Might Colours Have Started as Generations Wii?

[Blue Blood]

C&P of Jimmy's post at Retro:

Colours pretty much for sure started out as a version of Generations for the Wii. Enemys such as the Crabmeat actually have the little dance animation that they have in Generations, it's just never used. Also Sega never bothers to keep file names consistent between games, but for Generations the shared things from Colours such as Sonic and enemys are labeled "chr_Sonic_HD" and "chr_Sonic_SD" for Generations and Colours respectively; meaning they most likely made the assets at the same time for the same project which is why there are multiple leftover animations in Colours that are used in Generations.

He knows what he's talking about, and that would make sense. Badniks like Chopper, Motobug and Buzzer were re-used twice in 2010- in S4E1 and Colours. However, their designs in Colours match their Generations designs, not the S4 ones.

And there's this from Nintendo Power June 2011:

So, there was some development of Generations on Wii at some point. Whether this means physical development or just concepts isn't specified, but still. Maybe some more light will get shed on this.

[Blue Wisp]

Interesting. I wouldn't have minded if Sonic Generations played like Sonic Colours should it be released in the Wii.

[Vec]

It makes sense. They reused the cancelled StH2006 Wii to make Secret Rings, so I don't see why won't they grab the abandonned Generations Wii to make another game

[goku262002]

SPY! WE GOT A SPY OVER HERE!! SPY SAPPIN MY CONVOSATION!!!

Yeah i was originally talking about how the 3DS version could be a wii proto-build that was moved to the 3DS. I debunked it though because the statement Iizuka made was too vague in what he ment by "development".

Buy hey this makes total sense! I know Sonic Team doesn't like to waste material they worked hard on and i had a feeling they wouldn't just toss a build away because it switched development from the wii to the 3DS. making it into sonic colors sounds like something they would do.

Edited July 26, 2011 by goku262002

[Eternal EX]

Well at least this explains why there were so many similar things between Colors (Colours) and Generations HD.

[Spooky Mulder]

It had to have been in the VERY, VERY early stages of development when it was scrapped considering that there is actually a stage from Colors in Sonic Generations.

[Blue Blood]

It had to have been in the VERY, VERY early stages of development when it was scrapped considering that there is actually a stage from Colors in Sonic Generations.

Considering it's a single stage, not particularly. Colours was announced in May 2010, and must have been in development a long time before that. By the time of the announcement however, the bulk of it would have been completed, and stages would have been decided a long time ago. There's plenty of time for them to have added Planet Wisp to Generations. But yes, development can't have gotten too far if the 3DS version didn't go into development until the Wii one was abandoned.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Sonictrainer]

He knows what he's talking about, and that would make sense. Badniks like Chopper, Motobug and Buzzer were re-used twice in 2010- in S4E1 and Colours. However, their designs in Colours match their Generations designs, not the S4 ones.

...if I had to choose, I'd also use the Colors versions of certain enemies as well, since it looks more like the original.

Also, in the Sonic Generations Demo, there was a Buzzer, which is the yellow one from Sonic 2, and a Buzzbomber, which the blue one from the original game.

Edited July 26, 2011 by STrainer

[Spooky Mulder]

Considering it's a single stage, not particularly. Colours was announced in May 2010, and must have been in development a long time before that. By the time of the announcement however, the bulk of it would have been completed, and stages would have been decided a long time ago. There's plenty of time for them to have added Planet Wisp to Generations. But yes, development can't have gotten too far.

My point was that it was probably cancelled before all of the stages were even decided. Generations has 9 stages, one from each era. If Colors didn't exist at the time the stages were selected, then what was originally the final stage from the Modern Era?

Edited July 26, 2011 by SpookyMulder

[Blue Blood]

My point was that it was probably cancelled before all of the stages were even decided. Generations has 9 stages, one from each era. If Colors didn't exist at the time the stages were selected, then what was originally the final stage from the Modern Era?

And what I'm saying is that the stage list could have been adapted after Colours went into production.

[Spooky Mulder]

And what I'm saying is that the stage list could have been adapted after Colours went into production.

Obviously, but then what game could the original ninth stage have been from? The Modern Era without Colors only contains two games.

Edited July 26, 2011 by SpookyMulder

[Blue Blood]

Obviously, but then what game could the original ninth stage have been from? The Modern Era without Colors only contains two games.

Who knows. Maybe there wasn't one, or maybe the stage list wasn't finalised until until Colours had started development. It would support your theory about the Wii version being scrapped very early on, poitentially even at just the concepts and brainstorming stage.

[Voyant]

Obviously, but then what game could the original ninth stage have been from? The Modern Era without Colors only contains two games.

