Dumping on Dimps

[Legendary Emerald]

The last few months, I've noticed something that I just don't understand. In the comments section of both Sonic Stadium and TSSZ News articles, fans seem to be going out of their way to talk about how much the Dimps development group sucks, even when the article in question has nothing to do with them. Is this a recent occurrence? Or have I somehow never noticed it before? Either way, I decided to play all the Dimps games over again, even buying Sonic Unleashed Wii just so I would not have an incomplete list. Here's my opinions, in short.

DIMPS RETROSPECTIVE ZONE

ACT 1: Learn the ropes!

Sonic Pocket Adventure

Pros: First Sonic handheld game that played exactly like Genesis titles without slowdown; puzzle piece collecting; original level layouts and new boss battles.

Cons: Essentially a reimaging of Sonic 2; doesn't feel "new".

Sonic Advance

Pros: Good approximation of the original Genesis physics; great level design; good soundtrack; multiple characters; mini-chao Garden connects to Sonic Adventure 2 Battle.

Cons: Slightly slower paced than Genesis titles; bad special stage design; Amy is sort of useless

Sonic Advance 2

Pros: Good soundtrack; fastest Sonic game yet.

Cons: Awful level design in second half of game; nearly impossible to reach special stages; introduction of Cream the Rabbit.

Sonic Advance 3

Pros: Good soundtrack; brought back platforming; introduction of Gemerl.

Cons: Awful control, due to absolutely broken physics; far too many cheap deaths even early in the game; mess of a hub world; still nearly impossible to reach special stages.

Sonic Battle

Note: Developed by Sonic Team, not Dimps. I did not know this until researching for this thread.

DIMPS GOT THROUGH ACT 1!

Before we head to the next generation of handhelds, lets see what the track record is. We have two great, classic feeling Sonic platformers in Sonic Pocket Adventure and Sonic Advance. Then things get much shakier for the Advance sequels, though they do have their share of fans. Now we move on to the next generation, and see if Dimps has learned from its mistakes.

DIMPS RETROSPECTIVE ZONE

ACT 2: Use the boost to get through!

Sonic Rush

Pros: Vastly improved level design over Sonic Advance 2 and 3; introduction of boost mechanic; introduction of trick mechanic; catchy music; introduction of Blaze the Cat.

Cons: Jumping physics work in the context of the game, but are not optimal; later zones feature bottomless pits heavily.

Sonic Rush Adventure

Pros: Got rid of most of the bottomless pits; pirates!

Cons: Music not quite as catchy; mini-games grow tiring after awhile.

Neutral: Marine the Raccoon introduced, and then never heard from again.

Sonic Unleashed Wii

Note: Dimps only worked on the daytime sequences in Unleashed for the Wii, and I will judge them as such.

Pros: Tighter control than HD Unleashed; fixed broken drift mechanic from HD Unleashed; made water running sequences enjoyable as opposed to infuriating; emphasis placed on multiple paths; lacking cheap deaths of HD Unleashed.

Cons: Sonic is still awkward to control when not running; boost mechanic slightly less useful than in HD Unleashed; only 7 full stages as opposed to HD Unleashed's 8 and a half (the half in reference being Eggmanland).

Sonic Colors DS

Pros: Adds wisps to the already solid "Rush" formula; good approximation of Wii soundtrack; original Wisps; exclusive bosses, including a secret final boss.

Cons: Over reliance on Burst wisp; digging feels worse than in HD counterpart; last zone is full of instant deaths.

DIMPS GOT THROUGH ACT 2!

After the Advance series, Dimps decided to innovate rather than imitate, and gained much critical acclaim. While there are of course some who dislike the Rush series for various reasons, most Sonic fans have come to accept all of Dimps' DS games and Unleashed Wii as welcome additions to the Sonic franchise. So, why all the hate?

Wait, what? I'm missing a game? Silly me...

