has an AWESOME userbase. Can't do it without you guys...

[Indigo Rush]

I completely forgot there was Fluff.

I miss Fluff.

Can we bring Fluffy back?

[Flyboy Fox]

Fluff was a bad thing for the forum because it ushered in a bad era that was almost as negative for SSMB as this whole thing. Members were pretty much posting ONLY in the Fluff forum because it required little to no effort rather than the actual discussion effort expected everywhere else on the board. So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a return of Fluff. The status bar, I think, was a fair compromise. It got abused and is temporarily suspended, but I have faith that it's not the end for having an outlet for fun and silliness on our great forum without compromising SSMB's intelligence and discussion merit (:

[Indigo Rush]

Okay Fyfloy Box. :3

Don't want this to be the Fluffy Stadium, after all.

[Blue Blood]

The correlation between massive blowup and length of time the SEGA Forums have been down is undeniable, but for goodness sake, not everyone here's been a dork about Sonic Generations.

The other issue I noticed is that some of the newer members have trouble discerning the constructive criticism of an idea or rationalization and the bashing of a personal opinion. Beyond that, those who do feel like their opinion has been bashed should consider looking at how they stated it. It's the Internet, not the living room. Normal human interaction is gimped by lack of visual emphasis. This isn't news. Regardless, it feels like the relaxed but orderly atmosphere of the forums have been compromised because of this. I don't think the new members do this intentionally, (though if they do, they should sit in a corner with a cone-shaped hat reading "faker") but it brings to mind an analogy I came up with. No, it doesn't have to do with food.

*Foodless analogy*

You've hit the nail on the head there perfectly Indigo, apart from that fact that it's not just discussions about Generations or Sonic in general (though that is where a good majority of it is).

Finally, I respect your decisions to step back if you need to, but please don't give up on this place. It's seen rough times before, and it's got through them and thrived. Why? Because SSMB has an AWESOME userbase. Can't do it without you guys...

SSMB does have an awesome userbase, usually. I think though that we need a clamp down on following rules and good behaviour. That way, the people who are causing any upset will either get a better idea of how to fit in, or up and leave if they decide that maintaining a mature, intellectual but lighthearted and fun atmosphere isn't worth it. (FTR, it's so worth it.)

[Cola]

Hey, just for clarification...

I'm not exactly leaving. I'm just taking a step back from my normal activity, and retreating to the safe cover of the Chit-Chat forums. I'm here for this place, I love it, it's one of my favorite places on the internet, and I want to do everything in my power to restore the SSMB to it's former glory!

As we make the first steps towards recovery, I think that a nice thing to do would be starting to revert the forums back to the old layout slowly as we fix the problems around here. (Ex. Moving the message bar thing from the left of the page to the right.)

Small nitpicks, yes, but it might, well, calm a bit of the craziness in the last few days, as some of that was caused by the new layout.

Another thing to do would be making the rules much clearer to new members, maybe a mandatory video of the rules? Video, because I think it's a bit better and more fun than a wall of text, and the SSMB is fun, correct?

Anyway, that's a bit more of my opinion, hope you took the time to read it. (Also, it's me, Cola. :3)

[Stacy]

Fluff was a bad thing for the forum because it ushered in a bad era that was almost as negative for SSMB as this whole thing. Members were pretty much posting ONLY in the Fluff forum because it required little to no effort rather than the actual discussion effort expected everywhere else on the board. So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a return of Fluff. The status bar, I think, was a fair compromise. It got abused and is temporarily suspended, but I have faith that it's not the end for having an outlet for fun and silliness on our great forum without compromising SSMB's intelligence and discussion merit (:

I remember the fluff fourm does that make me a semi old poster?!

[Blue Wisp]

Eh. Don't take me wrong. I get sad for what happened yesterday, because what happened yesterday with all the members going amock on the status updates makes me think that we're not giving the Sonic Fandom a good look to outsiders.

[Detective Shadzter]

Another thing to do would be making the rules much clearer to new members, maybe a mandatory video of the rules? Video, because I think it's a bit better and more fun than a wall of text, and the SSMB is fun, correct?

Anyway, that's a bit more of my opinion, hope you took the time to read it. (Also, it's me, Cola. :3)

I seem to recall Hogfather making a YouTube video about the SSMB a few years or so back, and I think that was about the rules. I can't seem to find it now though. It was a great video.