Didn't you watch the Anniversary video.... Secret Rings dude! =D

***

This would explain why Sonic Colors had such a low budget, reused level geometry, reused bosses and lacked the "Lovin" factor. Very interesting indeed. Totally makes sense.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Voyant

[Spooky Mulder]

Actually, who knows, maybe a Sonic 4 Episode 1 stage was originally planned to be in the game? Yeah, it would technically be a remake of a remake, but Seaside Hill is in the game (even if I do think that it's much more like Ocean Palace).

I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Mad Gear was intended to be the final stage of the game, it would actually make a lot more sense than finishing with Planet Wisp.

[goku262002]

Long theory ahead.

I would recommend using the bathroom, go get something to eat, stretch or something. your going to strain your eyes reading this book of a post, warning you now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've been comparing dates based on kotaku articles, press releases, fan rumors and etc. and a sound theory has popped into my head. Sonic Colors was announced in May of 2010 a month later the Nintendo 3DS is announced with no tech demo for Sonic only a listing for a "Sonic 3DS". (Was a tech video shown?)

You all very well know that until a console is almost ready for launch, Companys like nintendo send out "Dev Kits" of consoles frequently usually they are beta units of consoles that get changed regularly based on feedback from developers. I have a theory that if Colors Wii was Generations Wii at one point, SEGA got their hands on one of the 3DS dev kits from nintendo and was hyped to get a sonic game on this console. Since Generations, sonic's 20th birthday game, would most likely match up with Nintendo's intended release date (or pass it if you will) of the 3DS they decided to end the Wii development of generations to focus on nintendo's new console. Remember new consoles means money and having a title for the 3DS when it comes out if not a launch title then a holiday title of its release year would generate profits.

To have this theory hold though, the Wii-U or what it was called then "Project Café" was a factor. SEGA wouldn't just abandon a console soo easily especially for a handheld unless they knew the wii wasn't going to be around for much longer. do you guys remember if there were any Café "maybe thats possible"-type that turned out to be true rumors going about when or before colors was announced?

But what to do with this already started build of Generations Wii? No sense in wasting it the dev team working on it was putting allot of effort into it, lets turn it into its own game and through process of transition Sonic Colors was born!

But this had to be sometime before may of 2010 so maybe late 2009-early 2010. Remember when Colors was announced all we got was just a really short version of the intro to Colors, something their CGI crew could whip up in a month if they just needed a teaser for the fans. While Generations Wii started its transition to Colors Wii I'm guessing another team starting making groundwork on how a 3DS sonic game would work (outsourced to DIMPS for the time being maybe?).

My bet was that anything that the main team made for generations was shared with the wii dev team for colors making the badnik designs and filename theory fit. Why change the file names after all? we wouldn't catch on even if we hacked the shit out of colors later. besides it makes things easier...

Now how would Generations have a Colors stage? My guess is that the main team didn't really have all their stages planned out yet hell knows how many stages were planned for Generations HD before they had to cut them down to just 9, Remember the facebook poll in 2009 voted in what we wanted in levels and the main dev team weighed in on it as well but I'm sure they had a few choice ones made already. They probably wanted a current stage from a recent game that is coming, they probably shared ideas with the wii dev team who was working on Colors Wii and was shown Planet Wisp level, They may have had the same idea we all did when we all played Planet Wisp the first time "Wouldn't this look great in HD?..." making the Planet Wisp In Generations theory fit as well.

I wouldn't think of Colors as a cash in before SEGA ditches the wii more like a last hoorah, what better to give fans of a dying console their last sonic game then a taste of what was to come masked under a different name. True, Colors went through allot of modifications if it was really Generations wii but its not like they could've kept the gameplay the same it would blow their surprise they had planned fans would just call Generations a "Overall HD copy/paste of Colors" so they added the Wisp Gimmicks to cover some of generations mechanics (Hey now that i think about it, doesn't the Pink Spike wisp's spin dash feel a bit like Generations classic spin dash?) and of course change the classic mechanic to a 2.5d modern sonic mechanic to cover the classic idea they had planned. Throw in a few extras as well (supersonic for example) after all, fans are going to be pretty ticked when they find out generations isn't coming to wii...might as well have something good to play with until their console gets replaced.

The script for Colors i have a theory on too. It always made me curious as to why the script to the DS version is slightly different then the wii version especially why does the DS version have a MOTW when the Wii version doesn't. My guess is that the DS version is actually Colors' original script! It has everything the current trend in main sonic games had and then some. Why change it though? "We" are the answer. remember we had thrown out our feedback about the overuse of characters new and old NPC or not (except unleashed) and the fucking MOTWs in every sonic game. Why not give the fans what they want for a change? make the story more lighthearted, make good ol' eggy the main villain again, cut down the character list to just sonic, tails, the wisps, and eggman with his robots. and with that SEGA recommended a good set of writers who helped them in the past who weren't particularly working on any big projects ATM to re-write a new script for colors. The japanese script is in question though...