DIMPS RETROSPECTIVE ZONE

BOSS ACT:

Sonic 4: Episode 1 (PS3, XBOX 360, Wii)

Pros: Overall very good level design; addition of homing attack; catchy and nostalgic soundtrack; Super Sonic in levels.

Cons: The physics make no sense if you stop to think about them for even a second; rolling is nearly useless; bosses are rehashed; very short; doesn't feel like a true successor to Genesis trilogy; not even as good as Sonic Advance 1.

There was no glossing over this game. While a commercial and critical success, the game absolutely bombed with many fans. I myself find it a decent game, and play it from time to time, but even I was disappointed with how little it had to offer. Undoubtedly, this game was the source of much of the hate I now find littering the Sonic sites.

WRAP UP ZONE

Final Act:

But is all that hatred really justified? Dimps has more hits than misses in my book, and even their games which I don't care for have their fair share of fans. I know there was a lot of hype for Sonic 4, and I know that we as a whole were let down by them. But are they horrible developers? The track record says otherwise, at least in my eyes. Feel free to disagree.

I myself continue to hope for the best with Sonic Generations 3DS, and you will not hear my voice among those who say the game is doomed to fail just because it is being made by Dimps. That said, if the game does disappoint, I will be complaining right along with the rest of you. But for now, there's nothing else to say.

GAME OVER

THANKS FOR READING!

Edited July 25, 2011 by Legendary Emerald

[Soniman]

They had a decent streak until Unleashed Wii, Sonic 4, and Generations 3DS.

I mean, just LOOK at the 3DS version, it looks like Sonic Blast 2

Edited July 25, 2011 by Soniman032-

[ChikaBoing]

You forgot the overall blandness of Dimps games. Advance 1,2 and Rush don't really have great Level Design, and were rather forgettable. And the Art is cheap and meh.

Sonic Team shows much more promise in their Ideas in the Sonic gameplay of their games, and if they get it right, it's much better Dimps has ever managed to make. People are just realising that now.

Edited July 25, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Rusty Spy]

You forgot the overall blandness of Dimps games. Advance 1,2 and Rush don't really have great Level Design, and were rather forgettable. And the Art is cheap and meh. Sonic Team shows much more promise in their Ideas in the Sonic gameplay of their games, and if they get it right, it's much better Dimps has ever managed to make. People are just realising that now.

This. First of all, Pocket Adventure felt like a Sonic 2 ripoff made by some Chinese developers and wasn't interesting at all, and Advance 1 didn't do anything bad, but at the same time didn't do anything worthwhile. Dimps are the kind of devs that who are only considered good because they don't do anything particularly heinous, besides make Advance 3 and Unleashed Wii's daytime levels.

[Swiss]

Sonic 4 was unforgivable. I mean, it's only Sonic the Hedgehog freaking 4 and they barely even tried to make it feel that way from the looks of things. I still can't fathom how the hell it got through testing the way it did.

But I agree with the above, Sonic Advance wasn't exactly mind-blowing, just a pretty solid game. They unfortunately fell into bad habits.

[Azzy]

I've never played Unwiished, and barely played the Advance games. So Rush, Rush Adventure, Colours DS and Sonic 4 are the only games I've played that were developed by Dimps. Rush and Rush Adventure get more credit than they're worth imo, yeah, they're good games, but I just find that they rely too much on boosting and don't offer a great deal of platforming throughout the game. Colours DS was pretty much the same, but with wisps.

Sonic 4 is ok, not great, but no where near as bad as some people make it out to be. The game was a bit of a disappointment for me, since it didn't play like a classic game at all (which is what it set out to be), but the game is enjoyable. I don't think they deserve the hate they get, I'm neutral towards them, maybe the future Episodes of Sonic 4 will change that.

[goku262002]

My overall POV has been already covered in the "SEGA does/doesn't Give a crap about sonic 4 topic".

