Is Shadow The Hedgehog canon?

[Kuzu]

But it's all about Shadow. You never play as Sonic. I guess the subtitle was supposed to fix that issue.

[Badnik Mechanic]

But it's all about Shadow. You never play as Sonic.

So what? Sonic Adventure 2 is arguably all about shadow, yet nobody complains about that one.

It continues and arguably closes the adventure plot line and features just about every major plot device that Adventure 2 had. Also don't forget, when Sonic Adventure 2 was in production, it looked completely different before public demos started to appear and.... fans complained about it, mainly a lack of characters.

So it got changed, mainly, added more focus on Sonic and a greater selection of characters.

The whole plot of Sonic Adventure 2 is that theres this guy who looks like Sonic running around commiting crimes and doing bad stuff. For just about every encounter for the first 3 quarters of the game, the idea behind Shadow is that he's supposed to be in effect a Sonic type character, all be it his moodly dark counterpart. Sonic Adventure 2 sets up the idea that Shadow might actually be the original and that Sonic is a copy, it's only until the end of that game that we know Sonic isn't a clone or anything like that.

Not to mention, look at the plot of the game, Shadow is the one with the power in that game, Eggman might revive him, but shadow is pulling the strings, he manages to manipulate Eggman to Ark, he's the one that actually convinces Eggman to help him try and carry out his revenge on the world for what they did to him and his best friend (Maria). Shadow wants to go to ark, he knows that it's weapon systems will destroy those who tried to hurt him and who took Maria from him.

Whats Sonics goal? To stop Eggman... but what they and Eggman don't realise is that Shadow is the one who is manipulating him.

Don't believe me?

When Eggman revives shadow, what does shadow say? He'll grant Eggman a wish... on one condition... "Bring me more chaos emeralds" and where? "On the central control room... of the Space Colony Ark" now... how does Eggman react? He goes and steals the master emerald...

This sets of the chain of events for the story as a whole as well as Shadow as the one conrolling everything.

It's all about Shadow and his plan for revenge... the only reason he doesn't continue with it is that his memories slowly returns and he remembers what Maria told him.

Every single character in that game is simply reacting to Shadows plot for revenge.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Hogfather

[Eternal EX]

Shadow the Hedgehogs original title gives the game away.... "Sonic Adventure 3: Shadow of a Hedgehog."

Wow I remember that title waaaaaaaay back in 04. Sega was doing some kind of survey as to what game should they release next and about who and Shadow won by a land slide. At first it was suppose to be Sonic Adventure 3 but I guess some rep at Sega decided to change it to....Shadow the Hedgehog. Probably because Sonic & co were not playable. Uh okay they were sorta playable in 1p mode if you grabbed a second controller but.......you get what I mean.

[Dejablue]

SA2 is about Shadow just like 06 is about the Iblis/Mephelis thing. Are you....actually being serious with what you just typed out? Lol I guess so. Sure the story can be focused around Character A,B, or C but the hero of the story is going to always be Sonic. In the case of Shadow the game is about Shadow AND you play only as Shadow. So with moderate intelligence and common sense you can kind of figure out that the game should be named after him. You do realize it'd be pants on head retarded if SA2 had been called Shadow the Hedgehog or if Sonic 06 had been called Mephilis Adventure.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[Kuzu]

SA2 is about Shadow just like 06 is about the Iblis/Mephelis thing. Are you....actually being serious with what you just typed out? Lol I guess so. Sure the story can be focused around Character A,B, or C but the hero of the story is going to always be Sonic. In the case of Shadow the game is about Shadow AND you play only as Shadow. So with moderate intelligence and common sense you can kind of figure out that the game should be named after him. You do realize it'd be pants on head retarded if SA2 had been called Shadow the Hedgehog or if Sonic 06 had been called Mephilis Adventure.

So what? Sonic may be the hero, but it was Shadow's story. Its not that farfetched to name the game after Sonic while focusing on someone else. Hell the first Warioland game still had the Super Mario Land subtitle despite Mario not being playable.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

SA2 is about Shadow just like 06 is about the Iblis/Mephelis thing. Are you....actually being serious with what you just typed out? Lol I guess so. Sure the story can be focused around Character A,B, or C but the hero of the story is going to always be Sonic.