Now what if Generations Wii was still in development? What would've come out instead of Colors DS and Wii? my guess it could've been another Storybook series game and Rush 3. Rush 3 is obvious for Colors DS basically using the rush engine SR3 was probably canceled and changed to Colors DS and use their first script as the story for colors DS. and the storybook game, well is just an educated guess in all honesty. i remember hearing a rumor that another storybook game may get made around the time colors was being announced but i can't seem to find anything about it not here or retro (And most of my IM chat logs were wiped out in a HDD crash i lost all of my 2010 logs ) but it does seem like the thing to do either that or release another shoddy episode of Sonic 4 or a year of no main sonic which would be a shocker to us.

Thats all i have really, I've spent about 2 hours writing this book of a post, feel free to rip it apart if i got anything wrong which i probably did, after all its just a baseless theory but it does fit allot of holes to the connection between generations and colors.

Edited July 26, 2011 by goku262002

[Spooky Mulder]

Long theory.

Generations Wii almost certainly didn't make it very far into development. I'd bet that it was scrapped back in late 2008, probably early 2009. None of the stages in Colors resemble anything in Genetations, so I'd guess that the only thing they really had were some character models and concept art. I'd assume that no levels were actually built that were then transformed into new stages.

There are not many similarities between Colors and Generations beyond the badniks. The core concepts of the games are entirely different and Colors does not feel like a particularly rushed titled. What I'm guessing happened is that in 2008, in the very early stages of planning, they realized that it just wasn't working and that they would be better served to make a 3DS title. Since they already had some models, possibly an engine, and an idea of how levels would be designed, SEGA decided to continue the development as a separate title with original zones. I do agree with you that there are some similarities between the Pink Wisp and the Classic Superpowered Spindash.

I do think it's worth asking what we can learn about Generations from Colors, though. Colors had 6 acts in each zone, Generations appears to have one act per Sonic, with 5 missions, for a total of 6 levels for each Sonic in a zone. I wonder if this means that we can expect the missions in Generations to be set up similarly to Colors? In other words, they're not played on the same course as the main act, although some parts maybe reused and the acts are generally smaller.

[goku262002]

Generations Wii almost certainly didn't make it very far into development. I'd bet that it was scrapped back in late 2008, probably early 2009. None of the stages in Colors resemble anything in Genetations, so I'd guess that the only thing they really had were some character models and concept art. I'd assume that no levels were actually built that were then transformed into new stages.

There are not many similarities between Colors and Generations beyond the badniks. The core concepts of the games are entirely different and Colors does not feel like a particularly rushed title. What I'm guessing happened is that in 2008, in the very early stages of planning, they realized that it just wasn't working and that they would be better served to make a 3DS title. Since they already had some models, possibly an engine, and an idea of how levels would be designed, SEGA decided to continue the development as a separate title with original zones. I do agree with you that there are some similarities between the Pink Wisp and the Classic Superpowered Spindash.

I do think it's worth asking what we can learn about Generations from Colors, though. Colors had 6 acts in each zone, Generations appears to have one act per Sonic, with 5 missions, for a total of 6 levels for each Sonic in a zone. I wonder if this means that we can expect the missions in Generations to be set up similarly to Colors? In other words, they're not played on the same course as the main act, although some parts maybe reused and the acts are generally smaller.

Oh i don't think the levels were transformed or tweaked from generation proto-levels either. my guess is that they started with what few generations levels they had on the wii version knew it wasn't going to work out well and scrapped the levels all together. then when generations wii was transitioned into colors wii the levels were built from scratch instead of relying on anything from the proto-build as a level asset.

Can't say for sure how far generations wii got to in development before it was scrapped, but it was certainly enough to build colors off on so it had to be something substantial. I didn't think colors felt rushed either true if it had more time it could've worked on some issues that plagued it but it came out pretty damned great for the time it had and considering it started as a port.

Edited July 26, 2011 by goku262002

[Voyant]

Long theory

+ Rep this man, fucking outstanding read.

And yes the SpinDash totally feels like the Spike Wisp Dash.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Voyant

[Swiss]

I'd hazard a guess that they might have made a playable version of Green Hill (or another stage), tried to run it on the Wii hardware with not-so pleasing results, and then abandoned it. I'm not sure they would have just outright scrapped it without even seeing how it might look.

[ChikaBoing]

I don't think they would of gone a year empty tough with just Sonic 4, well maybe they would.

Also I remember hearing in a Podcast, a SEGA PR saying that Ideas of Colors were pitched before Black Knight and Unleashed were finished. It's right there on of the first questions

Edited July 26, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[InfinityAlex]

Sorry for the bump, but it was said an interview with a Sonic Team dev that the team started thinking about Generations just after Unleashed was completed, so if Colours was in dev before Unleashed was released, then I assume Unleashed was the base engine, and then Colours and Generations built ogg that.

[Big Panda]

They should do a Generations port for WiiU. It's got high definition graphics right?