[Tornado]

I don't think anyone's mentioned a mean tone at all. It's immaturity and lack of intelligence.

I think it has. People have been sniping at each other; members, even long times ones, have been out for blood; and generally the atmosphere around here has been one of vitriol. I don't know if it is just because several of the older members are starting to snap under the pressure recently (because this is something I've only really noticed in the past month or so, long after the Sega forums went down), but I have noticed it. And this is from someone who has generally stayed the hell away from the Sonic section of the site ever since the Sega forums went down.

[YoshiUnity]

From what I've seen, the mods have mostly been talking about flaming, people talking about banned users, etc. in the status updates and not our usual stupid, uncontrollable randomness. In fact, once Flyboy said she loved our usual random updates. XP But meh, if a lot of people here see it as a problem then I suppose we shouldn't do it when the status comes back...as much. Really, who can resist acting stupid with the purpose of entertaining others just occasionally? XD

(I do admit that I probably made random, stupid updates just a LITTLE too much though ._.)

Actually I wasn't talking about the status bar with that line. I definitely understand that there are no 'NO FUN ALLOWED' robots here. I was talking about a few moments on topics to where I did kid around, but it only encourage the discussion on the topic to turn to the wrong direction.

Like, I said. I will always be the goofball that I love to be, but there are moments when it's time to cool it. Even though I well aware of this, I do have to remind myself sometimes. I mean, its not really bothering me or anyone else, but I just wanted to make that clear. Although I probably could have worded it a little better in that post. That's what I get for typing something like that 3:30 in the morning. :V

Edited August 3, 2011 by The Gentlemen YoshiUnity

[Dreadknux]

The only thing about this that I dont understand is why are people all leaving/abandoning the problem when wouldn't it make more sense to lead by example and do all in your power to try and fix what you don't like by following the rules, reporting, and making sure to make the discussions you want to see?

I am not saying that anyone isn't justified in their reasons to leave but if everyone who feels this strongly about SSMB not feeling how it used to is moving on/waiting for it all to blow over then how is that properly going to help SSMB go back to the way it was/change to something better?

Just food for thought I guess. Sad to see people go in any case!

This, basically. The thing we all need to do now, as a community, is stay strong and stick together. And if you really don't want to see this place go under, then your input is perhaps more important than ours. Particularly in actually informing us that you guys have an issue with something - I know that we haven't exactly had much of a debate about this in, say, the Member Feedback forum. You know, the place where members are encouraged to... feed back on areas that concern them.

Still, it is an area I have admittedly neglected, and that's wrong (I blame work, but hollow excuses, right?). We're going to look at setting the Sonic forums right. To do that, it has to be a controlled environment that the mods can go into and participate in topics/do their work without feeling overwhelmed. I think, with a separate forum for each new Sonic game, that things are overwhelming the mods at the moment. Especially since some are away on holidays and the rest are covering for them.

Basically, the Sonic forums need a total re-organisation. As does the MB in general, really - this topic and the skin change are about the only topics of note in this Announcements forum where anyone's bothered to participate. I think this sort of feedback that we're getting now - in terms of actual lists of things that irritate you as long-term, valuable members of this forum - is very useful. Over-use of memes, status spamming, childish Sonamy debate, reckless bashing of others' opinions... by all means guys, please keep posting things that you see are problems with the Sonic forums. I will take them all on board.

[TheGerkuman]

I dunno if this is the sort of input you need Dread buut....

The main site itself is looking kinda haggard. Not in how it looks, but because a lot of the content in it hasn't been update in yonks. I know everyone's busy, but I think it needed to be pointed out.

[Blue Blood]

Didn't you do a similar kind of restructuring a few years ago, because you and other moderators felt disconnected from the board? All Sonic discussion was consolidated into one section, with nothing like a marketplace of upcoming games section? Not sure I liked that. It kind of ruined discussion because everything became too cluttered. But the things are now, I can definitely understand how it's overwhelming.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I seem to recall Hogfather making a YouTube video about the SSMB a few years or so back, and I think that was about the rules. I can't seem to find it now though. It was a great video.

Oh those. I still have them... somewhere, I set a load of those videos to private a long time ago after I started making more videos about actual content... looking back they were all quite dreadful.