That was completely besides the point. Everyone knows who the goddamn hero of the story is in SA2, but Sonic wasn't the one the plot was about as a whole. He was there simply to stop a threat; the story gave focus of what the threat was and gave depth to the reasons of why the threat was being carried out the way it was.

Just like how Sonic was the hero of SA1, but the focus there was mostly on Chaos being the threat that it was and it's history up until the point it reaches it's perfect form.

You do realize it'd be pants on head retarded if SA2 had been called Shadow the Hedgehog or if Sonic 06 had been called Mephilis Adventure.

You do realize that he said absolutely nothing about calling SA2 Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic 06 being called Mephiiles Adventure, so what brought you to say that?

[Dejablue]

He said that SA2 was all about Shadow. But he's implying that it should have been called Shadow Adventure only because the story focuses around that one character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

He said that SA2 was all about Shadow. But he's implying that it should have been called Shadow Adventure only because the story focuses around that one character.

I saw no such implication throughout his post. He said that the story focuses on Shadow, but he doesn't go beyond that and he never so much as vaguely hinted that the game should be called Shadow Adventure.

Edited July 18, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

He said that SA2 was all about Shadow. But he's implying that it should have been called Shadow Adventure only because the story focuses around that one character.

No he said Shadow's game was orignally going to be called Sonic adventur 3, and then you went all "but Sonic is playable, so why would be called that" and then he responded with "It was Shadow's story in his game, NOT Sonic's".

[Dejablue]

Shadic rewrite your post to make sense. Nah never mind.

"but Sonic is playable, so why would be called that"

don't you mean isn't?

and then he responded with "It was Shadow's story in his game, NOT Sonic's".

Uh say wha? No shit? Shadow the Hedgehog the video game is about Shadow and not Sonic thus the name Shadow the Hedgehog is perfect for said game. Thankyou for proving my point.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[Kuzu]

and then he responded with "It was Shadow's story in his game, NOT Sonic's".

Uh say wha? No shit? Shadow the Hedgehog the video game is about Shadow and not Sonic thus the name Shadow the Hedgehog is perfect for said game. Thankyou for proving my point.

What Point? You were going how Sonic Adventure 3 wouldn't work, and we were saying it DOES work. So what if the game was about Shadow? If it was called Sonic Adventure 3, it still would've been about Shadow, so there is no proven point here.

[Badnik Mechanic]

SA2 is about Shadow just like 06 is about the Iblis/Mephelis thing. Are you....actually being serious with what you just typed out? Lol I guess so.

I sincerly hope you have a rock solid argument if you are going to suggest that to me.

Sure the story can be focused around Character A,B, or C but the hero of the story is going to always be Sonic. In the case of Shadow the game is about Shadow AND you play only as Shadow. So with moderate intelligence and common sense you can kind of figure out that the game should be named after him. You do realize it'd be pants on head retarded if SA2 had been called Shadow the Hedgehog or if Sonic 06 had been called Mephilis Adventure.

Your comparison is very weak.

You need to replay your games or at the very least brush up on the plot before making such comparisons. In Sonic 06 there is no manipulating of Eggman going on, Mephelis never attempts to get Eggman to do his work, he is acting on his own will and accord to bring about the events of the game.

Eggman is and was always after the flames of disaster for his own end, that is his goal. Sonic is trying to stop him. Mephilis however attempts to bring his own goals in line with it so he can rise to power. At not any point does Mephelis use Eggman, he only ties in his plans with Eggmans, the only one who Mephelis manipulates is Silver, and it's a very poor attempt at that since Silver more or less learns the truth by the halfway point of the game. The brief rivalry between Silver and Sonic is more a complication to Sonics goal than it is the primary plot goal. After all, it's not very long after the 'it's no useeeee' fight that Silver discovers the reality of the situation.