I don't rage-hate DIMPS i like the company for its fighting games like dbz budokai and their GBA line of games like sonic advance 1 (SADV1) and DB advanced adventure. but whoever took over after SADV1 needs to be kicked off the sonic line of games or at least be more well informed of what we want.

For awhile now DIMPS has just been shoveling out what they think we like in sonic games and we have been negative about it, and in return, them. In my honest opinion though, it seems to be that SPA and SADV1 were the only real sonic games they got right in my mind and even me regarding SADV1 as "The real sonic 4" so at least i like DIMPS for making SADV1 and SPA. SADV2 was criticized for being too "hold right to win!" and linear, SADV3 was criticized for being too puzzle-like and less platformer offering no real speed to the game, the Rush series (including Colors DS) started the whole "boost to win!" stigma.

But another thing is physics and platforming, after SADV1 it seems like DIMPS threw everything they knew about sonic out the window and did their own thing with sonic result in shoddy physics that still stick around to this day and linear levels that lack alternate paths or any real platforming challenge the classics had. I'll let the super nit-pickers go into detail about that.

Our hate stems from the fact that they won't listen to us! They do whatever they want keep making the same mistakes over and over and over making us disrespect them even more. SEGA has now after the 2006 incident started taking feedback and listening to what we have to say regardless if it sounds like rabid rage fits or thoughtful input. but before that our hate was directed at SEGA or Sonic Team for not listening to us and doing what they wanted with no regard in what we wanted out of a sonic game resulting in fans turning their backs on sonic and creating a negative stigma that won't seem to leave. Now if you go into any Kotaku or Destructoid topic about Sonic you'll see plenty of choice comments that all stem from old feedback from years ago and yet only about 15% of those casual or non-sonic fans will admit that that they have kept up with the series and back their claims (Tiller, could use some help here! )

If DIMPS lent out that hand of support started taking feedback from us just like how SEGA is doing now or if SEGA can pass the word and tell them how passionate we are in seeing better games from them and a list of demands that must be changed in their line of sonic games, i don't think the DIMPS hate would be around as much other then the stigma that sticks around just like the SEGA/Sonic Team/General Sonic stigma.

Oh god, long ass post. but thats my POV of everything DIMPS sonic related. I'll be sure to be linking this from now on if anybody wants to know my POV about DIMPS sonic.

[jennytablina]

I pretty much agree with those verdicts (though object to Cream's introduction being a bad thing exactly...)

I remember people giving Advance 3 lots of praise back in the day, while I liked the team up system. So much focus was put on that - that Dimps forgot to design decent levels for the game. Also the Chao are a nice touch but STUPIDLY hard to find

IMO, for it's time, the Sonic Advance sprites were pretty impressive really, they did a TON of animation for the games - most of which looks pretty good. That hasnt translated quite so well into their CGI work sadly...

The problem is Dimps were given what some fans would consider the HOLY GRAIL of Sonic titles, Sonic 4 - and effectively with just one (intended) part of the entire game, managed to solly the original series with a wannabe title that fell far short of it's predecessors. If it didn't have that name, and had stuck to iOS only, it would of been seen as simply a neat iOS title with flaws. Not excusing the shoddy work done on Episode 1 - I dont dislike it, but there are SERIOUS issues in it that should of been addressed much earlier in production, soon as they knew it was gonna be multi-platform

Theres no doubt that Sonic 4: Episode 2 is being held back as long as possible for Dimps to get it right. I hope SEGA are keeping an eagle eye on Generations 3DS too, some views of people who have played the demo worry me - as it sounds like it's got major slowdown issues :/, hopefully that's worked out closer to release...

[T-Min]

There are two reasons why I think people hate Dimps. The first (and most obvious) reason is how Sonic 4 turned out. Even if you thought it was decent, you've got to keep in mind that it's meant to be a sequel to the classic games, yet it shares little with them. I, myself, really enjoyed the game, but I can definitely see why a lot of people didn't like it, and the physics engine is a flaw that cannot be denied.