I'll make the video public for a little while... but remember this was for the 2006 rule scheme... also nobody had a HD camera so we had to make videos with webcams... which is why they look like shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0NiX2srZ1g"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Z0NiX2srZ1g

[Dreadknux]

Didn't you do a similar kind of restructuring a few years ago, because you and other moderators felt disconnected from the board? All Sonic discussion was consolidated into one section, with nothing like a marketplace of upcoming games section? Not sure I liked that. It kind of ruined discussion because everything became too cluttered. But the things are now, I can definitely understand how it's overwhelming.

Oh, the Marketplace and Upcoming Games will remain. I simply mean that, having sub forums for each and every game within the Upcoming Games section is a little bit too much ground to cover. That and when a game is finally released you're left with a dead forum to carry around. I know that I've not really bothered to look much beyond the Upcoming Games forum.

I dunno if this is the sort of input you need Dread buut....

The main site itself is looking kinda haggard. Not in how it looks, but because a lot of the content in it hasn't been update in yonks. I know everyone's busy, but I think it needed to be pointed out.

Just focusing on SSMB right now, but I'm aware a lot of stuff is still missing from TSS itself. I'm basically plate-spinning at the moment -- TSS is just about spinning okay, but I've left SSMB alone for a bit too long so I'm here to spin the plates here with Bmn and Chris a little more. A lot of the site's visitors come from the forum too - look after the forum, you're looking after the site.

[Noir]

Just one thing that may or may not be known already but I'd like to point out anyway: As of right now the link to the rules is a very tiny bit of gray text all the way down at the very bottom of the page. I think making that a little more visible would be a great idea when the time comes around to switch up the layout.

[Chris]

Hey guys! So, we're turning the status updates back on with a few changes; but why so soon? Well, this new version of Invision Board has a few new bells and whistles which will allow us to more accurately rid of the chaff that abuse the status updates without having any other users caught in the crossfire (which unfortunately happened recently -- sorry guys!).

But let's cut to the chase. This is a feature we do not want to outright disable, but rather we want to be able to moderate it. Here's how it'll be done, at least for now. As always, this is subject to change as this is rather new:

- Flaming, spamming, and rudeness to other members will not be tolerated;

- No inappropiate imagery, etc;

- Do not complain in the status updates about any staff actions (namely strikes and locking topics, but many more apply);

These rules, of course, do not limit you to enjoying the system. Feel free to make the silly statuses you may have made before or even carry on conversions via the comments. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to shoot them my way and I'll answer them the best I can.

If you find you cannot access the status update feature then chances are you have had it disabled for abuse (if you're unsure and think it's a bug, ask! Bugs happen). There have been less than ten people disabled from it's use as of now.

Have fun!

[Nepenthe]

So you can disable individuals from using it now? Oh, happy day! Glad to see you have a bit more control over it now. That works out better for everyone.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

If we're talking about things that really irritate us:

It drives me nuts when a site and that site's forum are treated as separate entities. People - members and staff alike - seem to treat the SSMB and TSS as separate entities. Hell look what you just made me type - they don't even look related at first glance.

That needs to be sorted, because if the SSMB is a separate entity after all it might as well have a different name. I'm aware you have some plans to integrate the forum into the site which should help a lot with this but long-term maybe something else is required.

Past this point is where it gets entirely hypothetical and me throwing stuff around for the admins in particular to chew on.

Amusingly something like this has happened around Sonic HQ of all places recently - well if you count a four year era as recent - for reasons that have nothing to do with this predicament: all I need to say is "Sonic HQ had its omega31 incident" and Dread will immediately understand and sorry for bringing that bullshit up. (The rest of you? You're better off not knowing. In fact I'm lucky if I don't get permabanned for even mentioning it. ;P) It's got them questioning the need for a forum at all. That's that though, and this is this.

However: in the conversations this came up. You may want to investigate this, as it seems to completely blur the line between old-skool site and old-skool forum without becoming a Facebook clone. Unfortunately I don't have any firsthand experience with the tech so I can't comment in detail, but it sounds to me like exactly what you were looking for a while back. I still remember the more ambitious renovation projects.

The other issue to consider is that no place stays the same forever, and Dread again would understand this better than anyone here. I'm not sure it's wise to go backwards to the good old days, but to incorporate what's happened, who people are now and what's been learned, and make some good new days instead.

[Noir]

So out of curiosity and at the risk of maybe making it seem like bringing the status bar back is such a great idea, what exactly has changed to make them easier to control? They still display for only a few minutes at best, and members can still delete comments and statuses entirely. If those were the problems before and they're still here, what's really changed?