Had it not been for Eggmans actions, Mephilis can never do all the things he does. So how exactly can you argue that the story is focused on him... if anything the story is focused on friendship between various parings. Sonic & Elise (also you can argue Amy if you're very good at contextualising material), Blaze & Silver, Shadow and his 'associates.' And how everyones actions affect one another.

Unlike SA 2 and Sonic Heroes, there is no single entity thats directly in charge of the events. Yes a single powerful entity emerges in Sonic 06. But at no point was it ever in primary direct control or influence over everyone.

Secondly, so what if you only play as Shadow? The whole point here is the continuation of story. Shadows game wraps up the from Sonic Adventure 2 far more directly than Heroes did, (Probably why Sonic Heroes also at one point went by Sonic Adventure 3 before Iizuka decided to drop the title).

Tieing in with that... In both Adventure games, Sonics role is a collaborative role to the point where he's not needed at all. Take the start of the Dark side for Sonic Adventure 2... it's quite a while before Sonic is even seen in that part of the game. In fact theres an entire Eggman stage and a boss battle isn't there? Along with several rather long cut-scenes?

I fail to see why you don't play as Sonic directly a big problem as to why Shadows game can't be a continuation of the Sonic Adventure story.

linking with the above line. There is still question as to Shadows identity in Shadows game, we don't yet know if he's an Android, Clone, or alien... Furthermore... pay attention to the proposed title "Sonic Adventure 3: Shadow of a Hedgehog" (Thats what TSS/SONIC NEWS) had quoted. The whole point of that title suggests that Sonic is there, but the main focal point is on something else that appears also exactly like him.

Now, you say that the hero of the story is Sonic: Yet Sonic Adventure games are never 'just about' one character. Sonic Adventure sets up the idea of teamwork will win the day, hence why all the characters bring Sonic an emerald at the end. As we as there being so many other playable characters. With Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic certainly isn't the only hero by the end of it... for one thing... BOTH Sonic and Shadow fight the final boss in equal measure?

Between Shadows game and SA2, the idea of the lone hero was completely gone. Sonic Heroes (which again had the SA3 title at one point) declared "We're Sonic Heroes!" and "Lets show that creep the real super power of Team work!" Sonic might be in the game, but it's not until we've had Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 06 and Sonic Generations that we could argue that it's an "Eggman Vs Sonic" game. Even then it's debatable.

He said that SA2 was all about Shadow.

Yes I did.

But he's implying that it should have been called Shadow Adventure only because the story focuses around that one character.

Excuse me? I said no such thing.

I said that SA 2 is all about shadow and every character in that game reacts to shadows manipulation of other characters.

Will you kindly quote the point I said that the game should have been called Sonic Adventure.

Unless of course you are on about how Shadows game was originall going to be called Sonic Adventure 3: Shadow of a hedgehog... which it was according to several sources including the one I linked originally.

I saw no such implication throughout his post. He said that the story focuses on Shadow, but he doesn't go beyond that and he never so much as vaguely hinted that the game should be called Shadow Adventure.

I didn't even realise I'd vaguely hinted at it.

No way would I argue that SA 2 should be called Shadow Adventure.

The point I would argue though is that the game is effectively about Shadow, everyone is more or less controlled and everyone responds to his actions. Sonic is accused of being him, that brings him into the story. Eggman is following his instructions so Eggman goes and steals the master emerald, this brings both Knuckles and Rouge into it... from that point on Eggman is more or less under the impression that Shadow will end up being his slave/weapon.

Remember the start of the Dark side of the game? Eggman is looking for a new super weapon, he finds shadow... and he believes that Shadow is the weapon...

Shadow promises to grant him a wish... but theres a condition he must do this this and that... Eggman agrees... Shadow knows fully well whats he's doing and he's the disruption of the peaceful narrative, it's basic storytelling.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Hogfather

[Dejablue]

So if you make a game about Tails, a game where you play only as Tails and Sonic doesn't even show up but maybe...I dunno, 10 % of the game? And then you can't even play as him? But you call it Sonic Adventure, that'd be okay? I'd buy this game off the shelf and expect to play as Sonic but I'm playing as Tails 100 % of the time. This is where your arguments fail.