This is the second reason:

As for my opinion on them, I enjoy their contributions to the franchise that I've played, but Generations 3D looks...well, "mediocre" would be being FAR too nice.

Edited July 25, 2011 by T-Man

[Old dead account]

Didn't you hear? Dimps is the new Sonic Team and Sonic Team is the new Dimps.

A lot of people are mostly angry about Sonic 4, though for good reason. Way I see it:

Sonic Pocket Adventure: definition of rehash with very little originallity until the end. 5/10

Sonic Advance: their shining moment. Good physics and design, personally one my 5 favorite Sonic games, because of their good use of different characters that didn't feel forced or gimmicky especially Amy. 9/10

Sonic Advance 2: Didn't exactly advance the series, and brought in a massive increased focus on speed. Different from the classics? Yes. Inferior to them? I think so. Is it bad? No. It offers a bit of a different challenge that doesn't feel like dramatic gameplay change. Cream didn't ruin the game or the series either despite ignorant belief 7/10

Sonic Advance 3: this one's iffy for me. The forced team ups can be pretty annoying due to usually screwing up abilities and having more sluggish controls, but level design was huge and I really liked that. 6/10

Sonic Rush: Boost's debut. Did a very good job with implementing that roller coaster design. Also, Blaze. 8/10

Sonic Rush Adventure: more of Rush, but with some interesting boats. Material collecting can feel like chore though. 8/10

Unleashed Wii: Lol bland. Nothing can be said for it. 4/10

Sonic Colors DS: Not sure if Dimps was in on this. It was Rush with more platforming and powerups. 8/10

Sonic 4: what really killed them. Was really noting but a nostalgic cash in, did nothing to even advance the series. Only thing that can be said for it is that was sort of fun on it's own at least in my eyes and had an interesting gimmick but still, physics(shut up that is a valid complaint). Though Lost Labyrinth did improve on Labyrinth zone in pretty much every aspect. 6/10

I really liked their efforts overall, but lately they been making bad decisions. I hope Generations 3DS will be good at least. If though new screenshots are any indication

[ThatGuyJay]

I'm not gonna lie, that totem pole thing looks kinda cool.

But anyway....

In all honesty the only game they made simalar to the classics is Advance 1 so my question is why did they didn't use this as a base of the Sonic 4 instead of Rush. Sonic 4 wouldn't get as much crap if it wasn't a sequal to S3&K.

I liked Sonic Rush for what it was but I didn't like that this became Sonic's new 2D gameplay. So I really didn't get much into Rush Adventure and only played it once. And you can argue that Wii's Unleashed Day Time levels are good, but when compared to the HD counterpart it doesn't really stand a chance. Sonic Advance 2 and 3 were okay in their own way but IMO it just isn't as good as the first. I haven't played Colors DS so I can't speak on that. Same with Pocket Adventures.

It seems lately Dimps has been relying on making just decent games and not to go above and beyond. And you can't just do that for a game that's suppose to be a sequal to Sonic 3&K.

Edited July 26, 2011 by ThatGuy

[no one]

I don't mind Dimps. I liked Advance 3 and the Rush Series. Unleashed Wii was pretty good too imo.

[mikeblastdude]

From what I understand, most of the Dimps hate comes from Sonic 4. Which I personally enjoyed, but can understand the hate for. I think it's a good game but a huge step down from the classics.

Apparently there's a lot of hate for Sonic Advance 3 as well, which I had no idea of until recently (I even made a about it a little while back). It got pretty good reviews with the critics and I thought it was pretty well-accepted by the fans as well all these years, but this past year it's like Sonic Advance 3 has become the Sonic 06 of handhelds. >_< Maybe I'm just unobservant and hadn't noticed, I don't know. I still love that game though...

Anyway, Dimps is still fine as far as I'm concerned, but I have to admit the 3DS version of Sonic Generations is looking extremely crappy. I really hope they get that shaped up.