Yes I know about the sources. All I did was utter one sentence about why I thought calling Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic Adventure 3 made no sense. And you jumped on my throat over it. Because my one lined opinion was a big deal to you.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So if you called Tails Adventure, a game where you play only as Tails and Sonic doesn't even show up but maybe...I dunno, 10 % of the game? And then you can't even play as him? But you call it Sonic Adventure, that'd be okay? I'd buy this game off the shelf and expect to play as Sonic but I'm playing as Tails 100 % of the time. This is where your arguments fail.

Wait...what the hell are you talking about?

If you called the game Tails Adventure, no doubt you're going to expect to play as Tails. If you call the game Sonic Adventure, no doubt you're going to play as Sonic. But there's also no telling if there are going to be other character to play as, and that would likely depend on what you see on the front and back cover of the game and in the content of the game itself.

For example, if you call the game SA3: Shadow of a Hedgehog and put Shadow as the only character on the cover, it doesn't exactly take a huge stretch of logic to figure out who you're likely going to play as. Hell, Legend of Zelda is a good example, as you're playing as Link throughout the whole game as opposed to the character named in the title.

All I did was utter one sentence about why I thought calling Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic Adventure 3 made no sense. And you jumped on my throat over it. Because my one lined opinion was a big deal to you.

In that one lined opinion, you said he was implying that SA2 should be called Shadow's Adventure when there was absolutely nothing implying that at all.

Edited July 18, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dejablue]

No I'm pretty sure my one lined opinion was :

how could it have been Sonic Adventure 3 when the game is about Shadow?

And then I said well maybe the answer lies with the subtitle

But it's all about Shadow. You never play as Sonic. I guess the subtitle was supposed to fix that issue.

And then Hogfather started rambling about how SA2 was all about Shadow. Now why in the world would he even bring this up in the first place?

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[Badnik Mechanic]

And you jumped on my throat over it. Because my one lined opinion was a big deal to you.

Yeah thats exactly the reason.

It had nothing to do with defending my own point.

You claim that because a videogame doesn't allow you to play as a character, that means it makes no sense to call it a name thats associated with a said character.

I then tell you how it can, and at not one point did I feel the need to quite these interesting titles. Assasins Creed, Metal Gear Solid (Don't you only play as Snake for 10% of MGS 2?). (including Rising), house of the dead, Time Crisis, Oddworld and Bioshock. I could easilly go on for a very long time with this.

And then Hogfather started rambling about how SA2 was all about Shadow. Now why in the world would he even bring this up in the first place?

Maybe you should ask me directly instead of making sly remarks at me?

You said "But it's all about Shadow. You never play as Sonic. I guess the subtitle was supposed to fix that issue." in post 25 of this topic.

I then quoted you and explained how Shadows game is a continuation of the Adventure Storyline and went onto explain and provide examples as to why that game is also about shadow and how you could give Shadows game the title of "Sonic Adventure 3: Shadow of a Hedgehog" considering it directly continues and closes the adventure storyline? This was alredy been explained several times.

Also would you please stop making these sly remarks at me as I don't feel I deserve them.

Anyway it's 6:30am. I've had enough of this, I think I've more or less made and defended my point enough for one morning.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Hogfather

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No I'm pretty sure my one lined opinion was :

That was two lines when I read it. But in any case, it would help if you would specify your post next time.

And then Hogfather started rambling about how SA2 was all about Shadow. Now why in the world would he even bring this up in the first place?

To show you how the name of the game could still star a different character, or how the story could be about a different character as opposed to the main hero.

[Dejablue]

As I said in my last post. I figured it would work with the subtitle. I guess you missed that post because it got voted down, probably by one of you guys, and nobody could see it. This is pretty much where my argument would have ended but then you started saying stuff about how SA2 was about Shadow being the focus which just confuses me. The franchise is about Sonic. So what does it matter? Why not call Sonic 1 "Dr. Robotnick Attacks" and then call Sonic 2 "Dr. Robotnik Strikes Back" and so on.