[Ekaje]

I do think that Dimps has gone down in quality recently, but their games have always fluctuated in quality a bit for me.

Advance 1- Okay, but boring.

Advance 2- Yes, there's a lot of right holding and cheap deaths, but I personally find this one the best of the Advances.

Advance 3- Interesting gimmick and hub design ruined by terrible level designs.

One thing I dislike about all three the are the Special Stages. For some reason it's just hard to play these ones for me, and in 2 and 3, they're a pain to even get to.

Rush- Good, Altitude Limit has a few too many instadeath areas, but overall a fun game.

Rush Adventure- Improvement on Rush in every area but music.

Unwiished Day- Utterly boring and not fun in the slightest. Didn't even finish it before selling it. Only challenge in the stages was getting an S, which was just "find best route, do without messing up."

Colors DS- Mediocre, mildly enjoyable at some points, but just too easy, bland, and short.

Sonic 4- Physics are wonky, but still a fun game for me. Calling it 4 was a terrible idea, would've gone over better if it was called "Sonic Download Adventure" or something.

Gens 3DS looks like it'll be like Colors DS from what we've seen, but acknowledgement by SEGA that it "sucks" as of that build will make me wait until we see more of it to make concrete judgement on it.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Ekaje

[Aquaslash]

Dimps has a number of problems from the get go. The first is overall bad level design. Advance 1 and SPA are the exceptions to the rule. Advances 2, 3, and Rush are the biggest offenders though. Advance 3's layouts are right down there with Chaotix in that they're an outright bear to get through. Advance 2's are infamous for basically being a downward slope. then there's the pacing issue that dimps seems to have in which they immediately follow a speed section with precision platforming over bottomless pits. 9 times out of ten this is right before the end of the stage which provides some of the cheapest "challenge" ever seen in Sonic games.

The other big one I have with Dimps is their absolutely horrible special stage systems, and their abysmal use of Super Sonic. The norm for them is a convoluted system where you can only get one emerald PER ZONE, and that Emerald is a real pain to get to. Sonic Advance 3 takes the piss in this. Find all of Chao, and THEN find the keys. Two exploration quests for a single sitnkin emerald. Now do it 6 more times. Then there's the fact that the special stages themselves are almost never intuitive and have a massive difficulty spike after the third one.

It's bad enough that with their system in place, you don't get all the Chaos Emeralds until the penultimate zone (if you're lucky) but then they actually have the gall to restrict use of Super Sonic to a single boss battle, and said boss battle is always AWFUL. It's a real shame in the case of Sonic Advance. The special stage system is what holds it back from being a great game like the classics.

It took Sonic freakin 4 before Dimps was schooled on how to properly use Super Sonic and the emeralds, but then they turned right around and went back to the same bull crap for Sonic Colors when even the console version used them properly.

And those are just my personal grievances with them. We're not even gonna get started on how they completely botched the basic gameplay of Sonic 4.

[Milo]

Don't we already have a Dimps thread....?

Anyway, I'll just leave this pic and quote here .....

Dimps quality is like their level design. It only goes downhill.

[Soniman]

Don't we already have a Dimps thread....?

Anyway, I'll just leave this pic and quote here .....

Good to know that Generations 3DS has bad level design, dodged a potential bullet there!

[Rusty Spy]

lol, judging games that haven't been released yet based on one level. Oh fanbase.

[mikeblastdude]

Another thing I forgot to mention, is that Dimps seems to do best when they're not trying to copy something else. Sonic Rush and especially Sonic Rush Adventure are, in my opinion, excellent games that probably stand out as being Dimps' best work. They don't really have that "classic" gameplay, but they don't try to. It's like they created some kind of crazy racing/roller coaster/platformer-hybrid gameplay that's a blast to play through. Hell, I'll even say it, I'd rank Sonic Rush Adventure almost as high as the classics.