Also so what if it was two lines? Two lines is all it takes get you so upset?

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[Dejablue]

Hmmm so this is because of some unsaid sly remarks. *goes back a page* Ah I actually missed something you wrote because right after that somebody posted right after you. I just missed yours in all of the spit fire replies and started talking to Chaos again.

So did I really really hurt your feelings or something?

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

As I said in my last post. I figured it would work with the subtitle. I guess you missed that post because it got voted down, probably by one of you guys, and nobody could see it. This is pretty much where my argument would have ended but then you started saying stuff about how SA2 was about Shadow being the focus which just confuses me.

That's as straightforward as I'm making it, and I was keeping it short.

The franchise is about Sonic. So what does it matter?

Because the could focus on someone other than Sonic despite the name of the game. Just like how the Legend of Zelda is about Link despite Zelda not being the central character.

Why not call Sonic 1 "Dr. Robotnick Attacks" and then call Sonic 2 "Dr. Robotnik Strikes Back" and so on.

Nothing stopping them from doing so. But they didn't name them that way.

Also so what if it was two lines? Two lines is all it takes get you so upset?

You're just trying to humor me aren't you?

Are you trying to get me upset? Because if you are, good luck trying.

But you said it was a one line opinion, and clearly that was not a one line opinion when you edited it. Yes, I'm being picky, because no ones a mind reader here to know which post you meant and you would do well to keep that in mind.

So did I really really hurt your feelings or something?

Dejablue, I don't know what the heck you're trying to pull here, if anything, but show some respect and knock off with these sly personal attacks like this. Or at least watch yourself and keep from making something look like one.

None of us have tried pissing you off, insulting you, or anything other than debate with you on the subject, and at this point you look as if your trying to reach below the belt with these remarks. So knock it off, please. He asked you nicely.

Edited July 18, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dejablue]

I quoted the line I was talking about. I didn't edit it either. But anyway My business isn't with you. Its with Hogfather. I went back and read what he said and he needs to know that his long ass explanations were not needed. At my very first subtitle comment I was pretty much conceding to the idea that Sonic Adventure 3: Shadow of a Hedgehog would make sense. I still don't like the title but that's my business and I'm glad they didn't use it. I'm not apologizing for these "sly comments" that I didn't say but I'll just agree with him so this can end.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I quoted the line I was talking about. I didn't edit it either.

I'm looking dead at it and it says underneath your words, so you clearly did edit it. There's no hiding that.

But anyway My business isn't with you. Its with Hogfather.

I really don't care who your business is with. You're on an internet forum; everything you say is the business of everyone who chooses to get involved.

I went back and read what he said and he needs to know that his long ass explanations were not needed.

If he could take 100 words and say them in 10, he wouldn't need to use long explanations. But those explanations are there to cover any holes he may leave in his argument should you try to take advantage of them.

I'm not apologizing for these "sly comments" that I didn't say but I'll just agree with him so this can end.

Then watch your wording. It's very easy to be insulting and not realize it until someone points it out.

[Dejablue]

You mis understand. You're looking at the wrong post from me altogether. Also you're not Hogfather. I don't have to answer to you for these unsaid sly comments either. But if I have to discuss them with anyone, its with Hogfather, not you. Unless you're a mod or an admin or something I don't care about how you feel on that particular issue.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Dejablue

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You mis understand. You're looking at the wrong post from me altogether.

You mind showing me the right post then?

Also you're not Hogfather. I don't have to answer to you for these unsaid sly comments either. But if I have to discuss them with anyone, its with Hogfather, not you.

I don't have to be Hogfather. That's not going to stop me from sticking up for him, if I feel he's been wronged in some way.

Unless you're a mod or an admin or something I don't care about how you feel about that particular issue.

I can certainly go get the mods or admins and have them sort this out if you want to keep this up. I'm asking you to show some respect and watch your wording to prevent people interpreting your words as sly remarks. It's not too much to ask, dude.

Edited July 18, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dejablue]

Here is the post.