I think that's what Dimps should be doing with the Sonic series from now on. Instead of making games that try to play like the classics (because I think the general fan perception is that they just can't get it right), they should just do their own thing and try out different ways to change up the gameplay. At least that's what I think. Like I said, I actually like Sonic 4 so it's all good to me either way. I still really hope they fix the problems with the 3DS Generations though.

[T-Min]

lol, judging games that haven't been released yet based on one level. Oh fanbase.

Did you even watch the gameplay videos? The classic level is literally the EXACT SAME level as the one from the Genesis game, but with Sonic 4's physics and a bad framerate, and the level design in the modern level is incredibly bland. Not to mention that, judging from what we've seen, the graphics look pretty bad as well, especially Modern Sonic's running animation. What this pretty much means is that it's not much of a stretch to assume that the first three classic levels of the game will offer absolutely nothing new (people accuse Sonic 4 of being a rehash, but at least it had new level layouts) and everything aside from that will just be utterly bland and boring. And really, even though I was able to forgive Sonic 4 for it, the physics haven't changed even though they KNOW people hated them? Honestly, now?

If you want to be optimistic about Generations 3D, that's fine, but it shouldn't be hard to see why a lot of us aren't...

[Marcello]

Don't we already have a Dimps thread....?

Anyway, I'll just leave this pic and quote here .....

What a stupid picture. Last I checked Sonic 4 wasn't garbage, Sonic Rush Adventure and Advance 2 were good and Generations wasn't out.

Did you even watch the gameplay videos? The classic level is literally the EXACT SAME level as the one from the Genesis game, but with Sonic 4's physics and a bad framerate, and the level design in the modern level is incredibly bland. Not to mention that, judging from what we've seen, the graphics look pretty bad as well, especially Modern Sonic's running animation. What this pretty much means is that it's not much of a stretch to assume that the first three classic levels of the game will offer absolutely nothing new (people accuse Sonic 4 of being a rehash, but at least it had new level layouts) and everything aside from that will just be utterly bland and boring. And really, even though I was able to forgive Sonic 4 for it, the physics haven't changed even though they KNOW people hated them? Honestly, now?

If you want to be optimistic about Generations 3D, that's fine, but it shouldn't be hard to see why a lot of us aren't...

It's an early Alpha build. The newest screens are looking a lot better. Funny how when people noticed problems with Generations HD, people would always run in and say it was an early build and ST was sure to fix them, but with the 3DS version, people totally ignore this.

[Blacklightning]

It's an early Alpha build. The newest screens are looking a lot better. Funny how when people noticed problems with Generations HD, people would always run in and say it was an early build and ST was sure to fix them, but with the 3DS version, people totally ignore this.

Remember how people complained about Sonic 4 not long before the game was released, and Dimps did everything in their power to address said complaints when the entire game was leaked?

Yeah, neither do I. It's not exactly unreasonable to expect the same will happen here, even if time will tell.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Blacklightning

[Milo]

Remember how people complained about Sonic 4 not long before the game was released, and Dimps did everything in their power to address said complaints when the entire game was leaked?

Yeah, neither do I. It's not exactly unreasonable to expect the same will happen here, even if time will tell.

Pretty much this. And considering the amount of criticism Sonic 4 got over the physics, you would had at least have seen some major improvement in the build at least in some areas. But it simply looks like they ported the Rush engine for modern Sonic and the Sonic 4 engine for classic Sonic, and tweaked some areas. This definitely stands true for classic Sonic-not only is uncurling STILL in the classic Sonic build (especially that was one of the BIG complaints), the "wheel" animation is also intact as well!

[Marcello]

Remember how people complained about Sonic 4 not long before the game was released, and Dimps did everything in their power to address said complaints when the entire game was leaked?

Yeah, neither do I. It's not exactly unreasonable to expect the same will happen here, even if time will tell.

[Milo]

I do. I remember them making two new levels because people complained and other things, too.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Ananze